Israeli Government Suspends Microsoft Contracts 597
MartinB writes "According to The Register, in a double blow to Redmond, the Israeli government has both suspended all government contracts with Microsoft until at least the end of 2004, and Israeli Antitrust Authority director general Dror Strum has ruled that Microsoft is subject to US court limitations. At issue in part is Microsoft's refusal to support Hebrew in Mac versions of Office."
Tunnels (Score:3, Funny)
More than just convenience (Score:5, Interesting)
Re:More than just convenience (Score:5, Informative)
Re:More than just convenience (Score:4, Interesting)
Disclaimer: I am a US citizen whose native languages are American English and Southern and I am happy that way.
Re:More than just convenience (Score:2)
It's not like MS Office is compatible with everyone except OpenOffice. And there is that whole convicted monopolist thing going against Microsoft, too.
As Microsoft is the current market leader, shouldn't they be endeavoring to improve compatability with other software their customers use? MS Office doesn't run on every platform, so compatibility is a r
Re:More than just convenience (Score:3, Informative)
Bad recommendation. As of today, you are asking this guy and all his Mac-using friends to DL and install Apple's X11 package and then DL and install OpenOffice.org's suite (which is a significant upgrade behind the x8
Re:Very interesting (Score:2)
Re:More than just convenience (Score:2)
While you guys keep killing each other over a bit of frickin dirt, most of the civilised world shakes it's head and wishes you would stop.
And don't point out "but Israel did *this*" or "the Arabs did *this*"... that's exactly my point: you're "Fighting fire with fire" will never stop so long as you keep providing fuel.
An eye for an eye will make the whole world blind. --Ghandi
Cheers
Stor
Re:More than just convenience (Score:2)
>>Ahh. I think he repeats himself.
I'm from Texas. I don't get what you're saying.
--Richard
Re:More than just convenience (Score:4, Interesting)
2) Not all text editing is mundane. Prayer books and the like are typically printed, and someone has to write such things. Furthermore, Hebrew never completely died out as a language of biblical scholarship.
3) Aramaic, Yiddish, Ladino: the major non-Hebrew vernacular languages used by Jews throughout history have traditionally been written from right to left and would necessitate the same bidirectional support that makes Hebrew so hard to support. It's only within the last hundred years or so that most Jews learned to read from left to right before learning to read from right to left.
4) Any rejection of Hebrew as a mundane language is post-biblical, and there doesn't seem to have been an especially strong rabbinical consensus on the matter, even if some rabbis held that opinion. Even independent of biblical scholarship, there was plenty of secular Hebrew literature in the middle ages, long after Hebrew ceased to be a vernacular, and long before modern Zionism revived vernacular Hebrew.
5) Yiddish was initially popular (at least among Askhenazim) because it was comprehensible (at least the spoken version) to the local gentile population. The vocabulary is mostly from Middle High German. Ladino is similarly derived from Spanish. Aramaic isn't an exclusively Jewish language at all, being originally a gentile vernacular (Syriac, an Aramaic dialect, still survives as a gentile vernacular in some villages), though it is used in some prayers, a few later parts of the Bible, and the Talmud, and it's still used in some rabbinical contexts. So non-Hebrew languages aren't necessarily embraced because they offer less sacred alternatives to Hebrew, nor are religious writings (even liturgy!) exclusively in Hebrew.
OpenOffice supports Hebrew (Score:4, Informative)
Re:OpenOffice supports Hebrew (Score:2)
Fonts (Score:2)
This is particularly important because the font handling in OS X is beautiful with native support of Hebrew making implementation issues for Microsoft trivial.
Partly (Score:3, Interesting)
Implementing internationalization for hebrew is trivial in Cocoa-based apps. It is significantly more difficult for Carbon based apps (which MS Office likely is). Microsoft also has a *serious* NIH syndrome when it comes to anything Apple-based and seems to prefer to implement their own versions of everything rather than use Apple's built-in libraries, so even if they could use Apple's internationalization (which I should add is absolutely gorgeous for Hebrew), I have a sneaking
Re:Partly (Score:2)
You'd better believe it! Anyone remember Office 6 for Mac? Ran slow as a turtle. Office 95 for Windows running under Virtual PC actually ran faster! Apparently MS built in a crappy Windows emulator for Office 6, just so they wouldn't have to use waste time replacing Office 95's DLL files).
Re:Partly (Score:2)
Software internationalization - is Hebrew hard? (Score:2)
I thought software internationalization
took some real time to set up initially,
then was easy for each additional language.
What are the technical issues involved?
Thanks, Joel
Re:Software internationalization - is Hebrew hard? (Score:2)
Re:Software internationalization - is Hebrew hard? (Score:5, Insightful)
Re:Software internationalization - is Hebrew hard? (Score:3, Insightful)
Never a problem (Score:2)
tcd004
Deuteronimicus 13:37 (Score:4, Funny)
Amen.
The real reason (Score:4, Funny)
Mod GrandParent UP! (Score:2)
Corroboration would be nice. (Score:2)
Thank you Israel (Score:2)
hmmm... (Score:2)
No compile Loc? (Score:2, Interesting)
I *know* that Office for Mac isn't exactly a well-behaved "normal" Mac app - heck, it isn't even a normal *Carbon* app. I did work at Microsoft as a Mac developer, so I am somewhat familar with the architecture of Office.
My suggestion is that they could look at the possibility of doing a no compile loc themselves, if they have Arabic support (very ironic!).
Both Arabic and Hebrew are hard to support
does OpenOffice support Hebrew and Arabic? (Score:2)
Slightly off-topic: I've recently tried OpenOffice the latest version and was very impressed how well it converted PowerPoint presentation. I really *hate* when some scientific presentations use PPT format (and give no other alternatives). It doesn't happen that often, but unfortunately it *does* happen. I wish scientific community were a bit more aware of the 'open vs clo
Off Topic Joke (Score:2)
One day I was working with an old timer, and he started to sing a tune as we watched one the Hatzhola guys race past us:
Oy vey!
Outta the way!
The Matzah box is on the way!
(mimicks siren)
Heeebreeew Hebreeeew!
He meant no harm buy it, he actually has a few friends in that particular servic
Don't get too excited (Score:4, Insightful)
There's also the issue of MS's political power through the US government. Israel gets quite a bit of money from the US and large portions of it are conditioned on the buying of American products with this money. So I wouldn't bet on Israel doing the Munich thing. At least not for a while.
This proves it! (Score:2)
2. Macs don't support Hebrews
THEREFORE G-D USES WINDOWS!
Re:This proves it! (Score:2)
2. Macs don't support Hebrews
1) they don't support Hebrew, not Hebrews
2) they do support Hebrew, just that the MacOS X versions of Office don't. In the article they talk about the OS supporting R to L scripts such as Hebrew (and Arabic and Urdu) since 10.2.
Maybe this is proof G-d uses OpenOffice? =)
Re:This proves it! (Score:2)
The Mac OS X versions of Office came out before MacOS 10.2, which is why there's no support in Office v.X for right-to-left languages.
Re:This proves it! (Score:2)
God obviously doesn't use Microsoft... He uses something that works better. I would think that would be obvious on a site like /. :P
Re:This proves it! (Score:2)
Now, if only he was into gaming. Of course, that would mean that the Bungie aquisition was the work of the devil...
Hidden anti-semitic agenda at MS? (Score:2)
1. Open MS Word.
2. Type the letters "NYC" (capitals) into a blank document.
3. Highlight the text NYC and change your font to Wingdings.
4. Voila!
Re:Hidden anti-semitic agenda at MS? (Score:2)
Too late, already brushed you off as a tin-foil hat conspiracy theorist.
So tell me, why is NYC the factor that makes that message meaningful? Okay, so NYC is a well known city. Also, NYC was attacked by religious extremists. So it must mean that it's too much of a coincidence that those 3 letters happen to put up tho
Re:Hidden anti-semitic agenda at MS? (Score:2)
Re:Hidden anti-semitic agenda at MS? (Score:2)
Yes, that's exactly what it is. Go type in some other names in Wingdings and tell me you don't find coincidental messages there. I mean seriously, what's the likelyhood that some programmer would think to put those symbols together when one spells NYC? What would possibly make him think "I know, I can put an anti-Jewish hate message in here. That'll express my
LONG SINCE DEBUNKED by Microsoft (Score:2)
Here is Microsoft's official statement on the issue:
THE DEADLY RESULT (Score:2)
then what that occurs, Bush will conclude that MS has weapons of mass destruction and the marines will storm Redmond, take over, topple the statue of Bill, then get attacked by guerilla MS supporters with rocket-propelled grenades.
Beware!!
This is not the place to insult Jews nor Arabs (Score:2)
As for Mac Office in Hebrew, well they should have to use Windows. I don't see Apple porting it's software to PC.
Re:This is not the place to insult Jews nor Arabs (Score:2)
Does this mean... (Score:2)
-1 Troll
CONSPIRACY (Score:2)
and what with that two towers thing, bit much for co-incidence hey?
Open Office Has Had Support For A While (Score:3, Insightful)
2002 Hebrew OpenOffice Files [iglu.org.il]
Open Office Hebrew HowTo [mail-archive.com]
Hebrew (Score:2)
Here's my chance to ask! (Score:3, Interesting)
Otherwise, awesome work. Assuming you install the Hebrew fonts, Hebrew support is "out of the box" in RH9, and it even has the Culmus fonts!
-Erwos
Re:No Apple Support (Score:2, Informative)
OpenOffice (Score:2)
And all the open sourcers rejoice!
Davak
Re:No Apple Support (Score:5, Informative)
Re:No Apple Support (Score:2)
Googling now it appears that Camino, Safari and Mozilla all support Hebrew...
Thanks for the clarification.
Davak
Re:No Apple Support (Score:2)
Re:No Apple Support (Score:2)
Re:No Apple Support (Score:2)
If it's a native OSX application, does OSX have much in the way of bidi support?
Re:No Apple Support (Score:3, Informative)
MOD PARENT DOWN (Score:3, Interesting)
Heck, they even demoed a Klingon version os MacOS X to really drive home how well they nailed international support in MacOS X.
The issue is Microsoft Office for Mac which is not an Apple product.
Re:I like Jews (Score:3, Funny)
Re:I like Jews (Score:2)
We can only hope that the world will one overcome over the normal state of affairs and outbreaks of peace will be more than just pleasant footnotes in history.
Re:THE ONLY GOOD ISRAELIS ARE DEAD ISRAELIS (Score:2)
Re:Not Microsoft's job (Score:2)
Re:Not Microsoft's job (Score:2)
Since they were found to be a monopoly in the US and guilty of illegal abuse of that power, then yes, they are, by definition, a monopoly in Israel.
Making a product that only supports the native language in their own operating system but not doing so in versions of the same product for other operating systems is an abuse of monopoly powers under Israeli law.
It's a pretty clear cut
Re:What about Unicode? (Score:2)
Re:Foolish on both sides (Score:2)
Re:Foolish on both sides (Score:3, Insightful)
It's sad when a country uses its laws to try to force a company to do certain things.
If you don't give us Hebrew, we'll declare you a monopoly! Well, that's bullshit. Laws are laws... either Microsoft is a monopoly by their laws or not. It should have nothing to do with microsoft's decision not to have certain software packages in Hebrew.
This really makes you wonder how Isreal looks at things...
Davak
Re:Foolish on both sides (Score:2)
Re:Foolish on both sides (Score:5, Insightful)
Well according to the article, a monopoly in Israel is...."any company with 50 per cent market share. Tying is illegal, as is unreasonably refusing a service. violations are considered criminal felonies".
Do I need to convince you that Microsoft has 50% market share on the desktop? I hope not. So they are a monopoly, and thus have additional obligations under Israeli law, like not "unreasonably refusing a service". Therefore the country CAN "use its laws to try to force a company to do certain things". It can force them to provide the service.
I'm not sure on the details of this, but by the article, it seems that Bill Gates is now a criminal in Israel.
Re:Foolish on both sides (Score:2)
AFAIUI, Israel has been unimpressed with MS for some time. The fact that their software doesn't support Hebrew merely brought it to the Antitrust Authoritys attention, causing them to cry "Enough!"
The last straw, if you like.
There's plenty of other examples in industry of some two-bit outfit employing unethical (and often illegal) tactics to maintain their position in the marketplace.
The difference is that most of them are smart enou
Not any different from before (Score:2)
In Israel, it's about using their position in one area (office software) to try and force another of their products (Windows) on consumers.
The only difference is how they're doing it. With IE, it was a matter of forcing you to have software and not letting you get rid of it without damaging a completely unrelated other piece of softwa
Re:Foolish on both sides (Score:2)
It was already declared a monopoly. There were no new laws written. It's just that since they refused to do MacOS X Office with proper BiDI (read: Hebrew) support, the citizens actually, *shudder*, had the government enforce the laws.
Re:Foolish on both sides (Score:2)
Like dealing honestly with shareholders? Using sound building materials and engineering practices? Promoting worker safety?
All of these are areas of government law trying to force companies to do things that they would sometimes prefer to avoid. I don't find my particular examples to be sad at all; on the contrary, I am generally grateful for them.
Not to say all such laws are good, of course. Many are not. But your stat
Re:Foolish on both sides (Score:2)
Re:Foolish on both sides (Score:2)
You come off sounding naive. That's politics.
Re:Foolish on both sides (Score:2)
Not for long if they keep this kind of crap up. They seem to be progressing quite well in the business of shooting themselves in the foot. First it was the occasional shot with the six-shooter. Then they went to a gatling gun. Now it's looking like they want to join the Nuclear Club.
Kinda makes you wonder: If a wedding party in Serbia can down a small plane with stray shots, what might a behemoth like MS be able to do?
Have you ever managed a software project? (Score:2)
Feature management is a very, very simple concept. You look at what percent of your customers are demanding this or that feature, and what bugs are affecting X percentage of your customers, and make your decisions about how to allocate development resources from there.
With Apple having a sub 5% market share worldwide, MS Office being on perhaps half of those, and perhaps less than 1% of the worldwide Apples requesting Hebrew support,
Re:Have you ever managed a software project? (Score:2, Insightful)
So Yeda offered to take the job upon themsleves. MS does not have to pay anything to add Hebrew. Why does MS still refuse? Could it be they like their Windows platform better than Mac-OS?
Re:Have you ever managed a software project? (Score:2)
Could it be that they don't want to allow 3rd party developers to modify their code and release something with the Microsoft logo on it?
Let me turn around the situation for you: Do you think Apple would allow 3rd party developers to add some features to OS X that a foreign government was requesting, and release that pr
Re:Have you ever managed a software project? (Score:2)
Office Mac has always been available in Israel. Office Mac has never had support for Hebrew. People know this, and buy it anyway: it's their choice. At what point exactly did native language support for a country become a necessity to sell a product there?
Re:Foolish on both sides (Score:2)
Re:or... (Score:5, Funny)
Re:I guess when you have suicide bombers . . . (Score:2, Insightful)
Way back before you were born, Egypt and everybody tried to wipe Isreal off the map, they stood up, and kicked ass, and ever since then it's been a pride issue on both sides. AFAICT you have the arabs on one side who won't be happy till Isreal is flat gone, and Jews who at worst are pretty damn callous -- but that's call
Re: (Score:2)
Re:I guess when you have suicide bombers . . . (Score:2)
win/win (Score:2)
Both the Israelis and the Palestinians make claim for the same land. For decades, both sides have made it obvious that neither will leave.
My question: why must one side lose and the other win? Why don't the Israelis and the Palestinians work together and create a secular democratic government? Jews and Arabs can work and live side by side. This is a win/win situation! Let economic freedom and inter-dependencies foster peace.
If the Israelis and the Palestinians are arguing JUST over land, then this is the
Too Bad (Score:2, Insightful)
Too bad that the Six [hopeforisrael.com] Day [us-israel.org] War [www.idf.il] didn't go the way you think it should have. Since when does regions conquered in wartime count as "stolen?" It was won, fair and square.
Too bad nobody realizes that there will never be peace in the Middle East until one side wins. Whom ar you rooting for?
Double Standard (Score:2, Flamebait)
I have never understood this double standard either. Back in WWII, Germany lost Silesia, Pomerania, and East Prussia to Poland, and the Russians wouldn't even entertain the notion of ending their occupation of the DDR and letting it reunify with the BRD until it was stipulated that Germany forever renounced any claims to that land. I fail to see how Judaea/Samaria, the Gaza Strip and Golan Heights should be a
Re:I guess when you have suicide bombers . . . (Score:2)
(Sorry to post off-topic but I had to pipe up.)
Re:The jews are just mad (Score:2)
Re:Yeah, Hebrew in Mac Office makes sense. (Score:2)
Re:Yeah, Hebrew in Mac Office makes sense. (Score:4, Insightful)
Re:Yeah, Hebrew in Mac Office makes sense. (Score:2)
Your ideas are right, but your numbers are meaningless. It could work out to be 1000 people or 100000000 people. Obviously if it was only 1000 people there isn't much commerical reason to support it.
Actually, they have a lot of reasons to care (Score:2)
Actually, considering the amount of cash MS earns off MS Office for the Macintosh, they actually have a lot of 'reasons' to 'give a crap' about Mac users. The Macintosh division is one of the most profitable.
I suppose you think apple was 'saved' by MS with that $150M stock purchase, too, don't you?(even though Apple had billions in the bank at the time.)
Re:Microsoft, don't take more crap (Score:2)
Wow, you think a business should retaliate against its customers because they refuse to deal with MS?
Let me know if you run any businesses so I can be sure not to buy from them, your customer service departments would be horrible!
Re:Microsoft, don't take more crap (Score:2)
Re:Microsoft, don't take more crap (Score:2)
Professional?? Microsoft? You haven't seen Steve Ballmer's "Monkey Dance" video yet, have you?
Re:the amazing kreskin predicts (Score:2)
Re:China (Score:2)
Welcome to slashdot.
You thought the anti-Chinese comments from yesterday from their successful launch were bad and racist? This is really the worst thread discussion I have seen on /. in a LONG time. Seriously. Maybe about 15% tops of the comments posted so far are related to the topic at hand.
If it was any other country with similar or worse human rights record, say Sudan, people would be rejoicing at their rejection of MSFT. But Israel bashing is
Re:Leftists' heads explode (Score:2)
Remember all the leftists that came out yesterday and today trying to prevent criticism of China and it's human rights record in the slashdot discussions? Don't be racist and complain about China, let's look at their aerospace accomplishments instead.
Notice that these kind of emails are notably absent now? Yeah. It's bad to criticize other countries if not about the current topic. Oh wait, unless it's Israel, those damn zionist racist apartheid colonial occupying thieves.
Re:C'mon Bill (Score:2)
It wouldn't be safe. Funny as hell, but very unsafe.