MacFixIt Details Mac OS X 10.2.8 Bugs 333
mneptok writes "Premier Macintosh troubleshooting site MacFixIt has just posted a detailed report on the bugs and broken features in Apple's latest point release for MacOSX. As reported previously on Slashdot, the 10.2.8 update was released and pulled within hours earlier this week. Many users upgraded before the update was pulled and are being bitten, and MacFixIt has run down the behavior you can attribute to Apple's goof."
Most upgraders have no problems (Score:3, Interesting)
Re:Most upgraders have no problems (Score:2, Interesting)
Exactly. I upgraded to 10.2.8 almost immediately after it was released and have yet to have any problems on the machines I have installed it on. It is too bad that a fairly large amount of people (although by far still the minority) are having problems. Hopefully this will lead to better QA in Apple's part in the future.
No problems here, either. (Score:2)
In fact, 10.2.8 fixed my most annoying problem with 10.2.6, which was that my mouse kept hanging every hour or so. I was able to fix it every time by unplugging it for a few seconds, but it's so much better not to have to bother.
It's funny how many problems people are willing to attribute to 10.2.8. The "Dual Display configuration" issue, for instance, has been present since 10.1. "Linksys Router needs new firmware" sounds completely unrelated to me; Linksys routers are crap anyway.
Re:No problems here, either. (Score:2)
As for the Linksys thing... how screwed up does a system have to be to break a router? And who's fault is it anyway?
Re:Most upgraders have no problems (Score:5, Insightful)
So what should they do? Shut-up about it?
Come on people, apple is a cool company but you don't have to make excuses for their mistakes.
Re:Most upgraders have no problems (Score:3, Insightful)
Re:Most upgraders have no problems (Score:3)
Not true (Score:2, Interesting)
Obviously you don't own an Xserve, a PowerMac G4, or use any Bluetooth devices, for starters. All those pesky iMac/eMac users(hint: educational market) don't matter either, eh?
I use Bluetooth to sync the Address Book to the phone, and as a result of 10.2.8, Bluetooth no longer works properly. Many users with bluetooth keyboards+mice report similar problems with those devices.
It doesn't matter how "mi
Re:Not true (Score:2)
Well, I own a PowerMac G4 (dual 500MHz). No problems with the 10.2.8 update that I know of--maybe I lost 10BaseT support, but my LAN's been 100BaseTX for a few years now.
Re:Most upgraders have no problems (Score:3, Insightful)
I felt good about myself too after upgrading my 2002 Quicksilver with no problems, and then soon moved to update my 800mhz iBook. After rebooting my battery time was cut in half. If I boot into OS 9, power levels are at their usual (4 hours on a full charge).
My friend has a 867mhz Powerbook and the same exact thing is happening. The issue is widely reported on the Apple discussion boards too.
Fact is
Re:Most upgraders have no problems (Score:3)
Heh, even 1% is too much IMHO. Apple isn't in the PC market with 1000's of different set-ups. That's why it bugs me more when my iBook stuffs up. I have learnt to expect it from my wintel machines, but I don't expect it from Apple.
Re:Most upgraders have no problems (Score:3, Insightful)
Isn't one of Apple's selling points that since they control both the OS and the hardware, there isn't supposed to be this kind of problem?
Re:Most upgraders have no problems (Score:2)
Ah! You mean Apple users!
Re:Most upgraders have no problems (Score:2)
Re:Most upgraders have no problems (Score:2, Interesting)
First of all, it helps keep idiots who don't need to be in there out. This, I imagine, is especially important to Apple. If you have a good torx screwdriver set, chances are much better that you're not a doof.
Second, the screws have more surface area, and can't slip unless your driver is bad. This means they can make the heads much much thinner--something that is obviously very desireable on a laptop, where space is very limited.
Remember, Phillips screws were develop
Re:Most upgraders have no problems (Score:2)
Re:Most upgraders have no problems (Score:2)
Found the problem... (Score:5, Funny)
Ahh... seems I installed XP Service Pack 1 on my iMac by mistake. My bad.
Re:Found the problem... (Score:2)
Re:Found the problem... (Score:2)
Funny, I still see them on a regular basis on my development machines (mummble crappy USB Drivers mummble). The only differnce is now they go away and reboot the system before you've had a chance to read what they say...
*Sigh* (Score:2)
Click "Properties"
Go the the "Advanced" tab
Click "Settings" under "Startup and Recovery"
Uncheck "Automatically restart" under "System failure"
Now when you get your next BSOD do the following:
* Note down the error including any parameters
* Run the error through Microsoft's Knowledge Base [microsoft.com]
* Run through the articles to see if its a known condition
BSODs are normally reserved for catastrophic failures (like the boot partition being damaged or broken RAM returning random information
Re:*Sigh* (Score:2)
Been done. Found shortly after the problem began.
BSODs are normally reserved for catastrophic failures (like the boot partition being damaged or broken RAM returning random information) and usually occur for good reason.
Catastrophic Failure = I unplugged a specific USB GPS device. Happens consistently accross a variety of machines. Lousy drivers.
Re:*Sigh* (Score:2)
Damn, who would have thought canceling a CD burn was a catastrophic failure.
BSODS may be much less common... (Score:2)
Re:BSODS may be much less common... (Score:2)
I haven't seen that many issues with Windows Updates. Updating 20+ customer computers at an ISP, I don't think I had but 2-3 problems and those were minor (e.g. non-necessary stuff like installing updated drivers) and one customer who had issues
I've had none of these problems, but had others (Score:3, Informative)
Re:I've had none of these problems, but had others (Score:2, Funny)
Re:I've had none of these problems, but had others (Score:2)
The short answer is: A bad 10 base T ethernet driver.
Anything else you notice is almost certainly people noticing problems that have existed since 10.2.6 (which *was* a terrible release, but didn't break anything as huge as 10 base T ethernet so wasn't recalled).
Although I might be willing to believe the iMac boot problems, too.
Wait a minute, dammit (Score:5, Funny)
Um, actually, if everyone waits, there'll be nobody to play the guinea pigs. Forget what I just said, unenlightened masses -- download immediately, for my benefit!
Re:Wait a minute, dammit (Score:2)
Interestingly enough, the 10.2.8 update did not break anything on my 1996 Beige G3/300. The only issue I encountered was a rearrangement of which monitor was identified as my primary monitor.
This did not particularly surprise me because I happen to know the Beige G3 considers the internal Rage II chip as the primary display adapter. Booting into single-user mode will dump me onto the Rage II monitor; the little hash progress circ
Re:Wait a minute, dammit (Score:2)
Anyone know what's a dangerous temp for a proc to be running at?
Re:Wait a minute, dammit (Score:2)
You sir, are a Troll
Ha! (Score:2)
[lostbrain.com]
tcd004
temp fix (Score:5, Informative)
Re:temp fix (Score:5, Insightful)
Apple worm infestation. Did this "utility" get
audited? By whom?
Re:temp fix (Score:3, Informative)
Re:temp fix (Score:2)
Works fine here (Score:5, Informative)
Re:Works fine here (Score:3, Interesting)
I usually had to reboot my 'book because of a major slowdown in the genie effect and the dock, as it over time degraded, and was more and more not-so-smooth, and a reboot fixed that for a few more days.
Even in the light of this bug ridden update, I am looking forwa
five to one (Score:4, Interesting)
Re:five to one (Score:2)
jf
Another reason to end developer seeds? (Score:5, Interesting)
Of course the argument was that it was a necessary evil to put up with this stuff because the feedback that Apple received from developers (both in quality and quantity) helped catch glaring bugs.
10.2.8 news has been rampant through the rumor channels for a LONG time. Now that it's finally out, there are quick glaring holes that cause the recall of the update and lots of bad publicity for Apple.
I certainly hope Apple doesn't get paranoid about the release of new software to paying seed developers, but this is just another reason that the scale may be tipping toward the paranoid, closed-testing route than the limited open-seeding way it is today.
Re:Another reason to end developer seeds? (Score:5, Interesting)
Since it turned out to have all these issues and got recalled, it looks like this guy was correct.
Assuming this is true, why did Apple go ahead and push 10.2.8 out the door when their own employees knew it wasn't ready yet?
My theory is, it contained security fixes such as patches for SSH - and Apple felt they couldn't risk waiting any longer to roll it out, and have a Microsoft-like fiasco develop where OS X got exploited before fixes were available.
This probably begs the question: Should security patches/fixes always be released by themselves, instead of rolled into general system updates? It may not be a bad idea.
As far as Apple getting paranoid about giving out pre-release software to developers, I think that's mainly due to all the Safari builds that leaked onto Usenet. Apple hates not being able to surprise people with cool new features, and that element of surprise keeps getting stolen out from under them when code gets leaked. (We all knew about Safari adding tabbed browsing long before Apple announced it, for example.)
Still, you have to balance those concerns with the risk of not having enough people testing/pre-screening your code for serious problems. In the end, writing a solid, bug-free product is the most important goal.
Re:Another reason to end developer seeds? (Score:2, Insightful)
I mostly agree with you. I would like see a separate patch for a security problem rapidly. And for the feature enhancement, updates should first appear as release candidates, so that brave users can try them on a non-production Mac but at their own risk.
I do not see why Apple wants to put all patches int
Re:Another reason to end developer seeds? (Score:2)
Yes. Absolutely. I'd be even more upset about this if my Mac was on a public IP. Apple got just as much notice as other OS vendors, but there were TWO security holes announced in OpenSSH recently, and Apple STILL hasn't released a patch (the second one shouldn't affect OSX, but the first one does).
Apple really needs to get on the ball with this sort of thing,
Re:Another reason to end developer seeds? (Score:3, Insightful)
I'm confused. Wouldn't this incident tip the scale in the opposite direction? Perhaps the problem would have been caught sooner if more people had looked at seed builds before the official release. How would not releasing builds to developers have help
Apple's patch strategy needs work (Score:5, Interesting)
However, Apple failed to provide us one. Instead, they rolled the patch into the 10.2.8 release, thus exposing anyone who upgraded solely for the security fix to additional instability caused by changes to other OS components.
I feel sorry for those server administrators who were unable to upgrade to 10.2.8 because it means the server is still vulnerable to the ssh security hole.
Re:Apple's patch strategy needs work (Score:5, Informative)
Re:Apple's patch strategy needs work (Score:2)
Re:Apple's patch strategy needs work (Score:2)
Re:Apple's patch strategy needs work (Score:2)
However, Apple failed to provide us one. Instead, they rolled the patch into the 10.2.8 release, thus exposing anyone who upgraded solely for the security fix to additional instability caused by changes to other OS components.
I feel sorry for those server administrators who were unable to upgrade to 10.2.8 because it means the server is still vu
struggle (Score:2)
In case of Slashdotting here is the text ... (Score:3, Funny)
1) Able to use a three button (or more) mouse. Requires external hardware.
2) People hate seeing that spinning wheel while your Mac just sits there and does shit all. It has been changed to a happy smiley face instead.
3) All Terminal app crashes have been eliminated by removing the Terminal all together.
4) People are always moaning about the chane in file permissions after an update. To fix this problem all permissions will now be set to World readable and writeable.
5) Because we supply an ancient version of the PHP module with Apache and have been laughed at by Slashdot vistors, we will now install the Developer Tools by default. Now if you don't like it - compile it yourself!
Unstable branch (Score:2, Interesting)
Please enlighten me.
porp
Re:Unstable branch (Score:2)
Apple obviously can't be showcasing projects they're cooking up that aren't announced yet.
Re:Unstable branch (Score:2)
Broke network driver (Score:3, Insightful)
On another not, for the first time I can remember, I did not apply this update to my "Sawtooth" G4 and so did not have a chance to experience this annoying problem. The reason for this was that I really couldn't be bothered since I've been playing a 10.3 beta and it runs beautifully. Seems its less buggy than the release version of 10.2.8!
Pretty Sad. (Score:2, Insightful)
Missing resolution (Score:2, Funny)
Yup, I'm having this problem. In fact, my entire Apple Cinema Display is missing, i.e. completely gone! Oh wait, that's because I don't even own an Apple Cinema Display. Never-mind, my bad.
That exact same thing happened to me (Score:2)
My iPod (which I can afford) however remains completely unaffected. Go Figure!
What's with the function keys and OS X updates? (Score:3, Interesting)
Except the function keys. For some reason, Apple insists on using the function keys for things like changing sound volume and turning up and down the screen brightness. I prefer being able to remap the function keys for applications, especially Emacs. The only way I know of to reclaim the function keys is to reboot into OS 9, toggle the boxes in the keyboard control panel, and then reboot into OS X. However, every software update of OS X forces me to repeat this process. That means three reboots on average for each software update (four this time, due to the problem above), which is pretty irritating given how slow my PowerBook starts up.
What I find curious is that although this is a longstanding issue, relatively few Mac users complain about it. I suppose it has something to do with most Mac users being accustomed to a mouse-centric experience rather than a keyboard-centric user interface. Or do people really need to change their screen brightness that often?
Re:What's with the function keys and OS X updates? (Score:2)
Re:What's with the function keys and OS X updates? (Score:2)
Yes, that's really weird. If Apple wanted a truely consistent user experience, why even label them as function keys at all? Just do like a PC-style "multimedia keyboard" once and for all.
Anyhow, have you tried Doublecommand [sourceforge.net]? You should be able to adjust those kinds of options without rebooting.
why complaints are few (Score:2, Funny)
But think about it--those who were affected got their ethernet knocked out. They *can't* post their complaints to slashdot.
10.2.7 was G5 only. (Score:2)
Not true... (Score:2)
Re:Not true... (Score:3, Informative)
Re:Not true... (Score:2)
Thanks for the confirmation. :) (Score:2)
I read at one point that 10.2.8 was "not recommended" for G5 systems, but it wasn't clear to me whether it would install at all.
If someone wants to send me a G5, I'll be happy to test it though!
Of course, it's not recommended for anyone now... :)
Re:Mac OS X not up to snuff (Score:4, Informative)
Re:Mac OS X not up to snuff (Score:2)
You also might look at Workspaces [versiontracker.com], which is the nicest virtual desktop system I've used on any Unix.
Yes, it's shareware, and yes, you still miss a few things, like sending individual windows between screens, but this system [216.92.218.246] is just so slick, especially with multiple monitors.
Re:Mac OS X not up to snuff (Score:2)
Boy, I'm sure glad you do your research before posting:
http://simplest-shop.com/Macintosh--1-229660-so f tw are.html
Let's see
X.1 Sept 28, 2001
X.2 Aug 23, 2002
That puts 11 months between those two releases
And assuming the earliest release of X.3 in sept, that would be 13 months from the last release. And 16 months in december.
By contrast:
Windows 2000 , Feb 17 2000
Windows ME released Sept 14 2000
That would be 7 months
Windows XP Oct 25 2001
Th
Re:Mac OS X not up to snuff (Score:2, Funny)
Re:Mac OS X not up to snuff (Score:5, Insightful)
I personally find Mac OS X better for getting "real work done" - when I've got a lot of windows open, lots of graphics, lots of text, I find that Aqua buckles a LOT less than X. The X11 architecture is seeming more and more ancient -- sure, multiple desktops can be nice, and being able to run programs across a network was an idea WAY ahead of it's time - but X is starting to show it's age.
I thikn that's the root reason that you can't run Aqua ('regular OS X') apps through X - it'd mean basically doing a total screen redraw from Aqua (PDF-based) to X - and that would be S-L-O-W. And it's not very reasonable to ask for programs that were never designed to work with X11 to magically work through X11 - there are PC X11 servers, you don't expect to be able to run WinXP apps through them. What OS X _can_ do is (using Apple's relatively good X11 server) run pretty much any X11 app under the sun - a number of apps (including the Gimp and (IIRC) Open Office) have been ported to the OSX-X11 combo - while still using Aqua for all your other apps. And for most of us, Aqua is fast enough, efficient, and 'lickable'.
But if you want a pure Unix-like set up (X11, boot into console, etc.), then OS X isn't for you - it's got the power 'under the hood' but you clearly want the engine exposed. Fine. You're right, the hardware is amazing.
Tim
Re:Mac OS X not up to snuff (Score:2)
I think I agree with the original poster - X is a great system for doing real work. I don't use it for that at the moment - but only because I absolutely have to have a few programs that only run on Mac or Windows.
Re:Mac OS X not up to snuff (Score:2)
Re:Mac OS X not up to snuff (Score:2)
Exactly what do the more limited X window managers provide that XP or OSX don't (or Gnome or KDE don't for that matter)? Not to be a pain, but I just can't think of much and I
Re:Mac OS X not up to snuff (Score:2)
Congratulations. Wish I could do that. My TiBook has to stay on OSX though, there are some programs I have to have that won't run otherwise, and I have to keep around 10gig free hd space for video conversion runs so I can't even dual boot.
Re:WHAT??? (Score:4, Insightful)
I see a lot of comments from people like "it worked with my system" or "it's only a few people that are affected" or "most of the affected systems had third-party software/hardware installed, they should have known better". It's all so idiotic.
It's really not the number of affected systems that keeps me from installing my own update, it's the severity of the symptoms. Apple keeps releasing these updates that are supposed to fix things, and then it's like, "Oh by the way, there's a small chance that this will hose your system so bad that you won't be able to boot up anymore or repair your system with the CD repair tools or uninstall the update, and the only way to repair your system will be to reinstall the OS from scratch from the CD . You won't even be able to boot into "Safe Mode". But that's ok, right, because you all have spare huge-ass hard drives that you can use solely for backing up your entire main drive, and you'll do that before you try this update, just in case something goes wrong." I've literally seen dozens of people on the Apple discussion forums saying exactly that, "Just back up your whole drive with Carbon Copy Cloner or something before you do any sort of update, and everything will be cool. No problem."
Huh? How is that acceptable? No way to uninstall if you have problems? Systems hosed so bad they can't be repaired by any known method short of a complete reinstall?
Microsoft is bad enough, but I don't recall a lot of their updates causing people to need to reformat and reinstall from scratch once a month. To this day I can't understand why Apple isn't getting ripped to shreds for these terrible update problems. Is it just because only a few people are affected and everyone else just doesn't care? If you don't believe me that the problems were that bad, you just need to spend some time checking out the discussion forums on Apple's website, and probably other Apple discussion websites, where they talk about the 10.2.1-10.2.8+ updates.
Oh, and I see you've gotten a "Troll" rating already. Congratulations. That's what you get when you buck the tide, buddy. We'll show you. Maybe this post will bring in my first "Troll" rating. Keep your fingers crossed.
Re:WHAT??? (Score:2, Flamebait)
dude it was one update the had a negative impact on SOME users (including me) and they pulled it. no its not a repeated thing. and they pulled it in hours did ms ever do that with a service pack? nope and its not once a month.
Re:WHAT??? (Score:2)
Thanks for your wonderful comment, but I must disagree. I've read about a lot of people having severe problems with practically every update since 10.2.1. It's just that the relative number of people with severe problems was a lot higher with 10.2.4 (or was it .5) which is probably what you are referring to. I mean, come on, we're looking at 10.2.8 here which was so bad that they (once again!) pu
Re:WHAT??? (Score:2)
did ms ever do that with a service pack
Yes (well, I've managed to get them to pull a Windows 2000 QuickFix from windows update in 24 hours via some urgent emails pointing out they'd packaged NT4 DLLs inside it.
NT 4.0's SP6 was quickly updated to SP6a when it was discovered it interferred with Notes.
Re:WHAT??? (Score:2)
Some people don't understand the difference between an honest, strongly held, but unpopular opinion and a troll/flamebait.
Well, often the best way to judge the nature of a man is to judge the nature of his enemies.
And sometimes a troll modding means you're doing something right, so don't sweat it.
We try to deal with the issue as best we can when metamoderating.
KFG
Say What? (Score:2)
Son, you aren't doing it right if you haven't had some butt finger mod you "Troll" for daring to say something that doesn't fall in with the official party line.
I'm a Mac fanatic but the people who gloss over the issues are one step beyond and not doing the platform any favors with their zealotry.
Great system, not perfect and in fact far from it. Better than Windows? Yeah, I think so but then what isn't? I've got about ten Macs at the house and
Just like Spider-man (Score:2)
Oh yeah that's right, because he's an EVIL SUPERVILLAN BENT ON CONTROLLING THE WORLD, while Spider-man is just a guy with a little power trying to do something cool and make a living at it. So hmm, I guess that's a perfectly normal and appropriate response.
Re:WHAT??? (Score:2)
What does this mean? There's a patch to uninstall the "updates"? Do the updates backup the files they overwrite so you can go back to where you were, cleanly? Where can I get this patch, I haven't heard of it before.
There are a few very loud people with problems.
And those people and the severity of their problems were unimportant?
Actually, MS patches DO cause problems, as equally minor, but there is no fix other than reformatting.
Last I checked you could "back o
Re:WHAT??? (Score:2)
Re:not much issue for G4 laptops (Score:2)
The only odd problem I've really had is Lux [sillysoft.net] crashing on me for no reason.
Re:not much issue for G4 laptops (Score:2)
Re:not much issue for G4 laptops (Score:2)
* Lost cursor on second display
* Scrolling windows (Mail.app, for example) would fail to update the full area that scrolled. I had to highlight or minimize/maximize to read my email.
* I had weird problems moving windows around, too:
http://bsdboy.west.spy.net/~dustin/WTF.png
Re:Stupid Patch! (Score:2, Funny)
Re:Stupid Patch! (Score:5, Funny)
Re:Stupid Patch! (Score:2)
Gotta be careful there, seeing how the page had to describe to Macheads commands like cd and mv (don't forget the space! Press enter afterwards!), some of them might fall for your trick (well if they don't forget to press Enter).. ah poor Mac-folks, life without a command prompt must have been a bliss.
Re:I hate Apple right now... (Score:2)
Calm down, you foaming at the mouth fucking fanatic.
It was covered under a warranty; I never said it wasn't. The fact that I had to lug a 60 lb computer with no handles through my local mall to the apple store and the fact that they kept it for almost a week when they were fixing it is bad enough.
Re:I hate Apple right now... (Score:2)
The threading support in the latest version (the one for OS 10.3) is very poor. You can't easily see how a group of messages relate to one another like you can in Ximian evolution or mutt. It simply groups messages by subject, it doesn't create nested trees of
Re:I hate Apple right now... (Score:2)
You can turn off volume checking in the preferences. This is designed so that iTunes can equalize (somewhat) the playback volume across your MP3s, because I'm sure you've noticed not all CDs are recorded at the same volume.
Second, you know you can actualy play your library, and you don't need to create a play list right?
Re:I hate Apple right now... (Score:4, Informative)
if you got the same issue 9 times in a row that doesnt seem to happen to anyone else.... i would evaluate what you do with your machine. kind of like how 90% of the people with hinge problems on their Ti-Books were dropping them hinge side down in their bags. i feel your pain, but something seems amiss that's not 100% Apple's issue since those 9 ibooks would span a few revisions. i know one guy that had one of the first ice-book ibooks in the Philly area and his worked 100% till he stepped on the screen recently. i know people that have had them in their bags while riding a bike and been hit by a car and they still work 100%. i know peopel that have dropped them out of bed or rolled onto them a few times in the night. they are a pretty well built machine.
Re:Holy Cow - THANKS MODS (Score:2)
This goes to the other guy who also thought I was complaining. I found the ad quite amusing. Nobody knows what I'm talking about anyway, so
Re:Holy Cow - THANKS MODS (Score:2)
Disclaimer for any humor-disabled mods: This was a joke. We now return you to your regularly scheduled modding.
Re:Um... (Score:2)
- Original clamshell iBook (G3/500)
- Year 2000 PowerBook (Firewire)
- 2x867MHz G4 MDD PowerMac
- 2x1.42GHz G4 MDD PowerMac
Of course, all of these machines are running either wirelessly or on a 100BaseT switched network, so the main network problems wouldn't affect them.
The only thing I've noticed that's different in 10.2.8 is that the keyboard/mouse preference panes have been combined into one preference pane.