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Drooling Over VA Tech's 1100-Node G5 Cluster 441

Mr. Slurpee writes "Virginia Tech's 1100-node dual 2 GHz Apple G5 Terascale Cluster is getting racked up and ready to roar. If you're a penniless geek like me, at least there's some tech pr0n for us to drool over. There's 1100 of them ... think they could part with one?" Update: 09/22 02:55 GMT by T : Matt submits a link to this full mirror of the photos, writing "The page owner's comment on the original mirror being taken down due to bandwidth? 'Bring it on!'"
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Drooling Over VA Tech's 1100-Node G5 Cluster

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  • by Anonymous Coward on Saturday September 20, 2003 @11:48PM (#7015595)
    Imagine a beowulf clu...oh, wait.
  • by Anonymous Coward on Saturday September 20, 2003 @11:50PM (#7015597)
    here [cmu.edu].
  • by jtnishi ( 610495 ) on Saturday September 20, 2003 @11:50PM (#7015598) Homepage
    Oh God.

    Imagining each one of those came with just a little bit of Steve Job's Reality Distortion Field, someone from NASA might want to head over there and make sure that some kind of tear in space/time doesn't occur right there. With that many G5s, we don't know what level of destruction could happen.
  • space.. (Score:4, Insightful)

    by kidlinux ( 2550 ) <duke@sp[ ]box.net ['ace' in gap]> on Saturday September 20, 2003 @11:52PM (#7015610) Homepage
    Using full sized cases seems like a rather inefficient use of space to me. But I guess those cases are all fairly full - the heatsinks in those things are enormous. Wish PCs had heatsinks like that, then maybe mine wouldn't be so noisy.
    • Re:space.. (Score:4, Funny)

      by entartete ( 659190 ) on Saturday September 20, 2003 @11:59PM (#7015655)
      the full sized cases will provide greater resistance to all the spoooge that will be sprayed over them by spontaneous orgasms of the hordes of apple fans comeing to worship before the mother of all apples.
    • spacetime (Score:3, Interesting)

      by The Monster ( 227884 )

      Using full sized cases seems like a rather inefficient use of space to me.

      You aren't looking at the long-term situation. A year or two from now, they'll upgrade to a cluster of G6's or whatever, and have a 1100 cases that just need keyboards, monitors, and mice (many recycled from older machines) attached to them to work as high-powered workstations throughout the university. You can't just stick a 1U on someone's desk.

      This gives them 1101 good computers - a kickass cluster now, and 1100 workstation

  • by Xpilot ( 117961 ) on Saturday September 20, 2003 @11:52PM (#7015614) Homepage
    This presentation contains content that your browser may not be able to show properly. This presentation was optimized for more recent versions of Microsoft Internet Explorer.

    Why make a website "optimized for IE", when the content of the said website is of interest to people who are probably not running IE or Windows?
    • The simply created a PowerPoint presentation and converted it to "HTML". Actually, it doesn't even appear to *try* to be HTML - I have no idea what this crap is. Through their laziness, those morons managed to make their very simple page inacessible to any browser but Internet Explorer (well, neither Opera 7 nor Moz 1.4 render the page, from what I can see, maybe it works in KHTML-based browsers, but I doubt it). Oh well, Search Engines won't be able to index the content, and that'll be their loss

    • Uh, I'm running IE 5 on my Mac... In fact, the last G4 I set up had IE 5 preinstalled on it.
      • You've conveniently glossed over the fact that IE for the Mac is
        a) No longer supported, and
        b) An ugly, slow, and feature-devoid rectangle, resuling in
        c) Most OS X users to delete it entirely out of disgust.

        Seriously, Safari is a nice, clean, fast browser, imho, and certainly renders most websites as well as or better than Idiot Exploiter, excepting only those sites which were deliberately written with broken code.
  • These photos are from the Virginia Tech Supercomputer Cluster composed of 1100 PowerMac G5's. These photos were originally hosted at this link but access was removed, presumably due to excessive bandwidth usage.

    Hmm. Something tells me that they should hook up a T3 line to each one of those G5's :P Let's see how much power they really have!
  • How long... (Score:3, Insightful)

    by FooGoo ( 98336 ) on Saturday September 20, 2003 @11:52PM (#7015618)
    do you think it would take this nifty cluster to correct the barrel distorition from their wide angle lesnse?

    FooGoo
  • Where is mine? (Score:4, Insightful)

    by TiMac ( 621390 ) on Saturday September 20, 2003 @11:53PM (#7015620)
    So now the question is...

    They've got 1100+...where's mine? I ordered a Dual 2.0 GHz G5 in July....still no sight. Supposed to ship on Tuesday....but online time will tell....

    Sigh...Maybe they'll loan me one if mine gets delayed!

    PS--anyone got the rest of these pics? There were a TON of them...Mirror? COMPLETE?

  • insert all your g5 are belong to us joke here
  • Hm. (Score:5, Interesting)

    by ixt ( 463433 ) on Saturday September 20, 2003 @11:55PM (#7015633)
    What I really would like to know is how they install and configure all those machines. Their method of doing that will be very useful for even the (relatively) smaller networks that don't necessarily have to be clusters.

    For example, I've yet to figure out a way to effectively get a computer lab with 30 eMacs installed and configured the same way. DHCP/Netboot is slow because we only have 100mbit switches. Split CD images are slow, and Jaguar doesn't yet have free software that does that yet (besides the dd of course). I'm not sure how to keep them all updated either.

    I really hope they describe how they maintain the operating system on them.
    • NetBoot is slow? (Score:5, Insightful)

      by 2nd Post! ( 213333 ) <{ten.llebcap} {ta} {raebdnug}> on Sunday September 21, 2003 @12:06AM (#7015681) Homepage
      I haven't actually tried it yet since I don't have access to enough Macs, but I imagine it's something you would start and let happen overnight... I mean, that's more or less how Apple does it in their own stores, wipe and restore overnight, I think. Or at least after the store closes and before the next opening day.
      • it is a evil, evil program... but our PC labs(all computers that are for student user, that is) have a program called deep freeze... Basicly, it gives 1. a virtual drive, to which you save your documents, and 2. any files that are edited, on reboot, are restored( thus the need for a virual drive that lets you save to it)...

        you can 'thaw' the computer, and change settings, and then reboot(freeze it) and the settings will be saved, but if some punk kids tries to delete a system file or changes the background
    • Re:Hm. (Score:4, Informative)

      by tecnobabble ( 611104 ) on Sunday September 21, 2003 @12:45AM (#7015830)
      Actually, I just ran into this problem with a new eMac lab at my school, we set it up in about 4 hours. :)

      Easy way to do it.

      1. Set up 1 machine how you want it.
      2. Get a bunch of firewire cables.
      3. Hook the eMac's together using the cables. (If you can't reach with the cables, get some portable firewire drives, iPods work well with this too.)
      4. Use Carbon Copy Cloner 2.2 (http://www.bombich.com/software/ccc.html) and move down the line of machines until they're all the same.
      5. Go in and change HD, Network, etc names.
      6. Smile because you just did something in 4-5 hours that it would take Windows users a week to do.

      If you have questions, feel free to email (sethmath @ mac.com) me about it. I can walk you through if necessary.
      • Re:Hm. (Score:3, Informative)

        by gerardrj ( 207690 ) *
        I'm as big a Mac fan as anyone, but this would not take a Windows user a week. There are several apps that will mirror and restore HDs in a matter of minutes. Over a 10bT network I used to use Ghost to generate over 25 Win95 installs an hour, just by myself.
        1. Boot to floppy
        2. Press menu option for image to install
        3. Boot machine
        4. Change HD, Network, etc names

        I don't know what the average user/site would encounter with the WinXP authorization, but I know larger sites get blanket installation without the c
    • Re:Hm. (Score:2, Informative)

      by orange_6 ( 320700 )
      I run a lab with around 50 G4s (and 50 PCs) and we've had this problem as well. The PCs are easy since they're all identical and can be remotely reimaged in about 3 hours (on a slow lan), but the Macs are a difficult breed b/c of our network, which is all Novell based. Our Mac IT guy is at our lab nearly 3x a week trying some new configuration and the one he's using now is just to have a FireWire external with everything loaded. Not as simple and efficient as a network rebuild, but it works.
      • Re:Hm. (Score:5, Informative)

        by Benley ( 102665 ) on Sunday September 21, 2003 @01:37AM (#7016037) Journal

        I run a lab with about 50 macs (assorted models, from 350mhz iMacs through 800mhz eMacs, and a few 1ghz G4's) - I spent a good bit of time on a solution, and it's really not as hard as this thread makes it sound.

        First, I build one system and set it up *Exactly* the way I want all the others to be. I have some run-once script voodoo to set the IP address of each machine based on its Mac address, and to munge some ByHost user preferences for the built-in guest account. Then, I use Carbon Copy Cloner">Carbon Copy Cloner [bombich.com] to create an image of that machine's hard drive.

        Once I have an image of the machine, I use NetRestore [bombich.com]NetRestore (by the same guy as CCC) to create a netboot image that will automatically install the master machine's HD image onto each client.

        I am fortunate to have a MacOS X Server machine on which to run the NetBoot server - which is independent of the subnet's master DHCP server, I might add - but it is possible to netboot macs from other Unix machines with a bit of patching to dhcpd.

        Anyhow, all in all I don't find it any more difficult to netinstall Macs than it is to do the same for Windows machines. Building the master clone image is time consuming and annoying, but it always will be for any platform.

        Feel free to email me if you are interested in my machine setup voodoo script. I had to borrow some binaries from OS X Server in order to make it work. It's slowly turning into something useful as I add more functionality to it.

    • Configure one machine, use that one to produce a dupe, repeat with all currently configured machines as parents until out of unconfigured machines.

      Still a huge job.
  • by idontgno ( 624372 ) on Saturday September 20, 2003 @11:56PM (#7015637) Journal
    I was doing some window shopping in a large entertainment electronics/computers store tonight, and started playing with a G5 uniprocessor. The salesdrone drifted over and started his sales rap, and I busted in to ask about the dual-processor G5s.

    He had to admit they didn't have any in stock, and weren't expecting to get any from Apple for some time.

    I guess I know where the dual-G5 systems are all going. Ah, well, it's all for a good cause. I hope.

    • by entartete ( 659190 ) on Sunday September 21, 2003 @12:05AM (#7015672)
      we got the dual processor g5 we ordered in at the university I work at and have had it for a while. I guess apple is really pushing to make the institutional customers happy. and if a university gets a g5 dozens of students can play with it and drool over it and become filled with g5 lust while if one regular customer gets one they'll just hide in their room mumbling about 'my preciousssss' and fondling it and that's not very good advertising and is sorta creepy.
  • Cocktease (Score:4, Interesting)

    by mrpuffypants ( 444598 ) * <(moc.liamg) (ta) (stnapyffuprm)> on Sunday September 21, 2003 @12:02AM (#7015663)
    It's a bit of a cocktease to post this link right now...Most of the mac community sites linked to the pictures at Virginia Tech's site but brought it down. Try clicking on the "pictures" link on their site and you'll se that they chmod 0'd the whole site so that the bandwidth usage won't peak out again

    The pics at chaosmint are a small selection of what was originally on the site.

    But to be on topic I'm suprised that Apple didn't get them Xserve G5's for the cluster. While the desktop G5's look cool it's really unneeded to use up all that space.
    • Re:Cocktease (Score:3, Insightful)

      by Maktoo ( 16901 )
      That's because there is no such thing from Apple yet. Given the serious engineering that obviously went into the G5 case, I don't think we can assume that they can just drop a G5 into a current XServe and sell it.

      Plus, these guys were on a pretty strict deadline, the cluster has to be functional by November IIRC. So, they wouldn't have wanted to wait any longer than they did.
  • by F2F ( 11474 ) on Sunday September 21, 2003 @12:06AM (#7015679)
    Pink [lanl.gov] at LANL has the following:

    1024 nodes
    2048 cpus
    1024 power cables
    1024 Myrinet network cards
    2048 fiber cables (8.8 miles)
    3072 Myrinet switch ports
    4096 sticks of RAM (2 Terabytes)
    7168 fans
    1 hard drive
    1 CDROM drive

    Not only do they have pictures of its assembly, they have movies [lanl.gov].

    Check the web page for more stats and better quality movies.

    Oh, yes, it's unclassified :)
  • by stevens ( 84346 ) on Sunday September 21, 2003 @12:18AM (#7015730) Homepage
    I hope they were able to run these without video cards. I can't imagine 1100 brand-new sweet ATI video cards sitting idle for years...
    • Re:Video cards... (Score:2, Informative)

      by jdog1016 ( 703094 )
      Actually, I remember when they posted the manual for potential volunteers for assembly, the instructions were to open the case, install the nic, and close the case, then test it by plugging it in and turning it on. So unless they removed it after that, there are 1100 video cards in that system.
    • What I dind a lot more troubling is that the 2GHz systems come by default with SuperDrives. It seems like an awful waste to produce 1,100 supeerdrives that'll never even be used. ever.
      • Re:Video cards... (Score:3, Insightful)

        by veddermatic ( 143964 )
        As mentioned, in 3-4 years when they cluster is no longer used, they will then have 1,100 desktop machines for use in labs / offices. I have a strange feeling they will be used then, and the fact taht VT will be able to remove 1,100 machines from it's needs that year will probably save them a couple bucks as well.
    • Re:Video cards... (Score:3, Insightful)

      by cygnus ( 17101 )
      actually, IIRC, they're promoting the video cards as a *benefit*. i think they're working on using those GPUs for more processing.
  • Ummmm.... (Score:3, Funny)

    by Y-Crate ( 540566 ) on Sunday September 21, 2003 @12:21AM (#7015743)
    As a Professional * Information Technology Location Analyst and Physical Security Specialist I need to use my professional abilities to make a professional analysis of the situation for my professional collegues so that we may put forth a professional solution to this problem.**

    * - I really, really hate people who make gratutious use of the word "professional" as some sort of elitist mark of supremecy

    ** - I would like to run in there, see if the machines are locked down, and grab as many as I can hold.

    (And yes, I'm just joking, I don't want to steal anything from them and I neither have the plans nor the means to do so, it's just a joke people)
  • All those silvery slick conforming cases remind me more of something from the book 1984. Ironic considering there advertising campaign of twenty years ago.

    Interesting project though, and for those wondering what it will actually do: (from VT press release)

    Virginia Tech researchers are already active in a number of areas that will benefit from the new supercomputing facilities, says Kevin Shinpaugh, director of research and cluster computing for the university. These include: nanoscale electronics, quant

  • by hraefn ( 627340 )
    I'm really feeling for the poor slobs who have to lift 1100 of those beasts onto shelves. G5s are heavy!!!
  • my first tech pr0n (Score:5, Interesting)

    by morcheeba ( 260908 ) on Sunday September 21, 2003 @12:38AM (#7015804) Journal
    Ah, vivid memories of the cover of Softtalk magazine, with a picture of the Apple II assembly line with hundreds of machines. Just imagine... 200 * 64k = 12.5 MEGABYTES! That would take 90 floppies to store all that data!

    Now some statistic pr0n:
    There were about 5 1/2 million Apple IIs sold [interesting-people.org], so at an average of 64k each (just a guess), that would be 343 GB of memory total. Adding up the couple of computers in the office (it's a 4 person company), we're about 1/70 of the way there. Assuming 2 140K floppy drives per computer, that would be 1.5TB of disk storage -- that would be 6 hard drives, and they would occupy less space than a single pair of old floppy drives.
  • by Kirby-meister ( 574952 ) on Sunday September 21, 2003 @01:20AM (#7015956)
    I volunteered time to help get some G5's ready for this baby, and I think my favorite moment was getting the tshirt all volunteers received:

    It is quite the fashion statement [vt.edu] :)

    (Excuse the blurriness and poor lighting - crappy cam and crappy dorm lighting)

  • How easy would it be for say someone to just accidently sneak one out for personal use who can not afford one?

  • by FredFnord ( 635797 ) on Sunday September 21, 2003 @03:19AM (#7016383)
    Or do you just want to bitch?

    The real answer is that the problems that are going to be solved with this cluster are easily parallelizable. That's the IDEA, right? 1100 machines, each running one chunk. Well, the G5, and more specifically the Altivec vector processing section of it, is SO MUCH better for processing big bites of easily parallelizable data at a time than any of the alternatives that it can run rings around any Intel or AMD machine you care to name with fewer than double the number of processors. (And in the cases of some particular kinds of calculations, it beats those, too. But you can't count on that for all your problems.)

    We've seen this before a number of times... I seem to recall a gene sequencing program that was running five or six times faster on a G4 than it was on a Pentium IV of the same speed. And then there's SETI@home, which runs much faster, cycle-for-cycle, on the Mac, and doesn't even USE altivec. (Though I believe it does take advantage of the 'multiply-and-add' instruction of the PPC, which is another nice little feature.)

    Altivec is an astonishingly clean and usable interface for an amazingly powerful vector processor that is, in 99% of the Macs out there, underutilized to the point that if it suddenly disappeared, most people wouldn't notice any difference at all. It's kind of a pity, really.

    Basically, Intel came out with MMX (and all the later developments) in order to have a talking point on a slide presentation about their processors, about the time when competitors like AMD were starting to come forward: functionally, an awful mess, and impossibly difficult to program. (In fact, for the first few years, Intel would send programmers out to work with companies to implement MMX, because otherwise none of them would bother.

    AMD came up with something that was a little less hacked together in a very short period of time, as a response to Intel. But it still wasn't pretty, at least partially because of the limitations of the archetecture, and the performance wasn't *that* much better than just doing without.

    Apple (who really designed a lot of the basics themselves when it comes to Altivec, so don't think this was a Motorola invention) said, 'Hey, wow, we need something like that, in order to compete.' First they decided on a coprocessor, but that didn't fly any better with the PPC than it did with the older Macs (840av, 660av) with DSPs in them. So they sat down and came up with a really *good* spec for a set of multimedia extensions. And they've only gotten better since.

    I've toyed with altivec code, and I can tell you that in one application that I wrote, one instruction (vector permute) did the work of ten or more non-altiveced instructions on four times the data per cycle. Mind you, I just did it for fun, I don't know enough about parallel computing problems to come up with anything useful... but there's some interesting stuff under the hood.

    Of course, nobody is going to believe this, because as fashionable as it is to like MacOS X on slashdot these days, nobody wants to admit that, for *some* subset of problems, Mr. Jobs's reality distortion field might not be quite as much of a distortion as you might think...

    -fred
  • by Decaffeinated Jedi ( 648571 ) on Sunday September 21, 2003 @07:23AM (#7016895) Homepage Journal
    Between the on-campus nuclear reactor and the supercomputer cluster, I'd keep an eye out if I were Tech's cross-state rival, University of Virginia. I'd say the Hokies are just one diabolical dean away from becoming an evil university bent on world domination. And five bucks says they start in Charlottesville.

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