This discussion has been archived.
No new comments can be posted.
G5s Start Shipping
Related Links Top of the: day, week, month.
The bomb will never go off. I speak as an expert in explosives. -- Admiral William Leahy, U.S. Atomic Bomb Project
Article? (Score:5, Informative)
Re:Article? (Score:5, Funny)
Re:Article? (Score:3, Funny)
Re:Article? (Score:3, Informative)
-B
Re:Article? (Score:3, Informative)
They've been out awhile. You can find IBM's Power4 (which the 970 spun-off from) in their pSeries and iSeries machines, I believe. Certainly the iSeries, I've been working with their 6-way i825 all summer. Its a beast! Of course, it also costs a quarter mil or so...
I'm good for it (Score:3, Funny)
Not a problem (Score:3, Funny)
Yeah, but they're dangerous! (Score:4, Funny)
Re:Yeah, but they're dangerous! (Score:4, Insightful)
Re:Yeah, but they're dangerous! (Score:3, Funny)
ObWhines (Score:5, Funny)
2) I can't afford one because I'm too lame to have a good job
3) Quicktime should be open source
4) Ogg Vorbis? Hel-LO!!!
5) I can't run 12-year old software on it
6) They should give it away for free
7) No x86 (though this is actually a plus
Re:ObWhines (Score:5, Interesting)
The one button doesn't bother me, but the lack of wheel does. On the other hand, I now have a logitech (USB) keyboard on my PC which has Apple symbols on the keycaps so presumably works on the Mac. It has a scrollwheel to the left of the keys, which I prefer using since it can be used by any finger easily, which reduces finger strain from stroking the mouse.
2) I can't afford one because I'm too lame to have a good job
Yeah, that was a shame. I'd been trying to avoid having a real job, but then when I saw Apple's prices I finally bit the bullet. Now a fully paid up member of the establishment.
3) Quicktime should be open sourceI don't care if Quicktime is open source, free software, or dictated to a trained monkey by God himself and compiled in secret. It should, however, support full screen video playback without upgrading to Pro for $30.
4) Ogg Vorbis? Hel-LO!!!
Hello [vorbis.com]
5) I can't run 12-year old software on it
Software lasts more than 18 months? Wow.
6) They should give it away for free
Well, I really can't disagree with this one. Of course they shouldn't give it away for free to everyone, just me.
7) No x86 (though this is actually a plus
More to the point, no x87. Now that is one brain-dead architecture...
Re:ObWhines (Score:4, Insightful)
you mean
2) I can't afford one because I'd rather spend 3000$ of my own time fixing Windows than the extra 1000$ it costs to buy a Mac.
Time is money, and this is where people get the equation wrong.
Actually, if you build it yourself, a very decent x86 box can be had for $600. Then again, you can get one from Dell or IBM or Compaq that is not horrible for that price with a monitor. The last machine I built cost me less than $500. The one I am building this week was around $200. New hardware.
As for Windows problems, I have none. You see there is this littel OS called Linux. Prhaps you have heard of it?
It would be pretty tough to build a $3000 - $5000 x86 desktop these days, and if you did, it would probably have at minimum twice the Ghz of the G5 per proc.
Re:ObWhines (Score:5, Insightful)
So, lets compare out-of-the-box GUI'd commercial OSes. I wish I could include BeOS and Warp in the list, but alas, MS slayed them.
The hardware shipped with G5s kick the stuffing out of any 600$ box, thankyouverymuch. Thats apples to oranges (shit, the gfx card in a G5 is half of you 600$ box alone
So try again? Build me a PC box with the level of componants in an Apple rig
Its good that you can get what you need for 600 bucks, but your resulting rig would be a far cry from the capabilities of a G5. I'm not saying that you can't build a cheaper PC rig that can do the same things as a G5, but at least be fair if you're going to honestly try and crunch my glibly provided numbers in my orig post.
And I'm a FreeBSD developer
Re:ObWhines (Score:5, Informative)
I realize it's an Opteron, which is technically a server processor, but it's the only currently available chip which I would say is comparable to the G5. And yeah, there's a 9600 Pro when the mobo doesn't have an AGP slot, but that's to keep the price comparison fair. So now the premium of the apple is only ~25% instead of 1000%.
I should also note that things like an operating system and peripherals were left out of my comparison system, since that cost is going to vary due to desire/needs in the x86 world. So basically you get a bare 1.8GHz dual Opteron for about $600 cheaper than a 2.0GHz dual G5. While, like I said, I'm an x86 fan and I like building my own systems, I could definitely rationalize a G5 purchase, and I don't exactly fall into their target demographic anyway. I really think Apple's got their act together with the G5 line. While to those of us used to building full systems of commodity hardware for a few hundred dollars, it sounds high, but in all reality, the pricing on the new systems is rather fair.
Re:ObWhines (Score:3, Insightful)
Also your machine is going to be one noisy son of a bitch with that Opteron in it. I run a 2Ghz Athlon XP and the damned thing sounds like a vacuum cleaner, even with a Thermaltake fan set on the low speed
Re:ObWhines (Score:5, Funny)
Ah, so you avoid Windows problems with Linux problems? Sneaky!
Re:ObWhines (Score:4, Funny)
That box! (Score:4, Interesting)
Re:That box! (Score:5, Interesting)
P.S. - rumour has it that new 17 and 15 inch powerbooks are coming out soon. Head on over to thinksecret.com.
Re:That box! (Score:3, Insightful)
"Steal me now!"
Re:That box! (Score:5, Funny)
Re:That box! (Score:5, Informative)
This really touches on the difference between apple and most wintel retailers. It's all about Quality. Quality is a basic aspect of the way we understand reality which underlies both the classicist and romanticist systems of thought. By refering to a list of easily measurable benchmarks, you are nailing your colors to the flag of classicist thinking and opposing the romanticist side of the product. Thinking that this is OK is how horrible products are created. Some people spend their whole lives laboring under this kind of thinking; you don't have to if you think about Quality. (Full disclosure: I'm reading Zen and the Art of Motorcycle Maintenance right now).
Re:That box! (Score:3, Insightful)
Re:That box! (Score:5, Insightful)
True Quality is not about simply delivering a nice product. It is a process which does not stop throughout the products' design and manufacture. As soon as you begin to cut corners, you begin to whittle away at this.
"We don't need the nice box," you say. That's cool, and probably true. You don't really need rounded edges or a shiny back, either. And you don't need the Chicago font, or a glowbing blue backlight, or a hold button. Fact is, 99% of the unit is in the short run inconsequential to the production of a digital music player.
But in the long run, it's these inconsequential elements that make the difference between a truly great machine and a half assed one. Really fine details smooth over the parts that may not work so great. There is a lot more leeway given, hence the Apple fanatic's uncanny ability to look over some of the stupid shit Apple does. After all, quality is a combination of all the factors of a product...here's something that looks well made, sounds well made, feels well made and comes with well made accessories in a well made box. At what point does the box start mattering? Well, it's the first thing you see at the check-out when you're about to shell out a bunch of cash for the thing, or it's the first thing you see when it comes in the mail. It's very reassuring.
Besides, the box is at most 5% of the cost of the final product. If you don't include it, you either reduce the price of the product by 5% or increase your margin by a similar amount. If additional sales as a result of the cool box are more than that 5%, and don't come at the expense of people willing to buy the thing if it were ONLY 5% cheaper, it's worthwhile to keep it. And I guarantee you that's not the case with the iPod.
hmmm.... (Score:5, Funny)
OR
$699 for a SCO-enchanced Linux kernel
THAT is the question;)
Finally.... (Score:5, Funny)
currently available configurations (Score:5, Informative)
$1,999.00
1.6GHz PowerPC G5
800MHz frontside bus
512K L2 cache
256MB DDR333 128-bit SDRAM
Expandable to 4GB SDRAM
80GB Serial ATA
SuperDrive
Three PCI Slots
NVIDIA GeForce FX 5200 Ultra
64MB DDR video memory
56K internal modem
$2,399.00
1.8GHz PowerPC G5
900MHz frontside bus
512K L2 cache
512MB DDR400 128-bit SDRAM
Expandable to 8GB SDRAM
160GB Serial ATA
SuperDrive
Three PCI-X Slots
NVIDIA GeForce FX 5200 Ultra
64MB DDR video memory
56K internal modem
damnit! (Score:5, Funny)
i'm still broke from the last apple i bought.. and now they have to make another one.. i can only donate sperm once a week.. that's a lot of clown punching for a cheese grater..
In What Quantity? (Score:4, Insightful)
beware the differences between the 1.6 & the 1 (Score:5, Informative)
1) The 1.6 only uses DDR333 memory, not DDR400 (I dunno if it can make use of DDR400 if you replace the DDR333 it comes with). The DDR400 being used in the 1.8 & 2.0 machines is apparently not that great (typical of Apple!). I'm wondering if the mobo can handle some Mushkin 2-2-2 PC3200 RAM if I got it?
2) The 1.6 can 'only' use up to 4GB of memory, vs 8GB for the 1.8 and 2.0 machines.
FYI if either of these things bugs you, be warned. Shop smart, shop...S-Mart!
Re:beware the differences between the 1.6 & th (Score:4, Informative)
Actually, Apple is using very nice samsung [memoryx.net] memory (with a lifetime warranty in the g5s. And if you click on the picture in that link [yimg.com], you'll see that those are samsung chips on a samsung PCB, which is the same RAM corsair, OCZ, and even mushkin has often used to get outstanding overclockable memory. These manufacturers just test the memory (if you're lucky) and cover it up with a heatspreader, which will void your warranty if you remove it to see what's underneath.
Soon we will have 64-bit laptops (Score:5, Interesting)
Now, some people may feel that 64 bits is not needed; that 32 bits is fine. However, certain hi-end rendering applications are already feeling the confines of a 32-bit application; since gaming uses rendering technology, games will also be feeling the limits of 32-bits in the foreseeable future.
Another application of 64 bits: Certain cryptographic algorithms (Whirlpool hash, Tiger hash, and the Hasty Pudding Cipher) are designed for 64-bit systems; these systems perform poorly on 32-bit systems.
The G5 is the first 64-bit computer-dummy-desktop available; in particular, high-quality laptops need to be produced in large numbers, and must be computer-dummy friendly. Hence, this will be the first time a high quality (small, light; tadpoles are neither small nor light) 64-bit laptop will be available.
Re:Soon we will have 64-bit laptops (Score:4, Interesting)
Soon?
Now [tadpolecomputer.com] (64bit sparc laptop)
Geeks changing to Apple (Score:4, Funny)
Gen 3:1Now the Apple was more subtil than any beast of the field which the God had made. And he said unto the woman, Yea, hath God said, Ye shall not eat of every computer of the garden?
Gen 3:6And when the linux geek saw that the G5 good for Unix, and that it was pleasant to the eyes, and a tree to be desired to make one hip, took of the Apple thereof, and did eat, and gave also unto the other geeks; and they did eat.
Gen 3:7And the eyes of them both were opened, and they knew that they weren't using Open Source; and they compiled aprons something using gpp.
Gen 3:13 And the LinusGod said unto the geek, What is this that thou hast done? And the linux geek said, The Apples are so sexy, they beguiled me, and I did eat.
What is up with slashdot? (Score:3, Funny)
Personally, I wish I had the money to get a G5 for college. My friend picked an Alienware over a G5, but I have a feeling he will regret it.
Re:What is up with slashdot? (Score:5, Insightful)
And now Apple comes around a makes a machine that's fast, nice looking, and doesn't require all of this extra knowledge and work to use.
Of course they're annoyed. Of course they're threatened. If Apple's stuff is any good, then they've been wasting their time.
So they spread FUD about broken applications, inconsequential complaints about how a $600 bargain PC is cheaper than a $3000 high end work station, or slander about how Apples are effeminate. It's all bullshit meant to make them feel better about a perceived waste. People do it all the time...just listen to the arguments people make about the benefits of sinking $10,000 into a $15,000 honda, rather than buy a $25,000 BMW.
It's childish in a way. Isn't there more to computing than JUST running an OS as fast as possible? If you do your computer stuff in Linux and like it, fine. I use Windows 2000, Gentoo and OSX 10.2 and none of them is better than any of the others for EVERYTHING. Granted, I spend more time tweaking the Gentoo box than either of the other two, but once I'm done I can just ignore it, and let it chug away serving web pages, databases, etc to its hearts content. Admining the 2k box is generally to keep it from falling apart in DLL hell...and admining the Apple machine is usually accepting that "you can't do that" on an apple
Re:What is up with slashdot? (Score:4, Insightful)
have you ever looked at an alienware PC? The video card alone might run you $500.
Alienware PCs are gameing systems pure and simple. MACs, no matter how cool, fast, 64 bit, sexy, are not gameing systems. I am not talking theory here (they should be able to play games well) I am talking reality. And reality is that a lot, probably most, games are not released for the mac, and if they are it is a half-assed port sometimes years after the PC original came out. If this guy bought an alienware PC it means 3 things. 1.He wants to play games 2.He has more money than I do -and- 3.he is too lazy to build the same thing on his own with individual parts.
Now with his Alienware pC, when inspiration hits him he will be able to make that awesome Neverwinter Nights module he'd been thinking about for days. No matter how cool his Mac is he won't be able to do that...
Re:What is up with slashdot? (Score:3, Funny)
Now with his Alienware pC, when inspiration hits him he will be able to make that awesome Neverwinter Nights module he'd been thinking about for days. No matter how cool his Mac is he won't be able to do that...
Which is why, like the original poster said, he'll probably regret it - after he flunks out of college from spending all his time gaming.
If he had the PowerMac, he could flunk out of college after spending all his time ripping DVDs : )
Re:What is up with slashdot? (Score:3, Interesting)
No, she doesn't have the choice of games I have on my PC, and I'm sure she really regrets being unable to play Postal 2 or Soldier of Fortune considering how much she loves needless gore. Yeah, they came out an a
Thanks for reminding me! (Score:3, Funny)
(Yes, I knew they were coming, but I needed an upgrade for an important project 6 months ago...)
-ch
What a box! (Score:3, Funny)
-m
Title is wrong. (Score:5, Funny)
Heat? (Score:4, Interesting)
The upcoming P4 3.4GHz is going to consume 103 WATTS.
Intel document confirms Prescott dissipates 103 W [theinquirer.net]
Re:Heat? (Score:5, Informative)
try describing a sunset to a blind person... (Score:3, Insightful)
here's a clue, it ain't in the processor speed, it's in the software, stupid...sure pcs have the same kinds of programs, but they don't run nearly as well...the latest examples being the iPod, iTunes and the Apple Music Store--each one was being done on the pc, yet Apple came in and changed the game with its products, with an experience that's totally superior in every way (my girlfriend gave me her old iPod when she got a new one--it sat on my shelf for a couple of weeks, until i finally started to use it, and no shit, it changed my life! i can now carry my entire cd collection in my pocket, and the thing works like a champ) ...here's a tip, to any flamers that say 'so what' about any of these examples, i would bet the farm that they've never actually USED any of them!;>
-mojo
Why would Macs be dying? (Score:5, Interesting)
The speed limit in my country is 100km/h max. Can you find a single car on the market that can't reach that? No. So then everybody should be driving around the cheapest of cheap cars then, right? Nope. People pay many times that for a car, though it'll get them there no faster (assuming you're reasonably law-abiding and doesn't speed beyond the capabilities of a low-end car). The Mac whining is about as bad as a person looking at a Ferrari, then bragging about how his compact car will get him from A to B just as fast at a fraction of the cost.
I'm more tempted to buy a Mac now than I've ever been since I moved off C64 to a PC. Perhaps not tempted enough yet (mostly due to applications I know and love), but the scales are definately moving in the right direction.
Kjella
Re:hurray for apple (Score:5, Informative)
--Quentin
The NYT reports... (Score:5, Informative)
Re:The NYT reports... (Score:3, Funny)
i've been waiting a millenia to say that...
Re:hurray for apple (Score:5, Insightful)
Many people have been in a holding pattern, using old machines running OS 9 for two reasons:
1) They would need a new machine to really make the most of OS X, and they wanted to wait until the successor to the G4 was available.
2) They didn't want to make the move to OS X until a native QuarkXPress was available for it.
Both of those conditions have now been fulfilled. Apple will not be able to crank out these things fast enough (even moreso than usual) to meet all the pent-up demand.
I bet once the numbers are in, we'll find out that this was Apple's best quarter in a few years, maybe even since the return of Jobs.
~Philly
Re:hurray for apple (Score:3, Informative)
There was a survey at a conference filled with "publishing pros" that said only 17% of them had switched to OSX. I find that hard to believe, but it gets quoted a lot. This may fix that. Honestly I can't understand why anyone would stay with OS9 given its many flaws and weaknesses. But never underestimate the power of inertia. People prefer
Re:hurray for apple (Score:5, Interesting)
Have you checked out XCode [apple.com] ?
Re:hurray for apple (Score:5, Informative)
My big problem is that the type of code I deal with often involves very subtle bugs. To fix the bugs I must go though the code in many many steps. PB doesn't retain your watch variables between calls to the debugger. That means when I restart the code to re-examine a process I have to retype in all my variables or else put printf's in the code. Compare this to Visual Studio which has amazingly simple and easy to use watch panes - four of them in fact. It is easy to "drill down" into structs and classes. And most importantly they retain their variables each time I restart the debugger.
I've asked a few people playing around with Xcode and by and large the changes to the actual debugging UI is only superficially changed. I've sent in lots of feedback to Apple but nothing has been done. This is amazing to me as adding something like Visual Studio's debugging panes would not be very hard. I'd be very, very surprised if it would take more than a week of work. But for reasons known only to them, Apple has not done it. And thus I primarily debug in Visual Studio.
Re:hurray for apple (Score:5, Informative)
How about NOT having to leave your debugging session when you make simple changes?
Check out XCode's features [apple.com], notably the Fix And Continue and ZeroLink.
It makes fixing silly things a snappy process, and you don't need to restart your test suite to get back to the same point. Just fix WHILE you debug, recompile the fixed code and resume execution where you left off, foregoing any application re-initialization (such as connecting back to a server).
Re:hurray for apple (Score:5, Insightful)
The issue isn't fixing the bug it is finding the bug. Sometimes subtle logic bugs can take many days of iterating through the code to find.
Re:hurray for apple (Score:4, Insightful)
as a professional developer, even $2499 is recovered in a few days when you're tracking an extremely nasty bug.
Then write better code :)
Seriously, though, I am also both a C++ Win32 and Apple developer. I agree that PB is not as good as Visual Studio, but that's not the point. It's like saying that iMovie is not good enough because Final Cut Pro is better. Well, you pay $1000 for Final Cut Pro, so it should be better. Similarly, you pay an arm and a leg for Visual Studio, which gives Microsoft the resources to invest in adding more features and making it a richer development environment. You get what you pay for. That's life. And while there are some things about PB that drive me nuts, for free development tools I think PB and IB are pretty good (IMHO, IB spanks VC++ for UI design -- can't speak for VB or "C#" though), and I'm looking forward to XCode.
Re:hurray for apple (Score:5, Interesting)
We are looking to upgrade our trapping software, but so far all the offerings seem to suck, badly. If anyone knows of a good trapping software, that runs on UNIX/Linux/or even OSX as a last resort, that is up to date, that doesn't require you buy into their "workflow management" software as well, that can be automated, preferably with a shell script or hot folders, let me know.
There was some issues around font management, but I think they are fixed now, with some training in OS X font management. That's been another hurdle, getting the artists to accept the change. I think they are ready for it now though, just need to get that trapping software ready, and Quark going.
Re:hurray for apple (Score:5, Insightful)
Re:hurray for apple (Score:4, Funny)
Re:hurray for apple (Score:3, Interesting)
Re:hurray for apple (Score:5, Funny)
Re:It's Not That Complicated (Score:5, Funny)
You need to stop eating aluminum-colored apples, man. It's impairing your judgment.
Re:It's Not That Complicated (Score:4, Funny)
Re:It's Not That Complicated (Score:5, Insightful)
Because hardware companies are cheap.
Why do you think people assume LCDs have a better display?
I didn't know people assumed LCDs have a better display. The reason most people I know buy LCDs is to get a larger physical screen size without having to sacrifice desk surface area for a hulking CRT.
Remember, we're talking about people that buy a computer because it's cute, inexpensive, and named after fruit that matches the color.
Erm, no. We're talking about the professional market here. They knew the G5 was coming for the last year, just not exactly when. And I can tell you that every one of my clients, professionals one and all, were waiting for exactly what I said: the next generation of Macs beyond the G4, and OS X-native QuarkXPress. If you had read the articles in the Mac press since 10.2 was released, you'ld know that that was by far the predominant stance.
I was waiting to replace my primary home machine as well, nursing along a 6 year-old Power Mac-- finally last year I couldn't wait any longer and picked up a used G4 that had the horsepower to run OS X, because I needed to get familiar with it so I could effectively support it when the time comes. In January, the G4 goes bye-bye and I get a dual G5, which is what I was waiting for all along. I just hope Apple manages to catch up with demand by then.
~Philly
Re:It's Not That Complicated (Score:5, Informative)
And if you get the right screens (mostly LeCei or Apple), they have beautiful color correction, at a par with the best CRT's.
This is vs. CTR's advantages:
So, I think your "CRT's blow lcd's away" comment is unwarranted.
Re:It's Not That Complicated (Score:3, Insightful)
And why not? iMacs are every bit as much "real" computers as any ugly beige PC is. Their PowerPC CPUs are just us powerful as any other PowerPC CPU of the same speed (in fact, I believe that Cicso uses PowerPCs in some of their routers); their IDE hard drives are the same as any PC IDE hard drive; their ethernet and USB controllers a
Re:hurray for apple (Score:4, Interesting)
I can certainly see all Apple owners salivating for this one, so I believe eventually they'll own one. It's comparatively cheaper to a G4, after all.
Now, for me, I can't have a Mac as my main computer because the kind of software development I do is mostly x86-based (not Windows, mind you), but I am recommending buying Mac for everyone, because I don't like people around me to waste time learning how to use their computers, fix their crashes or remove that damn Blaster thing. Not to say MacOS X is indestructible or anything, but it's a big reliability leap for most Windows users.
At worst, I think they'll keep their marketshare, but I also believe people will have less of an argument not to buy a Mac.
Re:hurray for apple (Score:5, Informative)
Re:hurray for apple (Score:4, Informative)
if by "production problems" you mean "didn't know when to stop," then yes, apple had problems with the production of the PM G4 Cube.
i wish that apple had properly priced that line! if you had a choice of $2000 for a non-expandable though small brick computer, or $1500 for an expandable G4 tower at the same speed, which would you do?
exactly.
Re:hurray for apple (Score:5, Informative)
THAT will most likely be driven buy how many people buy the machines and what sort of market demand there is.
And yes, we are talking months, maybe years.
BEsides- you'll see more performance gain from the GHZ rating rather than from the 64-bit-ness, (unless you have a need for LOTS of addressable ram. 64bit is a virtual memory manager's dream.
Wow, this is totally wrong (Score:5, Interesting)
Macs are definitely know for long shelf life. In fact, it's one of the Macs strongest arguments. I personally know someone still using a 9 year old Mac as her production machine, simply because there was no real necessity to upgrade. She hopes to be moving to a G5 now, but 9 years is almost unheard of in the computing world. In fact, this lifespan is one of Apple's problems. The move to OS X has been slow because people are happy with their current computers and don't want to adopt a new OS yet while their computer has life left.
Re:hurray for apple (Score:5, Insightful)
Listen, 64-bit is not a hardware issue as much as it is a software issue. Yes, the hardware support needs to be there first, but really it about wether or not the software will actually use the 64-bit modes.
It's not like 64-bit is always a win-win situation. Some programs will always run faster when compiled in a 32-bit addressing mode simply because 32-bit can be more efficient when not addressing large amounts of ram. Just like there are programs that can be written entirely withing the 16-bit addressing modes of the x86 that will outperform the 32-bit version. Though I would guess that today that number is rather small.
I hope that the Mac continues to be a hybrid of 32 and 64 bit programs for awhile. It won't be expensive to maintain compatability from the OS perspective, and it will ensure that all of us that don't want to upgrade will be able to run all the software for awhile.
Apple already has the infistructure in place so that people with G5s will be able to run G5 versions and people with G4s will be able to run a G4 version. Their executable format allows for multiple versions of the same program so that the developers can simple recompile for the G5 ahead of time and package it with the G4 version in the same file. (like the old 'fat' binaries of yore with 68k and ppc code in them)
Besides, you can't 'just recompile' and get benefits of 64 computing. It's not that simple. If you don't program with the intent of being x-platform then you can't recompile and have it work. Also, as you hinted, the G5 has a radically different idea about what kind of code it optimal compared to the G4, thus any code targeted for the G4 will perform sub-standard. We'll just have to wait a month or two until all the software catches up to the hardware. The G5 will only seem to get faster and faster as more software is retargeted for it.
The G5 is more then a step up in clock speed, it's a whole new generation of processor, a bigger step from the G3 to G4. But no matter how you look at it, it's a step up. Maybe not as big as you want it to be and this is something that I think a few people are (still) sore about.
Re:hurray for apple (Score:5, Informative)
Re:Text console? (Score:5, Informative)
Re:2 things keeping market share down (Score:5, Insightful)
Re:2 things keeping market share down (Score:3, Informative)
Apple IS dying (Score:5, Funny)
Dude, that is SO true! In fact, Apple has been dying since 1985, if not earlier. It's been a long, slow, miserable death with nothing to show for it.
Forget all of the things Apple has brought to computing. Forget the Music Store. Forget the G5s. Forget OS X. Forget the XServe. Forget their pro apps. Forget that they're making money while everyone else but Dell is losing money.
They are done! Toast! Finished!
Re:Apple IS dying (Score:5, Funny)
Define "dead" (Score:4, Interesting)
I know this analogy is overused, but is BMW dead? Because they sure don't command 95% of the industry. Poor BMW.
Apple as a niche player? Fine. If you want the best machine for doing your video work or whatnot, you know where to go. You won't find me running to my local Ford dealership for a high performance racing machine that I plan on racing in the circuits. I'll get my "niche" Panoz or Ferrari. Then again, if I feel like "downgrading", I guess I could always get an eMac.
Dead. They're not dead people. They're a company that is alive and well. No they don't own the "market", but just because McDonald's sells more fries than anyone else doesn't make them better either. They are alive and well, still doing R&D, still innovating, still giving shareholders value for their stock.
Re:hurray for apple (Score:4, Insightful)
Had Motorola not fallen behind so badly then I think that we'd not be complaining so much (nor needing the horrible wait the last year for the 970).
The problem with the 970 / G5 is that it doesn't really have as many integer processing units. So it really isn't that much faster per clock cycle than the G4. (The benchmarks show this) However the bandwidth and vector units are very impressive. Perhaps the G6 will improve integer performance.
Re:I want one! (Score:4, Insightful)
Re:I want one! (Score:5, Funny)
Yeah, Apple is always trying to screw the customer, by selling computers, and then coming out with faster ones!
Re:I want one! (Score:3)
While I agree with not buying the first release (especially since Panther isn't out yet - might as well get it pre-installed), a year is definitely excessive. B
Re:Apple's Market Share (Score:3, Insightful)
Re:Apple's Market Share (Score:5, Insightful)
If Microsoft advertising ever stops drowning everybody out and they stop forcing computer distributors to *only* offer their OS, then people still start to gain a little more visibility. It really wasn't all that long ago that people knew Amiga, Commadore, Apple, IBM existed
I know of at least two people recently who bought a whole new computer cause they fucked up their Windows installation and figured it'd be easier to buy a new machine. This is an excellant example of how little choice consumers feel they have in the OS world. Who the hell buys something, watches it break from every day use, and goes out to buy the exact same thing? Obviously, somebody who feels that there isn't much else to buy.
Nobody ever got fired for buying IBM, and nobody ever felt alone suffering through Windows problems. When more of your friends have Apple, you'll be more likely to see the value of spending more on a computer (and subsequently buying computers/OS upgrades less often)
And of course I run Windows. Because my neighbours do
Re:Apple's Market Share (Score:3, Insightful)
$1,000? How do you figure that? E-macs (not to be confused with emacs, although it is included) start at $699 last I checked.
Re:it's about freaking time! (Score:3, Informative)
For the record, Summer ends with the Solstice around Sept. 20/21. So they're actually a month early.
Re:it's about freaking time! (Score:3, Funny)
I don't live in the Northern Hemisphere, you insesitive clod!
Re:The last of the Apple-based OSX machines? (Score:4, Informative)
OS X is based on the Mach kernel with a BSD userland. On top of that they put the Aqua windowing system. The only thing it has in common with Linux is that you build it with gcc.
Re:The last of the Apple-based OSX machines? (Score:3, Interesting)
Having someone with media connections write a poorly thought out article about an idea that has been debunked countless times over the last decade or two doesn't suddenly make the idea valid. It just makes the 'journalist' in question the real world equivalent of a karma whore; posting things everyone has heard and ought to know better than, in order to bring in readers and generate buzz, even if they are hostile.
Re:Meh. (Score:5, Insightful)
The Mac is just nicer to use. That's really all there is to it, and yes that's subjective I guess, although even the hardcore Windows fanatics I know admit the GUI is a mess. As for price differences, there really isn't that much of a gap if you compare equivalently equiped machines of comparable quality.
The quality factor is important. I built my own PC, for example, and would never bother with some $500 gray box. There really is no bargain basement Mac, but I don't think I'd want one anyway.
As an aside, I find it weird that there is so much quibbling over a couple bucks in the personal computer world. I know a guy at work who bought a $60,000 car and a $5000 plasma television, and then spent three weeks online to save $100 on a PC (he paid $500 instead of $600). I consider my time to be money, and the time saved using my Mac pays for any price gap easily within a month.
Re:Meh. (Score:5, Insightful)
I switched to Mac from Linux because it works. Add Fink [sf.net] to it, and it acts just like a Linux box. I have a PowerBook, and it's by far my favorite laptop (of many laptops I've owned).
What does "it works" mean? It almost never crashes. It almost never needs drivers. It runs MS Office. It's a Unix workstation: bash shell, X, KDE, Gnome, etc. It goes to sleep when the lid closes and comes back within 1 second when the lid opens (I rarely turn it "off"). iPhoto, iTunes, iPod, iMovie are excellent, simple, and easy (not power programs, but excellent for the basics). And most important, it's pretty (titanium or aluminum case).
I still use Debian/Dell on my servers. But for a laptop, OS X is incredibly useful.
It's not about speed anymore. About the PIII, I quit caring about speed. Everything after that is *fast*. My Powerbook 800 is probably about as fast as a PIII 800. For programming, documents, etc., speed isn't the issue anymore. The issue is usability. Personally, I really like KDE. I still use it on my Mac once in a while. I also like OS X. It just works.
Re:Meh. (Score:3, Informative)
The best thing about them is OSX. Most of the advantages of Linux, along with a GUI that beats the crap out of Windows.
They are a little slower for the money than a typical Windows clone, on most benchmarks - much faster on a handful. In practical terms you aren't likely to notice the difference.
Naturally the hardware integration, drivers, and so forth are superb, being a single-source supplier.
Re:OS X version 10.2.7? (Score:4, Interesting)
Apple has a long history of shipping a new a.b.x release to support new hardware, and then latter shipping another version for all hardware. In almost all cases there were few changes no directly related to supporting the new hardware.
In this case the rumors are that 10.2.7 will add libraries for handling 64 bit processes. The libraries will be in parallel to the 32 bit version, so simply by changing the library you link against will change the application from a 32 bit to a 64 bit application (in many cases... if you did something fancy.. you might have to change you code).
This is how apple apparently plans on allowing the 10.2.x series to use 64bit applications without a major re-write. Eventually MacOS X will be 64bit only... but I expect that to take a few years (thinking 5 or so).
Re:Wild (Score:4, Insightful)
Funny... People have been saying that since the beginning of the nineties... Yet Apple revolutionize again and again, and show better prosper than ever. This year we got the Music Store, the Power Mac G5, the 17" Powerbook, the new iPods... Apple and Dell are the only companies in the same industry that show profits right now.
Is Apple dead?
Not by a long shot...
Re:Sorry (Score:3, Insightful)
Can someone explain to me why I should buy A Mac when I can get a faster PC for less?
Why would anyone pay $2000+ for a Paul Reed Smith guitar when they could get a Fender Squire for $200? Why do people pay millions for Stradivarius violins?
A Mac is like a fine musical instrument. It usually isn't "just a tool." Attention to detail, fit and finish figure into the value.
A Mac is like a fine musical instrum
Re:AMD responses (Score:3, Insightful)
Re:Emachines (Score:3, Funny)
That's not something I'd admit to in a public forum such as this.
Numbers (Score:3, Interesting)
- Microsoft, #15
- Intel, #28
- Cisco, #38
- Dell, #50
- Hewlett-Packard, #109
- Texas Instruments, #200
- Sun Microsystems, #213
- wait for it...
- OH! There they are, Apple, #381!
Numbers speak it all, my man.