Most Sun Employees Own Macs 164
An anonymous user writes, "Most Sun Microsystems employees use Apple when they're not at work. This leaves Jonathan Schwartz, executive vice-president of Sun's software group, hinting at a Sun/Apple partnership." This comes on the heels of Pat Gelsinger, senior VP and chief technology officer of Intel, claiming Apple makes the wrong decisions about CPUs. So it figures Sun, who Intel likely thinks wouldn't know a good processor if it came up and -- um, processed something, would like Macs.
Oo! Oo! Apple and Sun are merging!!! (Score:1, Funny)
Re:Oo! Oo! Apple and Sun are mergeing!!! (Score:5, Funny)
Well it is a different industry.
Fusion (Score:3, Funny)
Does it come complete with a silly dance?
(Stupid DBZ reference, back to your normal programming.)
hey! (Score:2)
Re:Oo! Oo! Apple and Sun are mergeing!!! (Score:2)
We're #3 (Score:2)
Re:Oo! Oo! Apple and Sun are mergeing!!! (Score:2)
(Obvious, yes, but it had to be said.)
Re:Oo! Oo! Apple and Sun are merging!!! (Score:1)
Re:Oo! Oo! Apple and Sun are merging!!! (Score:2)
No, Sun employees hoping for work (Score:5, Funny)
Re:Oo! Oo! Apple and Sun are merging!!! (Score:2)
The companies have complimentary product lines. Of course you would have to figure out who would run a merged company in a way that took advantage of the strengths of each.
That isn't a trivial issue.
Quel Suprise! (Score:3, Insightful)
Re:Quel Suprise! (Score:1)
Re:Quel Suprise! (Score:2)
OTOH, if they come out with a quad-processor G5 machine (rumor started just this minute), they would be well on the way to showing capability in the enterprise server market. Considering the small relative marketshare for large Sun servers, Apple probably wouldn't need them.
Re:Quel Suprise! (Score:2, Funny)
Re:Quel Suprise! (Score:2)
Sorry to burst your bubble, but Ryan Meader [macosrumors.com] started it three years ago.
Re:Quel Suprise! (Score:2)
Re:Quel Suprise! (Score:2)
Re:Quel Suprise! (Score:3, Interesting)
Sun makes mostly server machines because Linux PCs have taken away their workstation market. Between Linux's cost and Apple's ease of use Sun has little chance of retaking this market.
Does this mean... (Score:5, Funny)
>
...ok that was a really really bad joke, fortunatly this is slashdot so it's sure to get modded up. PS Can you find the misspelling?
Miss Pelling? (Score:1, Funny)
blast form the past (Score:1)
Re:blast form the past (Score:3, Insightful)
Newton (Score:2)
Re:blast form the past (Score:2)
More Interesting ... (Score:5, Interesting)
Jonathan Schwartz, executive vice-president of Sun's software group, also said that a broad software-license deal struck with AT&T in the late 1990s allowed the company to inject whatever code it wanted into the Linux kernel. Schwartz pledged to indemnify its customers against any lawsuits by the SCO Group or another supplier.
I'm hoping that the author of the piece confused Linux and UNIX, and not Jonathan Schwartz, as I don't see how a deal struck with AT&T could be relevant to Linux, which isn't AT&T's IP.
I'm also wondering what form the "indemnifying" would take. Maybe just a guarantee that if Mad Hatter licenses are invalidated by the SCO lawsuit, Sun will provide an alternative UNIX operating system?
Re:More Interesting ... (Score:3, Interesting)
I think the confusion may have been "late 1990s" versus early 1990s. From what I've read, Sun did outlay a buttload of money for an above-average UNIX license, where they can stand behind their claim to imdemnify Sun customers. However, my take on the whole thing was that Solaris customers and not necessarily Linux customers would be protected. But the mention of injecting code into the Linux kernel has confused me, again, on the whole m
Re:More Interesting ... (Score:4, Informative)
No idea on the legal merits of that argument, but I don't get what your objection is.
Re:More Interesting ... (Score:3, Interesting)
but I don't get what your objection is.
The IP on Linux the kernel isn't owned by SCO, it's owned by Linus Torvalds and the contributing developers to the Linux kernel as licensed under the GPL. SCO's license doesn't cover what Sun can do with the GPL. So unless they are saying that SCO's license to Sun permits Sun to add SCO code to Linux and release that code under the GPL, Sun would have to release the product with SCO code in it under a different license, which Linux won't allow. Now if it is true tha
Re:More Interesting ... (Score:3, Informative)
So why does SCO even matter in this arrangement, other than the enforcer of the rights that Sun bought from AT&T?
AT&T gives Sun the right to the code
Sun injects said code into Linux *or* has the right to
SCO buys rights to code/IP outright
SCO claims SCO's newfound IP has contaminated Linux and demands reparations
Sun contends that
Re:More Interesting ... (Score:2)
I was going to say this is unlikely, but in fact it is quite poss
Re:More Interesting ... (Score:2)
Yeah, right (Score:4, Insightful)
Quiz questions -
Which vendor, Sun or Intel, had a 64-bit processor first? By how many years?
Measuring a "good processor" isn't just about speed.
Re:Yeah, right (Score:1)
Re:Yeah, right (Score:5, Informative)
DEC? SGI?
Re:Yeah, right (Score:1, Interesting)
Re:Yeah, right (Score:2)
Re:Yeah, right (Score:2)
Atari [cwest.com]!
Statement pulled out of someone's ass? (Score:5, Informative)
Other than myself, I only know of three other employees that use a mac. One uses his as his primary work machine (other than his Solaris boxes), one has a powerbook that he uses as his portable and is probably not his primary machine, the other - I don't know about him and myself, I just use my powerbook here and there as a portable solution. I wouldn't use a mac as my main or desktop machine. I just wanted a sturdy, simple, reliable laptop and Mac seemed a good choice. Makes it simple for me to access almost any network environment and most services within seconds as opposed to all the trouble a windows box would give me.
But yeah... I would say that "most employees" is incredibly off base. Not only that, but of those employees that *do* use Macs at home, few probably use them as their main machines.
Maybe what they really meant was "most Sun *EXECUTIVES* run macs at home"?
Re:Statement pulled out of someone's ass? (Score:3, Informative)
Re:Statement pulled out of someone's ass? (Score:2, Funny)
Re:Statement pulled out of someone's ass? (Score:2, Funny)
Re:Statement pulled out of someone's ass? (Score:4, Funny)
Re:Statement pulled out of someone's ass? (Score:3, Funny)
That doesn't say a whole lot. Ever heard a Mac fanatic ramble?
Re:Statement pulled out of someone's ass? (Score:2)
Re:Statement pulled out of someone's ass? (Score:2)
I personally don't. That's so... 1995.
Re:Statement pulled out of someone's ass? (Score:5, Funny)
"Analysis comes from 2 words:
-Anal
and
-Isis which is a latin word meaning 'to pull numbers from' "
Or something like that... I don't have the book near me. (I'm working right now... )
Re:Statement pulled out of someone's ass? (Score:2, Interesting)
If only OpenOffice/Staroffice would run in Aqua mode under OSX, everything would be
Re:Statement pulled out of someone's ass? (Score:5, Informative)
(Unless, of course, you had permission: we were in consulting, our customers wanted Office documents, wqe eventually got permission to dual-boot our laptops with Solaris and Windows. Which meant, in practice, most people used Windows.)
In any case, it does not require special permission to put a Mac on the internal network, so I see real advantages there. It's entirely possible Macs are more and more widely used within Sun.
(Another point: James Gosling said he was going Mac some years ago because he didn't want to cope with MS's license policy, and I wouldn't be surprised if many followed his lead.)
Not much of a hint (Score:2)
"We would love to partner with Apple,' he said. "They're everyone's favorite company, and iTunes is really cool."
That sounds less like a hint of a possible Apple/Sun alliance and more like fanboy-ish daydreaming.
I know why... (Score:2)
Truth is it would give them the ability to do all the java and most of the UNIX stuff they do on their Sun boxes at work, only with BSD, yet still allow them to do things like watch quicktime and use IE or Safari. Besides Mac has a way better gui than Sun.
Re:I know why... (Score:2, Funny)
Re:I know why... (Score:2)
policy that disallows connecting Windows machines to the Sun network from home.
Not at all surprising.
Most internal corporate networks are, compared to folks that endure the raw net, relatively relaxed (years old vulnerabilities available) behind their firewalls.
They sure as hell don't want Joe Manager logging in from his home Windows box onto the internal network right after his teenage daughter has been viewing email attachments from all her new "friends".
Gelsinger's vision for future technology? (Score:4, Funny)
Apparently Intel follows an all-to-common business model, which has been scientifically proven to inevitably lead to cannibalism:
Re:Gelsinger's vision for future technology? (Score:3, Funny)
>2. ? (something about processors)
>3. Profit!
You know you have been staring at code too long when you read the first line as "Eat chicken".
Sigh.
I'll believe it when I see it (Score:5, Informative)
If you look into it, you'll just find sun blaming apple and apple blaming sun. So while a 'partnership' would probably be very cool, I just don't see it happening without some drastic changes taking place first.
Re:I'll believe it when I see it (Score:5, Funny)
So what you're saying is that they skipped the "being in bed together" part and went straight to marriage.
Re:I'll believe it when I see it (Score:2)
(cheers! aaron from wwdc)
Re:I'll believe it when I see it (Score:2)
A piece of advice: put a link to your shareware website into your slashdot signature and/or as your personal homepage link. It can be a big boost to your google rank. As I am mainly a lurker by nature it also gives me an incentive to post things.
Re:I'll believe it when I see it (Score:2)
Re:I'll believe it when I see it (Score:2)
It turns out that vastly more people on the web use the term sketch comedy [google.com], but still, I have always used skit comedy, and I stuck it in the title tag, which I think google uses intensly. Hmm... thinking of this just now I realize that I should put 'Mac OS X Risk' or something into the title of Lux's webpage.
Well, when you have an eye for quality... (Score:5, Insightful)
It is very understandable why they would prefer Mac OS over Windows, and Macintosh computers over white-box PCs.
Re:Well, when you have an eye for quality... (Score:3, Interesting)
the only reason UltraSPARC III isn't blasting away everyone else, I believe, is due to manufacturing constraints.
UltraSPARC III would have been a great chip if it were released when Sun originally planned, instead of two years later.
Makers of superior CPU technology are probably hitting themselves in the stomach because Intel, with huge money for fabs, was able to get enough performance per dollar to dominate the industry, merely to fritter it all away on the Itanic.
Ah, if only the designers of Alpha,
MadHatter (Score:2)
This is awesome. Sun is using Open Source to its fullest, here, where packaging, branding, and support are used to take a figurative 2x4 to the back of Microsoft's figurative head. Even if there is only luke-warm adoption of MadHatter, the impact on pricing industry-wide will be a win for everyone.
This is no suprise. (Score:5, Insightful)
- Install Solaris 9
- Realize that getting the box to halfway resemble the functionality of your Sun box at work would take two onsite admins...
- Take the Sun Blade back
- Buy an Apple (cause its Unix and media capable)
- Profit$$
Remember, there's a reason that your local Sun admin doesn't have a Sun box at his house... (s)he's worked darn hard at getting the applications working off the network at work. Why would they want have to duplicate their efforts at home on the hardware and network they can afford? For what? It's just cheaper and easier to go Apple with the same satisfaction. Of course, if Linux and OSX did not exist and Windows was the only option... Sun employees would have Sun boxes at home. Even if it was just a Sparc2 running SunOS 4.1.1.
Re:This is no suprise. (Score:1)
Re:This is no suprise. (Score:5, Insightful)
Re:This is no suprise. (Score:5, Funny)
Would you crave the excitement of configuring a sun box or some obscure linux distribution?
Re:This is no suprise. (Score:4, Informative)
Buying a used Sun workstation and the media kit/RTU license for Solaris 9 is a great way to learn UNIX. The bundled documentation is thorough, and there is a strong on-line Sun community (fan sites, newsgroups, news sites, etc.).
Actually, the software and documentation that comes in the Solaris box set is sufficient for a motivated person to get Sun Certified with no outside help, such as training classes. However, I would recommend buying a book for the Sun Certified Network Admin exam (it's much less clear-cut than the System Admin exams).
Re:This is no suprise. (Score:2, Informative)
Re:This is no suprise. (Score:3, Funny)
Then I made the mistake of taking a job with PCs which paid more money. One of my home macs now lives on my work desk and is the only thing there keeping me sane. There's been talk about disallowing me use of my own machine at work. If this actually happens I'll think i'll start looking for another j
Re:This is no suprise. (Score:2)
Re:This is no suprise. (Score:5, Insightful)
Sounds to me like this is just spin to try and push towards that nebulous partnership with Apple by giving them some good press. Oh, and did I mention I own more PCs than macs still?
With regard to running SPARCs at home, that's just silliness. You don't run much quicken, unreal tournament, etc. on Solaris. It has nothing to do with "how hard" it is to get applications working on Solaris, it's that I have no need to run Oracle or Pro/E or a major webservice at home.
As for Sun not knowing CPUs, if that's really what Intel thinks, they're stupider than their history makes them out to be. Sun "inherited" a bunch of talented CPU people from other companies that have joined the dustbin of history, and have had a few of our own along the way as well. How much longer than Intel have we had a working 64 bit architecture?
Re:This is no suprise. (Score:3, Interesting)
Eh? Solaris 9 + StarOffice + Netscape 7 makes a very viable home computer for people who don't mind tinkering a bit. It's really no worse than Linux, other than GNUCash won't link on Solaris 9 for some very obscure reason (stupid libtool).
Add a used SunPCi card (AMD K6 PC on a PCI card), and you can also run Windows or, with a little work, Linux x86 simultaneously with Solaris.
Add a PlayStation for gaming.
It works for me
Re:This is no suprise. (Score:4, Interesting)
Re:This is no suprise. (Score:2)
I haven't tried it myself, but I saw a description of how to do it a while back. A Google search for "sunpci linux" returns a HOWTO near the top of the results (it looks like it has to be a diskless setup). Booting non-Solaris diskless systems from Solaris is certainly possible, as I've done it for OpenBSD on a SPARCstation (though, it just might work on the SunPCi card, too).
The SunPCi cards must be
Gelsinger's Slip is showing (Score:2, Interesting)
Q. Did Steve Jobs make the right chip decision, choosing IBM for his upcoming G5 processor, or will Apple be missing out on some pretty hot Intel technology.
A. I think Steve Jobs has made the wrong CPU choice for 20 years, he just added a few more years to the life of his bad decisions. Steve's not an illogical gu
Re:Gelsinger's Slip is showing (Score:4, Interesting)
This coming from the VP of a company that makes a 64 bit processor that has zero 32-bit backward compatibility?
-pH1nk
Duh... (Score:5, Insightful)
And this is supposed to be at all surprising or interesting?
80286 vs. 68000 and Intel (Score:5, Interesting)
Seriously, I would love to see his
68000:
32-bit instruction set (minimum 16-bit instructions).
32-bit registers.
16-bit ALU.
8 MHz in 1984.
8 general purpose registers, 8 address registers.
80286:
16-bit ALU.
4 16-bit general purpose registers, could be used as 8 8-bit registers.
6-8 MHz in 1984.
I'm not seeing the appeal.
When the 601 came out it also had more than an edge on the Pentium and I sincerely doubt that the Pentium could have emmulated (with its speed, instruction set, and number of registers) the 68k instruction set anywhere close to the speed of the first PowerPCs...
Where exactly is the
Re:80286 vs. 68000 and Intel (Score:1, Informative)
Re:80286 vs. 68000 and Intel (Score:2)
Different tone from 2000 (Score:2, Insightful)
Schwartzland (Score:3, Insightful)
I can understand his fondness for Macs, since OS X is more or less a successor to NextStep. But very few programmers, even at Apple, are fans of the NextStep API. And I'm skeptical as to whether there are as many Mac fans at Sun as he says, or whether this translates into any kind of Sun/Apple synnergy.
Besides, this sort of thing has been tried before. That's why JavaSoft and Taligent were headquartered accross the street from Apple. The clash of egos was always fatal.
Re:Schwartzland (Score:3, Interesting)
That's simply not true. At this year's WWDC, Cocoa was everywhere and developers, both inside and 3rd party were definitely digging in. Most code examples were given in both Cocoa and Carbon (where relevant). Now, Carbon isn't going away, and there are many other choices, but Cocoa has definitely caught on. iPhoto, iMovie, iCal, AddressBook, iSync (and large portions of the Bluetooth stack), iChat, Safari, Quicktime Broadca
Re:Schwartzland (Score:2)
Re:Schwartzland (Score:5, Informative)
After about two years Apple finally killed the Copland project. It was horribly overdue and many of the components were going nowhere. Late in 96 Apple bought NeXT for ?$430m. In January of 97 Steve Jobs was an "advisor" to Apple from the NeXT deal. He was not then actually CEO. Basing Rhapsody (OSX) on NeXTSTEP had been the contingency plan after Copland washed out.
Basing your opinion of the Cocoa/OpenStep API based on the commercial failure of NeXT hardware is a bit ridiculous. The API is not the reason NeXT hardware sold poorly. NeXTStations were expensive, moreso even than the egregiously overpriced Macs of the time. Breaking into a populated market is difficult at best and impossible at worst. NeXT sold expensive computers with remarkable hardware quality and an awesome OS but no killer app.
That has nothing to do with the quality of the OpenStep API however. The OpenStep, now Cocoa, API is well designed and very robust. Play around in GNUStep or Cocoa for a little while sometime. The API is easy to work with and very verbose which requires a lot of typing but in the end makes for very easily understood code. Designed to run inside of a host OS, OpenStep is extraordinarily portable and abstracts as much as possible from the developer. The source code in Building Cocoa Applications: A Step by Step Guide by Simson Garfinkle and Michael Mahoney is nearly identical in every way to the code in NeXTSTEP Programming: Step One written by Simson Garfinkle. A lot of the text of the book regarding the applications themselves is also similar if not identical. The only real changes between the two books are OSX or NeXTSTEP specific topics and explanations. Those same examples will Sun's OpenStep implemantation and GNUStep. How the history of the API somehow invalidates those facts I don't seem to understand. Nor does the history show in any way that developers hate working with it.
Re:Schwartzland (Score:2)
Re:Schwartzland (Score:2)
It's funny -- I got two different responses saying the same thing: "I was at wWDC and everybody there says Cocoa is going to conquer the world!" So you both got blasted by big glossy sales presentations that did exactly what they were supposed to do. That has precisely nothing to do with the quality or acceptance level of an API.
Re: (Score:2)
Sun should have stuck with OPENStep (Score:2, Interesting)
1. Apple had chosen SPARC back when they switch from 68K
2. NeXT had chosen SunOS as it's base instead of BSD/Mach
3. Sun had continued their partnership with NeXT and supported OPENStep on Solaris.
Solaris and OS X could have been ONE! That would've been way cool! Server to desktop
Sigh
-j
Apple partnership with... (Score:2)
Apple just anounced their G5 chip, based very strongly on IBM's Power 4 architecture. like Sun, IBM makes some damn serious hardware for the high-end market.
imagine: no issue
If she the same as a duck... (Score:2)
Re:If she the same as a duck... (Score:2)
Intel and Apple's 20 years of wrong decisions (Score:2)
Re:Sun Partnership? (Score:5, Insightful)
These are two different OS's with two different purposes. OS X is more of a desktop OS and a small server. While Solaris is almost entirely a Server OS designed to run on the big machines and it is ok for a workstation usage. Basically most Sun employees don't like the Intel platform and rather have something different. Also when they are home they are also tired of hacking computers and just want it to work and also have their command line interface.
Re:Sun Partnership? (Score:1)
Isn't it sad when the drugs take over? (Score:1)
Re:Source please... (Score:2, Informative)
And I quote:
As for the Apple connection, Schwartz said that the practically every Sun employee owns an Apple desktop at home.
Re:Evidence of NO Sun/Apple partnership (Score:2)