Wozniak Unveils WozNet 490
dki writes "Steve Wozniak's WozNet is covered in an article at the New York Times today. His company Wheels of Zeus, mentioned previously on Slashdot last year, plans to create wireless networks that use GPS to track clusters of electronic tags within a 1- or 2-mile radius of a base station. The tags "will be able to generate alerts, notifying the owner by phone or e-mail message when a child arrives at school, a dog leaves the yard or a car leaves the parking lot.""
tracking everything (Score:2, Interesting)
wonderful.
I- (Score:2, Funny)
"Remember, Big Woz is watching... and wants you to buy a Segway."
Re:I- (Score:2)
Re:tracking everything (Score:2)
Re:tracking everything (Score:5, Interesting)
You mean like cracking open a phone book and looking under "Schools?" Or did you mean picking up a local tourism brochure and flipping to the "Playgrounds" section? Perhaps even something as evil and insidious as looking up daycare centers on the Internet using YellowPages.com [yellowpages.com]?
Maybe he can find one on their own, somewhere quiet.
Near enough that he/she won't be gone by the time the pervert arrives? "Hey, there's one by itself (boy or girl?) in the trees near Seattle. If I catch the 7:00 commuter flight out of San Diego and make the connection in Chicago, I can be there by
Given the level of fear over people using their credit card numbers on computers connected to the internet,
Bad example. Those "fears" are nothing more than irrational, uneducated, paranoid FUD. The Internet is a far safer place to exercise your credit card than virtually all physical retail outlets.
Re:tracking everything (Score:3, Informative)
That's completely different from what I was getting at, and you know it.
You split my first paragraph, whose sentences are related, so you can criticise the first sentence, just to make a smart comment about it being easy to find
Re:tracking everything (Score:3, Insightful)
The 'protecting the children from rapists' thing is a dumb argument anyway, the large majority of assults are by family members or other trusted non-strangers.
Locator technology will be extremely useful, and as technology advances, difficult to avoid. It does kind of open up some sticky privacy issues, mostly if
Re:tracking everything (Score:3, Insightful)
Consider this: Now the cops can use the GPS ID that you have just supplied to them and they can nail the guy immediately.
Re:I told you so! (Score:3, Insightful)
Seriously, if Bill Gates or Steve Jobs or Donald Trump, etc started something like this, there would be no doubt in ANYONES minds that they had plans to take over the world.
But Woz I can see doing this to keep kids safe, and not allowing the system to be abused.
And no, I hate Mac.
Or another excuse to not pay attention (Score:3, Insightful)
*honk*
Re:tracking everything (Score:5, Insightful)
wonderful.
To my mind, there were only 1 problem with big brother:
The information was not universal. That is, only the government had access. If the general public had access to the same data, it would have been OK. ie. The problem was not that the govenernment had too much data, it was that it did not share it.
I know that sounds crazy to half the
The moniker(sp, sorry) "Big Brother" implies something: they were like family looking out for you. So, yes, this stuff is "Big Brother"ish - but in the sense that you can look out for your family, not that the government can spy on you. You just have to look for the original meaning of the term.
APRS... (Score:2)
http://www.aprs.org/ has more information. The basic premise is that it will broadcast your position peridically encapsulated with AX.25 UI packets over an amateur radio interface. Typically 1200bps AFSK on (I believe) 144.39 MHz. Anyone who wants to can tune in.
I think a major aspect of it in addition to "general availability" is
Re:tracking everything (Score:4, Insightful)
The truth is that nobody cares how many condoms you buy, but if they did, they could find out (or at least the government could). Credit card records, receipts, video, or just going through your trash.
I don't want to live in an aquarium. And putting that aquarium out into the street instead of keeping it in an authorized-access-only place doesn't really help here.
You do live in an aquarium - though the water may be a little murky, all's that's needed for a clear view is a little effort by the owner of the tank. The only reason you want that aquarium in a secure location is because you trust the government or you haven't considered the issue. That sounds like flamebait, but I don't mean it that way - if you can think of a response that doesn't fall into that category, I'd love to hear it.
I'm actually NOT advocating putting cameras on every corner. But there are a lot of cameras around... What I am advocating is that everyone should have access to those cameras that are pointed at public spaces.
Re:tracking everything (Score:3, Insightful)
I think this is a very bad idea for different reasons. a) If these images become public domain, victims of rape, assault, etc. might find they have become some pervert's all time favorite moviestar. b) It might be very useful for criminal activity also. c) If you're worried about companies tracking
Re:tracking everything (Score:5, Insightful)
Re:tracking everything (Score:3, Insightful)
Re:tracking everything (Score:5, Funny)
Oh sure, then everyone will think I just sit around the house all day... Oh, wait...
Re:tracking everything (Score:3, Insightful)
Re:tracking everything (Score:3, Funny)
Can you put it in a kid, or do you need to wait for them to stop growing first?
ALERT!! ALERT!! Your daughter is back at that lowlife-she-calls-a-boyfriends house again!!
Computer, locate shotgun...
interesting... (Score:4, Insightful)
where did I leave my keys? (Score:5, Interesting)
Re:where did I leave my keys? (Score:2, Informative)
Re:where did I leave my keys? (Score:3, Informative)
GPS tracking for your keys wouldn't be terribly useful at that range.
Re:where did I leave my keys? (Score:5, Funny)
my ETrex Vista GPS unit will track things down to 3 ft or so.
I wish I'd had one of these things for tracking my eTrex Vista GPS unit, which I lost last week.
Re:where did I leave my keys? (Score:2)
I suppose that it is. It's also up to YOU to use the device. People are privacy concious are not going to use the system therefore you are fine.
Like any government agency is going to give a shit if M5 driving Joe Richblow is tagging his kids to make sure they get off the bus and make it to school.
where did I leave my base station? (Score:5, Funny)
Maybe I should just forgo material possessions so I can get all my stuff back. It would be easier... and cheaper.
*bork*
This has nothing to do with Apple. (Score:5, Insightful)
If Paul Allen bought a wi-fi company would it be under Microsoft?
Re:This has nothing to do with Apple. (Score:2)
double standards at slashdot (Score:5, Insightful)
Re:double standards at slashdot (Score:5, Insightful)
Re:double standards at slashdot (Score:3, Informative)
RFID tags are applied by a retailer or manufacturer. The consumer has no choice in the matter, and may not be able to remove them.
Once the consumer has purchased the product they can do whatever they want with them.
The WOZ tags, on the other hand, will presumably be bought by individuals who will be able to decide for themselves which items to track, and which to simply ignore.
I don't see why you presume that.
Re:double standards at slashdot (Score:5, Funny)
Re:double standards at slashdot (Score:3, Insightful)
No offense, but... (Score:5, Insightful)
...that's obscenely naive. So what's stopping me from putting one on your car and knowing everywhere you go? What if your wife does it? What if your boss does it? See, there's nothing at all that implies consent here.
I'm sure Woz was trying to do something cool, and believe me I would love to know where my fscking keys and remote are like everyone else, but there are some more nefarious uses that will be among the first applications for the device.
Re:No offense, but... (Score:4, Informative)
So what's stopping me from putting one on your car and knowing everywhere you go?
Or even worse, something like this [cbsnews.com] which happened in my hometown.
Paranoia thy name is siskbc (Score:3, Insightful)
The technology for this has been available for years, to the general public, just not in quite this nice or unified a form.
I'm sure the tech isn't far behind to scan for these little bugs, so why worry?
After all, big brother is watching, so there's no need to panic
Here is what I want to know. (Score:3, Interesting)
That way paranoids or children could just scan their cars/backpacks/whatever for WozNet trackers, and if they find one present, they can pinpoint its location for removal.
I wondered the same thing about RFID tags-- i wouldn't care at all about the privacy problems if once i'd bought it i could take it home and use som
Re:double standards at slashdot (Score:3, Interesting)
It's different if it's a dog, or your wallet, or your handgun. But what if it's a person who maybe doesn't want Mommy to know she drove to her boyfriend's house and has been parked at the local park for the last three hours instead of at the library with her study-buddies?
The lines get grayer.
Re:double standards at slashdot (Score:5, Interesting)
Re:double standards at slashdot (Score:3, Insightful)
Please, let any kids you ever have live some sort of decent childhood.
Re:double standards at slashdot (Score:3, Interesting)
Re:double standards at slashdot (Score:3, Insightful)
Re:double standards at slashdot (Score:3, Funny)
Re:double standards at slashdot (Score:5, Insightful)
RFID's are a tool. As such they can be useful or they can be abused just like any other tool. (cars, pharmaceuticals, guns, databases etc...etc...etc...). What Woz has done is created a paradigm whereby individuals can harness the power of this technology to enable their lives through their own choice as opposed to RFID technology being used without permission or knowledge.
You go Woz!
Re:double standards at slashdot (Score:3, Funny)
I'm suggesting you not attend any meetings where MBA's are present for at least 1 month starting immediately. It is your only hope at this point! Please call me if you need any support through your ordeal.
Re:double standards at slashdot (Score:5, Insightful)
Contrary to popular belief, there are multiple people with differing views posting to slashdot. Seeing these differing views expressed is NOT an indication of hypocrisy, it's an indication of diversity.
Totally different things (Score:3, Informative)
From the reading, wOz chips are intelligent devices that know where they are (remember they are built with a cheap GPS core) - and will only tell selected base stations. Thus only YOU know where or what something is, and have the option to let others know as well (as when linking base sta
Re:double standards at slashdot (Score:3, Funny)
Yes we are!
Oh, wait, I can't disagree with you if we're one homogenous entity.
Now I'm confused. Yes, _now_ I'm one with Slashdot! w00t!
Not a bad thing (Score:5, Interesting)
But this is local tracking, not global tracking, and that makes all the difference. It doesn't lend itself to big databases, cross-correlation, et cetera, and all the big evil things which are made possible with global tracking; it just helps you keep track of your own stuff.
Very cool Woz.
Re:Not a bad thing (Score:2, Insightful)
Overprotective parenting is extremely dangerous for a healthy upbringing.
Re:Not a bad thing (Score:5, Informative)
Kids will always find ways to outsmart their parents. It's called progress!
Re:Not a bad thing (Score:3, Insightful)
First of all, we are forgetting the rule that kids are always smarter than their parents when it comes to computers. Always. Next, enter the fact that kids could construct their own nets and attach a tag somewhere underneath their parents' cars.
Can you say "proximity alert"? Works a helluva lot better with a range of 1 or 2 miles compared to hearing the garage door open.
Re:Not a bad thing (Score:2, Funny)
Re:Not a bad thing (Score:2)
But if you think about it...(and granted I didn't RTFA) how hard would it really be connect all these 'local' tracking stations to a big database, and cross-correlate all of them?
some of both, actually. (Score:2)
Re:Not a bad thing (Score:5, Interesting)
Sure it does...if you missed it, some of the coverage mentioned that multiple base stations can be linked together to provide a "neighborhood watch" function, which is pretty cool. From the sound of it, there's not much to stop you from linking up base stations on a nationwide network...the trick there, of course, is knowing which items you're looking for. Something like this would be great for tracking stolen bicycles, for example. A WozNet tag in the down tube makes it impossible to fuck with, short of cutting apart the frame, thereby ruining it.
You could do some other really cool shit, like keeping track of where bike racers are on a course at any given moment -- which would make more sense to Joe Average than telling him that Lance Armstrong (Vive Le Lance!) has a 35 second lead over Jan Ullrich.
Everyone gets all worried about Big Brother, of course, but Jesus Christ, do you think that the U.S. Government really gives a fuck about where your Trek Madone 5.9 or your limited edition X-Men #500 with the supermegaholographic RealPlatinum(TM) has run off to? Of course not.
If you want your Libertarian minimal-government-involvment society (as many Slashdot posters/readers seem to), you need to have a system in place to police yourself and your belongings. WozNet is one of those.
Re:Not a bad thing (Score:4, Insightful)
No I don't. People can not even be trusted in Sims on line not to be jerks. I like laws. We just have to find the right balance.
Re:Not a bad thing (Score:3, Funny)
I was distressed that Woz, the archetypical computer good guy, drives a Hummer, the archetypical symbol of everything that is wrong with American consumerism. (I can't wait for the "Hummer SR-71 edition", which will deliberately leak fuel onto the pavement while driving at low speeds, to facilitate faster acceleration)
yay, tracking! (Score:2, Interesting)
Yeah, it's a good thing kids don't have those pesky "rights" granted to other americans. God, I'm glad I didn't grow up in woz's brave new world...
Re:yay, tracking! (Score:5, Funny)
Re:yay, tracking! (Score:5, Insightful)
Kids right to privacy from their parents ends where the parents responsibilities to ensure their safety and well being begin.
Re:yay, tracking! (Score:4, Insightful)
Kids right to privacy from their parents ends where the parents responsibilities to ensure their safety and well being begin.
And children are not qualified to judge where this line is. Anyone who thinks that children's privacy shouldn't be subject to parental discretion is not a parent.
Re:yay, tracking! (Score:5, Interesting)
Kids right to privacy from their parents ends where the parents responsibilities to ensure their safety and well being begin.
I would guess you don't know many other parents.
What you mentioned is all fine and good, and perhaps it would be nice to see your kids make it to school all safe and sound from your pc, but don't make the mistake that all parents are as altruistic as you may be. I imagine a great deal of parents will use these as house-arrest devices, tracking every movement of thier kids all the way through 18 years of age. I've met plenty of people who would, so don't tell me that's bullshit. Remember, "Parents responsibilities to ensure safety" are defined by the parents, and there are plenty of morons/assholes out there who will use these devices to some pretty sick ends. I've met some strange people who grew up under very repressive households; I could only imagine how much grief these devices would have added.
Re:yay, tracking! (Score:5, Insightful)
I mean, come on. We can certianly trust children to make life altering and sometimes threatening decisions without our involvement.
Parents have a hard enough time keeping their children alive and well until they are past puberty (the age of bad decisions) and a little into their more stable years without adding jibes about how kids today are not much more than slaves.
I'm not saying I'd use Woz's service - I don't know, my children aren't old enough to be on their own. But you shouldn't dismiss it because it does have some potentially bad abuses.
Of course, you might have a double standard there. Perhaps you think it's ok to have file sharing even though it can be used in the commision of crimes, but not an object tracking service because it could be used in the commision of crimes?
I could understand your consternation if this tool only had bad uses, or was designed primarily for 'bad' purposes (ie, the handgun is a weapon whose primary design and use is killing or disabling human beings, but it does have other purposes, such as target practise so you can become better at killing humans instead of just disabling them - but it can be used in both offense and defense) but you can't claim that the service is a bad thing and will bring about Aldus Huxley's futurific version of reality.
We are a tool using species. Don't bemoan the tool, bemoan the uses.
-Adam
Succumbed to the Dark Side, Woz has.... (Score:2, Interesting)
the insidious uses outweigh these 10000 to 1.
Total (location) information awareness.
I feel safer already...
Kremvax
Re:Succumbed to the Dark Side, Woz has.... (Score:2)
Woz vs Joy (Score:5, Insightful)
This is exactly how I see Woz's latest project. It sounds like something that has FAR more potential to be invasive and violating than it does to be useful. I'm a bit surprised, actually--Woz has always struck me as doing weird but cool stuff, not nasty stuff.
Anyways, it seems a sad day when one of the proto-geeks is forgetting to look at what he's actually doing from a larger perspective.
Re:Woz vs Joy (Score:3, Insightful)
I never said that I agreed with Bill's view that we Must Stop Research in some fields, for the very same reason that you stated: It's going to happen. You can't stop it. If you try to prevent it, then it will likely be developed by the WORST group to have that sort of power, whatever it is.
That said, I do still believe that as technologists, we have a moral responsibility to at least look at the research we do. We can't stop it, but if we see the potential for danger, then we can potentially sidetrack
Slashdotter Internal Conflict (Score:5, Funny)
2) But Steve Wozniak did this! Steve Wozniak is really cool and non-evil!
**head explodes**
Think of the possibilities... (Score:5, Funny)
For those who don't like to register: (Score:5, Informative)
Macworld has a pretty decent article [macworld.com]
Cryptonomican bemoans the lack of information about security [cryptonomicon.net]
Google has the goods [google.com]
And there's even an article on Slashdot [slashdot.org] about it...
Last time I looked at it it was essentially a watch with both GPS and GSM (phone) built in so one could get the location of the watch at any time through their service. Sounds like a potentail DOS atack, though, if you obtain phone numbers or cell phone connection information (jamming signals, jamming GPS, etc)
Plus, since all the power is being used by the phone and GPS (chances are good the actual GPS processing is done elsewhere, like in the current E991 GPS services offered by phones) then it's unlikely that much encryption is being done at all.
-Adam
Best of luck, be careful (Score:4, Insightful)
The arguments for and against such tracking devices have been hashed out several gazillion times here on /., so I'll spare the replay, but there's one important difference here: this is Woz. He's no starry-eyed upstart CEO or engineering student; he's one of geekhood's geekiest, and he knows what he's doing (certainly as far as the tech end of things are concerned.) I think that he stands a good chance of making this thing work. It's exciting and frightening to think about.
Best of luck, Woz. Please be careful.
WOZ, dont do it! (Score:2)
If anyone should see the handwriting on the wall is him..
*shakes head in disgust*
The possibilities for abuse are endless... (Score:4, Insightful)
1) Police put tracking devices on you... If anyone can get them, who's to say it was the police...
2) A stalker plants one in the victim's purse...
3) An election campaign plants them on the opposition's sign crew...
4) Agents provocateurs carry them in protests, making it so much easier to co-ordinate them...
5) You neighbour plants one on you, and calls the tipline whenever you happen to go through a bad neighbourhood, or near a mosque, hoping to get a reward...
And many more...
Easy to defeat. (Score:2)
Re:The possibilities for abuse are endless... (Score:3, Insightful)
7) A group of people in a forest will be able to stay together easier, and thus be able to explore more.
8) Pets could be less likely to be lost.
9) Marathon runners could be tracked by audiences.
10) Parents could keep track of young kids in a store.
Overreacting much? (Score:3, Insightful)
I am aware that /. does not speak with one voice, but the general values expressed by its members are odd. If it is something that can be used for violating privacy (but hasn't) it is feared, but if something is used for piracy ALOT, it should be considered good regardless of the illegal nature of its use because it has non-infringing uses.
By the way, children have no right to privacy from their parents.
that's one out of three... (Score:2, Funny)
The good, the bad, and the Woz (Score:3, Insightful)
Just like everything Woz comes up with, I don't think it's fair to call this a "good" or a "bad" thing yet.
Right away I'm sure the privacy guys are jumping up and down, and I can't say I blame them. This chip would make it a complete bitch to hook class and/or work.
BUT at the same time, it'd be real nice to hide one of these suckers in my car (I know lowjack exists, but from the article it appears this tech will deliver much better performance) in case it would get stolen. Throwing these things in handhelds and laptops could also be a godsend. Hey, those things are about the size of a keychain, no more looking for your keys ever again.
Again, it's not possible now, or maybe ever to render judgment on this technology. However, Woz better be damn sure to regulate who can and can't locate said devices (how many men want their wives/girlfriends to know their every moves?). 100 years from now we'll look back at Woz as one of the great innovators of our time
If it can be used to "protect the children".... (Score:2)
It really sickens me that human larvae cause us to lose all our rights. If they're so precious, stick them in a safety deposit b
Re:If it can be used to "protect the children".... (Score:2)
You are quite clueless.
Can you say CIRCUMVENTION? (Score:5, Insightful)
I can BET that once those tags are out kids will figure out how to fool them. The simplest thing comes to mind right away.... Because the system tracks TAGS and not KIDS, young ones figure out a good scheme: give the tag to a "keeper" for few classes and then skip school. Once you come back, pick up the tag from the keeper and go home without attending school, all while the parents think their loved one is learning.
Same thing with the dog... Bet someone soon would yell out:
"Honey come quick, I think sparky died under this tree, he has not been moving for 4 hours already.." Just moments before learning that the tag lies in a pile of poo after Sparky ate it and then... well.. put it out throug the other end.
Re:Can you say CIRCUMVENTION? (Score:4, Interesting)
Just wrap tinfoil around it, or better yet, slam it against every wall you walk past. Eventually it'll get too expensive to replace, and the old fashioned methods of checking up on your own kids yourself and becoming involved in their lives will again become common.
-Adam
How long..? (Score:3, Insightful)
Yes, each cluster is locally administered, not by a large agency, but there's nothing saying that implementations of the pager/SMS/email must require cc:jashcroft@doj.gov...
Food for thought.
Many uses (Score:4, Funny)
Activate shock collar? Yes/No
You have chosen Yes. Spot has returned to the yard.
Your son Scott has driven the car to a remote location with Susie L. (Ref. # 1098345723) and has entered the back seat with her, probably to screw her brains out.
Administer punishment? Yes/"HELL yes!"
Re:Many uses (Score:3, Funny)
how the hell am I supposed to feel about this? (Score:3, Funny)
Immovable object, meet irresistable force.
my brain hurts! HELP!!! CALL -151!
Location Aware Devices (Score:3, Interesting)
It will also function as a lo-jack device for small and expensive personal stuff: laptops, ipods, cell phones, etc.
Did they figure out weak signal GPS though? If not, then the device will not work indoors and will severely limit its applications.
Sweet. (Score:4, Funny)
Is this so bad? (Score:4, Informative)
Clarification (Score:3, Informative)
2) Both incidents occured while I was at work. (And I assure you, you don't know what helpless frustration is until you get a call from your wife telling you in panic mode that the baby is missing -- and you're an hour away from home!)
3) All those people saying "bad parenting" have obviously never been responsible fo
there's already technology for that problem (Score:4, Informative)
I have three small children^W escape artists and this stops them cold.
And no posts about how terrible a parent this person is, kids wait until you're in the bathroom to pull these stunts off.
Woz is the beast! (Score:5, Funny)
W = 23
O = 15
Z = 26
Total = 64
The original Apples used 6502 processors.
Number of years past since his last professional beard trim : 5
We remove the 5 from 6502 and that leaves us with 602.
602 + 64 = 666 !
How about firefighters? (Score:4, Interesting)
So.. I'm a bad boy.. (Score:3, Interesting)
Wozniak and Gibson (Score:3, Insightful)
The most intriguing aspect of all the back-and-forth in the debate is that it is not demonstrable that either side is wrong. What the article in the Times shows is only the prototype of a short-range locator device with the potential for information transfer.
As an examination of William Gibson's work reveals, the problem is one of increasing efficiency and efficacy in that as the technologies behind the technology become more sophisticated--as the devices become smaller and achieve greater range, information-transfer potential and ubiquity--their potential usefulness and their potential for danger can only increase.
William Gibson's main perception in one of his least-enjoyable stories, 'The Gernsbach Continuum,' contains the central idea of his one of his most important themes: 'the street finds it's own uses for things.'
Gibson's greatest perceptions is that technical innovations in the use and shaping of society in unpredictable ways that the creators of the technology can't foresee and can't consider as the humble telephone pager illustrates.
Originally, the pager allowed busy people to whom other people needed access to get out of their offices and hospitals. It freed doctors and lawyers to either live more life or get more done. The unpredictable, socially transformative downside of the technology entered into the equation the moment it became available to the masses.
Among the many changes that the spread of pager technology made was that it made drug-dealers a lot safer and set the police new problems: instead of having to stay in one place where they and their contacts could be subject to observation or chained to specific telephone landlines that could be tapped by law-enforcement agencies, the pager cut the link between the drug-dealer and his territory and allowed street-level dealers to arrange meetings with their clients in locations of their own choosing.
This phenomenon was the source of a small but very real transformation in society as the rise of cheap pagers changed things. A block of Motorola circuitry in a casing, changed society; it changed the notion of presence and absence and leisure time and physical distance. It changed the law and investigative procedure, the notion of privacy and tens of other things that no one had any tiniest inkling might spring up from using radio receivers attached to a POTs telephone system to transmit phone numbers.
As it concerns the debate here, it is easy to see that the notes talking about pedophiles are actually a valid cause of concern as are a thousand other things that are just as wonderful as the police's finding a lost child and just as dangerous as a pedophile's doing the same that we'll just have to wait for.
Re:I need more coffee... (Score:2)
Re:I need more coffee... (Score:2)
Nope, just you, you sick bastard.
Re:now that i'm a parent. (Score:3, Insightful)
who can afford to set up the network? (Score:3, Interesting)
Sounds perfect for Homeland Security funding.
Well, if one is going to sell out, it's reasonable to get the best price one can.
Apparently Wozniak was far more unhappy about not becoming a billionaire like others far less talented in technology than he ever told the press.
I remember looking into an IWM (integrated woz machine) on an Apple II design and seeing a work of engineering art.
Times have changed.