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Software Businesses Apple

Casady & Greene Says "Goodnight" 95

Posted by pudge from the back-in-my-day-we-had-third-party-software-and-we-liked-it dept.
powderhound writes "Longtime Mac software publisher Casady & Greene have said their final 'Goodnight.' The publisher of many notable Mac titles such as SpellCatcher, InfoGenie, iData, and Glider Pro, have decided to close the doors on July 3rd. Their web site contains the details of their decision. They will be sorely missed."
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Casady & Greene Says "Goodnight" More

Casady & Greene Says "Goodnight"

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  • Rêves doux. (Score:5, Informative)

    by Justen ( 517232 ) * on Tuesday July 01, 2003 @01:45PM (#6341628) Homepage Journal
    Cassady & Greene truly marketed some of the most innovative programs on the Mac. Conflict Catcher rightly earned all of the awards (and hearts) it did over the years. And Cassady & Greene is arguably the grandmother of Apple's "digital hub" strategy: iTunes was borne of SoundJam Pro [216.239.53.100], originally marketed by C&G. (The original developers of iTunes now work for Apple.)

    It's been great.

    Goodnight.

    justen

    • Re:Rêves doux. (Score:1, Insightful)

      by Anonymous Coward
      (The original developers of iTunes now work for Apple.)
      Wow! Who'd have thought?!

    • Re:Rêves doux. (Score:5, Insightful)

      by Elderly Isaac ( 667024 ) <old_ike@hotmail.com> on Tuesday July 01, 2003 @02:02PM (#6341830)
      They must have gotten a pretty penny for SoundJam. C&G had to realize that, with OS X making Conflict Catcher obsolete, SoundJam was their future. Or did they really expect Glider Pro carbon to sell like hotcakes?

      I've been scratching my head about C&G's business strategy and expecting this day ever since OS X was announced.

      • Re:Rêves doux. (Score:5, Insightful)

        by Huge Pi Removal ( 188591 ) * <oliver+slashdot@watershed.co.uk> on Tuesday July 01, 2003 @05:39PM (#6344247) Homepage
        They seemed to put a lot of effort into iData, which was probably pretty damn innovative, but no-one seemed to want. Shame. It will soon, however, be offered for free [coastalfog.net].

        They had a raft of OS X utils, but not necessarily ones you'd pay for (e.g. Clone'X: there's freeware/shell commands that do the same thing). I think more importantly, they were a very "morally sound" company, almost to the extent of being complete hippies... but damn cool coding hippies :) Their attitude will probably be missed more than their final software offerings.
      • Actually, all C&G did was distribute Soundjam. They were not the developers of it. So while I'm sure C&G got *something* from the sale of Soundjam to Apple, I doubt it was a pretty penny, and it wouldn't surprise me if that was one of the big reasons this is happening now.

    • Re:Rêves doux. (Score:3, Insightful)

      by cait56 ( 677299 )

      I bought and received great satisfaction from both Conflict Catcher and SoundJam Pro.

      So it is sad to see Cassady & Greene's departure.

      But I'm not going to complain about the fact that a) Conflict Catcher is no longer needed and b) Apple bought SoundJam for everyone.

    • Boy does that bring back memories. Shortly after Apple purchased SoundJam they have away copies in a lottery at WWDC (2000.) There were a few good prizes, but every one I know won a copy of SoundJam. Bummer for me as I had just anted up for a full copy a few months before WWDC 2000.

  • Crystal Quest ruled (Score:5, Interesting)

    by dozer ( 30790 ) on Tuesday July 01, 2003 @01:49PM (#6341662)
    Crystal Quest used the mouse better than any other game until the FPSes came along. That was a fun game.

    As for the rest of the stuff C&G published, well, I never needed any of it...

  • Did Apple kill them? (Score:5, Interesting)

    by gamgee5273 ( 410326 ) on Tuesday July 01, 2003 @02:02PM (#6341837) Journal
    I was one of the first Mac users out of my circle of friends and coworkers to use SoundJam (in fact, my 6500/225 still has it installed). I can understand why Apple bought it and turned it into iTunes, but I almost wonder if, when they bought it, did Apple kill C&G?

    After OS X came out, I stopped using Conflict Catcher, too (which, yes, is still on my 6500).

    Just thinking this through: Apple definitely dealt a mjor blow buying SoundJam off of C&G, but does anyone think of C&G as an OS X developer?

    Oh, well. Farewell, C&G. We'll miss you.

    • Just as Apple innovated itself out of a crisis they could have come up with stuff that still is badly needed on the Mac.

      Like: Even with FfmpegX, OSEX, 42 and the MissingWhateverToolsStuff the whole DVD-ripping-DivX-VCD-area on the Mac still needs some professional software company to engage in that field. This thing is the only I envy Windows-PC users for. They have some good easy to use and fast apps.

      • I would respond by making a statement about dada, Mr. Breton, but it would be silly to make a statement about dada. ;)

        Anyhow, I agree with you except that DivX isn't good example. It's just not something that I see standing the test of time. I know OS X users who are heavily into burning VCDs from DivX, but they are ones with more Unix experience and are willing to mess around in dark areas more than some (like you and, admittedly, me). But there is still voodoo and mystery surrounding it, and I don't

        • "except that DivX isn't good example. It's just not something that I see standing the test of time."

          Hehe, I see your point, but note that DVD player makers are starting to support some DivX formats (I say "starting" because it seems to not working that perfectly well). And then some stuff only comes as DivX (or Xvid or whatever) and I want to watch it. Two years ago that was really a problem on my old slow iMac. PC users laughed at me and rightly so.

          "[...] know OS X users who are heavily into burning VCD

          • Let me rephrase that: would you put a company who's finances were in C&G's shape into a grey legal area?

            If you run a larger software house, maybe you can handle a lawsuit (if it occurs), but C&G was just too small to handle such a risky proposition.

            I've not looked at their finances, but I hope that they're treating their employees better than a company forced into bankruptcy from a lawsuit.

            It's all a question of politics and cash...I can't blame C&G for playing it safe, even though I would

    • but does anyone think of C&G as an OS X developer?

      Certainly C&G doesn't.

    • I believe C&G not keeping up to date with the development of the Mac OS market was the main problem. If Conflict Catcher is outdated on OS X then they should have developed another flagship product for the new market. Just my thoughts.
    • I think that they were a bit too slow joining the OSX bandwagon, and many of their old properties, such as Conflict Catcher, were tied pretty tightly to the old OS. And some features were added by other applications that obviated the need for some of their utilities. For example, Word and Mail now do on-the-fly spell checking and underline typos. This isn't quite as cool as Spellcatcher's instantaneous hash-driven spell checking, but it is close enough.

  • Sad to see them go (Score:5, Interesting)

    by Nick of NSTime ( 597712 ) on Tuesday July 01, 2003 @02:02PM (#6341846)
    I lament the passing of the old-guard Mac publishers. Some are reborn, some fade away forever, and some are eulogized [panic.com].

    I think as Mac OS X becomes more ubiquitous, we'll witness a renaissance of Mac development and publishing. It's already showing with products like Transmit and Hydra (to name just a couple).

    • I'm nitpicking, but Transmit (formerly Transit) is older than OS X.

      That being said, the OS X development renaissance is already in full bloom, in my opinion. It's a great and fun platform to develop for.
      • You're right, Transmit is older than OS X. I actually used it on OS 9. What I was trying to say was that Transmit is an application that substantially improves the Mac OS X experience. That's not just buzz-speak; I find Transmit to be the best FTP app ever, and its OS X version is gold.
    • And others rise in their place: Omni Group [omnigroup.com] has risen to the top in terms of Mac OS X software developers. OmniGraffle is about as much of a Cocoa experience as you can get!

  • why? (Score:5, Interesting)

    by trillian42 ( 674714 ) on Tuesday July 01, 2003 @02:04PM (#6341862)
    I'm pretty new to the Mac world -- an OS X convert... so I've never heard of these guys. But it sounds like the timing might have followed that of the introduction of the new OS. Was their inability to keep going due to something about OS X?

    I love this operating system, but I sometimes wonder how much all the goodies that come with it (X11, iTunes, iPhoto, iChat, Safari, Mail.app, Address Book.app, and iCal are all in my Dock) are hurting independent developers who innovated for the platform before Apple got around to incorporating those functions into the OS.

    • Re:why? (Score:5, Interesting)

      by jellomizer ( 103300 ) on Tuesday July 01, 2003 @02:18PM (#6342020)
      Well that is a tough call. A lot of these smaller companies are going out of business because their main focus was making products that filled the gap of the OS. Say a lack of an IM client or a calendar. Now that Apple is coming back they are putting more functionality in their OS to be competitive. So a lot of little guys may be wiped out because they worked on fixing all the small missing apps that the OS should have. I don't think that Apple was trying to find a way to kill the little development companies but it just happened because they were trying to make a better product. As a small software company you have to keep in mind of what you nitch market is, and change when you see you nitch expanding to other competition. So you will have to find a way to transaction to a new type of nitch.
      • This is quite true; it's also why so many companies have abandoned "small software" and moved to enterprise or vertical market software.

        The companies not working on large-scale applications are providing apps that offer familiar functionality (like text editing) but with additional features.

      • Re:why? (Score:2, Funny)

        by piecewise ( 169377 )
        A good point, because it truly isn't Apple fault these independent software developers are going out of business. Apple's simply improving their own product with features it *should* have.

        Why, that'd be like blaming Microsoft for putting out similar companies simply because Microsoft is constantly striving to improve Windows' features and functionality.


        Oh, wait.. Well, no wonder there's so much more independent/shareware programs out there for Windows! ;-)

    • Why? Because of OSX (Score:5, Insightful)

      by ihatewinXP ( 638000 ) on Tuesday July 01, 2003 @03:34PM (#6342948)
      Honestly before I saw this article I had not thought about them in years. Aside from the story of SoundJam C&G (which was really OS9) C&G have been absolutely quiet on the OSX front since its release.

      OSX killed Extension Manager by way of UNIX, SoundJam by way of buyout, and Spellchecker with built in Cocoa services. All three, but _especially_ extension manager, were near necessities when we were dealing with an extension plauged, mp3 starved, clusterfuck of a system.

      So to answer your question: a resounding "yes." OSX killed Cassidy & Greene along with C&G's innability to innovate and capitalize on a system change that they saw coming _years_ in advance (remember Rhapsody? they do).

      Their Extension Manager was priceless in my converting to MacOS from Windows, and it is still one of the few applications I have ever paid for.
      • C&G made Conflict Catcher, which was a beefed up extension manager. "Extension Manager" per se was the default manager included in the Mac OS.

      • Re:Why? Because of OSX (Score:2, Interesting)

        by api ( 112263 )
        "OSX killed Extension Manager by way of UNIX, SoundJam by way of buyout, and Spellchecker with built in Cocoa services."

        Not so fast. C&G SpellCatcher, formerly Thunder 7 is an excellent, unique app that Cocoa services fail to replace because so few applications use Cocoa services. In-line red-squiggle spell checking has changed some things but does little for spell checking the text box I am writing into right now. SpellCatcher captures all text input and can log it if you want to snoop/document. What

        • Re:Why? Because of OSX (Score:3, Informative)

          by PCM2 ( 4486 )
          In-line red-squiggle spell checking has changed some things but does little for spell checking the text box I am writing into right now.
          I guess it's time for you to switch to Safari. In Apple's browser, all you have to do is right click on the text box and select "Check Spelling As You Type."

        • HyperSpell (Score:4, Informative)

          by kuwan ( 443684 ) on Tuesday July 01, 2003 @06:34PM (#6344698) Homepage

          Not so fast. C&G SpellCatcher, formerly Thunder 7 is an excellent, unique app that Cocoa services fail to replace because so few applications use Cocoa services.

          That's what HyperSpell [kuwan.net] is for. It lets you access OS X's spellchecker from any application, and it's free.

          --
          This post checked with HyperSpell

        • Maybe if we went back in time and told C&G that cocoa services would be shit and that the promise of system wide spell checking would still be a pipe dream 3 years later then they would have developed _something_ for the OSX arena. In my eyes the promise of system wide spell checking through built in cocoa services (at that point called YellowBox ;) probably had a very big influence on their decision to not update SpellCatcher.

          But that promise is eeking its way into existence. Using OmniWeb there would

  • i have to wonder (Score:5, Interesting)

    by burns210 ( 572621 ) <maburns@gmail.com> on Tuesday July 01, 2003 @04:10PM (#6343406) Homepage Journal
    if apple is shooting itself with the many free programs that come bundled with macos X... The whole sherlock vs. watson thing, where apple made a product VERY similar to a competing program, or their new font management system in Jaguar, which someone said "companies made a living off of", and now that business is gone, integrated into the macos. Jaguar is awesome, and the software that comes with it is top notch, but when do you draw the line between building software in house, and relying on developers to write software for you?

    • Re:i have to wonder (Score:4, Insightful)

      by berniecase ( 20853 ) * on Tuesday July 01, 2003 @05:30PM (#6344188) Homepage Journal
      That's a good question to ask. I think it has something to do with the market saturation that Apple has. It leaves a lot of people wondering why Apple would want to possibly alienate developers considering how small its share of the market is.

      Microsoft has frequently added more and more programs to its arsenal, and has its market share dropped? Nope. Perhaps Apple thinks the same will be true of their efforts. I can only hope so. I see more and more people coming over to the Mac platform, from Windows. This can only be a Good Thing(TM) for Apple.

    • Re:i have to wonder (Score:5, Interesting)

      by faust2097 ( 137829 ) on Tuesday July 01, 2003 @05:58PM (#6344409)
      their new font management system in Jaguar, which someone said "companies made a living off of", and now that business is gone, integrated into the macos

      as much as I liked C&G, I am not a fan of Extensis. Their updates were continuously late, often buggy and their support was spotty at best. Entire companies used to have to wait months for OS upgrades because they were waiting for new versons of Suitcase. They've gotten their act more together recently but their acquisition of Diamondsoft just seems anticompetitive to me. Besides, Apple hasn't improved their font management at all since they added the font folder back in OS 8 (or was it 9?), it was due for an overhaul.

      Now I just need to save up for OpenType fonts to replace my old Type 1s.

      • Re:i have to wonder (Score:3, Informative)

        by Hes Nikke ( 237581 )
        Apple hasn't improved their font management at all since they added the font folder back in OS 8 (or was it 9?), it was due for an overhaul.
        it was System 7.0 (or maybe 7.1) and i agree the OS X system needed an overhaul, but the classic system worked just fine.

      • Re:i have to wonder (Score:3, Interesting)

        by Phroggy ( 441 ) *
        Besides, Apple hasn't improved their font management at all since they added the font folder back in OS 8 (or was it 9?), it was due for an overhaul.

        It was 7.1.

        Prior to System 7.0, fonts were resources inside the System suitcase which could only be managed via applications like Font/DA Mover, or ResEdit and similar. In 7.0, the System suitcase could be opened in the Finder, which showed the fonts, sounds and keyboard layouts it contained. Each of these could be dragged out of the System suitcase into a
        • I remember these days. Shoving fonts in font suitcases to get around the 128 font limit (being too lazy/poor/whatever to buy a font manager). But we were glad that we didn't need to restart the computer to get the fonts to be recognized.

          We didn't have no stinkin' Extensions Manager...that showed up in System 7.5 (it was available separately before then, it wasn't an Apple product). We either ponied up for Conflict Catcher (which is still the better Extensions Manager), or we just move stuff manually out of
        • Wow.
          I am not alone.
          yes, ResEdit and making simple changes like these were what made the Mac a great learning experience to me, allowing me to get whatever work i needed done, yet also allowing me to play around with the system when i felt so inclined.
          Unlike dealing with PCs of the time, which were generally the other way around...play with it go get things to work, and get some work done if the computer felt so inclined....
          =/

        • About those font resources, do you remember that it was also possible to put fonts in applications instead of the system file, using Font/DA mover? Those fonts would be only accessible to the patched application itself, of course. If I remember correctly you could still do this in System 7.

          JP

          • About those font resources, do you remember that it was also possible to put fonts in applications instead of the system file, using Font/DA mover? Those fonts would be only accessible to the patched application itself, of course. If I remember correctly you could still do this in System 7.

            You can do it with ResEdit; I wasn't aware that Font/DA Mover would let you copy a font into an application, but perhaps so. Actually, you can put font resources into a document that will be opened by the application -
    • I see what you're saying. The Watson thing was kind of sketchy, but I think the new system font management is long over due. Previously, you bought a Mac and then really Had to buy other software to get it to do work it's supposed to do out of the box. It was (is) the graphic design computer - you have to be able to work with gobs of fonts. I've got 3 CDs full of fonts, you simply can't just load 'em all up and expect OS 9 to live.

      Conflict Catcher was the same way. It was necessary, but shouldn't have been
    • "[...] their new font management system in Jaguar, which someone said "companies made a living off of", and now that business is gone, integrated into the macos."

      The existing font managing tools are so terrible, terrible, terrible I just can't believe it. No way to use them effectivly. I just pray that Apple got it right and that it will work on my old slow Mac. I have a 400 Mhz G3 with 576 MB RAM and plenty of free diskspace, but all solutions choked on my ~5000 fonts. I don't want to use them all at once

    • Re:i have to wonder (Score:1, Insightful)

      by Anonymous Coward
      Jaguar is awesome, and the software that comes with it is top notch, but when do you draw the line between building software in house, and relying on developers to write software for you?

      When the developers drop the fucking ball.

      Why do we have, for example, fax built in to Panther? Because third-party fax solutions sucked out loud. Why do we have FontBook? Because Suitcase sucked out loud. Why do we have iTunes? Because nobody else built anything like it. Why do we have Sherlock? Because Watson sucked...

  • dealings with C&G (Score:5, Interesting)

    by presearch ( 214913 ) * on Tuesday July 01, 2003 @05:56PM (#6344390)
    We contacted them when we were looking for a publisher.
    They wanted 85%, wanted to delay payments to us for up to 180 days,
    if they wanted new "features" either we had to implement them or
    they would pay to have it done and -we- would have the cost deducted
    from royalties. We said no thanks.

    When talking to them, the SoundJam/iTunes thing happened a few months earlier
    and I asked the guy about it. He said that Apple approached them,
    with a fixed price. They advised them to take it, or get buried by an Apple product.
    He wouldn't say how much they got, but it wasn't a huge number, plus they had
    to relinquish the programmers as part of the deal. I like Apple, and I like iTunes
    and what it's become, but Apple sort of rolled over them and they never recovered.
    • I like Apple, and I like iTunes and what it's become, but Apple sort of rolled over them and they never recovered.
      Based on your other comments, it sounds like it couldn't have happened to nicer guys. Or more fair-dealing businessmen.

      • Re:dealings with C&G (Score:2, Informative)

        by Anonymous Coward
        I had the unfortunate luck to work for them in their summer intern program. Learned a lot about software companies like theirs that has made me steer clear of them ever since.
    • He said that Apple approached them,
      with a fixed price. They advised them to take it, or get buried by an Apple product.
      He wouldn't say how much they got, but it wasn't a huge number, plus they had
      to relinquish the programmers as part of the deal. I like Apple, and I like iTunes
      and what it's become, but Apple sort of rolled over them and they never recovered
      From other sources [thinksecret.com], including an interview with C&G Vice President Bonnie Mitchel in the Wall Street Journal, it sounds as if you are badly mistake

  • Sad but... (Score:4, Informative)

    by coolmacdude ( 640605 ) on Tuesday July 01, 2003 @09:30PM (#6345829) Homepage Journal
    C&G were giants on OS 9. They had many award winning products some of which I used. However, I haven't heard anything about them in the last few years. Aside from Soundjam becoming iTunes, they haven't really had one breakout product since the transition to OS X. I had thought they just dissolved a while ago since I had not heard of them in so long. Sad to see them go, but they really didn't have much invested in the X software arena.

  • Glider Pro... (Score:1, Interesting)

    by PowerMacG4 ( 575064 )
    I still have my Glider Pro CD
    Brings back memories
    /me cries
  • who will catch all my conflicts now :'-(

  • My summer job at C&G (Score:5, Interesting)

    by superflippy ( 442879 ) on Wednesday July 02, 2003 @09:23AM (#6349299) Homepage Journal
    I worked for Casady & Greene one summer during college. I typed product registration info into the database, answered phones, beta tested, stuck labels on disks (OK, that should date me), whatever needed to be done. Working there was great - everyone really was like family, and the programmers' dedication to their craft was inspiring. I was always amazed that software created in a little storefront next to the pizza parlor in my neighborhood was so globally popular (my friends in college played Crystal Quest and Glider).

    Some random memories of C&G:
    - Seeing my first IBM computer with a full-color monitor and GUI. The PC tech support guy was amused that I thought all IBM's had green screens.
    - Beta testing a paint program that simulated natural media. It was at least as good as Aldus SuperPaint, the Mac favorite at the time, but for some reason I never heard of it again.
    - The intraoffice instant messaging system that one of the programmers built. Everyone spent so much time sending messages to each other, the boss shut it down after just a few days.

  • open source, .mac, osx (Score:5, Informative)

    by Kerouassady ( 550624 ) on Wednesday July 02, 2003 @11:18AM (#6350539)
    All these things were the downfall of Casady and Greene. We still use Spell Catcher X on our photographers' laptops because Adobe hasn't put a spell check into the File Info window and our photographers are the kind that need a spell check on their captions. There was a place they filled a gap. Spell Catcher X is really a powerful tool and far beyond just a spell checker. That is an example of how to add value to a software that's previous functionality has been subsumed by the growth of the OS.

    I always waited for Conflict Catcher to do the same. There was room for it. It would have need to be completely rewritten, but the basic concept is sound (looking for conflicts). If they'd had found a way to do a Clean-Install System/User Merge under OS 10, CC would have easily regained its throne.

    I don't think C&G had the reources or maybe even the dedication to make the kind of investment leap to really make their tools valuable for OS 10 users. Between the explosion of freeware apps and open source projects, and cheap hosting on .Mac or free from Sourceforge, the competition just exploded. That's why, as an independent publisher or developer, you really have to inovate if you still want to make a living off shareware.

    They were always more a publisher than developer, so and with resources like Sourceforge and .Mac, and the popularity of sites like Versiontracker and MacUpdate, the necessity of a developer needing a publisher has drastically reduced.

    At least most of their developers have taken their software with them.

  • speaking of Glider (Score:3, Informative)

    by zephc ( 225327 ) on Wednesday July 02, 2003 @02:58PM (#6352522)
    if anyone still has a Newton 2K or 2001 and wants to play Glider, a friend of mine ported it, its available here [sealiecomputing.com]. Send him some $$ if u get it, he's getting married soon and u know how that goes :)
    • Glider is really cool, but what is the name of the song that plays in the background? I can't find a reference to it anywhere. And just when I thought it was just "The Glider Song", one of my kid's toys plays it, too.
  • Did you ever get the sense that Conflict Catcher was causing crashes? Or did you ever do a conflict test, and go through umpteen restarts, and it seemed like you were definitively and reproducibly narrowing down the cause of the crash to one culprit, but after the very last restart of the test, when everything had been disabled except the last suspect, you didn't get the crash/non-crash that you were expecting -- rendering the whole test worthless?

    One trick I did with CC was a "reverse psychology" test: ra

  • Mission: Thunderbolt (Score:2, Interesting)

    by Figz ( 217203 )
    Mission: Thunderbolt was/is a great game. I fired up Classic yesterday to play it again, for old-times sake. But I realized, I only have version 1.0. Does anyone know where I can get version 1.0.6? Share your memories about Mission: Thunderbolt here. I'll never forget the Icky Lumps, Giant Tentacular Horrors, Two-Headed Radioactive Swamp Creatures, Snagglepusses, Floating Eyes, Needlenoses, Bug-Eyed Monsters, Many-Armed Things......

  • Possible last sale? (Score:1, Interesting)

    by Anonymous Coward
    Is there any place where I can buy a copy of Glider Pro X? I played Glider 4 long time ago and it's the reason I tried to get a Mac while I was still in middle school.
  • Anyone remember "K.I.S.S." (Keep It Simple Spreadsheet?) A failure, to be sure, but a noble one. Spreadsheets got completely ossified around, oh, 1992 or so. Various innovative ideas were tried (MUSE, Javelin, oh heck what was the NeXTstep-based one? Improv. Even Wingz had some interesting ideas in it).

    K.I.S.S. had a really bad name. I bought it at MacWorld. I'm just geeky enough to be intimidated by attractive women ten years younger than me, so I couldn't bring myself to say something like "I want a KISS
    • Yeah, I remember that! It used flowcharts instead of @FORMULAS(). The developer (an aquaintance) showed it at macworld and I took a demo home. (didn't buy it)

      Seemed like a good idea at the time, but I didn't have much use for spreadsheets then.. Nowadays, I think the 'helper' features in excel probably make things something near easy enough, i.e. you can press a single button to sum a row.

      All of those spreadsheets you mention have interesting features. There's so little innovation these days. When

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