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Portables (Apple) Businesses Apple Hardware

New iBooks and Apple Store 132

Posted by pudge from the mmmm-istore dept.
Vokbain writes "Apple just released new 800 and 900 MHz iBooks, and unveiled a redesigned Apple Store as well." Looks kinda cluttered to me.
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New iBooks and Apple Store More

New iBooks and Apple Store

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  • this is great news (Score:3, Funny)

    by hkon ( 46756 ) on Tuesday April 22, 2003 @07:20AM (#5780029) Homepage
    I think I speak for a lot of Apple fans when I say "YEEESSSS!!! This rocks!!! It's absolutely brilliant!! Steve Jobs, you're my hero!!! This just shows Apple's ability to reinvent the computer industry in a way that Microsoft can only dream of!! HAHAHAHAAAA!!!!"

    what's this story about again?
  • Thank god for credit card companies, if i didn't get rejected i would of bought one of the 700mhz ones about 2 days ago.

    Now i can get one of these slightly faster beauts for the same price...oh wait i cant :(
    • if a new model computer is released within 30 days of purchase, Apple will allow you to exchange yours

      Also, Apple delays shipments when they intend on releasing new models, you would have recieved the new model anyway.
      • thanks for that small nugget :)

      • Re:God bless Credit Card Companies (Score:5, Informative)

        by Anonymous Coward on Tuesday April 22, 2003 @03:28PM (#5783955)
        I call bullshit. Someone please moderate this misleading post down.

        Apple's sales policies are here [apple.com]. The only policy even remotely resembling what you said is stated:

        Should Apple reduce its price on any shipped product within 10 calendar days of shipment, you may contact Apple Sales Support at 1-800-676-2775 to request a refund or credit of the difference between the price you were charged and the current selling price. To receive the refund or credit you must contact Apple within 14 business days of shipment.

        You cannot exchange an item for a just-released newer version, ever. You may exchange one for the same item or refund within 10 business days, provided you didn't open the box. If you did open the box, there's a 10% fee. So the only circumstances under which one could do what you say are:

        • You send it back for a refund within 10 business days of receipt (not 30)
        • Only if the item was unopened
        • You then initiate a new order for the new version, and get stuck in the back of the queue for shipment (which can take weeks for just announced products)

        Otherwise, tough crap! That's the way it is when purchasing technology. It may well be obsolete by the time you get it!

    • the exact same thing happened to me, I bought an 800mz iBook with a 30gb hard drive two days ago, instead, i'll be getting a 900mz with a 40gb hard drive. w00t!
  • I played around with the options on the new iBooks, and the extra batteries are all showing up as opaque white.. previously this was only on the base model. Seems the lovely crystal white model is no longer available. Worse still, does this mean they all have the nasty, nasty, grey plastic hinge and chassis edge finish? Though the opaque white is fine, the plastic hinge looks much cheaper - acceptable in the very cheap low end, but not in the others.

    If true, this will make most of the purchasers at our sit

  • I not so sure the 800 is new, I've had one for 4 months now, is this just an updated range with the 900 Mhx model new and the 800 Mhz model the only other one available?

    • Re:Is 800Mhz New? (Score:5, Informative)

      by jokell82 ( 536447 ) on Tuesday April 22, 2003 @07:53AM (#5780194) Homepage
      The new 800Mhz replaces the previous 700Mhz as the low end iBook. You probably have a combo drive in your 800, well the new 800 only comes with a CD-ROM (as well as a few other changes to make it the low end).
    • Now the slowest iBook is 800MHz not 700. With the 32 MB video memory and if I upgrade the RAM to 256MB, the lowend iBook is a great deal at $1050, and that's before my student discount. If you compare the top 12.1" iBook to the 12" PowerBook, it looks like a rip off unless you really need altivec. Not only is the iBook's G3 faster in megahertz(900 to 867), that's an IBM G3, which is reported to be faster than a Mototola G4 for non altivec operations.

  • Clutter? (Score:2, Funny)

    by Andy_R ( 114137 )
    1. Cluttered website
    2. ???? [apple.com]
    3. Profit!

  • The Apple Store (Score:5, Interesting)

    by lowmagnet ( 646428 ) <<moc.liamg> <ta> <revras.ile>> on Tuesday April 22, 2003 @07:34AM (#5780105) Homepage

    The Apple Store appears to be more usable to me. For starters, I can click on a picture of an iPod and jump right to the iPod page, instead of the digital lifestyle device page. This link used to be in the upper left of the old store.

    I can see and pick from pictures of Apple products instead of going to a 'software' page and first. This is a big usability plus.

    All of the laptops and systems are laid out and ready to be clicked upon.

    If you want cluttered design, pick up a MacMall catalog, or visit the MacMall site [macmall.com], both grand examples of clutter and inappropriate exclaimation.

    • At least they got rid of the brushed metal button bar for "tech specs-graphics-wireless-software." It was difficult to read with the new font Apple's recently adopted.

      I actually like the look of the new store--it's a little brighter, cleaner, and more aquaesque.

    • Re: MacMall Clutter (Score:1, Funny)

      by Anonymous Coward
      I agree that MacMall is cluttered. I'm an account manager for them (PCMall & MacMall), and I feel the same way. I don't want to sit and defend the clutter, but it is tough to advertise specials on roughly 150,000 products. Apple has it a bit easier only displaying their products, and a select few others. Again, I agree it's cluttered, I'm just offering my lame explanation.

      If anyone here is interested, I can get you at least somewhat of a discount on all of the PC/Mac equipment you're buying anyway

      • The biggest problem I have with Macmall is their print catalogues.

        First, every system page has about 9 squares of 'selling up' extra products like printers, RAM, etc. This should be limited to things directly related to the system.

        Second, everything has an exclaimation point after it. If I ended every sentence with an exclaimation point vocally, I'd scream all the time. Big turn-off

        Third, everything is 'ONLY $xxx'. It's not ONLY, sorry. Yes, I know that you display the only price for that product. That's

        • Re: MacMall Clutter (Score:1, Interesting)

          by Anonymous Coward
          Point(s) taken. I agree with all of your points, and have passed your feedback onto people that can actually do something about it.

          The one thing that I can comment on is the "free memory". You should know that nothing in this world is free, except for the free beer that I got at a bar a few weeks ago near my house. While it seems like a rip-off, it does list the price (albeit small print) for installing the memory. That sort of deal is aimed at people who aren't very tech-savvy, and don't want to mess

    • Re:The Apple Store (Score:3, Insightful)

      by Sentry21 ( 8183 )
      Ugh, that site makes my soul hurt.

      My question is, why didn't they update the other stores - the Canada store for example? I would've thought that they would have one 'store' with different ways of getting to it, and based on which you used (Canada, US, UK, etc.) you'd get different prices, products, and some different links. How odd.

      Still, it's more usable for software, but less usable for hardware. Perhaps Apple's noticed a trend towards buying software from the Apple store? It's the logical place for it

  • No new machines, just a speed-bump (Score:3, Interesting)

    by Andy_R ( 114137 ) on Tuesday April 22, 2003 @07:36AM (#5780119) Homepage Journal
    It's just the same old range of 3 iBooks, but with an extra 100 Mhz and an extra 10Gb drive capacity all round.

    Any other changes are too subtle for me to spot comparing the applestore spec with ads in last week's MacUser.

  • iBooks disappointing (Score:5, Interesting)

    by tm2b ( 42473 ) on Tuesday April 22, 2003 @08:00AM (#5780229) Journal
    Hate to say it, but this is pretty disappointing. I bought my current iBook 18 months ago - it's a 600 MHz G3, very close in configuration to these iBooks. Only a 50% speed bump in a year and a half? That's just pathetic.

    It seems pretty clear to me that Apple is holding their iBook line back, limiting them to G3s, to encourage sales of their pro laptops. They are the only system Apple still sells with G3s, the iMac went G4 a long time ago and the low-end eMac is thoroughly G4. Oh well.

    I love my iBook, and I'd love to upgrade it after this long - but not for only a 50% increase in speed. I might be an Apple die-hard, but I'm not quite that eager to give them my money.

    • Re:iBooks not as disappointing as others (Score:5, Interesting)

      by ubiquitin ( 28396 ) on Tuesday April 22, 2003 @08:31AM (#5780399) Homepage Journal
      Well, to Apple's credit, the iBook battery life still beats the pants off anything that Intel or AMD make. Also note that the iBook has held this advantage for a year and a half. IMNSHO battery life makes a much bigger practical difference than processor speed.
      • Some of the new centrino (Pentium M) notebooks have been said to get 7 hours and a good majority of them claim 5-6 hours.

        The pentium M is the first chip by intel designed from the ground up to be a mobile processor. Very low voltage and doesnt run very hot. They are also pretty comparable to the P4 speeds in notebooks (although the mhz are way different).

    • Re:iBooks disappointing (Score:5, Informative)

      by Gropo ( 445879 ) <groopoNO@SPAMyahoo.com> on Tuesday April 22, 2003 @08:40AM (#5780437) Homepage Journal
      A 50% increase in clock frequency... and a 100% increase in L2 cache. A 900Mhz PowerPC 750fx will blow past a 1Ghz 7455 with its limp 256k L2 in a lot of instances.
      • A 50% increase in clock frequency... and a 100% increase in L2 cache. A 900Mhz PowerPC 750fx will blow past a 1Ghz 7455 with its limp 256k L2 in a lot of instances.

        The change from 8-megabytes ATI RAGE 128 to 32-megabytes ATI RADEON will have itself a tremendous effect on MacOS X 10.2, not to mention games - many of them will simply refuse to install on 600 MHz iBook, but will run pretty well on the 800 and 900 models, just because of Radeon. So in overall experience you would notice way more than 50% of

    • Re:iBooks disappointing (Score:5, Insightful)

      by pudge ( 3605 ) <<slashdot> <at> <pudge.net>> on Tuesday April 22, 2003 @09:09AM (#5780632) Homepage Journal
      It seems pretty clear to me that Apple is holding their iBook line back, limiting them to G3s, to encourage sales of their pro laptops.

      Or maybe to keep the price down, perhaps? Nah, that couldn't be it ... ;-)

      If you want a G4 iBook, get a 12-inch PowerBook. Really.

      • It seems pretty clear to me that Apple is holding their iBook line back, limiting them to G3s, to encourage sales of their pro laptops.

        Or maybe to keep the price down, perhaps? Nah, that couldn't be it ... ;-)

        That and the batt life.

      • Re:iBooks disappointing (Score:3, Insightful)

        by tm2b ( 42473 )
        Apples and Oranges. Er....

        I'm comparing machines at the same or similar price-point. The 12-inch PowerBook costs almost twice what I paid for my 600 MHz iBook, so you really can't compare them.

        But, come on... even Apple didn't think enough of this to say that the iBooks have been upgraded their front page. Their store redesign is bigger news in their opinion.
        • Of course it is a different price point. It has a G4 in it! That's the whole point. You put a G4 in it, it costs a lot more. If you want a G4, you can get one, and you pay a lot more. That's how it works.

          If you put a G4 in an iBook, what distinguishes it from the PowerBook? Plastic instead of aluminum? Most of the rest of the differences are not very significant. Video card here, Bluetooth there, sure, it adds up, but you can lower the capabilities of the PowerBook and just have a lower-cost 12" Po
          • You're totally missing what I'm saying.

            After 18 months, a machine at the same price point should be twice as fast. That's basic Moore's law, and PeeCees follow the rule. The technical details will of course be different - Moore's law is about bang for buck, not about particulars of the processors, G4, G3, or whatever.

            • Re:iBooks disappointing (Score:1, Interesting)

              by Anonymous Coward
              You don't understand Moore's Law.

              Moore's Law (which isn't a law at all, but merely a name for a general trend) says that the density of semiconductor junctions on a microprocessor doubles every eighteen months. If you really squint hard, you MIGHT be able to twist that around to imply that processor speed doubles every eighteen months, but that's definitely not the case in any general sense.

              To go a step further and say that your a computer that costs $X today should be twice as fast as the computer that c
            • After 18 months, a machine at the same price point should be twice as fast. That's basic Moore's law, and PeeCees follow the rule.

              Laptops have never followed that "rule," (in quotes because it is not a real rule or law, of course) and it simply isn't feasible to do it with a G4. I am not missing what you are saying, I am saying that what you are saying is imaginary happyland.
              • Interestingly enough, notice that the new "Centrino"'s are running at whopping 1.2, 1.3, and 1.6 ghz for most applications? Heck, Transmeta is just now getting to the 1Ghz range, too. A quick cursory examination at the CompUSA tonight revealed 1.8 ghz Celerons and 2.4 ghz P4's, but I'd love to see their battery life compared to the typical Apple offering, not to mention form-factor (I like my portables to be, well, portable).
                If you really want to get technical, I just my Sony Vaio 505FX 3 weeks ago. That
    • The graphics card, hard drive, and cache have been updated a few times since you bought yours. The Radeon 7500 with 32 MB video ram they put in it last fall has worked great for me, especially in speeding up OS X.

      Also, there have been rumors of a massive remake of the iBook line later in the year, so a huge upgrade to the line now would only slow the coming of that.
    • It seems pretty clear to me that Apple is holding their iBook line back, limiting them to G3s, to encourage sales of their pro laptops.

      And? What're they supposed to do? The iBook you have sitting on your desk is *so* close to being a 12" powerbook - if they dropped a G4 in it, or bumped it to 1GHz then they'd never sell the PB's.

      In my opinion (owner of a recent 700Mhz iBook), I'd hang on to it until the 970 based powerbooks start showing up. I expect we'll see a flood of G4's coming down to the iBook th
    • When reading the specs I initially thought about the same thing. Even though the high end is 80% faster than my 500 MHz iBook and has 24 more megs of VRAM, there isn't anything screaming for me to upgrade. No Airport extreme, no G4, no screamin' fast Firewire upgrades, no higher screen resolution, no G4, and sure as heck no Superdrive, not that I expected one.

      But for a new/prospective Mac user, the iBook continues to be a great value. The things really do have five hours of battery life. The design is
    • What Graphics card does your iBook have? Most likely a Mobility Radeon 16MB

      These have MR 7500 32MB Much better QE performance

      What size L2 Cache? some of the 600MHz models had 256K, these have 512.

      You also get a G3fx (v2.2?) instead of a G3cxe (or 745/755 v 3.1).

      Also, if Panther does exclude some machines, this one probably won't be excluded (but it might, don't quote me)

      But, I really like my Powerbook 12"

  • The new store looks like... the new stores (Score:3, Interesting)

    by truthsearch ( 249536 ) on Tuesday April 22, 2003 @08:24AM (#5780365) Homepage Journal
    I recently saw an Apple store in my local mall for the first time. Having all white glowing walls and glass tables it felt a little space-fantasy-ish. It was nice and had all their products laid out with salesman around but not annoying. The new online store gives me the same sort of feel. Someone probably gave their marketing department a good kick in the pants recently and it's paying off. Someone in marketing is earning their bonus.
  • All models recieved a 100 mhz speedbump. The low end and middle models now have 10Gb additional hard drive space (30Gb). The top end model adds 20Gb additional hard drive space (40Gb).

    A new graphics card, the ATI Mobility RADEON 7500 is now standard on all models with 32Mb of DDR SDRAM.

    But why o' why is the built in RAM still only 128Mb?
    • I don't think the iBook's logic board can take more than 640 Mb in total, so if they increase the base memory to 256, adding a 512 stick to the user slot would be problematic.

      The 256Mb one comes with a 128Mb soldered on and a 128 Mb stick in the user slot.

      As will all Apple products, buy it with the base amount of Ram and buy some cheaper stuff from Crucial or someone on ramseeker.com

  • Thanks for the UI tip, Slashdot. (Score:4, Insightful)

    by SpamJunkie ( 557825 ) on Tuesday April 22, 2003 @08:42AM (#5780450)
    Looks kinda cluttered to me.

    And Slashdot is what? The web's best use of white space?

    Call it a hunch but Apple probably spend a few million dollars on testing and revising the hell out of this design. You wouldn't be seeing it on apple.com if they weren't sure it would increase sales and confuse users less than the old one. This is Apple we're talking about.
  • Ugh. Just a speed bump.

    I'd have my credit-card in hand if the little bugger had bluetooth. I'd love to be able to ssh into all my severs over a cell-phone internet connection.

    (Apple is proably hopeing that people like me will buy the PowerBook - probably smart on their part)

    • Re:No Bluetooth. (Score:1, Informative)

      by Anonymous Coward
      D-Link DBT-120 USB Bluetooth Adapter: $49.95

      It's smaller than your thumb. Just plug it into a USB port and giddy-up.
      • D-Link DBT-120 USB Bluetooth Adapter: $49.95

        No way - It want it built in so I don't break it off accidently. A dongle would be ok if the laptop say on a desk most of the time - but I'd like to use it as a laptop.

    • Try the 12" PowerBook. It is still inexpensive as can be and comes with Bluetooth.

  • No AirPort Extreme (Score:3, Informative)

    by grouchomarxist ( 127479 ) on Tuesday April 22, 2003 @09:28AM (#5780818)
    It looks like the new iBooks still use 802.11b instead of 802.11g [apple.com].
  • ... for jumping the gun on technologies, why don't they just go to 1GHz G3's? Leftover stock and engineering complications aside, it seems to me that the top-of-the-line ibook by now should be a 1GHz G3 processor, 1GB RAM (640MB is too low of a minimum), 60GB Hard Drive (finally they moved up to this), Radeon 7500 64MB DDR, and Airport Extreme. Why can't they just move it up to Airport Extreme? I don't know much about Mac laptop internals, but would they have to change something on the motherboard, or do th
    • Because then no-one would buy the 12" PB. Fewer people would buy th 15" probably and the prices would be that bit higher. Of course,t hey'd probably gain a few sales form the higher specs, but would it be enough to make up for blurring the product lines and canabilsing PB sales? Evidently they don't think so. I think the iBook still does everything it needs to and represnts excellent value for money. My iBook 500 is still going very strong and the currnet line would kick its ass, largely because of the fast
    • If they put all that stuff in the iBook, it would be competing against the pro model.

      The model you describe would even have more RAM and a higher processor speed (though no AltiVec).

      It would be a foolish move from a marketing point of view, and the internals would probably need a significant redesign to fit the differently-sized Airport Extreme card.

      So that's why.
    • My one comment about airport is that what seems very old for Apple (the original airport came out in 1998), is pretty new for PC's. Most people only have 802.11b routers given how cheap they are and that 802.11g has not yet been finalized. It really doesn't matter which standard you use if you only use it to share a broadband connection. And the other things, well Apple usually only puts out a product when it can do it the best. Ex. iPod, Airport, OS X, etc.
  • Apple has done it before. Close all the rumors of product upgrades, new products (ok music site) by announcing them before Macworlds and provide a single focus on Macworld. I can see many product launches over the next month, and then starts the evangelization of Panther (Mac OS X 10.3) right from developers conference and going into Macworld.
  • What is this thing I am always hearing about with PCs and their "Giga Hertz"? What's that all about? It must not be worth anything if Apple won't put one in their "consumer class" laptops.

  • Little bits nice... (Score:2, Informative)

    by yourCat ( 559203 )
    New iBooks still boot with Mac OS 9. It's right enough to people needs only 9 on G3, and cheap :).

  • Small Speed Bump (Score:1, Insightful)

    by Anonymous Coward
    The main reason Apple hasn't updated the iBooks to 1ghz, as someone was suggesting they do, is due to the confusion that would be created between the 1ghz PB and the iBook. Most consumers don't understand how different the G3 and G4 are. If the iBook has very similar features to the Powerbook, it would confuse a lot of their market.

    • Re:Small Speed Bump (Score:1, Informative)

      by Anonymous Coward
      Most consumers don't understand how different the G3 and G4 are.

      Yes, and many geeks don't either. Remember, for operations that don't make use of Altivec (or aren't optimized to do so), the G3 and G4 are pretty much equivalent clock for clock. Just as a random anecdotal example, my 600 MHz iBook and 733 MHz G4 tower render most scenes in povray in nearly the same time (usually less than 5% difference). Obviously I guess that means povray must not be Altivec optimized at all (and I imagine it could be).

  • Refurbished Deals more visible (Score:4, Informative)

    by jeblucas ( 560748 ) <jeblucasNO@SPAMgmail.com> on Tuesday April 22, 2003 @10:51AM (#5781524) Homepage Journal
    That's where I've done my Mac shopping these last few years. You can find some real gems in there. I'm typing this message on an Apple refurbished Powerbook I bought last June-here's the specs:
    • 15.1" screen, 16MB ATI Rage
    • 667 MHz G4, 256 MHz L2, 133 MHz bus
    • 30GB HD, 512MB RAM (in bottom slot), Combo Drive
    • 2 USB, FireWire, PCMCIA, S-Video out, GigE, Airport
    • OS X and 9.2, Graphic Converter, OmniOutliner, OmniGraffle, Snapz Pro X, PixelNHance
    All for $2200! Had a scratch on the bottom. And you can get it with all the Apple Protection Plan you want, just like it was new. If you're a student, it gets knocked down by another 5% or so. Those Educational deals are more easily spotted as well in the new layout.

    The new design is busier for sure, but so is the rest of the web--hell, I can barely find the product I searched for on Amazon nowadays. They wanted more purchases on the front, trading "cleanliness" for "money."

  • Hey,

    does anyone know if the 12" and 17" powerbooks have the same keyboard-touches-screen-when-closed problem that my 15" 800 Mhz (bought October 2002) has? This was a problem since at least the release of the first TiBooks, as far as I know.

    My wife is looking at the 12" PowerBook or an iBook and I'd like to recommend one that she can close without worrying about putting a cloth over the keyboard.
    • My understanding (from having seen one in person and having spoken to people in forums about it) is that at least the 12" PowerBook is fine in that regard, and the 17" PowerBook should be the same (same general keyboard and case design).

      You don't necessarily need a cloth for the keyboard, by the way: I have a standard 8.5-by-11 piece of paper for my 15" PowerBook, and I have yet to see marks despite a few months' use. You do occasionally have to replace the paper.
    • I have a 14" iBook and the lid design is different than the TiBooks. The screen doesn't touch the keyboard. The 12" Powerbook has a similar case design to the 12" iBook and doesn't touch either. I don't know about the 17. I would imagine that if they addressed the issue with the 12", they would with the 17 also.
    • the new 12 inch and 17 inch powerbooks have no problems with screen imprints. In the MacWorld where they review the 12 and 17, they bring that up and say it is not a problem, but I don't know about the iBooks.

  • RAM? (Score:2)

    by fm6 ( 162816 )
    Kind of sad that the hard-wired RAM is only 128K. Presumably they did it to keep the base price down (in particular, the price of the 12-incher down to $999.99) but it's still pretty irritating. You pretty much half to pay for a memory upgrade. And since there's only one memory upgrade slot...
    • Yeah, 128K would suck. Too bad it's actually 128M, which still sucks. 256M should be the minimum for any OS X computer.

    • Re:RAM? (Score:2, Funny)

      by Chuck Bucket ( 142633 )
      No kidding! My Apple //e had 64K, and now these iBooks only have TWICE that? After 20 years they should have made a bigger jump than that. (/me tries to image OS X booting with 128K)

      BTW: :)

      CB
  • ... And I'd probably would have bought one of these...

    I can't think of any reason, other than differentiating the pro and consumer lines, to not include this feature in the iBooks, now they all pack 32MB Radeons...

    As it is I'll stick with my first rev. Dual USB and keep saving, and maybe my finances will get in phase with the 15.4 AluBook annoucement :)

    But if anyone can point towards any hacks to get iBooks dual displayin' please do :)
  • No Airport Extreme. No Bluetooth. No Firewire 800. All technologies that Apple has really been pushing. Apple is obviously ready to get rid of the iBook or totally revamp them. They've already gotten rid of the original iMac. This is the next logical step.
  • It seems so far only the American store website has been redesigned. Apple europe is the same old design (which I prefer in a way, but then Apple knows better..)
  • You can now control-click (or right-click) on the image maps on the main store site, select open page in new tab (or window) and it opens the page you want instead of doing nothing or opening the same page...

    Don't believe me? Compare and contrast:
    New Apple Store: http://store.apple.com/1-800-MY-APPLE/WebObjects/A ppleStore/
    Old Apple Store (in the form of Canada's Apple Store): http://store.apple.com/1-800-MY-APPLE/WebObjects/c anadastore
  • that is quite possibly the worst layout for the store I could imagine. No, no... there's no blinking text or animated icons.

    "Let's throw one of every product line on the main screen. Make sure there are at least 30 images so modem users have to wait as long as possible. Use a low contrast color set of light blue text on a light gray background. And oh yea, let's really confuse everyone: instead of showing you the one product you click on, lets just show them all the products in the family in case they spon
  • My 500Mhz iBook is jealous.

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