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OS X Businesses Operating Systems The Internet Upgrades Apple

Safari Beta 2 Available 374

Posted by pudge from the mmmmm-tabs dept.
pldms writes "Safari Beta 2 is available via Software Update or from the Safari page. This is build 73, for those who've had 'exclusive' access to previous development versions since beta 1 ;-) The blurb: 'Safari Beta 2 introduces tabbed browsing to conveniently see and switch between multiple web pages in a single window, and AutoFill to instantly fill out web forms and password fields. This update also features increased standards compatibility and improved application stability.'" I had to set Lax Certificate Checks in the Debug menu to use it with Slashdot ... and its secure cookie check is still quite broken (either saves secure cookies without the secure flag, or sends out secure cookies to insecure sites, which would violate RFC 2965 where it says "no less than the same level of security").
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Safari Beta 2 Available More

Safari Beta 2 Available

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  • Can't Wait (Score:5, Funny)

    by Oculus Habent ( 562837 ) <(oculus.habent) (at) (gmail.com)> on Monday April 14, 2003 @08:36AM (#5727340) Journal
    Damn job! Interfering with my ability to play with Safari at home. I can't wait to see how the tabbed browsing implementation looks/feels.

  • Hmm...can't feel much difference :) (Score:3, Funny)

    by Paladeen ( 8688 ) on Monday April 14, 2003 @08:41AM (#5727374)
    Hmm...in the About Safari window it's listed as 1.0 beta (v.73).

    Doesn't seem to be that much different from the previously leaked v67 :).

    • Re:Hmm...can't feel much difference :) (Score:5, Informative)

      by Caleb Rutan ( 1996 ) on Monday April 14, 2003 @09:07AM (#5727549)
      Well, one thing they fixed, (which is important for web-application people like me) is the form file upload method. In .67 it was broken: no file browser would appear when you clicked 'Choose File', so that is definitely an improvement. It worked in .60, but they managed to break it in between.

      Not that anyone using .67 (myself included) had any right to complain about broken features in an unreleased version ;)

    • Re:Hmm...can't feel much difference :) (Score:4, Informative)

      by jsmith38 ( 629490 ) <jsmith38 AT utk DOT edu> on Monday April 14, 2003 @09:40AM (#5727858)
      Another thing that I noticed in 67 is that when I would Hide Safari, it would crash sometimes.

      I've been trying to make 73 crash by hiding, in the last few minutes to no avail.

      Also, the auto fill feature button is different (I know your wanting functional improvments).

      Another new feature is the "Reset Safari" found under the Safari menu. It appears to empty your cache, delete cookies, history, etc. Nice if you don't want your boss/wife finding all that porn you've been looking at.

      There are more options when you right click on somethign (ctrl-click).

      Some pdf don't automatically launch for me though after downloading them, I had this problem with 67, but not with 60.

      There appears to be more options in the preferences too.
    • So far it seems to handle tabs better. I had v.67 and it would usually mess up tabs a bit--draw the borders wrong (overlapping in wierd ways) and leave more than one drawn in the lighter color to suggest the active tab. Seems fixed so far. Still no support for the 4-year-old fieldset [w3.org] tag, though. Too bad, it's handy in forms.

      And it still screws up sending text messages from this AT&T page [att.net]. Type text into the sender and subject box and it only shows 1 character at a time. Type into the message box and i

  • Mmmmm, nice... (Score:5, Funny)

    by berniecase ( 20853 ) on Monday April 14, 2003 @08:43AM (#5727393) Homepage Journal
    With browsers this quick, Apple's going to have a hard time selling faster machines :-)
    • I've tried Safari in one of those Apple stores in the mall, but I think that I'm spoiled from using Opera, because I find that Opera outperforms Safari by at least a factor of two, even on my 500MHz machine at work. But to be fair, these are across different platforms. And of course, I'm still in love with OSX... I just hope that they keep making Opera for it.
      • I've tried Safari in one of those Apple stores in the mall, but I think that I'm spoiled from using Opera, because I find that Opera outperforms Safari by at least a factor of two, even on my 500MHz machine at work.

        I do think Safari needs to be threaded, it seems to pause when loading tabs in the background, just as the older mozilla 1.0 did. On mozilla I'd open a bug report, not sure where to report problems with Safari.

        • Re:Mmmmm, nice... (Score:3, Informative)

          by furballphat ( 514726 )
          There's a send bug report feature in Safari. Turn the button on in the view menu.
        • Yeah, threading is still something 'new' for Apple to grasp and implement. OSX does some nice things, but simple stuff that should have been threaded in 1.0 doesn't even seem to be on their radar.

          Just like Safari, it does some nice things and has great speed compared to other Mac Browsers but it doesn't even have the basic threading abilities that IE had back in 1998. Apple should be more on the ball and this should have been a part of the original design specifications and not something they will add.

          Ju

          • yes, of course (Score:5, Insightful)

            by lordpixel ( 22352 ) on Monday April 14, 2003 @03:23PM (#5730708) Homepage

            I wonder if you're a troll or just someone who likes to sounds clever?

            It also just kills me that Apple installation software will fill the screen, like the user wants to set and watch it install. In the Windows world, this is unheard of. Even if the installation screen is maximized, we can just hit minimize and go on with our work while it installs.

            Most Windows installers maximize their window, whereas all common Mac installers just use a regular window.

            How many Windows users do actually minimize the installer screen though? How many just sit watching its pretty blue bar?

            Every time I have to install QuickTime for a user, it makes me shake my head, since the QuickTime screen not only fills the screen with no option to minimize, but it even does this during the entire download process. Sure I can flick the Windows Key and go back to work, but what were they thinking? Every time I install QuickTime I think, Apple, you just are not getting the whole multi-application pre-emptive thing and what it means for your users.

            Oh! Now in this paragraph we can all see you're not talking about installers on the Mac after all, you're talking about you're talking about the Quicktime for Windows installer. The fact you cannot minimize it sounds annoying, true. However, as you point out you can always press Windows-M to get rid of it. Or Alt-Tab one assumes...?

            So infact the set of users who are effected by this issue comes down to those people who

            • actually want to minimize an installer rather than just watching it
            • don't know how to Windows-M or Alt-Tab

            In other words, its a tiny annoyance in Apple's Windows installer which, while it should be corrected, has almost no effect on anyone...

            Unfortunately this thinking will take some catching up, Microsoft has had a pre-emptive OS since 1993, threading and other issues for simultaneous application usage for users is far more mature in all of the NT products especially XP.

            Have you actually any examples, beyond vague suggestions that the Mac "File Manager" wasn't multi-threaded enough in Mac OS X 10.0 ? I mean, I wouldn't claim its perfect even in 10.2, but then I've used Windows NT and its "File Manager" for over half a decade now, and you know, it has a few threading issues too. I don't want to be rude, but other than your poorly constructed installer rant, you don't actually seem to have any examples.

            And we would just waste ten messages debating why I disagree with Apple's OSX mach kernel decision. Which is why OSX on a whole is subject to less responsiveness than Linux or WindowsXP(NT).)

            Of course, you have links you could share with us to actual profiling results showing comparisons between MacOS, Windows and Linux (et al.). These show conclusively where "responsiveness differences" occur, and then proceed to demonstrate how these are surely caused by the Mach micro kernel and not any other factor like, just for example: hardware or boneheaded programing in the File Manager or GUI?

            Please do post such material. It would be very interesting.

    • Re:Mmmmm, nice... (Score:4, Funny)

      by Anonymous Coward on Monday April 14, 2003 @09:53AM (#5727967)
      With browsers this quick, Apple's going to have a hard time selling faster machines

      That's ok, they don't have any ;)

  • The writing is on the wall.. (Score:4, Funny)

    by grub ( 11606 ) <slashdot@grub.net> on Monday April 14, 2003 @08:45AM (#5727400) Homepage Journal

    Apple has Safari.
    Safaris are for big, strong dudes.
    Acronym for big, strong dudes is "BSD"
    BSD is dying.
    Apple has a BSDish system under the hood.

    ergo: Apple is dying.

  • Keyboard Implementation (Score:5, Informative)

    by henele ( 574362 ) on Monday April 14, 2003 @08:45AM (#5727410) Homepage
    For a touch of karma whoring, for the people who never played around with an 'unreleased' beta (which includes me), the keyboard/mouse controls for tabbed browsing (which is turned off by default, and has it's own tab in the new Safari Preferences).

    Apple-Click : Opens a link in a new tab.
    Apple-Shift-Click : Opens a link in a new tab and selects it.
    Apple-Option-Click : Opens a link in a new window behind the other one.
    Apple-Option-Shift-Click : Opens a link in a new window and selects it.

    There is also the check box option to always display the tab bar, plus 'Select new tabs as they are created', which alters the above keyboard setup.

    I'm on my iBook at the moment, so I'm not sure how these interface with multi-button mice, but I guess you could configure the buttons to correlate with these modifiers, if you haven't already...

    • Re:Keyboard Implementation (Score:5, Informative)

      by henele ( 574362 ) on Monday April 14, 2003 @08:54AM (#5727463) Homepage
      Additionally, tabs aren't specifically noted in the 'Window' menu - there is not distinction between a window containing one page and one tab of many in a different window.

      Secondly

      Apple-Shift-Left or Right : Switches to the previous or next tab in a window, which is nice. It is also circular, so going right when browsing the final tab will bring you back to the first...

    • Re:Keyboard Implementation (Score:5, Informative)

      by fhammond ( 126717 ) on Monday April 14, 2003 @09:03AM (#5727513)
      It gets better..

      You can use these features with the right-mouse-button click google.com search. This is where you RMB click a word and one of the options is a google search of that word. Before this new build, it wasn't that useful, as the google search would be done in the same window (i.e. navigating you away for the page you were on).

      Safari rocks!
      • You can do this as well with the keyboard, if you don't have your USB mouse attached...

        Instead of right-click, use (on my iBook):

        ctrl-applekey-mouse button on a *highlighted* word, then select 'google search' with just a regular click.
      • If you like this feature in Safari, I highly recommend the simple and elegant SearchGoogle service [gu.st]. The page says "10.1" at the top, but that's 10.1 or higher -- it works fine for me on Jaguar.

        The service lets you search Google with selected text in any app supporting services, not just Safari, with just a cmd-shift-G. It's amazing how useful this is! For example, I'll often select some class name in my code to look for online docs.

        True, it doesn't integrate with Safari's tabs in any slick way -- it ju
    • For me it works differently... Shift indicates "don't select" whereas the default is to select new tabs/windows.

      so, modified I get:

      Apple-Click : Opens a link in a new tab (and select it)
      Apple-Shift-Click : Opens a link in a new tab but don't select it.
      Apple-Option-Click : Opens a link in a new window and select it.
      Apple-Option-Shift-Click : Opens a link in a new window behind the other one.
      • ...and as I just discovered after posting, the discrepancy comes from having the "select new tabs as they are created" option set under the preferences. I have it checked, whereas you don't.

  • The perfect browser? (Score:4, Interesting)

    by CptTripps ( 196901 ) on Monday April 14, 2003 @08:47AM (#5727424) Homepage
    I had my doubts about Safari. After a few days of "testing" it out, I forgot how painful it was to use IE. Sure there are occations that Safari won't open a page or something, but this beta is better than most 5.X brosers that have been around for a while.

    The new tabbed interface is VERY well done. I'm very happy with it now. Could be the perfect browser....for me at least.

    • Re:The perfect browser? (Score:5, Informative)

      by pldms ( 136522 ) on Monday April 14, 2003 @09:05AM (#5727542)
      Hmm. I'm not sure about perfect, but I was with you in spirit for a while as I tried out the new version. It's an impressive upgrade. Tabs are nice. Speed has improved. All looked well...

      Then I went to an ftp site.

      For those unaware, Safari can't browse ftp. It delegates it to another application. This is curious, yet might be ok if weren't for the fact that the application in question is the finder, which attempts to mount the ftp site as a disk.

      Annoying. And it gets worse, because mounting a remote ftp site often seems to threadlock the entire OS: the dreaded spinning wheel of death.

      So I'm currently rebooting thanks to Safari.

      (posted using Camino)
      • Call me lucky or average, but I've not had any real problems with using the finder to do the FTP stuff. At first it was weird, because it gaave me no indication that it was delegating it to the finder, but past that... no problems. One time, however, I did get 10 instances of an FTP site mounted- not sure what is up with that. But I just selected all of them and Cmd-E'd them into non-existance. Don't have any problems with the SWOD though.

        • Re:The perfect browser? (Score:3, Interesting)

          by pldms ( 136522 )
          Call me lucky or average, but I've not had any real problems with using the finder to do the FTP stuff

          You're lucky. Dunno about average.

          I've no idea why it occurs, but it's nasty when it does. (Maybe because I'm using NAT? Other clients work. Alignment of the planets?) I doesn't always happen, but it's been regular enough for me to avoid it like the plague.

          I guess it breaks down to the following:

          1) Why can't safari browse ftp?
          2) Why don't Apple provide Internet Config anymore, so I can punt ftp onto so
          • ...so I can punt ftp onto something less nasty (you can use IE for this, bizarrely).

            Heh. Why can't Apple just punt you to the command line? Not like you need fancy graphics to ftp.

            Why can't Apple fix the kernel?

            Multithreading the finder would be a *huge* task. One very much worth doing, but still a huge one. There are some other things they should do too, like rewrite it in Cocoa to take advantage of cocoa-y features and make the system UI more consistent (wrt text-dragging and the like). I would

            • Re:The perfect browser? (Score:2, Informative)

              by pldms ( 136522 )
              ...so I can punt ftp onto something less nasty (you can use IE for this, bizarrely).

              Heh. Why can't Apple just punt you to the command line? Not like you need fancy graphics to ftp.

              Well, I was thinking of Transmit or somesuch. btw, I wasn't clear originally. You can use IE to set the URL handler for a give URL scheme (like Internet Config could). All apps seem to respect it. Weird that IE has a use :-)

              Multithreading the finder would be a *huge* task.

              It's not the Finder's fault. When this fault arise
          • My guess is that it has to do with the aligment of the planets. :P I am behind a NAT as well.
      • Use Vince [monkeyfood.com] to change your default ftp helper. It's kind of like the protocol helper prefs in Classic IE.

      • Re:The perfect browser? (Score:5, Informative)

        by Xenex ( 97062 ) <xenex@@@opinionstick...com> on Monday April 14, 2003 @11:26AM (#5728748) Journal
        "And it gets worse, because mounting a remote ftp site often seems to threadlock the entire OS: the dreaded spinning wheel of death."

        Interesting - this locked up your entire system? On dial-up, I've seen it cause Finder to lock up and need a Force Quit, but never lock the entire OS. I've just followed mbkkelsey's advice [slashdot.org] and used Vince [monkeyfood.com] to change the ftp 'helper' application. In my quick test, I used Transmit [panic.com] and it worked flawlessly.

        Of course, it would still be a whole lot nicer if Safari could handle the FTP itself, just like virtually every other modern browser...

  • You had me there for a second (Score:4, Funny)

    by arvindn ( 542080 ) on Monday April 14, 2003 @08:49AM (#5727437) Homepage Journal
    Phew... When I saw a link to an RFC which was purportedly about about security I was sure it was the evil bit thingy. Had to click on the link to verify that it was a different RFC!

  • New: "Open in Tabs" item in Bookmarks Bar menus (Score:5, Informative)

    by Rouxfus ( 567556 ) on Monday April 14, 2003 @08:58AM (#5727480)
    There's a novel new feature related to the Tabs that bears mention. If you have folder/menus in your Bookmark Bar populated with bookmarks, there's now a menu item at the bottom of that pull-down menu that says "Open in Tabs". If you select this it will create a new tab for all the bookmarks in that group of bookmarks! This is similar to a feature in Camino that lets you set up tab groups. What I'd like to see is the ability to save a tab group or "workspace" out to a special .webloc type file that I can use to launch a bunch of URLs from the dock, or by double clicking, etc. Maybe there's a way to do this right now?
    • Command-clicking on the folder in the bookmark bar accomplishes the same thing. It was quite un-nerving the first time it happened (I was trying to experiment to see if a single bookmark could be opened in a new tab).
      • Replying to my own post.

        The "open in tabs" feature is somewhat buggy. Any existing tabs disappear; and the "back" button after all of the new tabs show up takes the browser back to the previous tabs. (ie, if Slashdot and Yahoo are in two tabs; selecting "open in tabs" of my "Apple" bookmark folder would replace /. and Y! with Quicktime, OSX, etc. Pressing "back" gets rid of the Apple pages, and /. and Y! come back).

        Something else worth mentioning is that if you close all of the tabs, you can't open a U

        • Re:New: "Open in Tabs" item in Bookmarks Bar menus (Score:5, Interesting)

          by MidKnight ( 19766 ) on Monday April 14, 2003 @10:09AM (#5728082)
          The "open in tabs" feature is somewhat buggy. Any existing tabs disappear; and the "back" button after all of the new tabs show up takes the browser back to the previous tabs.

          I think this is actually the desired behavior. It allows you to treat a collection of links as a single "location" you can go to, instead of treating each separate tab as a wholly separate instance. While it might take some getting used to, I kinda like it. I can open up my 'News' pages in a single click and, after browsing all the tabs, return back to whatever I was doing beforehand with another single click.

          That's something I always appreciate about Apple -- their willingness to push a UI feature to its limits....
  • I wish Apple had combined the tabs feature with their right-mouse-button click Google search feature. If you haven't seen this, RMB click on any word. One of the options is "Google Search". Selecting it will (surprise, surprise) take you to google.com to search for the word you had selected. I wish instead it opened a new tab to do the search. Seems like an obvious place to use tabs.

    fh
  • I had to set Lax Certificate Checks in the Debug menu to use it with Slashdot ...

    An EDITOR that actually READS Slashdot?!? Can this truly be real?

  • Ummm... (Score:2, Redundant)

    by bmj ( 230572 )
    Is it just me, or did anyone else get a version of Safari that works exactly like the last Software Update release? I check the info, and it says v.73, but alas, no tabbed browsing, or any other neat-o features....

  • Serious question (Score:3, Interesting)

    by taeric ( 204033 ) on Monday April 14, 2003 @09:19AM (#5727653)
    What is it that makes this browser so much better then the others?

    I have some friends now that recently switched to the apple side of computing, and I can't help but laugh at them on some of the stuff they applaud Apple for. This browser is one of them.

    They claim it is faster, but I just don't see how that is possible. The bottleneck in most all browsing I do is the network. Have they simply found a way to make it seem faster? Have other browsers on the Mac been slow in the past? I don't get it.

    As a reference. I use IE at work, and Phoenix (or should that be the browser formerly known as Phoenix) at home. While I do appreciate some of the benefits of Phoenix over IE, I honestly think it is a toss up between them.

    I think most of my problems nowdays are with sites that are just ugly. However, I can't tell the difference -- or maybe I just don't care -- between the way any browsers handle fonts and whatnot. I also can't notice most of the differences between how sites render. I do appreciate the fact that most sites appear stable in all browsers now.

    So... what is so great about Safari?

    • Re:Serious question (Score:5, Interesting)

      by HarveyBirdman ( 627248 ) on Monday April 14, 2003 @09:27AM (#5727742) Journal
      They claim it is faster, but I just don't see how that is possible. The bottleneck in most all browsing I do is the network.

      I think it's a case of just an efficient rendering algorithm versus the retarded code inside Internet Explorer for the Mac (or the PC for that matter). It renders much faster, so with a fast site it feels faster overall.

      Yeah, with a slow site Safari is slow, but that's not what people are talking about. We know the bottleneck is ultimately the network- that's not a newsflash. Safari makes the user end as quick as possible.

      I just wish some browser maker would do better caching. I'm so tired on clicking "Back" and the browsers sits and spins for a long time. It's in the freaking cache, you dimwit pile of crap! It's only one page back! I've seen this stupid behavior in every browser on Macs, PCs and Suns regardless of user settings.

      • I just wish some browser maker would do better caching. I'm so tired on clicking "Back" and the browsers sits and spins for a long time. It's in the freaking cache, you dimwit pile of crap! It's only one page back! I've seen this stupid behavior in every browser on Macs, PCs and Suns regardless of user settings.

        I have the opposite problem with Opera 7. If I hit back, it will get the page from the cache, which can be annoying when it's a page I'm working on, and I know it's changed since I last loaded it.

      • I just wish some browser maker would do better caching. I'm so tired on clicking "Back" and the browsers sits and spins for a long time. It's in the freaking cache, you dimwit pile of crap! It's only one page back! I've seen this stupid behavior in every browser on Macs, PCs and Suns regardless of user settings.

        IIRC OmniWeb used to cache the rendered page when moving down through a web site. This gave it lightning fast drawing when moving back. However it did use a shed load of memory and could be problem

    • It's not that much better, it's just handy (Score:5, Insightful)

      by ianscot ( 591483 ) on Monday April 14, 2003 @09:42AM (#5727880)
      What is it that makes this browser so much better then the others?

      Safari is not the greatest thing since penicillin. It won't save the world. It's not even a full release version.

      What it is: a relatively svelte, quick-feeling (and yes that's partly just render speed), nicely spare browser that feels fine to use. Look at a page in Safari next to, say, Opera. The leanness of Safari stands out in several senses: render speed, clean layout, just the speed with which the program loads.

      It's like a tool that feels good in your hand. Apple has a way of producing stuff like that. That's what your friends mean.

      (And when your friends start claiming iCal as one of Apple's triumphs, then you can suspect them. There's a program in serious need of practical work, and much more of a beta than Safari. Slow as molasses, too.)

    • Re:Serious question (Score:4, Insightful)

      by feldsteins ( 313201 ) <scott@@@scottfeldstein...net> on Monday April 14, 2003 @09:56AM (#5727991) Homepage
      I can't help but laugh at them on some of the stuff they applaud Apple for...They claim it is faster, but I just don't see how that is possible.

      Mac users can be a bit silly with these things, it's true. But as a non-Mac user you probably take some things for granted - like having a fast web browser. One that is highly optimized for your OS. We've never really had that and it does make a difference, network bottlenecks notwithstanding.
    • Sigh. So when KHTML is used in OS X, it's "blazingly fast!" and when it's used in Linux it's "slow/inefficient/X sucks" (yes, I know that last one isn't an adjective, but it appears that most people don't...)

  • Damn sexy. (Score:5, Informative)

    by viktor ( 11866 ) on Monday April 14, 2003 @09:26AM (#5727729) Homepage

    Ok, updated Safari. Tabbed browsing support means Safari is now my default browser.

    But I want to transfer the bookmarks from the bookmark bar in Camino to Safari. Seems like a lot of trouble. Because, well, it couldn't... or, it's OS X but yet... could bookmarks be drag-n-droppable? Between browsers from two entirely different places? They couldn't...

    But they are. And that's damn sexy.

    It just works.

    • Re:Damn sexy. (Score:5, Informative)

      by frankie ( 91710 ) on Monday April 14, 2003 @09:41AM (#5727876) Journal
      transfer the bookmarks from the bookmark bar in Camino to Safari.

      I was about to post my usual mention of Safari Enhancer [versiontracker.com] when I realized what you were saying. Safari recognizes URL drags into the bookmarks bar from pretty much any source, including .webloc files and text selections. Definitely cool. Makes me wonder why other browsers don't do the same.

      Please mod parent up.
    • I couldn't figure out how to drag my bookmarks from Camino to Safari. More info?

  • Best of both worlds (Score:4, Informative)

    by cenonce ( 597067 ) <anthony_t AT mac DOT com> on Monday April 14, 2003 @09:26AM (#5727733)

    Finally! Tabbed browsing... the one feature I missed from Camino!

    From the fifteen minutes I've used it so far, Safari now "acts" a lot like Camino

    Now I get the speed of Safari with the features of Camino!

    Camino has been quite crashy for me (as others posting have mentioned as well) so I'll hold off the final verdict to see if Safari crashes less (though, I will state that it crashed less anyway... it just didn't have tabs!) :)

    -A

  • Tabs could be trouble at work (Score:5, Funny)

    by Wyatt Earp ( 1029 ) on Monday April 14, 2003 @09:28AM (#5727750)
    I surfed over to the Debka file for and my tab for that page reads.

    http://www.debka.com/

    DEBKAfile, Political Anal

    Not something I'd want my boss seeing.

  • Any news on bookmark searching? (Score:4, Interesting)

    by henele ( 574362 ) on Monday April 14, 2003 @09:33AM (#5727801) Homepage
    One of the things which makes me use iTunes on certain machines is the indiscriminate search feature and how it works so well with both librarys and playlists.

    I would really like to see it added in someway to Safari as now it is my main browser my bookmarks, despite attempted organisation are beginning to get out of control.

    Swapping the Google search panel for a bookmark search interface (when you flick the bookmark switch, which checked titles and URLs) would be cool, and as a 'power' feature if you could searched cached versions of the bookmark's pages as well it would be excellent (please inform me if another browser already has that functionality)...
  • Here's some Monday morning fun for all you Safari v73 users. With tabs turned on but "always show tab bar" turned off, follow this procedure about five times:

    Open a new window. Open a new tab. Close the entire window by clicking on the gumdrop.

    Voila! Now your default window size is huge!

    Apparently Apple was content to get professional UI design for only the first beta. Other things that should be present, such as drag-and-drop tab rearrangement, also aren't present. (From a UI perspective, there's no com

  • Bugzilla users beware :( (Score:4, Informative)

    by helixblue ( 231601 ) on Monday April 14, 2003 @09:41AM (#5727869) Homepage
    For whatever reason, this version of Safari, as well as v.71, won't work with the cookies in Bugzilla [bugzilla.org]. On two machines I've tried it on both bugzilla.mozilla.org and our own internal versions of it. Kind of annoying to work with tickets all day at work and have to keep re-logging in. Hopefully this issue has a nice workaround either on the Safari or the Bugzilla side.

    I currently recommend a nightly build of Camino [mozilla.org] instead for these users. It now has a pretty nifty & flexible Google search bar finally (obligatory screenshot [toadstool.sh]). I do miss the spell-as-you-type feature in Safari however.

  • FIXED, FINALLY (or at least drastically improved): The "contacting latency" bug. This bug caused extreme latency when contacting sites that ought to be really fast. Have you ever timed out while connecting to localhost? How about when connecting to Slashdot?

    STILL THERE: That horrible scrollbug!

  • Bookmark menu 'Open in Tabs' button (Score:5, Informative)

    by OS24Ever ( 245667 ) <trekkie@nomorestars.com> on Monday April 14, 2003 @09:42AM (#5727885) Homepage Journal
    OK, for the record, when looking in your bookmarks and seeing the 'Open in Tabs' button when you think 'what does this do?' don't do it on a very full menu.

    It opens every bookmark in that menu in it's own tab. Woot. talk about a lotta web pages

    • > OK, for the record, when looking in your bookmarks and seeing the 'Open in Tabs' button when you think 'what does this do?' ... It opens every bookmark in that menu in it's own tab.

      FWIW, this feature is in Galeon [sourceforge.net] too. I don't know how long it has been there; I never knew it existed until I read this thread and thought to look at the bookmarks menu to see whether it did this too.

      > talk about a lotta web pages

      Yeah, tabs will change your browsing habits. Right now I have 28 browser windows open

  • so far, so good. (Score:2, Interesting)

    by wtmcgee ( 113309 )
    so far, this thing flies. i have only 2 minor complaints so far:

    tab switching is kind of slow at times, even with only 2 or 3 tabs open.

    i'm still waiting for them to get the 'check spelling as you type' pref to stick between sessions.

    other than that, this browser is truly amazing. loads pages lightning quick,looks great, and the feature set is starting to set it at par with the other big time browsers for mac.
  • From the Safari webpage [apple.com] at Apple:
    Privacy reset
    When you use a public machine, you may be concerned about entering passwords to your bank account or subscriptions services; or maybe you don't want people to know you have a secret fascination with advice columns
    Hmm, that's not the only thing that people browsing the web have secret fascinations with... :^)

  • Stuff That's Been Fixed (Score:4, Insightful)

    by bedouin ( 248624 ) on Monday April 14, 2003 @10:10AM (#5728100)
    1) You can finally use a secure proxy: in past versions this was broken for some reason (anybody who has had it disabled for the past few months might want to re-enable it now).

    2) Cookies are finally working on PHP nuke sites: previous versions would lose preferences right after signing in.

    3) I can finally login to my university's registration system. It uses this [sct.com] software; I'm guessing other schools rely on it too.

    Anything else?

    Arabic language support is still not quire right (certain letters in words are being displayed too small). A Windows Media Player plugin might be nice, but that probably is on the shoulders of M$ more-so than Apple. Other than that everything is perfect; tabs were something I was expecting anyway, and the right-click Google search was a surprise bonus.
    • My university also uses Banner, but I am still not able to log in there (you really had my hopes up for a second there). I'm not sure why this is.
      On the plus side, I can finally log into my bank's internet banking service, which previously locked me out. So now I can figure out how much money I owe the school, but I can't check my grades. =)

  • Get Your Helmet On (Score:3, Informative)

    by bckspc ( 172870 ) on Monday April 14, 2003 @10:25AM (#5728238) Homepage

    Make sure you upgrade your version of PithHelmet [hiredgoons.com].

    If you don't have it and run Safari, I strongly recommend it. It's a flexible way of filtering ads.

    It rocks.

  • Wither Camino/Chimera? (Score:5, Insightful)

    by MacAndrew ( 463832 ) on Monday April 14, 2003 @10:42AM (#5728393) Homepage
    Another thread here touting Camino was mysteriously modded "flamebait" so here goes...

    I have used and loved Chimera for many months for many reasons. As other have found, the renamed Camino is crash-prone, strange in the very last nightly build of Chimera before the trademark-conflict name change (which you can find easily by anonymous FTP to their server) is great. I downgraded to Build 2003030408 and am content.

    Now comes Safari, also great, except the lack of tabbed browsing and that awful brushed metal stuff. OK, tabbed browsing is now checked off on the feature list. Safari shares a startling number of other features, and then some. Eventually Safari will be indistinguishable from Camino/Chimera. Congratulations Apple, what a coup.... (Hey guys, add keywords for bookmarks so I can continue to google with "g keyword keyword" and I'll switch.)

    So what's the deal for independent software efforts? Bust yourself to develop and demonstrate new UI and core technologies to have them lifted by a large for-profit computer maker? Granted the open source Camino is intended to create new work without profit, but at some point it will also lose the "profit" of public attention, and wither away, and cease to produce new things.

    At the least I'd like to see Safari give a nod to Chimera. At the best I'd like an answer from Apple how they're not doing the Internet Explorer thing in miniature, and how non-Apple developers will continue to inspire and be inspired when they face having their work negated in a mere twitch of the tail of the whale.

    I'm a Mac person, and back to the years before the Mac (the Apple ][+ is in a box). I think Apple has often done the right thing and will continue to (often) do the right thing. But there is something disturbing in their generous production of free software, similar in effect if not (I hope) intent to what Redmond has done. Be careful, Apple.
    • Safari is less about Apple trying to make their own end-all be-all browser and more Apple wanting to add a good HTML enginer to the Cocoa framework. Safari is as much of technology demonstration as it is an actual product. When WebCore becomes a system framework anyone will be able to implement their own browser on OSX with quite a bit of functionality at that. OmniGroup is planning to ditch their homebrew HTML engine for WebCore in the next OmniWeb release. They get all of the functionality and compatibili

  • Autofill coolness... (Score:4, Informative)

    by Daniel_Staal ( 609844 ) <DStaal@usa.net> on Monday April 14, 2003 @10:42AM (#5728396)
    Anyone else notice that Autofill now not only works, it gets info from the (system wide) AddressBook? Change your address in one place for envelopes, Palm Business Cards, and now your browser!

    Ok, so it is minor. Still cool.

  • If software update doesn't work (Score:3, Informative)

    by derbs ( 563933 ) on Monday April 14, 2003 @10:45AM (#5728410)
    If software update doesn't show the new Safari, make sure the old one's in the root of your Applications folder, otherwise it won't recognise it.

  • Moving Windows! (Score:2, Informative)

    by ennerseed ( 463366 )
    yeah the tabs are really great but, It really would be nice if I could stop moving my window from side to side looking for the Tab behind the one I am on!

  • Can't wait for KDE 3.2 (Score:4, Insightful)

    by Telex4 ( 265980 ) on Monday April 14, 2003 @11:59AM (#5729040) Homepage
    This is great. I don't have a Mac, and I have no intention of getting one, but I really like seeing good progress in Safari, since by the time KDE 3.2 comes out, I'll get most of those advances in my own lurvely Konqueror.

    Thanks Apple! :)

  • Debug menu (Score:3, Informative)

    by daveschroeder ( 516195 ) on Monday April 14, 2003 @12:12PM (#5729130)
    To enable the debug menu, which allows for viewing of various debug information, masquerading as other browsers, complete list of keyboard and mouse shortcuts, and lax security certificate checking, execute the following command as the logged-in user while Safari is not running:

    defaults write com.apple.safari IncludeDebugMenu 1

    and then relaunch Safari. A new menu entitled "Debug" should be available.

  • Actually, the RFC says... (Score:3, Informative)

    by i_am_pi ( 570652 ) <i_am_pi_@hotmai l . c om> on Monday April 14, 2003 @01:09PM (#5729542) Homepage Journal
    Secure

    OPTIONAL. The Secure attribute (with no value) directs the user
    agent to use only (unspecified) secure means to contact the origin
    server whenever it sends back this cookie, to protect the
    confidentially and authenticity of the information in the cookie.

    The user agent (possibly with user interaction) MAY determine what
    level of security it considers appropriate for "secure" cookies.
    The Secure attribute should be considered security advice from the
    server to the user agent, indicating that it is in the session's
    interest to protect the cookie contents. When it sends a "secure"
    cookie back to a server, the user agent SHOULD use no less than
    the same level of security as was used when it received the cookie
    from the server.
    That means to me that Safari's behavior, while logically stupid, is correct according to the RFC, which says "SHOULD use no less", not "MUST". Plus, supporting secure cookies is entirely optional.

    Pi

  • What about MIME-types Configuration? (Score:3, Interesting)

    by repetty ( 260322 ) on Monday April 14, 2003 @02:46PM (#5730374) Homepage
    I've been using Safari since the first beta was released but it was only this last weekend when I realized that I couldn't find something in it: MIME-type configuration.

    I ran into this when I realized that I couldn't tell it how to handle Bit Torrent but had no problems with Mozilla. You know, some way of teaching Safari how to handle a new type?

    Does anyone know how this is supposed to be done?

    --Richard

  • How to make Safari smaller (Score:4, Informative)

    by azav ( 469988 ) on Monday April 14, 2003 @05:37PM (#5731790) Homepage Journal
    If you notice, this browser is 10.2 meg. After doing a get info on the file, I noticed that it supported languages that I would never use. To make your Safari smaller, do a get info on it, click the languages arrow and remove all the langs you don't want/need.

    Removing French, German and Japanese brought the file size down to 7.6 meg.

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