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Upgrades Businesses Apple

Safari Beta Leaked, With Tabs 275

ollie_ob writes "Seems a bit too good to be true: Apple listening to its community and implementing the features most requested? Apparently a build (v62) of Safari has been leaked into the wild, and has tabs -- though not fully implemented yet -- and primitive support for autocomplete in forms. The Think Secret rumor site has the scoop." It is not merely a rumor, I've confirmed it. It works nicely, too, in a brief test. Then I, uh, deleted the copy I looked at.
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Safari Beta Leaked, With Tabs

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  • Tabs and MDI (Score:5, Interesting)

    by GigsVT ( 208848 ) on Monday February 24, 2003 @09:48AM (#5369821) Journal
    The wide success of "Tabbed browsing", heralded in by Opera seems to indicate Microsoft was wrong to call MDI "depricated" and attempt to force users to a "document centric" rather than "application centric" view of the computer.

    Microsoft's implementation of MDI could easily be called confusing, with multiple sets of window control decorations so close together, however, I don't think that points as much to a fatal flaw in the idea of MDI, as it does to a flawed implementation. MDI has real life analogies too.

    Imagine your computer is a large shop, each application is a machine that does a certain function. It is perfectly natural to think in terms of "I need to lathe this piece of metal, so I'll to take it to the lathe. I can set other pieces I am going to lathe on the lathe table."

    Document centric is like, "OK I have metal, I need to run it through the lathe, so I will feed it into this huge machine that will try to guess what I want to do with it, and hopefully it will wind up on the lathe." It's very unnatural.
  • Re:Argument for tabs (Score:3, Interesting)

    by rufo ( 126104 ) <rufo@rufosan c h e z . c om> on Monday February 24, 2003 @10:03AM (#5369899)
    Yeah, but that might be something related to Chimera itself, not anything that Safari would take advantage of. Remember, the two browsers aren't anything like each other, so just because something works, doesn't work, or acts one way in one browser doesn't mean it will work anything like it in another.
  • Upside Down Tabs??? (Score:1, Interesting)

    by Anonymous Coward on Monday February 24, 2003 @10:07AM (#5369914)
    Maybe it's nit-picking, but the tabs look like they are hanging from the top edge, not attached to the window below it like Chimera does. Of course, if I wasn't nit-picking, I wouldn't be on /..
  • by X_Caffeine ( 451624 ) on Monday February 24, 2003 @10:21AM (#5369995)
    I hope that Apple is bright enough to have an option that forces all "open in new window" javascripts to "open in new tab." This is possible in Mozilla and Phoenix (but not Chimera), but requires a plug-in installation.

    I've seen many new users of tabbed browsing become baffled by new windows popping up all over the place. If tabbed browsing is to be integrated, it needs to be done right. This seems like the sort of humane interface element that Apple used to have a real knack for, but since OS X you never can quite be sure.
  • Re:Everyone? (Score:2, Interesting)

    by tamen ( 308656 ) on Monday February 24, 2003 @10:27AM (#5370025) Homepage
    Im also suprised about the availabillity of the new Safari Betas. It might be connected to the low file-size. The newest beta is only 2.5mb. Even people in modem-land will gladly download that. Compared to the multi-gig downloads real warez-hogs do every day this is peanuts.
  • Re:Windows Ho! (Score:2, Interesting)

    by tdemark ( 512406 ) on Monday February 24, 2003 @10:50AM (#5370143) Homepage
    Actually, it _might_ be worth it for Apple to port the apps over and sell them (maybe $99 for all but iDVD, $149 for all)

    Probably could generate a good revenue stream, get PC users "used" to Apple's interface, making them more apt to switch (plus, the fact the iLife apps are "free" with new Macs, and, except iDVD, free to existing Mac users doesn't hurt either).

    - Tony
  • by The Bum ( 597124 ) on Monday February 24, 2003 @11:20AM (#5370302)
    Now that Safari will presumably be getting tabs, the next feature that's needed is Keychain integration similar to that in Chimera. In fact, Keychain integration was #1 on my list (just ahead of tabs at #2) of new features I'd really like to see in Safari. Yeah, I know the Keychain will work for login dialogs and web sites that have been written to support it, but what makes Chimera really nice is that it'll use the Keychain for sites that don't explicitly support it.
  • Re:Everyone? (Score:2, Interesting)

    by CompVisGuy ( 587118 ) on Monday February 24, 2003 @12:41PM (#5370763)
    Thanks for the "link".

    The location of the beta is indeed as almost specified above.

    I now have tabs in Safari -- thanks.

    I was using Chimera, but it would crash after running for about a week (OK, so pretty reliable compared to some browsers...); although Chimera has tabs, it doesn't have many other features one expects from a browser (being all minimalist and stuff...). The Chimera team haven't released in a while due to legal issue with the Chimera name, but they say that version 0.7 is just around the corner, and I guess we can expect some significant changes. I'll certainly keep a copy of Chimera on my iBook (taking the total to ... 4 browsers now):

    * Safari v62
    * Chimera
    * Opera
    * IE (yeugh!)

    It'll be nice when Apple have completed Safari (it certainly won't be complete without tabs!), as 4 browsers is ridiculous!

    So, here's wishing luck to the Chimera and Safari projects!
  • by krray ( 605395 ) on Monday February 24, 2003 @12:57PM (#5370862)
    Wow. Apple listens. Day 1 I sent a bug report to them for their own website. I could see tabs on the site, but not in my browser?

    I wonder if they'll do one of my other requests. Sync'ing the bookmarks across .Mac connected systems. One bookmark file. Always managed. Always the same.
  • My feature (Score:3, Interesting)

    by papasui ( 567265 ) on Monday February 24, 2003 @01:26PM (#5371104) Homepage
    This would be something I'd like to see implemented (and many web masters probably would like to see not implemented). The ability to set a timer for a webpage to refresh, on an individual page basis. So on sites that I frequently view, I don't have to refresh constantly, I already know that the page has been reloaded recently. Web admins would probably hate this as it would put additional load on the server as the pages refresh, but I know it would make me happier. :)
  • Re:Tabs? of course (Score:3, Interesting)

    by mbbac ( 568880 ) on Monday February 24, 2003 @02:36PM (#5371704)
    Is version 1.0 out? Does it have tabs?

    No, and no?

    Well, then your hunch hasn't been proven correct yet. There is still time for the release version of Safari to have the tabs functionality removed from it or replaced with something more worthwhile. Features found in betas have been removed for finals before, you know.
  • Re:Oh? (Score:4, Interesting)

    by GlassHeart ( 579618 ) on Monday February 24, 2003 @03:08PM (#5371990) Journal
    [navigating web browser windows] just an area where the windows taskbar shines over the dock

    And in other cases, it doesn't. The Windows taskbar gets cluttered a lot more quickly than the Dock, because every window gets a "tab". I don't need a "tab" for the window I'm typing email in, because I don't type too many of them at the same time, so clicking the mail application icon is sufficient to switch back.

    This is why tabbed browsing, implemented in the browser, is better. It's available where it's needed, but doesn't clutter up other applications that don't need it. Perhaps Apple will update Cocoa so that Document-based applications can get tabbed navigation for free.

  • Re:Oh? (Score:3, Interesting)

    by phossie ( 118421 ) on Monday February 24, 2003 @04:04PM (#5372500)

    i find tabs provide a better model of the data i'm perusing. i often have a window devoted to a subject area, with tabs for all the pages within that area under that window. so for example i'll have one window open holding references, one with test cases, and another with mindless crap like slashdot. keeps me organized and efficient, and i don't have to scan [taskbar|dock] to be in the right place.

    it's the extra level of heirarchical organization that makes tabs killer for me. same reason i like the OS X columnar file browser. fast, transparent traversal.

  • by squiggleslash ( 241428 ) on Monday February 24, 2003 @05:28PM (#5373376) Homepage Journal
    Not exactly. Opera had a standard Windows MDI mode with a "task bar" at the bottom (which isn't a standard Windows MDI feature but is a fairly obvious feature to add.) It wasn't quite tabs, but was similar.

    The first implementation of tabs per se, IIRC, was GNOME/Mozilla's Galeon's. Tabs are the standard way of implementing MDI in GNOME, and someone thought it'd be a good idea to have them in Galeon. Note that this is different to being a straight copy of Opera - the innovation here was born from using GNOME's standard MDI technology to implement an MDI version of the browser. It wasn't that someone with extreme myopia saw someone clicking on buttons in Opera and switching between different pages and thought "Gracious, that person's using TABS to move around!" Aside from anything else, the Opera "task bar" buttons are at the bottom...

    It was Galeon's implementation that prove to be a roaring success and drove their adoption in other browsers.

    It's remarkable how, in the space of two years, a complete urban legend can originate about something where two minutes playing with the technologies and implementations would dispell such myths. Still, the technology industry seems to be littered with them...

  • by whee ( 36911 ) on Monday February 24, 2003 @06:36PM (#5374119)
    I've gathered some data and made graphs of Chimera versus Safari when dealing with tabs and windows. Memory usage and cumulative CPU time are measured, and compared.

    Have a looksie. []

"I prefer the blunted cudgels of the followers of the Serpent God." -- Sean Doran the Younger