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Technology (Apple) Businesses Microsoft Apple Technology

Rendezvous, Microsoft And Apple 484

serendigital writes "MacCentral reports that a BusinessWeek article entitled: 'A Rendezvous with Redmond?' has -- with Rendezvous -- created an actual threat to Microsoft. As reported by MacCentral, it's interesting to note that BusinesWeek's 'Byte of the Apple' columnist Charles Haddad is on temporary leave and this article was written by a substitute columnist."
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Rendezvous, Microsoft And Apple

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  • by leerpm ( 570963 ) on Monday February 10, 2003 @02:07PM (#5271948)
    They come out with the coolest technologies and they just work great!
  • Still, at the time many Apple observers reacted cautiously. "Cool app, but show me something real and meaty," seemed to be the general feeling.

    That's what she said.

    I can't believe I actually posted this. Wait...Yeah, I can.

  • On leave? Good (Score:3, Insightful)

    by Anonymous Coward on Monday February 10, 2003 @02:11PM (#5271979)
    > it's interesting to note that BusinesWeek's 'Byte of the Apple' columnist Charles Haddad is on temporary leave and this article was written by a substitute columnist.

    WHY is this interesting to note?? Charles Haddad is nothing but an apple apologist, a real zealot. Have you read his previous articles? They are all sugar-coated for Apple. He runs the Apple column at that site, so this is to be expected of course, but I prefer more objectivity.

    • by jcsehak ( 559709 ) on Monday February 10, 2003 @02:45PM (#5272321) Homepage
      Yeah, but it could be better.

      from the article: ...Bill's boxes to Steve's elegant machines.

      This is the kind of subjectivity that has no place in real journalism. Zealots are Apple's real threat. So many people hear "Apple" and think "using a Powerbook at a Starbucks, sipping a latte, dressed in black." Apple users are art-fags to them, and derogatory comments about "Windoze" aren't going to do anything but make it worse.

      How about some fucking objectivity? Lemmie give you a tip, Sparky - people will take you more seriously when you say "Apple's new technology poses a real threat to MS" if you don't follow it with "I'm getting a sex change so I could maybe have Steve's baby"
      • by Lysol ( 11150 ) on Monday February 10, 2003 @03:05PM (#5272462)
        Actually, if I could get a Linux laptop that did everything my Tibook does, I would. But there aren't any and most of the x86 laptops out there are trash.

        Apple's desktops are the sleekest or sexiest, but unless you home build you own whacked case with neon and shit, x86 desktops look like crap too.

        So I think his "Bill's boxes to Steve's elegant machines" hits the nail on the head. I still love my Linux boxen, but my Macs, for overall design and availibility of all the software I need, are better.
        • by luther ( 112387 )
          Actually, if I could get a Linux laptop that did everything my Tibook does, I would. But there aren't any and most of the x86 laptops out there are trash.

          Well, there is nothing stoping you from running Linux on your Tibook, you know.
      • by pohl ( 872 )
        people will take you more seriously when you say "Apple's new technology poses a real threat to MS" if you don't follow it with "I'm getting a sex change so I could maybe have Steve's baby"

        When did quotation marks become horribly-biased-paraphrase-marks? Was it about the same time that you said "I'm a pedophile"?

    • by 26199 ( 577806 ) on Monday February 10, 2003 @02:45PM (#5272327) Homepage

      That's the point. It's not written by the guy who is known to be a real zealot.

    • Charles Haddad is nothing but an apple apologist, a real zealot. Have you read his previous articles?
      No, but you can find them here [businessweek.com].
  • by wealthychef ( 584778 ) on Monday February 10, 2003 @02:14PM (#5271997)
    This single-sentence article does not parse for me. It seems to be claiming that an article in Business Week is a threat to Microsoft.
    • by Green Light ( 32766 ) on Monday February 10, 2003 @02:16PM (#5272020) Journal
      From the linked article:
      Apple is delivering on the immense potential of its no-fuss networking system. With luck, it could be a direct challenge to Microsoft
      Now, apparently, Apple needs "luck" in addition to all of its products and services...
    • Yeah, that's what I thought. It's why I bothered reading the story. The article has _created_ a threat to Microsoft? Because some important person read it and decided to migrate all the US govt computing infrastructure to Mac OS X so they could use Rendezvous? That would have been an interesting story. As it is, we have one article reporting that another article is reporting that Rendezvous has created an 'actual' threat to Microsoft.

      Question: which is the biggest proprietary software vendor for Apple machines?
  • Well, which is it? (Score:4, Insightful)

    by JLyle ( 267134 ) on Monday February 10, 2003 @02:14PM (#5271998) Homepage
    MacCentral reports that a BusinessWeek article entitled: 'A Rendezvous with Redmond?' has -- with Rendezvous -- created an actual threat to Microsoft.
    Did the BusinessWeek article create the threat, or did Apple?
  • VOIP (Score:5, Interesting)

    by spnbs ( 264432 ) on Monday February 10, 2003 @02:14PM (#5272001)
    The author suggests that Apple should release a Rendezvous enabled VOIP app. It seems to me that he's almost hit the nail on the head. Imagine if all new Macs came with not only that app, but also a phone jack that you could plug your telephone into. Maybe partner with a long distance company to provide a .Mac internet-to-phone calling plan! The possibilities are wide open for a company who owns the hardware, the software, and has little bit of capital.
  • by Aviancer ( 645528 ) on Monday February 10, 2003 @02:14PM (#5272007) Homepage Journal
    the real question is if this will dissapear into obscurity as JINI [sun.com] has (a similar technology using Java).
  • This is sad (Score:5, Interesting)

    by Anonymous Coward on Monday February 10, 2003 @02:18PM (#5272037)
    I work for a high-tech company, that must remain nameless, and in my work I talk to IT people on a regular basses across the U.S. I am astounded that most of these people even have jobs. I must however convey that every now and then I come across a person of the highest integrity and the ability to get the job done right. The sad part is, that this only happens in about one in twenty contacts, way too low of a number to have these people running our country. When they've been bad, I have no idea how the company is even running, but when they've been good, it's been crystal clear why they hold that position and are an asset to the computing world.

    Food for thought, when ever I converse with the people who do a great job and run they're IT department efficiently, and Apple/Macintosh is part of the conversation, they have no problem with it. I quote in a conversation just last Friday, "in our company we do what ever it takes to get the job done in the most efficient and effective way, at this time Mac's are not part of our makeup, but if that's the direction we need to go in the future, then we will. I am loyal to my company, not Microsoft and certainly not Dell.
  • by c13v3rm0nk3y ( 189767 ) on Monday February 10, 2003 @02:18PM (#5272039) Homepage

    I was pleasantly surprised when I noticed that "Pop-pop" is rendezvous-enabled. No need to "host" a game -- you just see each other, double-click to request a game.

    What is interesting is that even though "normal host a game over IP" stuff still works, and is dead-easy to config, rendezvous seems to be relatively easy to drop into an app.

    I was skeptical at first, but now I'm curious to see what neato things people will start to implement using rendezvous.

  • Security? (Score:3, Insightful)

    by g8oz ( 144003 ) on Monday February 10, 2003 @02:18PM (#5272041)
    How does that fit into Rendezvous?
    • by burgburgburg ( 574866 ) <<splisken06> <at> <email.com>> on Monday February 10, 2003 @02:40PM (#5272274)
      Since Rendezvous is based on Zeroconf, here [ietf.org] is an paper explaining how to secure a zerconf network. Perhaps this will slow the FUD.
    • Re:Security? (Score:4, Insightful)

      by Lethyos ( 408045 ) on Monday February 10, 2003 @02:43PM (#5272302) Journal
      How does security fit into DNS? Or any other low-level protocol? Does TCP authenticate your remote logins? No, but a protocol higher up on the stack does (like SSH). Rendezvous is a low-level protocol and does not deal with security. You can build an insecure web browser *g* as easily as you can an insecure Rendezvous app.

      Correct me if I am wrong. :-)
  • Sweet!!! (Score:5, Funny)

    by Anonymous Coward on Monday February 10, 2003 @02:18PM (#5272042)
    "You walked into a room bearing a laptop running Jaguar (the latest version of the OS X operating system) with a wireless networking (Wi-Fi) card, and you could instantly see the iTunes music files of everyone else in the room with a similar setup."


    -H. Rosen
  • ZeroConf on Linux? (Score:5, Interesting)

    by Phroggy ( 441 ) <.slashdot3. .at. .phroggy.com.> on Monday February 10, 2003 @02:18PM (#5272046) Homepage
    What's the state of ZeroConf on Linux? How long before the major distributions have out-of-the-box support for Rendezvous? What would be required to make that happen?

    Also, what exactly are the security implications? Obviously there are certain things you don't want to broadcast to just anybody! Rendezvous could make wardriving even easier...
    • That is easy, as soon as someone implements Rendezvous, seeing how it is open source... I love Apple!

      Nick Powers
    • by Anonymous Coward on Monday February 10, 2003 @04:33PM (#5273272)
      zcip [sourceforge.net] has been available in the kernel for more than a year. Last I looked, it hasn't received a great deal of fanfare. It is an incomplete implementation of the spec. Most of the recent updates have usually dealt with handling incompatibilities with Microsoft's incorrect implementation of zeroconf protocols in Windows.

      Remember that Rendezvous is really a packaging of three separate protocols, not just zeroconf. So full Rendezvous support in Linux requires more porting work.
  • by HarveyBirdman ( 627248 ) on Monday February 10, 2003 @02:21PM (#5272074) Journal

    Could the Belle of Cupertino and the Stud of Redmond be the hottest new couple on the Siliconwood stage? That's what this gossip reporter tried to find out this week, but alas there was little 411 to be found as intimate confidantes of both parties were tight lipped and mum!

    Apple and Microsoft we heard to be discussing a "rendezvous" of some sort. Could it be merely a business deal, or a romantic entanglement? Une telle excitation!

    Only time will tell, sassy tech fans! Maybe Microsoft can only tell us how Apple signs a contract. But if the stars favor romance as Valentine's Day (every geek's FAVORITE holiday!) approaches, perhaps Microsoft will learn if Apple cries out or sighs softly or squeals like a pig as she, well, consummates the deal, if you know what I mean.

    And I know you know, you naughty voyeurs! ;-) Une fessée sur le fond pour vous!

  • Rendevous is certainly a humungoesly great piece of software... however... i do NOT see it as a redmond killer even mixed with it's many abilities and supporters.


    because its open source...

    Ironicly this is in redmond favor.... since if they ever see it as a threat to themselves due to their lack of such a feature, they'll simply incorporate it... And with that the advantage apple had over MS is gone.

    With the major printers on board amongst others begining to support it.... I highly doubt it will take Bill long to make sure MS also supports it AND adds their own special "windows enhanced" features to it.

    This whole situation is anologous to when apple made the USB only imac.... in a time when USB was common, but USB products weren't.... Apple suddenly created a greatly under-supported market.... which suddenly rushed to fill the whole with plethras of USB devices.... that didn't even take a year to become predominatly PC.

    --Enter The Sig --

    • by artemis67 ( 93453 ) on Monday February 10, 2003 @03:22PM (#5272626)
      I believe the point that the author was making was that this is one more tool to reduce platform-dependence. The more freely programs and peripherals are able to communicate with one another across various platforms, the more Microsoft and Windows shrink into the background.

      That's why MS got all fired up about stomping Netscape into the ground, because the browser is supposed to enable platform-independent computing.

      Yeah, it's kind of a stretch to think of Rendezvous as a "Windows killer," but it's just one technology of many to accomplish that task.
  • by Ducon Lajoie ( 30475 ) on Monday February 10, 2003 @02:24PM (#5272097)
    This article is perfectible...

    The first thing Apple shipped using rendez-vous was iChat. The iTunes demo refered to has yet to ship. (you can get the same fuctionnality using iCommune though).

    Then, it's not that magical. It only works on one subnet, no way to manually add hosts to the resolver (at least not without serious hacking).

    What's the deal with Safari helping you change your printer config? IF your printer advertises itself as a web serveur via Rendez-vous, AND you ask safari to display Rendez-vous-discovered bookmarks, then yes, you can directly access the printer's config pages. But the article does not make this clear at all. And this is different from auto-discovering printers, which I have yet to test since the old HPs we use are still go for a couple hundred thousand pages.

    The wild guesses about distributed computing are still a pipe dream, Rendez-vous or not.

    And at work, somehow, aliases of Rendez-vous-mountedd servers won't resolve after unmounting the server. Aliases made of servers mounted via AFP or Appletalk will resolve and mount the server.

    Rendez-vous is cool, but it still has a long way to go before it is as polished (from a user POV) as the old Appletalk system.
  • by aarondsouza ( 96916 ) on Monday February 10, 2003 @02:26PM (#5272115)
    Sure this "instant networking" is all very cool, but for most geeks in the know, we *want* to be able to configure till we die.

    Security restrictions? Can I restrict the range of IP addresses that access my music folders? Password access? Encryption? I wanna tweak dammit! The problem with that is that as soon as you make the system more powerful and have all these geek-satisfying options, you need to be able to get down to the nuts and bolts of configuring it. Otherwise you end up in the same mess as MS, with users blindly enabling potentially insecure servers.
  • Microsoft's response (Score:5, Interesting)

    by burgburgburg ( 574866 ) <<splisken06> <at> <email.com>> on Monday February 10, 2003 @02:27PM (#5272124)
    Considering the extreme cost-savings inherent in zero-config networking like this, what is the most likely Microsoft response? The ones I can think of are:

    a) Ignore
    b) FUD
    c) Embrace/extend/destroy

    One important question: Does the Apple Public Source License (under which Rendezvous has been released) give Apple the ability to stop Microsoft from embracing/extending/destroying?

  • by weave ( 48069 ) on Monday February 10, 2003 @02:30PM (#5272170) Journal
    1) Nice in theory but in practice, in my best ellen feiss tone, "huh?" I have a mac in my office, and sure enough there is a list of rendevous printers available, all with names like "hplj542502260123" -- as if I'm supposed to know which one is where...

    2) Rendevous must be limited to a broadcast subnet. In my work site, subnets kind of snake all through the site due to historical reasons and growth over the years, so the subnet I am on spans two buildings, where across the hall those folks are on a different subnet. I know of a few cube office rooms where people in the same room are on two different subnets. Is there support in cisco routers to forward this traffic between nets? (or maybe that's not a good idea...)

    3) ok, i lied. three things. Since when did itunes get ability to pick up other rendevous user playlists? (mentioned in that article). I sure don't see it... Am I missing something?

  • by rpiquepa ( 644694 ) on Monday February 10, 2003 @02:32PM (#5272184) Homepage
    Charles Haddad is on leave for a while now. Alex Salkever, Technology editor for BusinessWeek Online, is replacing him since his last column, which appeared on November 13, 2002. So, he's not really "a substitute columnist." Since then, Salkever wrote several articles about Apple including "A Rendezvous with Redmond?". You can read What's with the Hassles from Apple? (January 29, 2003) [businessweek.com], THE Key to User-Friendly Computers? (January 22, 2003) [businessweek.com] or this other column [weblogs.com]), or Is Apple Getting Too Cool Again? (January 15, 2003) [businessweek.com].
  • PDF file on Apple (Score:4, Informative)

    by nyc_paladin ( 534862 ) on Monday February 10, 2003 @02:37PM (#5272242)
    Here is a PDF file [akamai.net] that explains the technology behind this a little better...but does not go into too much detail regarding security. It sounds like you can choose what you want to share.
  • by mbone ( 558574 ) on Monday February 10, 2003 @02:42PM (#5272284)
    Rendezvous is not just an Apple product - it is on the way to being an Internet standard, with an IETF working group [ietf.org] and two Internet drafts in progress - one on Auto configuration of hosts [ietf.org] and the other on the Dynamic configuration of IP Addresses [ietf.org].

    At the ZeroConf WG meetings I have been to, Microsoft was very much present, so I assume that they are well aware of this technology.
  • by artemis67 ( 93453 ) on Monday February 10, 2003 @02:42PM (#5272288)
    The big criticism of of AppleTalk was that it was too chatty (really, I think the issue was overblown, but that was the reputation it picked up). And yet, Rendezvous seems to be doing a lot of the same things that AppleTalk was doing.

    Has Rendezvous really addressed the issue that got AppleTalk locked out of a lot of corporate networks? I wonder how it compares to AT.
  • by tds ( 128757 ) on Monday February 10, 2003 @02:49PM (#5272352) Homepage
  • trade shows (Score:3, Insightful)

    by DdJ ( 10790 ) on Monday February 10, 2003 @03:00PM (#5272418) Homepage Journal
    Personally, I think Rendezvous is going to revolutionize the trade show floor.

    The trade show wireless network a small local network, the sort Rendezvous works with. Vendors and consultants will be able to promote themselves by having web sites and servers advertise themselves. You'll be able to find FTP or file servers and grab demo versions of products. You'll be able to chat with representatives. You'll be able to grab contact information into your address book and product release calendars into iCal. Who knows what else?
  • by Offwhite98 ( 101400 ) on Monday February 10, 2003 @03:03PM (#5272442) Homepage
    If Apple creates a Rendezvous implementation for Windows I fail to see how Apple's market share will grow. It will enable PC users to get the benefits of Rendezvous without owning a Mac. It will also allow existing Mac users connect with their PC using co-workers and friends. And since it is a completely open technology the PC users will not even need a Mac involved at all. So that begs the questions, how will this benefit Apple?

    Apple does not make money by packaging software and making it available for everyone to use freely. Sure they get to innovate and make their customers happy, but it does not win them more customers. This article seems to imply that creating cool technology and implementing it on a PC will help Apple. There needs to be some proprietary software in place for this to be true.

    Now if they created a Rendezvous implementation for corporate environments and a Software Development Kit to be used by companies like IBM. At work I use Lotus Notes which has a messenger client. I would like to automatically find co-workers without all of the initial setup that I had to do when I started using it. I would also like to be able to monitor the servers on the network and use the printers more easily. If Apple could sell software to do all of that, and perhaps sell XServe systems with it I bet that would benefit Apple.

    I really hope Apple does break into the corporate workplace. It would really simplify much of extra work that I do so I can get back to my real work.
  • by amarodeeps ( 541829 ) <dave@dubitabl e . c om> on Monday February 10, 2003 @03:04PM (#5272460) Homepage

    I'm seeing a lot of knee-jerk reactions about Rendezvous and security. People are assuming that because the protocol is about making certain types of network configuration dynamic and simple, it is necessarily insecure. Well, I've got news for you: any type of connection from one computer to another is creating security issues. I mean...duh. Now, clearly using something like the zeroconf protocol is going to require stuff like...passwords and encryption and all the usual nonsense we need to make things secure. Oh, and a competent sysadmin administrating the system. So can we cool it with the frothing?

    Now, if someone had some good comments on the security issues involved with the zeroconf protocol [zeroconf.org] itself, I'd like to read about it [cisco.com].

  • Rendezvous ROCKS (Score:5, Interesting)

    by phillymjs ( 234426 ) <slashdotNO@SPAMstango.org> on Monday February 10, 2003 @04:06PM (#5273032) Homepage Journal
    The best demo of Rendezvous currently is iChat. I used it to wow one of my clients back in December when I upgraded them to Jaguar. They were always having to e-mail files back and forth to one another, blah blah blah.

    Now, they just launch iChat when they log in in the morning, and boom-- instant, zero-config buddy list of everyone in the department. Need to ask someone a question? No more hollering over cubes or using the phone, a quick IM does the trick. Need to send someone a file? No more e-mailing or putting it on the server for the person who needs it. Drag it and drop it onto their name in the buddy list, and they'll get a dialog, "Person wants to send you file filename, do you wish to accept?"

    The only people who think something like this is a bad thing are the ignorant ones. OF COURSE the devices that use Rendezvous will OFFER security and configurability options-- but the point is, you don't NEED them if all you want to do is get on a network and print to a networked printer. And you don't need to have silly little wizards walk you through the process. Rendezvous is the logical extension of Apple's whole 'it just works' philosophy, and is a wonderful modern incarnation of AppleTalk.

  • Zorkconf! (Score:4, Funny)

    by Sentry21 ( 8183 ) on Monday February 10, 2003 @11:03PM (#5276498) Journal
    This is great! You could set up a rendezvous-enabled console app that would be able to describe to you the services available to you in whatever room you were in. Just imagine the possibilities! Let's say you took your laptop to a new company...

    *user walks into a room*
    Frobozz Magic Smoke Company Lobby
    You have entered the lobby of the Frobozz Magic Smoke Company. This building was constructed in the year 1998, by ten thousand slaves working for the Great Underground Empire, to hold the offices of the workers designing and implementing new forms of magic smoke.

    > look
    You see two broken web terminals, a secured file server, and a print server. One of the secretaries is chatting about how she got her nails done the other day.

    *user walks north into the Human Resources department*

    Human Resources
    The Human Resources department of the Frobozz Magic Smoke Company is widely considered to be the cruelest, most inhuman lot of soulless minions ever to serve the will of evil.

    > look
    You see two printers, a Sybase server, a Graphite G4, a speed-hole G4, and a voicephone.

    > look G4
    Do you mean the Graphite G4 or the speed-hole G4?

    > graphite
    The Graphite G4 is sharing two directories, marked 'music' and 'porn', and has 82% CPU free.

    The potential is amazing! Go Apple!


VMS must die!