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uClinux Ported to the iPod 213

ucdot writes "Here is the announcement for a port of uClinux to the Apple iPod, checkout the project page for extra details. Currently the frame buffer, audio and IDE devices are working. Still plenty of work to do."
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uClinux Ported to the iPod

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  • I'm not trying to be sarcastic. I really am curious. The links are a bit light on the practical side of it.
    • by cioxx ( 456323 ) on Tuesday February 04, 2003 @07:35AM (#5221812) Homepage
      Ogg vorbis support via Tremor decoder, for one.

      Or you can install apache on it and serve webpages. It'll still be more stable than IIS.
    • by Anonymous Coward on Tuesday February 04, 2003 @07:52AM (#5221847)
      first off, I don't see that this has been done for anything other than a bit of fun. the pleasure of the hack. However, going a bit further... ...part of the iPods appeal to me is the multipurpose aspect. It's not just a music player, it's a -fast- external HD. Now that's well and good, but more features never hurt.

      Adding in the possibility of tcp over firewire gives you, essentially, an entire portable linux box that's a good sized firewire HD, music player, and terminal-accessible machine with a battery life measured in DAYS.

      That doesn't mean it could ever completely replace a good laptop for example, but to me a lot of the little uses of a piece of hardware are those that go beyond what it was designed/made/intended for.

      It is what it is, and someone shall find a use for it. And it's cool :)
      • Just to check, where did the battery life in "DAYS" come from? Leaving mine on and not playing anything only lasts a little over 20 hours.
        • Just to check, where did the battery life in "DAYS" come from?

          If you're doing TCP over Firewire, and you've got it plugged into a proper 6-pin Firewire port (not one of those wussy iLink things), it's not even using the battery. Days? How about months?

      • That's what I'm talking about.

        I have been considering picking up an iPod for a while, but I have been holding out on the hopes that Apple will realize this potential and modify the iPod so that it can be used as a digital locker for not only my MP3s, but my digital photos and movies as well.

        Imagine how slick it would be to connect your camera directly to your iPod and download all of your photos. This would be a great feature if you are on vacation for a couple of weeks and you don't want to drag your laptop along.

        If this project gets off the ground, maybe we won't have to wait for Apple :)
    • Once you have control over the OS you can run almost any software you want on it. You could turn it into a complete organizer, not just a portable audio player and storage device.
    • by drunkenbatman ( 464281 ) <i@drunkenblog.c3.14om minus pi> on Tuesday February 04, 2003 @08:28AM (#5221935) Homepage
      And this is useful, how?

      What a curious statement... I bet they had a lot of fun creating it and learned a ton in the process. Since when does hacking something have to be useful? :)

      It didn't exist before, and they made it exist, even if all it will ever do is show the penguin logo. Kudos to them.

      At the same time, you could fit a lot of iPods in a server rack...

    • by biglig2 ( 89374 ) on Tuesday February 04, 2003 @10:02AM (#5222397) Homepage Journal
      I have to say that this is potentially a hell of a lot more practical than hundreds of other odd projects to port Linux to wierd hardware.

      Some ideas, most of which are based around the principle that this allows the Linux community to add features to the pod that apple haven't gotten round to yet:

      Stuff Apple might very well do anyway:
      Ogg support, and perhaps other freaky formats.
      Playlist editing on the Pod

      Stuff Apple are very unlikely to do:
      Ipod's store the files on the disk but name them randomly so you cannot access them easily when it is operating as a firewire drive; a TuxPod (I'll want royalties on that name please) could store them as regular files so you no longer need special software to load a pod up and can use it to play your songs on a PC without needing to keep a copy on the PC.
      It should be possible to put something together to allow you to use the scroll wheel to enter text (I'm thinking something like the system Stephen Hawking uses to enter text into his voice synth) making it capable of all sorts of PDA functions.
      AvantGo client.
  • Ogg support (Score:1, Interesting)

    by Anonymous Coward
    It plays Ogg at about 80% realtime - hopefully not too long before that's up to 100% and an iPod will become acceptable to open source fasc^H^H^H ^H advocates.
  • ... this seriously rocks!

    All thats needed now is a port of libogg, and away we go! Well done Bernhard!!!
    • This is good news! I am eagerly waiting for the first portable HD-based player with both .ogg and Linux support... I'll happily buy the first one that comes along. I hope it's the IPod :)

      I know that a lot of my friends are waiting for the same thing, why don't any of the major vendors realize that there's a market here? Maybe it's not big enough... I have tried mailing companies to get some information on whether any of them plan to support Linux or .ogg, but haven't got a lot of replies so far.

  • Impressive (Score:1, Interesting)

    by amigaluvr ( 644269 )
    Now this is an impressive development.

    The iPod can be improved dramatically with custom configurations the likes of which couldn't be done before.

    Along with correct Ogg support, comes full control over a very good piece of hardware inside. It's a pity about the lack of features on the buttons at the front, but I'm sure a good coder can knock up something useful from that. Perhaps even a firewire keyboard hack to help searching tunes?

    This will give Apple a run for their money.
    • by Carthag ( 643047 ) on Tuesday February 04, 2003 @08:08AM (#5221888) Homepage
      This will give Apple a run for their money.

      How so? You still need to actually buy the iPod from Apple...

    • Re:Impressive (Score:2, Insightful)

      by Rcknight ( 640267 )

      This will give Apple a run for their money.

      I dont see your logic there, u need an ipod to run it on, Apple still get the money.

      • Well there will of course be competition for the OS it is running. You can run apples own software or you can run uClinux which will have more features. To compete apple will have to continuously add more features to the iPod to stay competitive.
        • Re:Impressive (Score:5, Insightful)

          by troc ( 3606 ) <troc AT mac DOT com> on Tuesday February 04, 2003 @08:24AM (#5221928) Homepage Journal
          not really..... Apple are fundamentally a hardware company, they only have software on the iPod so people will buy an iPod. They probably don't really mind what software people run s long as it's an iPod that Apple sold 'em ;)

          They can't even be pushing Mac-only compatibility as they sell a Windows version etc etc.

          So will Apple be miffed if you buy an iPod and install a random os on it? I doubt it, just like they don't send the boys round when you buy a Mac an install Yellow Dog or something.

          • Re:Impressive (Score:3, Insightful)

            by NaugaHunter ( 639364 )
            Actually, how they react might depend on what can be done with the software. While they didn't make it impossible to get mp3's back off of it, they didn't make it easy either. If the work looks like it might get them flak, they may react or in the very least put out the message that installing unauthorized software violates the warranty, and possibly a license. Don't have one {sniff} so I'm not sure about any licenses, and I don't recall that they have much of a manufacture's warranty, but issuing a statement to that effect would probably be the least offensive method of covering they're butts.
        • Re:Impressive (Score:2, Insightful)

          Whether you put a new OS on it or not, the OS that Apple puts on (which is made by Pixo [] by the way) will be on before you even buy it. You'll be paying Apple the same amount no matter what you do.
          • Prove it. Many people say that Apple doesn't make the software for the iPod but I have yet to see one shred of evidence saying that. I am well aware that the chip in the iPod is made by another company who does make software to go with said chip, but I don't see the likelihood of handing off the OS to be made by someone else, especially not from Apple's perspective on all things UI.
        • Well there will of course be competition for the OS it is running.
          Not really. When you buy an iPod from apple you get a hardware device and the installed software. You can't buy a device with no software for a discount.

          Calling aftersale modifications competition is like saying that because I could put an aftermarket exhaust on my car that there's competition in the mini exhaust market. There isn't.

  • Very impressive. I thought it could be a hoax at first. Finally a way to get Ogg Vorbis on the iPod?
  • by Anonymous Coward on Tuesday February 04, 2003 @07:47AM (#5221836)
    when i got the nomad jukebox it was ok, but i had to trade up for the beautiful UI of the iPod.

    the only thing i miss about the NJB is the ability to make realtime playlists, and to be able to delete songs away from the computer. i would love to see that come to my iPod via this port!!!

    also a dual boot would be incredible, but doubt the 2 firmwares could co-exist unless the firmware would be a booter (ala lilo or grub), and the iPod/Linux firmware be made virtual and put onto the ide harddrive.
    • and to be able to delete songs away from the computer. i would love to see that come to my iPod

      Ok, describe to me a situation where I can't wait to get home to erase a song. I mean, if the pod isn't plugged in a computer, you can't very well add stuff to it, so you don't need the extra room.

      Extra features are allways fun, but I don't see how this one would be usefull...
      Hell, it would just make me nervous about letting my friends play with it.
      • I like to preview albums before adding them to my permanent collection. The ability to mark an album as crap (or perhaps more usefully as techo, downbeat, ethnic) would be great on the move. I don't have an iPod, so I don't know whether such mark-up is possible, but being able to delete albums would be the minimally useful thing.
    • Also, some of the Nomad Jukebox series can record MP3s and AIFFs. This feature alone made me not go with an iPod even though I really wanted one. I actually ended up with an Archos unit. I feel a little gyped, though, because getting a Firewire connection for it costs an additional $70.
  • UI (Score:2, Interesting)

    by Anonymous Coward
    once more mature, wonder how the legal implications of "look n feel" would be determined since you are confined to such a narrow user input. apple made the UI so sexy, that it would be hard not to emulate it.
    • Re:UI (Score:4, Funny)

      by Keith_Beef ( 166050 ) on Tuesday February 04, 2003 @10:49AM (#5222691)
      apple made the UI so sexy, that it would be hard not to emulate it

      Surely you mean apple made the UI so sexy, that it would be hard not to play with it

    • The distro comes with a few pieces of sticky red sandpaper to cover the working control surfaces. If that does not change the look and feel, I'm not sure what will.

      Just another small improvement from the free software world.

  • The screenshots (Score:5, Informative)

    by Anonymous Coward on Tuesday February 04, 2003 @07:51AM (#5221846)
    For anyone bored to check their website here are the two screenshots they include.

    1 []


    2 []
  • Way to revert? (Score:3, Interesting)

    by szo ( 7842 ) on Tuesday February 04, 2003 @07:58AM (#5221862)
    I think an important question is (and I didn't find the answer in the article) that can I put back the original software?

    • Re:Way to revert? (Score:3, Informative)

      by mikeplokta ( 223052 )
      You can download software installers for both the Windows and Mac versions of the iPod from Apple, that will do a complete reformat and install. You can convert a Windows iPod to Mac and vice versa, and I'm sure they'll also reinstall over a Linux installation.
      • Despite the fruityness of their computers, Apple won't go both ways. []

        I'm not sure if everyone can access that, so here it is:

        Question 9: Can I use my existing iPod for Mac on a PC, or my iPod for Windows on a Mac?

        Answer: You can reformat your iPod for Windows into an iPod for Mac, but it is not possible to reconfigure your iPod for Mac to an iPod for Windows. This is because Windows does not support the HFS+ file system and therefore will not see the drive.
        You can convert your iPod for Windows into an iPod for Mac by using the iPod for Mac Software Updater on the Apple website. Note that once it is reformatted, it will only work with Macs. You need Mac OS 9.2 or Mac OS X version 10.1 or later to reformat an iPod for Windows into an iPod for Mac.
        Using the iPod for Mac on a PC, or using the iPod for Windows on a Mac, is not supported by Apple.

    • Re:Way to revert? (Score:5, Informative)

      by mccalli ( 323026 ) on Tuesday February 04, 2003 @08:07AM (#5221882) Homepage
      I think an important question is (and I didn't find the answer in the article) that can I put back the original software?

      Yes, more info in the FAQ []. See section 4.1 for the bit on reloading Apple firmware.

      I'm really very interested in tracking this - my iPod is behaving horribly with VBR-encoded files (firmware 1.2.1, mine cuts off the end of the track if you pause or fast forward/rewind) and short of re-ripping 40Gigs-worth I'm stuck without a solution. Quite keen to see what happens here.


      • Re:Way to revert? (Score:3, Informative)

        by BrotherPope ( 8102 )
        my iPod is behaving horribly with VBR-encoded files (firmware 1.2.1, mine cuts off the end of the track if you pause or fast forward/rewind)

        This is, AFAIK, a known problem with MP3's without the Xing VBR header. There are utilities out there to 'repair' your existing mp3's to add the appropriate header. My experience with just such a tool was a success (but it was such a pain that I didn't bother doing it with the whole library yet).

        • This is, AFAIK, a known problem with MP3's without the Xing VBR header. There are utilities out there to 'repair' your existing mp3's

          Excellent - thanks a lot for this. Could you please let me know the name of the tool you used?


    • The FAQ [] says you can. You can find out more if you read it.
    • So important in fact, that it made the FAQ (try RTFA):

      4.1 Can I still run the Apple firmware?
      Assuming a backup is made of the original firmware it is possible to roll-back the firmware to the original so that it can be used. It is intended that eventually a small uClinux application will also allow direct loading of the original firmware
  • Look's really nice, but only the Windows iPod (with FAT32) is supported. Wonder if there will be support for the Mac iPod (with HFS+).

    • Re:Windows iPod only (Score:5, Informative)

      by mikeplokta ( 223052 ) on Tuesday February 04, 2003 @08:07AM (#5221886)
      As long as you've got access to a Windows machine with Firewire, you can convert a Mac iPod to Windows by using the Windows iPod software installer from Apple. And it'll still work on the Mac -- Windows iPods work just fine with Macs, although not vice versa -- the only thing you lose is the desktop icon.
    • Look's really nice, but only the Windows iPod (with FAT32) is supported. Wonder if there will be support for the Mac iPod (with HFS+).

      Does Linux have HFS+ support yet? I know HFS support has been there for a long time, but I don't remember seeing HFS+. I would think this would be the only problem.

      It's been, what, five years since HFS+ came out?
  • Very good work (Score:4, Insightful)

    by ites ( 600337 ) on Tuesday February 04, 2003 @08:00AM (#5221869) Journal
    Apple's reaction will be interesting. If they jump on these developers, they will be sending a strong message about exactly what they are selling with the iPod. If - and I think this is more likely - they ignore or even help the project, the iPod will become immensely popular.
    Ogg support (or even just a shell prompt!) would be reason enough for me to buy the iPod today.
    Hope this message gets through to Apple.
    So, what's next: will some intelligent company build a DVD player that can be extended with IDE drives internally and run Linux so that we can load it with mplayer and freenet and build that "your grandmother can fileshare" set-top DVD/VR I'm dreaming about?
    • or even just a shell prompt!
      mp3decoder - | ls | grep '.*\.mp3'
      *shakes head and realises I really am a nerd.*
    • If - and I think this is more likely - they ignore or even help the project, the iPod will become immensely popular.
      iPod is already immensely popular. The amount of extra sales generated to people like you who are impressed by the "hackability", and who wouldn't otherwise have bought one, would number in the hundreds. This is not a reason not to stomp on the developers. Having said that, stomping on developers costs money and I can't see any reason that they might justify that expenditure.

      • Re:Very good work (Score:2, Interesting)

        by darien ( 180561 )
        I have maybe five friends planning to buy an mp3 player within the next year. At the moment I'm telling them that my iPod has a much better UI than the Nomad Zen, but it's decidedly more expensive and the sound is a little muddier, particularly at high volume. If I could also say "but on the iPod you can easily install a third party OS on it that lets you store 33% more songs and play games on it," I think that would swing at least three or four extra sales for Apple among my friends alone. And I'm sure they'd tell their workmates etc.
      • Re:Very good work (Score:2, Insightful)

        by Peer ( 137534 )
        Apple will not be too bothered with people installing linux on their iPod. What may worry them is the piracy implications. The RIAA will be the first too notify Apple they are allowing malicious 'hackers' to share copyrighted materials using the iPod. Let's hope they're not impressed.
        On the other hand, they don't mind the song copying-software.
        • I think with Ad campaigns like Rip Mix Burn Apple doesn't give a hoot about what the RIAA thinks.

          I though Apple's anti piracy and DRM measures on the iPod cover whatever hacks get installed (if you don't know the anti piracy measures are a sticker on the box the iPod comes in saying "Don't steal music".

    • Apple's reaction will be interesting. If they jump on these developers, they will be sending a strong message about exactly what they are selling with the iPod.

      From the uClinux webpage:

      Unfortunately the iPod is considered a "closed-platform" by Apple and technical info is virtually non-existant so this has involved a fair bit of guess work, reverse-engineering and experimentation!

      If they aren't an authorized Apple developer, and they've completely reverse-engineered everything (because of a lack of documentation), then what can Apple legally do?

      Keep in mind that the last person that Apple brought the hammer down on (for iCommune) was an actual Apple developer with Apple documentation, so Apple had a little bit of leverage on him. Whether it would have truly been successful in court is another matter...

      Frankly, I can't see Apple doing anything about this. It's not going to threaten their current iPod plans, and it's going to be a marginal group of users who will attempt to install this.
  • by interactive_civilian ( 205158 ) <mamoru&gmail,com> on Tuesday February 04, 2003 @08:02AM (#5221873) Homepage Journal
    This is really freaking cool!!! (though I'm not going to install it until it matures). Makes me wish I had the time and knowledge to contribute to this project. Unfortunately, I am lacking in both, so the only thing I can do is put out a few requests to the hackers out there:

    1. Get it to continue working with iTunes. Imagine, once this matures and the music capabilities are running at full speed, how nice it will be to be able to sync and use both your ogg vorbis and mp3 files on the iPod using iTunes to organize everything.

    2. Figure out the remote pin-outs, so hardware hackers, or at least those with soldering skill can make their own remotes. I'm thinking I would like to modify my snowboarding jacket since I can't afford that Burton/Apple iPod jacket. Granted, this request goes out to anyone who is interested as it really doesn't have anything to do with the iPod linux project. If I can find some time, I may look into it myself.

    If anyone has any info on the above, please feel free to chime in. Oh, yeah, and I noticed this from the FAQ []. Perhaps this can waylay all of the "WHY?!?" trolls:

    1.2 Why would you do that?
    A number of reasons but mainly because its there.

    Cheers. :)

  • by Op7imus_Prim3 ( 645940 ) on Tuesday February 04, 2003 @08:17AM (#5221912) Homepage Journal
    "uClinux comes equipped with a full TCP/IP stack, as well as support for numerous other networking protocols"

    I can see it now. Two geeks in a bar looking at each others linux equipped ipods. One pulls out a firewire cable and says "I'll share you mine if you share me yours"

    • wanne bet you gonne be able to play quake on it before it plays mp3/ogg's ?
    • by darien ( 180561 )
      It's a good point though. Apple may get nervous if this enables you to plug two iPods together and copy files between them - as I suppose it inevitably must. That would make the iPod incredibly convenient for domestic music "piracy." It would also provide a compelling argument for everyone to get an iPod, rather than something else that won't let you copy songs off your friends in the pub. Tricky.
      • I don't see why Apple would care if someone gets firewire file-sharing working. They are not in the music business. Unlike other conglomerates (Sony) they don't know any music company/publisher.

        Yeah, I know they've turned off some peep to peer software that run on top of iTunes but only to avoid a lawsuit. If someone takes an ipod, install another OS altogether and does filesharing with that seems to be more or less out of Apple's hands.
    • You don't need TCP/IP for that, only firewire.
  • by Christopher Bibbs ( 14 ) on Tuesday February 04, 2003 @08:43AM (#5221989) Homepage Journal
    Why is the penguin on their website stoned? Was he making one of the switch ads too?
  • Reading the release notes indicates that only the Windows version of the iPod is supported. Additionally the build environment has to be a PC running Linux. Which means that the majority of iPod owners using Macs are excluded at the moment.

    Further research indicates that at the moment neither MP3 nor Ogg playback are working in real-time, partially due to the iPod lacking an FPU. There is no support at present for the Firewire port either.

    So, what use can be made from a Linux system with 5 control buttons, a dial control and a locking switch as input and a low-res mono display and audio as output? Not a lot, really. It's not even much use as a games platform emulator.
  • MP3 Decoder? (Score:3, Interesting)

    by Komarosu ( 538875 ) <nik_doof@n[ ] ['ikd' in gap]> on Tuesday February 04, 2003 @09:18AM (#5222140) Homepage
    Just a thought...

    Doesn't the iPod have a hardware decoder for mp3? If so why don't they think about making a device for this in the kernel...maybe so it would be possible just to cat > /dev/mp3 ? The idea of using a software decoder on something i think has a hardware decoder just seems a little....uselsss?
  • by CaptCanuk ( 245649 ) on Tuesday February 04, 2003 @09:26AM (#5222172) Journal
    You know the developer is a slashdot frequent when you read the FAQ.

    "3.4 Can you imagine a Beowolf cluster...
    There was an April fools about a bunch of Buddhists ordering a heap of iPods. Too bad... if it were true perhaps they could have clustered them to solve the ancient mysteries...

    Translation, yes, but its just silly. "

  • Why? Well... (Score:3, Insightful)

    by h0tblack ( 575548 ) on Tuesday February 04, 2003 @09:47AM (#5222300)
    At the moment much of the possibilities for the hardware in the iPod is going unused, for whatever reasons.
    It's difficult to tell exactly what the out-of-the-box features are, as precise details are closed... but:
    There's a PP5002B-C in there, and the PP5002 product brief(pdf) [] states support for mp3 encoding, and decoding of mp3, wma, wma, aac and formats. Of course, Apple use custom firmware which may not have all of these facilities.
    There's also been talk of using the iPod for direct sharing over firewire. There's possibility of using IP-over-Firewire and running a webserver on the thing. There's a lot of fun possibilities out there, especially if a few more hackers get on board, although no alternative firmware will gain popularity until it has a simple UI, one of the things apple tend to be rather good at.
    There's obviously a fair way to go with this uClinux project, and I'd expect much of it's initial progress has been made thanks to the ARM7TDMI port [] of UClinux - I'm not belittling the hard work of Bernard Leach here. The current mp3 and ogg playback is probably not as optimised as it could be with full knowledge of the portalplayer chip and the rest of the iPod's hardware. It would be great if information on the hardware would be opened up, but I don't see this happening for a while, in the mean time, get this man an official FDK!! (or maybe not, because of them damn legal issues).
    All things said, looks like a great start, just wish I had an iPod....
  • From the FAQ:
    Since we are running on uClinux the
    fork() system call is not supported.
    If so, how do you run anything? I though the only way to execute an app was with fork()...exec()...wait()?
  • Bleh. (Score:4, Insightful)

    by dasmegabyte ( 267018 ) <> on Tuesday February 04, 2003 @10:57AM (#5222736) Homepage Journal
    You know, this isn't very useful. We already have linux based mp3 devices that are far cheaper than the iPod. The iPod's appeal is that it acts as a tool, not a computer...that is, it's simple and performs its duty infallibly. Adding a bunch of hacked features to it may be cool to some, but to me it's basically eliminating all the appeal of this type of mobile jukebox.

    I mean, come on. We all laugh when we see a porsche with a big coffee can exhaust pipe slapped onto it. This is the same idea -- taking the expensive, high quality "performance player" in the market, and rendering it an alpha-quality linux box. All for the sake of playing OGG files, which you can't even generate with iTunes.

    For $500, you can get a fucking sweet linux box. Or you can get an iPod. Don't wreck the latter trying to get the former.
    • Calm down, sugar. He did it for the same reason others build their own robots rather than buying an Aibo. It's a toy. Nobody's going to take your precious Apple firmware off your iPod.
    • You could add the few lacking things from the iPod firmware such as on-the-fly creation of playlists, more PC friendly database/naming convention. You could implement a better shuffle (does anyone else find the iPod's shuffle is not very random?)

      You could play Ogg! (It already does at 80% realtime)

      You could also do some very slick stuff with the TCP/IP stack. i.e. configure it from a web browser or something. (Unfortunately you'd need a long Firewire cable)

      I recommend they emulate the existing interface, it's quick slick. But it would be fun to experiment with other things such as circular menus that you select by scrolling around circularly.

      All in all, it's damn cool with a lot of possibilities.

  • Does this mean that the GNU/iPod (lol) will be able to play OGG files?
  • I have been thinking about using an iPod for storage of files that aren't music-related. Specifically, I'd love to be able to use it as a hard drive to dump extra images that I take from my digital camera when I'm on the road. Unfortunately, most hardware solutions to this (including the iPod) involve using the external unit as a slave -- that is, I can only SEND data to it, I can't initiage a GET.

    This means that the only way to dump data from my camera (which has both USB and FireWire) is to connect it to a laptop -- cumbersome and overkill, I think. Now that Linux has been ported to the iPod, would it be possible to use it in this way?
    • I have been thinking about using an iPod for storage of files that aren't music-related. Specifically, I'd love to be able to use it as a hard drive to dump extra images that I take from my digital camera when I'm on the road.

      I was going to say that the Archos [] with Rockbox [] would do that, but then I remembered that its USB2 is a slave-mode device. But my gf uses it as a music player and a handy 20GB sneakernet device.

      From the FAQ []:
      Can I use the Archos as an USB harddisk to store data from my PDA/ digital camera/phone etc. No. USB is a master/slave protocol, and both the Archos and your device are slaves. Two slaves cannot communicate without a master (usually a PC). (An upcoming extension called USB On-The-Go will let slaves communicate without a master, but current Archoses will not be able to support that.)

      So it's Firewire only for your camera, it seems...
    • I had exactly the same thought, that I could use my iPod while travleing to dump images. Either being able to pull them from a camera via Firewire or auto-copying a card of pictures over from a firewire CF reader.

      Looking at the FAQ, it looks like firewire support for the iPod is not there yet, but they plan to eventually support it... so it's still a while before an image copying app will be around, I think.

  • Dupe (Score:4, Funny)

    by JUSTONEMORELATTE ( 584508 ) on Tuesday February 04, 2003 @12:37PM (#5223445) Homepage
    This article is a dupe of a story that Taco is going to post a few hours from now []

We gave you an atomic bomb, what do you want, mermaids? -- I. I. Rabi to the Atomic Energy Commission