uClinux Ported to the iPod 213
ucdot writes "Here is the announcement for a port of uClinux to the Apple iPod, checkout the project page for extra details. Currently the frame buffer, audio and IDE devices are working. Still plenty of work to do."
And this is useful, how? (Score:1, Insightful)
Re:And this is useful, how? (Score:4, Funny)
Or you can install apache on it and serve webpages. It'll still be more stable than IIS.
Re:And this is useful, how? (Score:3, Interesting)
Re:And this is useful, how? (Score:2)
Re:And this is useful, how? (Score:1)
--
Wink Wink Nudge Nudge Say No More!
Re:And this is useful, how? (Score:5, Insightful)
Adding in the possibility of tcp over firewire gives you, essentially, an entire portable linux box that's a good sized firewire HD, music player, and terminal-accessible machine with a battery life measured in DAYS.
That doesn't mean it could ever completely replace a good laptop for example, but to me a lot of the little uses of a piece of hardware are those that go beyond what it was designed/made/intended for.
It is what it is, and someone shall find a use for it. And it's cool
Re:And this is useful, how? (Score:3, Insightful)
Re:And this is useful, how? (Score:2)
If you're doing TCP over Firewire, and you've got it plugged into a proper 6-pin Firewire port (not one of those wussy iLink things), it's not even using the battery. Days? How about months?
Re:And this is useful, how? (Score:2, Interesting)
I have been considering picking up an iPod for a while, but I have been holding out on the hopes that Apple will realize this potential and modify the iPod so that it can be used as a digital locker for not only my MP3s, but my digital photos and movies as well.
Imagine how slick it would be to connect your camera directly to your iPod and download all of your photos. This would be a great feature if you are on vacation for a couple of weeks and you don't want to drag your laptop along.
If this project gets off the ground, maybe we won't have to wait for Apple
Re:And this is useful, how? (Score:3, Insightful)
Re:And this is useful, how? (Score:4, Informative)
It does this already. iSync lets you store Address Book and iCal data on your iPod. Pretty slick too.
Re:And this is useful, how? (Score:4, Insightful)
What a curious statement... I bet they had a lot of fun creating it and learned a ton in the process. Since when does hacking something have to be useful?
It didn't exist before, and they made it exist, even if all it will ever do is show the penguin logo. Kudos to them.
At the same time, you could fit a lot of iPods in a server rack...
Re:And this is useful, how? (Score:4, Funny)
Yes, the iPodServe is the most incredible, albeit expensive, server technology available. At just under $300,000 per 42U rack, you couldn't manage more if you had the staff to do so.
Re:And this is useful, how? (Score:2)
Re:And this is useful, how? (Score:5, Insightful)
Some ideas, most of which are based around the principle that this allows the Linux community to add features to the pod that apple haven't gotten round to yet:
Stuff Apple might very well do anyway:
Ogg support, and perhaps other freaky formats.
Playlist editing on the Pod
Stuff Apple are very unlikely to do:
Ipod's store the files on the disk but name them randomly so you cannot access them easily when it is operating as a firewire drive; a TuxPod (I'll want royalties on that name please) could store them as regular files so you no longer need special software to load a pod up and can use it to play your songs on a PC without needing to keep a copy on the PC.
It should be possible to put something together to allow you to use the scroll wheel to enter text (I'm thinking something like the system Stephen Hawking uses to enter text into his voice synth) making it capable of all sorts of PDA functions.
AvantGo client.
Ogg support (Score:1, Interesting)
As a uClinux developer, and an avid iPod hacker .. (Score:2, Interesting)
All thats needed now is a port of libogg, and away we go! Well done Bernhard!!!
Re:As a uClinux developer, and an avid iPod hacker (Score:2, Interesting)
I know that a lot of my friends are waiting for the same thing, why don't any of the major vendors realize that there's a market here? Maybe it's not big enough... I have tried mailing companies to get some information on whether any of them plan to support Linux or .ogg, but haven't got a lot of replies so far.
Impressive (Score:1, Interesting)
The iPod can be improved dramatically with custom configurations the likes of which couldn't be done before.
Along with correct Ogg support, comes full control over a very good piece of hardware inside. It's a pity about the lack of features on the buttons at the front, but I'm sure a good coder can knock up something useful from that. Perhaps even a firewire keyboard hack to help searching tunes?
This will give Apple a run for their money.
Re:Impressive (Score:5, Funny)
How so? You still need to actually buy the iPod from Apple...
Re:Impressive (Score:2, Insightful)
I dont see your logic there, u need an ipod to run it on, Apple still get the money.
Re:Impressive (Score:1)
Re:Impressive (Score:5, Insightful)
They can't even be pushing Mac-only compatibility as they sell a Windows version etc etc.
So will Apple be miffed if you buy an iPod and install a random os on it? I doubt it, just like they don't send the boys round when you buy a Mac an install Yellow Dog or something.
Troc
Re:Impressive (Score:3, Insightful)
Re:Impressive (Score:2, Insightful)
Re:Impressive (Score:1)
Re:Impressive (Score:2, Insightful)
Re:Impressive (Score:1)
Re:Impressive (Score:2)
Re:Impressive (Score:2)
Microsoft is a horizontal monopoly in the PC market. They control an entire tier of the business. If they make a change to Windows do people care? They have to no matter if they are Dell, HP, or IBM customers. The fate of the PC market is in the hands of Microsoft, not Dell, HP, or Apple. What Microsoft says with regards to the PC industry goes.
If you're still having trouble here is another example. FoMoCo makes parts for Ford vehicles, not Chrystler vehicles. If FoMoCo did something with their products only Ford customers would have to care, Chrystler customers would not. Ford is vertically integrated in that respect. Chrystler is the same way with Mopar. If you think Ford is too restrictive with their products you can buy a car from another company not affiliated with Ford.
However if OPEC decides oil will cost X amount per barrel you have to care because no matter who made your car you need gasoline to run it. Railing against Ford because OPEC made gas prices soar would be ridiculous. Being angry their cars aren't more fuel efficient or something might be valid but not the simple fact gasoline is expensive. If you don't like the fact Apple sells an iPod with an OS buy from someone else. If they welded the iPod shut to prevent anyone from ever seeing the magic blue pixie dust that made it work you might have a valid concern. As of right now you're getting upset over a complete non-issue. If you want to throw the word monopoly around learn to use it properly.
Re:Impressive (Score:2)
Yes, because they do not allow anyone else to make a machine that runs MacOS. This is a monopolistic practice in which a company uses it's monopoly in software to extend a hardware monopoly. The only reason no one cares about Apple is that it has no market share compared with PCs. Apple has used their monopoly power to put a number of companies out of business.
Re:Impressive (Score:2)
Re:Please...please....PLEASE (Score:1)
No, that makes it all the more funny! You see, Commodore were as much a monopoly as Apple are now. Who said hypocricy? Oh, right, he did.
Re:Impressive (Score:2)
Not really. When you buy an iPod from apple you get a hardware device and the installed software. You can't buy a device with no software for a discount.
Calling aftersale modifications competition is like saying that because I could put an aftermarket exhaust on my car that there's competition in the mini exhaust market. There isn't.
Impressive... (Score:2)
Re:Impressive... (Score:2)
Especially if it can support bitrate peeling. Mmm...
realtime playlists, deleting, dual boot (Score:5, Interesting)
the only thing i miss about the NJB is the ability to make realtime playlists, and to be able to delete songs away from the computer. i would love to see that come to my iPod via this port!!!
also a dual boot would be incredible, but doubt the 2 firmwares could co-exist unless the firmware would be a booter (ala lilo or grub), and the iPod/Linux firmware be made virtual and put onto the ide harddrive.
Re:realtime playlists, deleting, dual boot (Score:2)
Ok, describe to me a situation where I can't wait to get home to erase a song. I mean, if the pod isn't plugged in a computer, you can't very well add stuff to it, so you don't need the extra room.
Extra features are allways fun, but I don't see how this one would be usefull...
Hell, it would just make me nervous about letting my friends play with it.
Re:realtime playlists, deleting, dual boot (Score:2)
Recording (Score:2)
UI (Score:2, Interesting)
Re:UI (Score:4, Funny)
Surely you mean apple made the UI so sexy, that it would be hard not to play with it
sandpaper (Score:2)
Just another small improvement from the free software world.
The screenshots (Score:5, Informative)
1 [sourceforge.net]
and
2 [sourceforge.net]
Re:The screenshots (Score:2)
Way to revert? (Score:3, Interesting)
Szo
Re:Way to revert? (Score:3, Informative)
Re:Way to revert? (Score:2)
I'm not sure if everyone can access that, so here it is:
Re:Way to revert? (Score:5, Informative)
Yes, more info in the FAQ [sourceforge.net]. See section 4.1 for the bit on reloading Apple firmware.
I'm really very interested in tracking this - my iPod is behaving horribly with VBR-encoded files (firmware 1.2.1, mine cuts off the end of the track if you pause or fast forward/rewind) and short of re-ripping 40Gigs-worth I'm stuck without a solution. Quite keen to see what happens here.
Cheers,
Ian
Re:Way to revert? (Score:3, Informative)
This is, AFAIK, a known problem with MP3's without the Xing VBR header. There are utilities out there to 'repair' your existing mp3's to add the appropriate header. My experience with just such a tool was a success (but it was such a pain that I didn't bother doing it with the whole library yet).
Re:Way to revert? (Score:2)
Excellent - thanks a lot for this. Could you please let me know the name of the tool you used?
Cheers,
Ian
Re:Way to revert? (Score:1)
Re:Way to revert? (Score:2)
4.1 Can I still run the Apple firmware?
Assuming a backup is made of the original firmware it is possible to roll-back the firmware to the original so that it can be used. It is intended that eventually a small uClinux application will also allow direct loading of the original firmware
Windows iPod only (Score:1)
Look's really nice, but only the Windows iPod (with FAT32) is supported. Wonder if there will be support for the Mac iPod (with HFS+).
Re:Windows iPod only (Score:5, Informative)
Re:Windows iPod only (Score:2)
Does Linux have HFS+ support yet? I know HFS support has been there for a long time, but I don't remember seeing HFS+. I would think this would be the only problem.
It's been, what, five years since HFS+ came out?
Very good work (Score:4, Insightful)
Ogg support (or even just a shell prompt!) would be reason enough for me to buy the iPod today.
Hope this message gets through to Apple.
So, what's next: will some intelligent company build a DVD player that can be extended with IDE drives internally and run Linux so that we can load it with mplayer and freenet and build that "your grandmother can fileshare" set-top DVD/VR I'm dreaming about?
Re:Very good work (Score:1)
Re:Very good work (Score:2)
How about:
cat *.mp3 | mp3decoder -
Re:Very good work (Score:2)
iPod is already immensely popular. The amount of extra sales generated to people like you who are impressed by the "hackability", and who wouldn't otherwise have bought one, would number in the hundreds. This is not a reason not to stomp on the developers. Having said that, stomping on developers costs money and I can't see any reason that they might justify that expenditure.
Re:Very good work (Score:2, Interesting)
Re:Very good work (Score:2, Insightful)
On the other hand, they don't mind the song copying-software.
Re:Very good work (Score:2)
I though Apple's anti piracy and DRM measures on the iPod cover whatever hacks get installed (if you don't know the anti piracy measures are a sticker on the box the iPod comes in saying "Don't steal music".
What can they do? (Score:2)
From the uClinux webpage:
Unfortunately the iPod is considered a "closed-platform" by Apple and technical info is virtually non-existant so this has involved a fair bit of guess work, reverse-engineering and experimentation!
If they aren't an authorized Apple developer, and they've completely reverse-engineered everything (because of a lack of documentation), then what can Apple legally do?
Keep in mind that the last person that Apple brought the hammer down on (for iCommune) was an actual Apple developer with Apple documentation, so Apple had a little bit of leverage on him. Whether it would have truly been successful in court is another matter...
Frankly, I can't see Apple doing anything about this. It's not going to threaten their current iPod plans, and it's going to be a marginal group of users who will attempt to install this.
Re:Very good work (Score:2)
Because it has to cost about $199 max and this means making millions of the damn things. Flood the world with a Linux-driven set-top hard-drive TV recording any media-playing p2p sharing boxes. Anarchy. Evil.
Nice...but what about iTunes? (Score:5, Interesting)
1. Get it to continue working with iTunes. Imagine, once this matures and the music capabilities are running at full speed, how nice it will be to be able to sync and use both your ogg vorbis and mp3 files on the iPod using iTunes to organize everything.
2. Figure out the remote pin-outs, so hardware hackers, or at least those with soldering skill can make their own remotes. I'm thinking I would like to modify my snowboarding jacket since I can't afford that Burton/Apple iPod jacket. Granted, this request goes out to anyone who is interested as it really doesn't have anything to do with the iPod linux project. If I can find some time, I may look into it myself.
If anyone has any info on the above, please feel free to chime in. Oh, yeah, and I noticed this from the FAQ [sourceforge.net]. Perhaps this can waylay all of the "WHY?!?" trolls:
Cheers. :)
Firewire Filesharing (Score:4, Funny)
I can see it now. Two geeks in a bar looking at each others linux equipped ipods. One pulls out a firewire cable and says "I'll share you mine if you share me yours"
Re:Firewire Filesharing (Score:1)
Re:Firewire Filesharing (Score:2, Interesting)
Re:Firewire Filesharing (Score:2)
Yeah, I know they've turned off some peep to peer software that run on top of iTunes but only to avoid a lawsuit. If someone takes an ipod, install another OS altogether and does filesharing with that seems to be more or less out of Apple's hands.
Re:Firewire Filesharing (Score:2)
Silly question (Score:4, Funny)
Re:Silly question (Score:5, Funny)
or something
Troc
Re:Silly question (Score:2, Funny)
Only supports the Windows version. (Score:2, Flamebait)
Further research indicates that at the moment neither MP3 nor Ogg playback are working in real-time, partially due to the iPod lacking an FPU. There is no support at present for the Firewire port either.
So, what use can be made from a Linux system with 5 control buttons, a dial control and a locking switch as input and a low-res mono display and audio as output? Not a lot, really. It's not even much use as a games platform emulator.
Re:Only supports the Windows version. (Score:2)
You port Doom to it [wired.com], of course.
MP3 Decoder? (Score:3, Interesting)
Doesn't the iPod have a hardware decoder for mp3? If so why don't they think about making a device for this in the kernel...maybe so it would be possible just to cat >
Re:MP3 Decoder? (Score:3, Informative)
Re:MP3 Decoder? (Score:2)
Anticipated One of the Age Old Slashdot Questions (Score:4, Funny)
"3.4 Can you imagine a Beowolf cluster...
There was an April fools about a bunch of Buddhists ordering a heap of iPods. Too bad... if it were true perhaps they could have clustered them to solve the ancient mysteries...
Translation, yes, but its just silly. "
Why? Well... (Score:3, Insightful)
It's difficult to tell exactly what the out-of-the-box features are, as precise details are closed... but:
There's a PP5002B-C in there, and the PP5002 product brief(pdf) [portalplayer.com] states support for mp3 encoding, and decoding of mp3, wma, wma, aac and accelp.net formats. Of course, Apple use custom firmware which may not have all of these facilities.
There's also been talk of using the iPod for direct sharing over firewire. There's possibility of using IP-over-Firewire and running a webserver on the thing. There's a lot of fun possibilities out there, especially if a few more hackers get on board, although no alternative firmware will gain popularity until it has a simple UI, one of the things apple tend to be rather good at.
There's obviously a fair way to go with this uClinux project, and I'd expect much of it's initial progress has been made thanks to the ARM7TDMI port [aplio.com] of UClinux - I'm not belittling the hard work of Bernard Leach here. The current mp3 and ogg playback is probably not as optimised as it could be with full knowledge of the portalplayer chip and the rest of the iPod's hardware. It would be great if information on the hardware would be opened up, but I don't see this happening for a while, in the mean time, get this man an official FDK!! (or maybe not, because of them damn legal issues).
All things said, looks like a great start, just wish I had an iPod....
No fork() support? (Score:2)
Re:No fork() support? (Score:4, Informative)
man vfork
Re:No fork() support? (Score:2)
Bleh. (Score:4, Insightful)
I mean, come on. We all laugh when we see a porsche with a big coffee can exhaust pipe slapped onto it. This is the same idea -- taking the expensive, high quality "performance player" in the market, and rendering it an alpha-quality linux box. All for the sake of playing OGG files, which you can't even generate with iTunes.
For $500, you can get a fucking sweet linux box. Or you can get an iPod. Don't wreck the latter trying to get the former.
Re:It's called hack value (Score:2)
Think of the possibilities! (Score:2)
You could play Ogg! (It already does at 80% realtime)
You could also do some very slick stuff with the TCP/IP stack. i.e. configure it from a web browser or something. (Unfortunately you'd need a long Firewire cable)
I recommend they emulate the existing interface, it's quick slick. But it would be fun to experiment with other things such as circular menus that you select by scrolling around circularly.
All in all, it's damn cool with a lot of possibilities.
This is sweet (Score:2)
A question for iPod users/developers (Score:2, Interesting)
This means that the only way to dump data from my camera (which has both USB and FireWire) is to connect it to a laptop -- cumbersome and overkill, I think. Now that Linux has been ported to the iPod, would it be possible to use it in this way?
Re:A question for iPod users/developers (Score:2)
I was going to say that the Archos [archos.com] with Rockbox [rockbox.haxx.se] would do that, but then I remembered that its USB2 is a slave-mode device. But my gf uses it as a music player and a handy 20GB sneakernet device.
From the FAQ [rockbox.haxx.se]:
So it's Firewire only for your camera, it seems...
Same question... (Score:2)
Looking at the FAQ, it looks like firewire support for the iPod is not there yet, but they plan to eventually support it... so it's still a while before an image copying app will be around, I think.
Dupe (Score:4, Funny)
Re:Dupe (Score:2, Funny)
Re:Gameboy Emulation (Score:1)
But actually, I think it's possible to make it work. The "wheel" has no moving parts, so I suppose you could have it work as 4/8/16 "buttons" by dividing it into zones, giving you a joystick.
Re:Gameboy Emulation (Score:2, Informative)
Re:Enjoy while it lasts (Score:5, Insightful)
Re:Enjoy while it lasts (Score:2)
I highly doubt Apple will do anything (Score:4, Informative)
Re:Stuff this (Score:2, Insightful)
If you want linux on your Archos JB20, why not try porting it youself?
Or just buy an iPod
Troc
Re:uClinux... (Score:2, Redundant)
Or, how about an even more specific future -> Darwin (which is a type of BSD)