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America Online Businesses Apple

AOL and .mac IM Not Entirely Integrated 61

Posted by pudge from the one-more-reason-not-to-pay-for-.mac dept.
gsfprez writes "While chatting with some Apple employee friends (with .mac accounts and iChat), we were stumped why we couldn't see each other on AIM. It seems that AOL has decided to take the opportunity -- while integrating the .mac users 'into the fold' -- to modify their AIM protocols so that Open Source clients (like Fire and Trillian) can't see those with '@mac.com' IM accounts, and vise versa. Bottom line: you can't be seen by .mac IM users, and they can't see you, unless you get the crufty, single service AOL IM client. The only positive affirmation of this is from the Fire mailing list. 'Into the fold ... sorta' is more like it." Well, it's still early, this may merely be about bugs that need fixing, rather than intent to block .mac users. We'll see.
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AOL and .mac IM Not Entirely Integrated More

AOL and .mac IM Not Entirely Integrated

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  • Trillian isn't open source. although it is possibly the best IM client out there.
    • I know it's not really a fair comparison, but iChat is by far the best IM client. Nothing can touch it for sheer elegance and ease of use.
    • Actually, I have been using Adium for Mac OS X and have to say that it is the best IM client out there. Clean OS X interface, and written entirely in Cocoa, which means you get the great features that come along with that.

      For anyone running OS X, I would suggest giving it a try.

  • Older AIM didn't work either. (Score:3, Informative)

    by catwh0re ( 540371 ) on Thursday August 15, 2002 @11:47PM (#4080960)
    When I discovered that my friends were on iChat, I immediately downloaded AIM and registered, to my surprise the AIM download link that i was given pointed to a version that was not only out dated, but completely incompatible with .mac users. Selecting "upgrade" from the "My Aim" menu (and some time waiting for the download) i was presented with the ability to chat with my .mac friends.

  • Fire v. iChat (Score:2, Interesting)

    by cappadocius ( 555740 )
    This would seem to create a rather strange schism between OS X'x current reigning IM client, Fire.app, and Apple's new iChat offering.

    Undoubtedly, anyone who depends on running on two or more messenger systems will stick with Fire. Those who use only AIM will probably switch to Apple's offering. But if this is true, then within any circle of friends it has to be one or the other -- Fire (or your fave) or iChat.

    It would be a shame to see Fire die, but with the trend for Macheads to adopt Apple programs, that might very well be what happens.

    [Sigh] Back to running two messenging apps again. :(

    • Re:Fire v. iChat (Score:5, Informative)

      by Erdinger ( 601447 ) on Friday August 16, 2002 @12:09AM (#4081032)
      It isn't a matter of using iChat or not, it has to do with the .Mac address. You can use your AIM screen name in iChat and then there would be no problem.

      And yes, I am certain iChat allows you to use your AIM screen name.

      • Re:Fire v. iChat (Score:3, Insightful)

        by foobar104 ( 206452 )
        And yes, I am certain iChat allows you to use your AIM screen name.

        Not that it's necessary, but I'll second that. I've been using my old-as-the-hills AIM screen name with iChat for some time now to chat both with other iChat users (even over Rendezvous over AirPort, which is really cool) or AIM users on both platforms. Since I had an AIM screen name all along, it seemed unnecessary to use my .Mac user name.

  • Why don't you just get a REAL instant messager... (Score:1, Funny)

    by Anonymous Coward
    ...which will let you talk to whoever you want?

    MSN Messenger is the best IM client anywhere, ever. Quit screwing around with that .mac crap! (BTW, isn't that no longer free?) And stay away from open source--it has too many security holes.
    • Is ICQ....I know it is AOl, but it kept it's own identity. The only IM I allow on my home network is ICQ. AOL, MS Messenger and anything else is blocked. I'm sorry, but ICQ has all anyone would ever need, and the ICQ number is way superior to any buddy-based list. Heck, didn't they get Databases 101: you do not use a name as Primary Key! Damnit. ICQ is the way to go, yes, it is AOL, yes it has ads on the Windows version and, yes, most people use AIM. And I love it on my iBook...no ads, just everything I need. Why ask for more?

  • Why you can't see .macs (Score:4, Informative)

    by sammy.lost-angel.com ( 316593 ) on Friday August 16, 2002 @01:03AM (#4081172) Homepage
    I believe (and I could be wrong) that the reason you don't see .mac people on these clients is because of the protocol they use (the old TOC one). Gaim uses oscar, and I believe you can see people just fine. It probably just hasn't trickled down through TOC, although AOL might choose just to ignore it.

    Anyone have any concrete information on this?

    • Re:Why you can't see .macs (Score:5, Informative)

      by hoggy ( 10971 ) on Friday August 16, 2002 @06:43AM (#4081739) Homepage Journal
      I know that Apple specifically say in the help for iChat that AIM users may need to download a newer client in order to see and communicate with .Mac users.

      Certainly the old client I had (4.3) wouldn't even let you type in a .Mac screen name (didn't like the '@' or '.' characters), also iChat couldn't see me online with the old AIM client and couldn't send messages to me.

      Wouldn't surprise me if it's just a bug/version problem.
    • Trillian, gaim, and others use oscar, I'm certain of that. AOL hasn't touched TOC since 1996, they did their bit as required by the FCC and have since moved on. If you've looked at the specification [berkeley.edu] it's blindingly obvious that trillian, gaim, and the ohters couldn't do half the things it does if it used TOC. Tik is one of a very small number of AIM clients that uses the TOC protocol.

      Because oscar is a closed protocol, gaim, trillian, and any other unofficial AIM clients that use it have only information from reverse engineering to work with. The diffrences between TOC and oscar are covered well enough in gaim protocol page [sourceforge.net].

      One of two things probaly happened:
      1) AOL extended the oscar protocol to handle the new charachters
      2) The other clients can't handle the @ and . in screen names
  • Noipe, folks, this is AOL trying to get rid of the clients which they're jealous of, because, yes, third party clients [minus Apple's iChat] are MUCH nicer than AOL's poor excuse for an instant messenging application. I use Proteus, for both ICQ and AIM, so that I don't need to keep multiple apps open. Too bad AOL seems gung-ho about preventing these fine application from being put properly to use.
    • Too bad AOL seems gung-ho about preventing these fine application from being put properly to use.

      You mean from stealing AOL's resources, right? If AOL wants to only let their clients, or licensed clients connect, then they should be able to do so. It's their resources after all. If Trillian wants to be compatible, they should step up to the plate and talk to AOL, just like Apple did. If AOL declines, well, this is a free country and you can do business with whoever you want.

      -Brent
      • Who the fuck is stealing? The makers of the clients? No...the USERS of those clients. And if I go and sign up for an AOL Instant Messenger account (which I HAVE to do to logon), then what does it matter what client I use? I don't remember there being any thing that said I HAD to use their client. This is as much horseshit as that "If you watch TV, you have to watch our commercials" garbage.

        Furthermore, what was AOL's goal here? My personal info or being gracious and giving me that POS sotware? My info...they got it, either way.

  • Proteus (Score:2, Interesting)

    by bootc ( 443754 )
    The other day I signed on to my AIM account using Proteus and a new contact was magically added to my buddies list: "PleaseUpgrade000". That sort of told me that I had to give up on Proteus.

    Just to add more to the discussion, I remember that even AIM had to be upgraded to work with or see Mac.com buddies, so it's just that the others haven't caught up yet.

  • Distributed IM service (Score:3, Insightful)

    by bmetzler ( 12546 ) <.moc.evil. .ta. .relztemb.> on Friday August 16, 2002 @08:20AM (#4082026) Homepage Journal
    This may finally allow AOL to license their servers to over companies and have their own @company.com clients that interoperate. Perhaps Microsoft needs to talk to AOL about licensing again. And Yahoo. and whoever else wants to offer a specialised IM client. I want my bmetzler@yahoo.com AIM ID. That'd be cool.

    -Brent
    • IIRC, Jabber IM allows you to have your own IM server, free and open-source. Your ID is something like "user@server.com", making the system effectively distributed. Also, it can interoperate with AIM (well, on the old TOC protocol).

      http://www.jabber.org/ [jabber.org]

      - Benad

  • All this talk about Fire. What about the real best IM client for OS X out there? Adium! (http://adiumx.com/) it rocks. Try it out. I'm using Jaguar right now, and I don't use iChat, I use Adium. It's way better.

    Anyways.. enough of the rant on Adium vs... I wish that AOL would just open its doors. It's not like it's going to loose business here. All the AOL users still use AOL for their messaging, and I imagine that's where they get a whole lot of their money from. The banner ads on AIM can't provide that much for them. Am I wrong?
    • But Adium only does AIM, right? I want all four services running at once and Fire does a pretty nice job at that. If I want Yahoo Webcam or one of the special features the 'real' client provide, I log off that service in Fire and launch the authorized app. This happens very seldom - most of the time Fire is fine.
    • Unfortunately, if you download the source to Adium you'd know that it uses the open source "FireTalk" library which the article says will be an incompatible protocol. Therefore, Fire and Adium are in the same boat if they both use the same library.

  • Do you have to keep a .mac account to use iChat? Oh, just great. Just when I thought I'd get an instant messaging client, I find out it costs $100 a year to use. Forget that.

    I think I'll stick with ignoring my email instead of moving to ignoring my instant messages.
  • I've been having some rather interesting experiences with AIM and iChat. I've been using iChat for a couple of months now, and when I do a direct-IM connection with people using certain versions of AIM for Windows, I can send them images just fine, but if they try to send me anything, I just get a pink box. The box is the size of the image they're trying to send, but it never displays the image. Oddly, older versions of AIM don't do this, only the current one. Then I'm forced to use AIM, but the problem is that even if I quit iChat, and they try to direct connect while I'm on AIM, an iChat window opens up, since AIM apparently uses the iChat Agent. The only workaround for this is for me to direct connect to them in AIM. Sometimes when they try to direct connect to me in AIM, the dialogue asking me if I want to connect comes up but goes away immediately. Also, if someone sends me a message while I have AIM's preferences open, the preferences window goes away, and the application behaves really strangely.

    I know this is mostly unrelated, but it is still weird iChat/AIM interaction.
  • Originally, AIM users were all AOL accounts. Now, AIM users are either AOL accounts or .Mac accounts. The system had to be changed to cater for this. No conspiracies, no black helicopters, just the standard lag you'll get if you're using a reverse-engineered client instead of the official one.

    This isn't the death of Fire, or Trillian any more than all the other changes to Oscar were. The third-party clients will reverse-engineer the changed protocol within a week, Trillian users will download (yet another copy of) aim.dll, and we'll all be happy again. Meanwhile, the idea that AOL would force-upgrade all of its legitimate users just to annoy Trillian users for a week is pretty ludicrous.

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