Maya for Mac OS X 67
drc writes "I http://www.macnn.com/feature.php?id=344noticed on MacNN that 'Maya 4.5 for Mac OS X was announced this morning when Steve Jobs revealed that the Maya update would offer feature parity in OS X when compared to other platforms. Jobs also mentioned that Alias|Wavefront has seen the Mac OS X version of Maya grow to 25% of their total market. I'm suprised that the Mac OS X version has such a market share in such a short period of time."
Maya for Mac (Score:2)
I do think it will be a viable alternative some day, from what I understand, it is a bit slower still than it is on PCs.
Most Maya users I know are on SGIs or PCs (Linux or Windows).
-Tim
Re:Maya for Mac (Score:5, Insightful)
How many Mac users do you know?
Given that perhaps they form 4% of the US market but it is claimed they form 25% of Alias customers, that actually means there are more Mac Alias users percentage wise than there are PC Alias users.
Isn't that funny? If it's true, then it means Alias can grow it's market by helping Apple grow Apple's market. Which is very convenient, I think.
Re:Maya for Mac (Score:1)
http://www.aliaswavefront.com/en/WhatWeDo/maya/
you'll find quite a number of the material from the last year featuring big production companies touting their adoption of macOsX
,
Re:Maya for Mac (Score:2, Interesting)
Got Maya running on a dual G4 gig box. It renders lots faster than a 2 GHz Win2K box, for identical models..... Spawning batch render jobs to other G4s in the lab is a straignt shot.
Making educational videos and VR, so I need a cost effective setup..... Wouldn't try to do these projects on our budget with Win2K, Linux, or SGI boxes (time wasted hardware/software hacking far exceeds Linux/Intel cost savings)....,
OS X Maya is fast and cost effective, and fits into the integrated digital video/multimedia stream, from Final Cut Pro, through DVD Studio Pro. Gee, and it also goes out on the cluster's OS X QuickTime Streaming Server....
The point: It sure looks like Apple has a cost-effective environment in OS X that makes high-end, Unix-based visualization/video production a high-speed snap.
(Memories of the mid-80's and publishing the first scientific jounal produced entirely with DTP [Quark] on a hybrid AT/Mac system.... Remember hearing that DTP MADE the Mac.... The hardware is SO much more bitchin' now....)
Then there's digital multimedia production: Pretty interesting market, eh?
OS X: How I got my weekends back.
Re:Maya for Mac (Score:1)
Re:Maya for Mac (Score:2)
The other problem is OSX is sluggish with everything! its not A|W's fault its slow. Hopefully 10.2 will clear up the second problem with added speed.
mow i really wish A|W would port studio tools [aliaswavefront.com] to OSX as well, i much prefer it to Maya, which i only use for modeling anyways.
Re:Maya for Mac (Score:2)
I went to MacWorld Expo after work on Wednesday and Thursday. At the Apple display all the Macs were running 10.2. I played with a new 17" iMac... 10.2 is FAST. Felt just like OS 9 again... :)
Re:maya and mice (Score:5, Informative)
You're not serious, are you?
Mac 3-button mouse support explained:
1. Go to store.
2. Buy 3-button USB scrolling mouse.(Intellimouse explorer, etc.)
3. Plug mouse in.
Just because Apple ships a one-button mouse with Macintosh computers (ostensibly for newbie users, the core consistuent of their user base) doesn't mean mice with n buttons aren't supported. Dell ships machines with two-button mice. Does that mean that 3-button scrolling mice aren't supported on Dell machines?
I'm hoping you're not just trolling. Anyone who reads any story about Apple on slashdot inevitably runs across the whole multi-button mouse thing - and every single time, it gets explained that yes, OS X does support multi-button mice quite nicely right outta the box. I think it's been explained here about 100 times in the past month. Sheesh.
Re:maya and mice (Score:5, Insightful)
Paying $15.00 for another button on the mouse? What's wrong with it? Nothing. I think Apple should offer a 2-button Apple-branded mouse as an option at the Apple store. I think it's a bit dunderheaded to offer only a one-button mouse.
However, most tasks in the classic Mac OS can easily be accomplished with one mouse button; the compliment of contextual menus is a recent (1998) addition, and a welcome one - but the goal at Apple has always been to deign the simplest interface to the task at hand, and one button is the simplest interface to most action tasks.
This changes in software like Maya, where contextual menus can be and are heavily used. The second and third buttons allow quick and easy access to commands too numerous to be assigned easy key combinations of one-click buttons. Apple shows their extensive interface knowledge here too; they don't handicap the user by requiring a one-button mouse, but instead allow users with more experience and knowledge to easily add pointing/action devices that take advantages of additional software capabilities.
I think a lot of people fall into the trap of thinking that Apple is heavy-handed in all respects - in some ways they are, such as their refusal to move to more, uh, accessible and commoditized processors. The one-button mouse isn't an example of this though - for the past 18 years, they'e used a one-button mouse. Most Macintosh customers are repeat customers. Switching to a two-button mouse requires a complete re-intuiting of the interface to these new users (what's the second button for?).
It's easier for Apple and Macintosh users to allow the user's knowledge to supercede the interface and included hardware than to supercedee the user's knowlegde with additional hardware that isn't _needed_. That's why they still ship a one-button mouse.
In fact, Apple has evaluated adding buttons to the standard Apple mouse many times over the past several years. The conclusion has always been that doing so would add too much complexity for the basic user.
Allow the user to make the choice to take advantage of additional capabilities; don't foist extra mouse buttons onto people who don't need them, but make sure that people who do need those extra buttons are able to take advantage of them easily.
I personally like having one button on my PowerBook G4, as I have to keep my left hand on the keyboard anyway; amaking he modifier Control an easy target. On my desktop machine, I use a two-button scroll wheel mouse from Logitech.
Apologies for misreading your question; it's the sort of thing one sees so often on
It's either (1) retrain every Mac user on the hows and why od two mouse buttons, or (2) provide the flexibility to use more mouse buttons at a slight extra cost when the user's needs call for that extra button. The choice seems simple to me.
Re:maya and mice (Score:1)
Four years would be recent in some industries. Personal computers is not one of them.
the goal at Apple has always been to deign the simplest interface to the task at hand, and one button is the simplest interface to most action tasks.
With a one button mouse, you have to control-click to get the popup menu. With two buttons, you just click. Now which is more complicated? Not only is the right-click easier on the wrists and less error-prone, but it is a de facto standard across most Unix GUIs as well as Windows.
This changes in software like Maya, where contextual menus can be and are heavily used. The second and third buttons allow quick and easy access to commands too numerous to be assigned easy key combinations of one-click buttons. Apple shows their extensive interface knowledge here too; they don't handicap the user by requiring a one-button mouse, but instead allow users with more experience and knowledge to easily add pointing/action devices that take advantages of additional software capabilities.
Finally, someone answers my original question! I have to say, that's about the best solution I could come up with.
Most Macintosh customers are repeat customers. Switching to a two-button mouse requires a complete re-intuiting of the interface to these new users (what's the second button for?).
This is just an excuse for stagnation. What else has Apple done that required a reintuiting of the interface? MultiFinder, System 7, Copland, OS X...
In any case, we are in agreement on the ideal solution. I don't want to force people to have more mouse buttons than they can handle. But Apple should offer more than one mouse, at least both a single- and a double button. I am not the hugest fan of the scroll wheel, but it seems to be very popular, so maybe they should have one of those, too.
Re:maya and mice (Score:1)
it's not a matter of which is more complex, it's a matter of comfort, versatility and simplicity. I've ALWYAS preferred the modifier key approach, and I'll never understand why people draw such a large distiction between Apple's approach and the multi-button mouse approach - it's just not that big a deal.
Re:maya and mice (Score:3, Funny)
What exactly are you doing with your other hand that makes the control button so inconvenient? Is it related to your concern about wrist problems?
Re:maya and mice (Score:2)
Re:maya and mice (Score:1)
Re:maya and mice (Score:2)
Most of the important Finder commands are on the left side of the keyboard, your left hand is typically on the keyboard while you're using your mouse. Apps that have commands dealing with mouse operations keep their hot keys on the left side of the keyboard so they are easily accessible when holding the shift, option(alt) or Apple keys with your thumb. When context menus were introduced the modifier keys were made to be the CTRL and Option keys which made using context menus in programs like Photoshop fairly quick for old Mac users.
Because the keyboard shortcuts are well in line with modifier keys extra mouse buttons would be quite a shift in many users workflows. People who come from backgrounds using X or Windows like to pick up multi-button mice and are greeted with context menus. Old skool Mac users don't need extra mouse buttons in most cases. They're comfortable using the keyboard/mouse combination because context menus have been designed to well compliment keyboard shortcuts. I think some hardcore Photoshop and Illustrator users would much rather just have a programmable keypad than a full fledged keyboard. I've seen some guys with some crazy deterity on the keyboard. I make it a rule to never play video games against such people.
Re:maya and mice (Score:1)
I plugged in a logitech two button mouse on MacOS X and right off the bat I could use the 2nd mouse button to do what would previously had required a control-click (which was a replacement for the 2nd mouse button).
.
Re:maya and mice (Score:2)
Re:maya and mice (Score:2)
In the PC world, since they were able to choose which mouse came with their computer. I have thrown away a handful of 1-button Mac mice, but when I get a PC I just get the mouse I want in the first place.
To each their own. I've replaced every mouse that
has come with my PCs with a Logitech Trackman
Marble FX (the old PS2 version) I hate stock PC
mice. and use them almost exclusively as doorstops.
I don't understand why people won't accept multiple buttons as an optional feature. It's flexibility: you don't have to use it, but someone might want to.
Some people do, those people simply buy new mice.
Why aren't you people complaining when Apple introduces a 17" iMac? After all, who needs a 17" iMac? Just get a 15" iMac and stick a 17" monitor in front of it!
Because iMacs can't have their monitors switched
out, perhaps? But you knew that, you just threw
that in in the hopes someone would bite. You win.
Re:maya and mice (Score:2, Insightful)
And if I need more... I buy a three button mouse.
Your asking why Macs don't ship with more? The average consumer probably still doesn't need a second mouse button yet. If you're paying for Maya, a $30 USB mouse is small change.
Re:maya and mice (Score:1)
Re:maya and mice (Score:2)
Does the average user, which you said was Windows, need a second mouse button?
Then you can extrapolate: Do they use the second mouse button?
Most folks I know don't, including my Dad
Re:maya and mice (Score:1)
What's a mouse? (Score:3, Informative)
On the occasions we use a mouse the one that comes with the tablet has two buttons & a scroll wheel.
As for "maybe it will reign again" I think it's still dominating that market. Granted the it's not been strong in 3D. But in just about every other creative niche it either dominates (photography, art, design, advertising, pre-press) or has a very respectable presence (film/video, music and increasingly 3D)
surprise? (Score:3, Insightful)
A killer app comes out for a killer OS running on just about the sweetest hardware most people are willing to pay for.
What this really points out is how we've come to expect that mediocity sells and state-of-the-art often goes unnoticed. e.g., pop quiz: Palm or Danger?
Well, duh... (Score:1, Informative)
Jobs also mentioned that Alias|Wavefront has seen the Mac OS X version of Maya grow to 25% of their total market. I'm suprised that the Mac OS X version has such a market share in such a short period of time."
Well, duh... either he's lying, or everybody who's not being forced to upgrade by a new OS isn't upgrading. Windows guys can keep using their old versions, Mac guys really can't. And don't say Classic. It's not funny anymore.
I know, I know, I love Stevo too. But really, he's the top dog at an aggressive multinational. He's probably lying. We've all caught him "misrepresenting" the truth hundreds of times, and this is probably one of them - it's his job to hype OS X in any way he can. Look at the way he and his lawyers treat people, he's not a nice guy when he's not selling something. Nicer than Billg and monkeyboy, but they've probably never fired somebody for using cheap cologne and "stinking" up the office....
But we'll forgive him for this lie, just like we forgave him for screwing us with .Mac yesterday, and just like we'll forgive him for putting backdoors in Aqua tomorrow. We've gotta stop being Fanboys; blind faith and adoration is more harmful than sheer hatred. We've got to use our clout as customers to force positive change in Apple. If Steve doesn't hear any complaints about how he does business, he'll assume he's doing everything right. And he's not. Or am I the only one who can admit Apple's not perfect?
MokMok
Re:Well, duh... (Score:2, Interesting)
Everyone who knows something Apple is falling down on, please contact them and let your voice be heard. You're the only one who can stop them from becoming another Microsoft, and you're the only one who can explain your point of view.
Let's flood Apple with "things to do" lists so they can gauge what their customers REALLY want.
Let's make Apple better.
Zoober
Re:Well, duh... (Score:1)
Normally... (Score:1)
Re:Normally... (Score:1, Interesting)
I am a refugee from Microsoft Monopoly Land. Linux really is great, but has no real corporate support. There are huge gaping holes in app functionality that I can't function without. Even the Mac is a stretch, but one I'm willing to take to get free of M$. But when Apple acts like this (and they often do), I realize how damn stupid they really are, and how clueless they are to what we're looking for in a company to support with our faithfulness, mindshare, and cash. And that's what keeps Apple afloat; Apple users will personally suffer in order to support them. We'll spend more on hardware and software, accept games 2 years after they're dead of old age on the PC, do without industry standard apps, and much much more. We accept this CRAP because there are so many things "right" about Apple. They have the greatest potential to change the computing world of any company out there. We have HOPE and we TRUST them to at least try to respect us and try to do the right thing. I have no such hope or trust for Microsoft.
But recently, Apple's meager success has gone to their heads. They have the fatally flawed idea that because OS X is cool, and us geeks are open to switching, they can screw us like morons.
They're wrong.
Now, more than ever, they have to be good corporate citizens. Now, more than ever, they have to respect their customers and not treat us like cattle they own. The Gnu guys are watching them. Slashdot is watching them. And, believe it or not, we geeks quit Windows more because we dislike the company's BS than because Windows sucks (which it does, but not as badly as people say). In fact, if MS weren't a bunch of greedy corporate soulless lying complete A-holes, I'd be happy running XP right now, and I'd be pricing out IBM ThinkPads instead of PowerBook G4's. It wouldn't bother me a bit. And once Linux gets a GUI that doesn't SUCK, and some CONFIG TOOLS THAT AREN'T FROM HELL, and some APPS BESIDES BROWSERS AND WORDPROCESSORS, I'll be there with bells on. Because, in the end, the Gnu guys are the real good guys. I'm a customer, and I want to know there's no backdoors. I want to have access to the complete source code for everything that's on my system, even if I never use it. I want to be able to share it with my friends without having some billionaire and his monopolistic corporation threaten to have me killed for it.
And it's THAT EASY to gain or lose market share. And I, for one, intend to let Apple know that my money and I are watching them. And if they screw up too many times or in too big a way, I'm boycotting their stuff the same way I boycotted Microsoft. They might not notice initially, but you're reading this post right now, and my friends will go from hearing raves to hearing bitter resentment, and my webblog will get a new anti-mac slant, and the company I do network administration for won't even consider the XServe. And I'm just one guy. Wait till Doc Searls gets pissed off at Apple. Wait until any of the new-generation of Mac-toting geeks gets pissed off at their corporate collective stupidity.
Apple should tread lightly on their customer's throats. As quickly as the tide washed in, it can wash out.
Mattman
(of the Upper Canada Mattmans)
Re:Well, duh... (Score:1, Insightful)
Hello, there is no Classic version of Maya! Every one of those 25% of Maya users must be someone who has never used Maya on their Mac before. Ergo, no one was forced to upgrade. Alias/Wavefront simply tapped into the existing large pool of creative types who wanted to be able to run Maya on the machine they used the most.
Re:Well, duh... (Score:2)
Peak, Deck 3, Spark ... all out now. Cubase SX out soon. Logic and DP on the way...
When I say Photoshop, until recently, I heard "classic". Classic runs like a dog. OS X runs like a dog, classic on top of OS X runs like an old dog.
I run Photoshop 6, and Quark 4 in Classic, and on my meager G4 466 (I gig RAM) they run just fine. Photoshop actually seems to run faster (It does start up faster) so this is just FUD on your part.
Also it's not Apple's fault if some companies are taking too long to get their app running in OS X.
I have been running OS X at home for a year now as my default app, and except for running Cubase, never boot into 9. Even the old version of Peak runs in Classic ... but the new version is much faster in X.
More paying customers (Score:3, Insightful)
Re:More paying customers (Score:3)
I'm certain there is some truth to this. But I also suspect it has something to do with the nature of the markets Apple is successful with. Home users who are afraid of computers. Educational users and Graphics professionals.
Home Users: The particular home users that Apple attracts probably don't have the tech savy to pirate software or even find pirated software. Also, since they have the disposable income for a Mac in the first place they can afford the stuff they want.
Educational Users: The school itself isn't going to be getting warez. I'm sure there would be a lot of pirating of software on the part of students, except their home machines are all PC's so there isn't.
Graphics Professionals: There is definetely a fair amount of pirating here. But when you are billing your hours using the software, paying for it isn't a big deal and is more than fair. If you started out with a "borrowed" copy you pay for it after a couple of paying jobs - unless it's only a "borrowed" copy of Pagemaker that only gets used when the occasional idiot sends you a pagemaker file
Fonts on the other hand just seem to collect on your drive since everyone sends them along with every project as it goes from designer to publication to pre-press service bureau, etc. You still buy a lot of fonts though because designers are willing to spend (their clients) money to get the font that looks right for the piece but you don't have yet.
Re:More paying customers (Score:2)
Ha! So true. But it's usually a PC using idiot. I never get Mac PageMaker jobs anymore.
Re:More paying customers (Score:1)
Now if only... (Score:1)
Re:Now if only... (Score:1)
Re:Now if only... (Score:1)
And I quote:
Expansion
Memory
128MB or 256MB DIMMs (64-bit-wide, 128-Mbit technology)
512MB DIMMs (64-bit-wide, 256-Mbit technology)
Maya still has greater appeal on non-macs (Score:3, Interesting)
Re:Maya still has greater appeal on non-macs (Score:2)
It takes the demand from users of software like Maya to demonstrate a need for such a product, before anybody will invest $$$ in such a card.
And it takes serious hardware before lots of software developers will jump on the Mac 3D bandwagon.
Nobody is denying the G4's potential as a platform for rendering - it's just that we have a classic chicken-and-egg problem here.
Re:Maya still has greater appeal on non-macs (Score:2, Insightful)
As for Linux taking over - that is for rendering. 'Rendering' is a giant, noisy wall somewhere in the back where the artists fear to tread. The creative tools necessary for high-end 3D are not, no how, available for Linux. What modeler are you using? GIMP for textures, really? I don't know any graphic artist who would consider it for a nanosecond.
RenderMan, yes.
Re:Maya still has greater appeal on non-macs (Score:1)
And companies like ILM and Sony have been moving to Linux for the creation end AND the rendering end.
If you don't know what you are talking about, don't post.
Re:Maya still has greater appeal on non-macs (Score:2)
Second, wake up and realize that ILM, Digital Domain, dreamworks, sony pictures imageworks, and a whole host of others are turning from SGI to Linux, not just for rendering, but for workstations. Maya, Softimage, Houdini, Shake, PRman (Renderman is the standard, not the renderer), Entropy, Mental Ray and (Soon) Nuke are available on Linux. Maybe you don't know a 'graphic artist' who would consider linux, because these are professional 3D artists and professional 3D programmers, not someone gouging the local soccer team for the logo they made in illustrator.
I think that Mac's can definitly succeed in 3D, but there are alot of things that will have to happen. Apply is playing hardball in the compositing market, and Maya is right there in the Mix, so its getting close. Now all Apple has to do is ACTUALLY MAKE FASTER COMPUTERS than PC's. Not just at running a multi-threaded photoshop filter, they will have to make some dual or quad processor workstations that are beyond G4s and take advantage of the latest RAM to outperform PC's by a good margin before they will see easy adoption.
Re:Maya still has greater appeal on non-macs (Score:1)
What's with this idea that this or that has to take over or it's considered a failure. How about just provide a functional alternative? A comfortable environment for using the tool you want to use?
Me, I'm still going to have to wait for this on my Mac because SESI doesn't look like it's porting Houdini anytime soon. I've no interest in Maya so I'll have to keep my AMD boxes around for a while.
Re:MOSR (Score:2)
While this is a bit of a troll, it sure sums up my fealings for that guy.
Years ago, I tried to set him straight- explainign physics, how microprocessors are made, and urging him to use some common sense and past history (also known as judgement) before posting his rantings.
Finally, it was the constant "sources are certain that Apple will, introduce iMacs with 22 inch screens at an upcoming trade show- thought to be Sybold, and while this looks totally for sure, you never know and merely the mention of it here might make Steve Jobs pull one of his famous last minute switches and change the machine to a 21 inch display. Our source has seen the product, but Apple can turn its entire component supply chain on a dime so if it doesn't happen, its becuase steve heard we knew-- not becuase I'm pulling this rumor out of my ass!"
Not that the other rumor sites are much better. Think Secret at least nailed it so far-- but their'; idiots who think Apple's engaging in "censorship" by not giving people like ryan meaders a free ride and other goodies.
The state of mac fanboy sites has never been worse.