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Apple Reveals Mac OS X 10.2, 17" iMac, Windows iPod 1073

Steve Jobs today announced at the Macworld Keynote that Mac OS X 10.2 will be available August 24 for $129. "That's less than $1 for each major feature," he quipped. Updates will be available in some cases for $19.99. Also introduced were iTunes 3, iPod updates, iChat, iCal, iSync, a 17" iMac, and a lot more.
Many of the new features have been mentioned here before, including QuickTime 6, spring-loaded folders, integrated Finder searching, better Windows integration, new Address Book, new Mail, Rendezvous, iChat, and Sherlock 3.

The Address Book is now system-wide, accessible from many applications, and even has Bluetooth integration. Jobs dialed his cell phone via Address Book, and then when someone called him back on that phone, the computer popped up with the caller's name in Address Book. He had the option to pick up the phone or reply with a short text message.

iSync is a new system for synching your contacts and calendars with GPRS cell phones, Palms, and iPods; so Palms and cell phones are now a part of the digital hub. The iSync program shows you connected devices, and allows configuration of what to sync, and when. The demo showed a complete sync of an address book on the computer to the cell phone, again over Bluetooth. iSync will also allow integration with .mac to update your contacts and calendars between multiple computers, and will be available as a free download in September.

The Mail app now has much better searching and spam filtering, and inline QuickTime (no, that won't be abused ...).

Rendezvous will allow such things as automatic accessing of other's playlists in iTunes, accessing USB printers on the network, and more, with "zero configuration" (I hope there is some configuration, so I can opt in or out of such things). Epson, HP, and Lexmark will have Rendezvous-compatible printers. Jobs didn't mention any way to share USB printers between Mac OS and Mac OS X.

iChat, the new instant messaging program, and iCal, the new shared calendar program, can work with the $100-per-year .mac subscription, or with the free AOL IM account and any web server. iChat will use Rendezvous for finding local users, and shared calendars can be sent via iChat or mail. iCal will ship in September, as a free download.

Sherlock 3 has been completely rewritten, using Internet services (SOAP? XML-RPC?) instead of trying to parse HTML. The demo showed movie listings with embedded trailers, eBay searches with intelligently organized information and pictures, Google image searching, and a Yellow Pages search that knows your ZIP code and sorts by distance, and shows directions and maps.

iTunes 3 is out today, with new features such as rating songs, keeping track of how often songs are played, playing back all songs at the same volume, integration with, and "Smart Playlists" with rulesets so they are automatically populated (e.g., "25 most played songs", or "500 MB of songs where playcount is 0", to play songs you've never listened to). It is only available for Mac OS X, and requires registration with an email address.

For the iPod, Apple lowered prices on the 5GB and 10GB models ($299, $399), and introduced a 20GB model ($499). The 10GB and 20GB have a solid state scroll wheel, a door to protect the FireWire port, a remote control, and a case. The playlist counts, Smart Playlists, and integration sync between the iPod and iTunes. Sound volume check has also been added to the iPod. The new 10GB model is 7.692 percent thinner than the previous version.

Also added to the iPod, in addition to the contacts, is calendars, synched with iCal, so it can really act as a PDA for most people. Jobs also announced Windows versions of iPod, synching with musicmatch and including a FireWire 6-to-4 pin cable.

The new iMac has a 17" widescreen display at 1440x900, with an NVIDIA GeForce4 MX, G4/800, and 80GB hard drive.

Jobs also noted that there are 2.5 million Mac OS X users, that 77 percent of owners of new Macs keep Mac OS X as the primary OS, and that they estimate there will be 5 million Mac OS X users by the end of the year, representing 20% of all Mac users using the new OS in the first 24 months.

Apple showed some new ads in the "Switch" campaign, including a student who lost her paper on Windows, a student whose CDs get messed up in his bag (although they didn't point out that he can use iPod under Windows now), and a comedian who ended his commercial with, "My name is Will Ferrell ... and I'm a porn actor."

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Apple Reveals Mac OS X 10.2, 17" iMac, Windows iPod

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  • So, I have an iBook. I got the iBook with OS 9 and OS X preloaded because Apple knew OS X was not quite good enough yet for sole use of that OS. I basically tested the software for Apple, and it does have some bugs, and it quite a bit slower than OS 9.

    Now I have to pay to get an updated version?

    • The upgrade to OS X will cost $19.99 - only if you want the CD for it (I'm assuming it's a CD(s) with minimum documentation).

      If you walk into an Apple store you'll get it for free, or if you really want to download it (through Software Update or otherwise) that will probably work as well.

      • Or I could be wrong - this is what they did last time for OS 10.1, and I'm not seeing anything like this for 10.2.

        My apologies for shooting off my mouth and "assuming facts not in evidence".
        • Re:so I have to pay? (Score:3, Informative)

          by lunenburg ( 37393 )
          I think you might be - what I took from the keynote was that the $20 upgrade pricing is ONLY for people who buy new Mac hardware between today and 8/24. Anyone else will have to pay the $129.
      • Re:so I have to pay? (Score:2, Informative)

        by dair ( 210 )
        The $20 charge was only for people who've bought new hardware recently (possibly from today until the release). Everyone else will be paying full price, at least going by what was said today.

      • It's $20.00 only if you purchase your iBook on or after July 17, 2002 (today). So people like me, who bought one two months ago, are screwed.
    • by Halo1 ( 136547 )
      Mac OS X had some bugs? No kidding. I'll tell you a secret, but make sure you don't tell it to anyone else: Mac OS X 10.2 will also have bugs! And 10.3, 10.4, 10.5 and whatever comes next also!! That's the case with every OS or application you'll ever buy. And it's not like the bugs in OS X were that numerous and intrusive they made the OS unusable (at least not for most people). If they were for you, then why on earth did you use it? Because Jobs said it was time to switch?

      The main reason they still included Mac OS 9 was simply that a lot of people buying macs also had a Mac in the past and those people want to be able to still run older programs, which haven't (yet) been ported to Mac OS X, on their new computer. Backward compatibility, you know.

      Finally, yes, the current/previous versions of Mac OS X are/were quite a bit slower than Mac OS 9 (although not in all regards, e.g. disk performance is already a lot better than in 9; it's mainly the GUI responsiveness imho), but otoh Mac OS X keeps getting faster and faster (and I hope 10.2 will solve this, for me, final issue). I for one am glad they first worked on stability and only then on optimizations. The way they're doing it now, you can really use the computer under OS X (I've barely booted in Mac OS 9 anymore since even Mac OS X Public Beta); if they'd done it the other way round, you'd be bitching even more I think.


    • You are sounding like one of those wacky open source advocates now. You should feel privleged that you can get such fine quality software for such a low price. Stop complaining!
  • Yeah I thought so (Score:2, Interesting)

    by Uttles ( 324447 )
    Somehow I knew apple wasn't going to come out and just have the 17" Imac as it's headliner. That article from a few days ago "Microsoft one ups apple" was way off...
  • by crumbz ( 41803 )
    Where is the info on the 17" iMac in this article?
  • Help! My PC has turned into a MAC! Oh wait, it's just the slashdot graphics that somehow changed for this article... does this mean my iPod will work with this machien now?

  • by Jonathan Blocksom ( 139314 ) on Wednesday July 17, 2002 @11:22AM (#3901785) Homepage
    The wide-screen iMac specs page [] gives the native
    resolution of the 17" iMac as 1440x900. This is a 16:10 display ratio, which is about as
    close as any monitor I know of gets to the
    Golden Ratio [], (1 + sqrt(5)/2), or approximately 1.618.

    Clearly Apple is trying to channel Pyramid Power []
    to sell more computers.
  • i was having some problems putting together a new cutting edge x86 system, and said fuck it. now i'm just pricing some G4s. apple, you have succeeded finally in convincing me to buy me first apple since my IIGS. (oh... you know i had the COLOR screen on that folks)
  • wow.

    All of a sudden this [] picture I did months ago seems all the more relevant...

    a grrl & her server []
  • So what? (Score:3, Funny)

    by NiftyNews ( 537829 ) on Wednesday July 17, 2002 @11:24AM (#3901800) Homepage
    "That's less than $1 for each major feature," he quipped."

    Bah, I can get Windows XP for only $99 and get thousands of bugs^H^H^H^Hfeatures for my money!
  • Cheaper to Upgrade (Score:2, Informative)

    by Anonymous Coward
    The upgrade for existing users is listed as $19.95. $129 is the full cost.
    • by TexTex ( 323298 )
      Actually, the upgrade price of $19.95 is for people who have purchased a Mac after today that came with OS X 10.1. The Apple stores will probably be selling the most current versions right away but other distributers have that surplus of boxes sitting in the warehouse.

      Current 10.1 users on old machines are stuck with the $129 price.

      Seems rather odd they're actually making you pay for upgrading something new you've just bought. Usually Apple floats a 3 month grace period. Figure if you're buying a new machine, the OS should be new as well. Guess not.
  • how are they doing the syncing of calender and contacts with phones ?


    john jones
  • by enneff ( 135842 ) on Wednesday July 17, 2002 @11:26AM (#3901826) Homepage
    Doesn't a demonstration of such kickass tech (especially the Bluetooth stuff) realised today for the consumer show just how many streets ahead Apple are?

    This is all stuff that should exist under Windows, but doesn't. Apple has, after so many years, arrived at the point of equality (and now usurption) to everything else in the market - they can only produce better and better products.

    • by donutello ( 88309 ) on Wednesday July 17, 2002 @01:26PM (#3902933) Homepage
      Doesn't a demonstration of such kickass tech (especially the Bluetooth stuff) realised today for the consumer show just how many streets ahead Apple are?

      What the hell are you talking about? My PC is quite happy to talk to my IPaq over Bluetooth today.

      This is all stuff that should exist under Windows, but doesn't. Apple has, after so many years, arrived at the point of equality (and now usurption) to everything else in the market - they can only produce better and better products.

      Yeah, but if any of this stuff was built into Windows wouldn't the same people on this thread be whining about how Microsoft is abusing its monopoly power to shove software no one wants down peoples throats and to drive competitors out of business ? Need I remind you that Microsoft is currently being sued for including a web browser and media player in the OS - nevermind any of the more advanced features.
    • by SuuSt ( 151462 ) on Wednesday July 17, 2002 @01:37PM (#3903032) Homepage Journal
      No! No damn it no! I'm trying to think of the best way to formulate this response, but I can't so I'll just have to stick with this cheesy opening. Companies have been showing off useless junk like this since 1998. Why on god's earth would I want my computer to tell me whose calling me on my cell phone. I've got caller ID for that. But you say, "Sullust, that might not be usefull, but surely they can think of some really cool use for it." That's the problem though, they can't.

      Bluetooth has been around for about 3 years now and nobody uses it. Why you may ask? Because it has no practical use. I recall a demo Bill Gates did many years ago just before Win2K was coming out where he selected a bunch of songs from Windows Media Player and it sent them to his car via 802.11 and then somebody got in the car, turned it on, and be damned if they weren't playing those songs. Wasn't that neat! Funny though, 2+ years latter and me using Windows XP, yet I still can't do that. Why? Because it's easier to just burn my mp3's onto a music cd, or (if i want lots of tunes) get a car mp3 player. You can buy these now, I know of no products that I can beam songs too and play (other than installing a PC in my car... no thanks).

      Scott McNealy (or however you spell his name) from Sun does this kind of stuff all the time too, a mythical refrigerator with a computer in it and a barcode scanner (which I can't buy) will scan all the stuff in my fridge and put what I need on the shopping list of my Palm. WOW! That is so freakin' cool! But a year and a half later, I can do no such thing. Again, why? Because it's butt-loads cheaper and easier to... wait for it... open the damn door and look! How many bar code readers is it going to take to read ALL the UPC's in my fridge, or worse yet, am I going to have to point all the UPCs at one or five readers... thanks anyway, I'll just open the door.

      The point of this now rantish response is to say that 0.1% of these gee whiz tech demos are going to turn into products. Just because Steve Jobs is on stage doesn't mean it isn't vapor ware. The point is to make you think "just how many streets ahead Apple are" and make you also think "This is all stuff that should exist under Windows, but doesn't." Guess what, it doesn't exist on a Mac either. Senior Jobs just got one of his engineers to make a BlueTooth cellphone that could talk with his address book thingy. I doubt Nokia is going to.

      Until Jobs, Gates, or Nealy can get on stage and say "This is the Nokia 3425, Ford Tunester, and Kenmore Neat-n-Shit and you can go to the store and buy them right now." These demo's are just Marketing/PR to make all the geeks love them.

      It works too...
      • by foobar104 ( 206452 ) on Wednesday July 17, 2002 @03:48PM (#3904048) Journal
        Hmm. It seems from your post that you might not know exactly what Bluetooth is. It's not about your computer showing you who's calling on your cell phone.

        I have a Bluetooth cell phone. It's an Ericsson something-or-other; don't recall the specific model number. It has a phone book in it, like all cell phones. If I want to store a number in it, I have to key it in, and then key in the name, and then save it. Mildly annoying.

        Instead of doing that, I just Bluetooth contacts from my PDA over to the phone. It's wireless, so there's nothing to carry around. And it works between the PDA (an iPaq) and the phone (an Ericsson) with no special setup or anything. If I have a contact in my PDA, I can put it in my cell phone in about three seconds.

        But there's more. I also have a Bluetooth headset. It sits in my ear and I can talk on my cell phone, without dangly wires. It's a pain in the ass to get in your car while you're on a cell phone, because you have to thread the wired headset through the seat belt just right, or risk getting all tangled up. Me, I just carry my phone in my pocket, no muss, no fuss.

        I also use Bluetooth to sync my PDA to my laptop. No more serial cables or cradles to mess with.

        My friend has a Bluetooth inkjet printer for his PC. He lives in Sydney, so I don't know if that stuff is available here in the US or not. But I was there when I bought it. Pull it out of the box, plug it into the wall socket for power. About three clicks and the PC found it, and two clicks later he was printing. It was amazingly cool, and useful too!

        As a short-range peripheral interconnect, Bluetooth has a lot going for it. Bluetooth support under Windows is great when it works, but it requires third-party software and isn't as transparent as it could be. I'm really looking forward to iSync, because it'll let me extend my little Bluetooth LAN to include my iBook (my laptop of choice; the ThinkPad belongs to my employer) and my iMac at home.

        Don't poo-poo Bluetooth, or any other new technology, out of hand just because you don't know anybody personally who uses it. Just as you're saying that it isn't automatically cool, I'm saying that it isn't automatically useless, either.
      • Until Jobs, Gates, or Nealy can get on stage and say "This is the Nokia 3425, Ford Tunester, and Kenmore Neat-n-Shit and you can go to the store and buy them right now." These demo's are just Marketing/PR to make all the geeks love them.

        Is this good enough for you? Look at . It lists several cell phones that work with isync.

        The idea is a great one. Enter the addresses/phone numbers/schedule on your Mac, then automatically sync with you iPod (yes, iPod)/Palm/Cell phone. This is very, very cool stuff. Made me think about getting a new cell phone for a half-second.


      • I agree, geewhiz tech gizmos suck, especially if they don't show up. Here's the kicker though: most of the stuff that Steve Jobs showed off exists! It's called iSync (to be released later around 10.2), combined with the features of 10.2 and bluetooth. You can buy a DLink DWB-120M USB Adapter [] to get the bluetooth connectivity. You can buy the Palm Bluetooh SD Card [] to get your palm working. You can buy a Sony Ericsson T68 phone [] to get the actual phone part of it working. They even have a MacWorld link [] embellishing both Apple and Sony on bluetooth. For Apple, this Bluetooth stuff is demonstratable *and* purchaseable.
  • MPEG-4 Stream (Score:5, Interesting)

    by dhovis ( 303725 ) on Wednesday July 17, 2002 @11:27AM (#3901840)
    Phil Schiller noted near the beginning that they had 50,000 streams going and 25,000 of them were using the MPEG-4 stream. I think he said that this was the largest MPEG-4 streaming session ever.

    I was sitting at home using the MPEG-4 stream on my iBook 500 over 802.11b through my Linksys base station. The video didn't hiccup once, even as I walked around. I'm impressed. The picture wasn't huge, but it was pretty good quality, even viewed at 2x size. There may be hope for streaming video yet.

    iSync looks pretty cool, too. Next time I upgrade my phone, I want to get one with Bluetooth so I can use it. I've tried using a Palm, but I don't need something that big. One of those Sony Ericsson phones would do me just fine for what I want a palm for. Contacts, calander, to do... I'm glad that there is an open standard (SyncML) to do it.

    Oh, one more thing...

    The 20GB iPod is not the same size as the 10GB model, it is a little thicker than the 5GB model.

    • I agree... the MPEG4 stream was great. I was expecting to get disconnected or to experience some stuttering or pausing- i did not experience any problems at all. They really did a good job of putting together a decent system for serving the stream. I wonder how many viewers they were planning for and if they met or exceeded their expectations?
  • Cost of 17" Imac (Score:2, Informative)

    by abouttime ( 542316 )
    The one thing I didnt hear in the speach was the price of the new iMac. Just looked at the apple store, its $1999.
  • Jobs also announced Windows versions of iPod, synching with musicmatch and including a FireWire 6-to-4 pin cable.

    Neat. Ummm, at the risk of sounding stupid, what is a 6-to-4 pin cable?

    It's just a pity that my major source of bandwidth is at work and they'd never ever let me open up my machine to stick in a firewire card :(

    • Re:Question (Score:5, Informative)

      by mccalli ( 323026 ) on Wednesday July 17, 2002 @11:34AM (#3901908) Homepage
      Ummm, at the risk of sounding stupid, what is a 6-to-4 pin cable?

      Some firewire interfaces, notably Sony's iLink and most laptops, don't provide power to the ports. These normally take a four-pin cable rather than a six-pin cable. Six-pins carry the full power.

      Basically, he's saying that it's easier to plug in your Sony DV gear now.


    • Re:Question (Score:4, Informative)

      by jht ( 5006 ) on Wednesday July 17, 2002 @11:35AM (#3901924) Homepage Journal
      A lot of Wintel boxes (especially laptops) only have a 4-pin variant of the Firewire port, that doesn't provide power to the bus. All Macs use the full 6-pin version that powers the bus and recharges the iPod directly.

      So an adapter's needed for the Windows version else they may not be able to connect.
    • Firewire has two different types of cables, the 4 and the 6 pin style. 6 pin is quite a bit larger, is used on all modern Macintoshes and can get quite a bit of power to the device. 4 pins is smaller but can't get the power to the device. Most pc's use the 4 pin variety but Apple stuck with the full sized 6 pin on both the Mac and the iPod so you can power and yes, charge the ipod from the Mac's power supply. With Windows they supply a more standard 4-6 pin cable which means you need a seperate way to charge it since one connector doesn't not have the 2 pins for power. Apple usually comes through and supplies an adapter to charge from the wall outlet.
  • What I want to know is, looking into the future, what happens when a really big update comes along? Will they stay with 10.x forever, or will there be something more than point releases? "OS XI"? "OS X 11"? (I could foresee some confusion there!)


    • by anothy ( 83176 ) on Wednesday July 17, 2002 @12:30PM (#3902411) Homepage
      Unix from AT&T had a similar problem. they kept calling it "System N" and incrementing N. when they hit "System V" (the first to use a roman numeral, i think), they started pushing the tagline "consider it standard" to combat the fears of people noting that there was no official standard for Unix, unlike pretty much everything else the Bell System did. and, lo and behold, people sorta took AT&T's word for it!
      the problem was, it worked so well they couldn't increment N any more, because "System V" was the standard (and thus whatever came next wouldn't be).
      so the went to "System V Release 2" and got through about SVR4 before that got "stuck" as a "standard" with the various splits and unification efforts in the unix community. so they did "SVR4.1" and so on. then they started adding letters when that got stuck.
      many commercial unixes will still tell you they run a "SVR4.3x" (i think) kernel. it wasn't until SCO (the then-owners of the original Unix strain) did UnixWare 7 (i think) that they incremented to SVR5.

      just a bit of Unix history.
  • If everyone started doing this, interesting scenarios/questions emerge..

    1) Would Apple let users to substract one dollar per bug as they are discovered ?

    2) Would Microsoft start paying their users to use Longhorn ?

    3) Somebody please tell me why Linux is free ?

    Flamebait/OffTopic/Troll..Is that all you got???
  • I'm slightly disappointed not to read about DVD+RW as an option in iMacs. DVD-RW seems to have lost the battle, and I would have thought that now would be a good time to make the switch.

    I think I've mentioned before - I'd love to get a new iMac, but lack of software is holding me back. Not the generalised moan you often hear about, but three specific areas:

    • No UK version of Quicken (absolutely crucial to me)
    • Remote desktop display is a $200 extra.
    • No standards-compliant video conferencing under OSX

    Sadly, I have to conclude the iMac is still not a viable machine for me. Damned shame - I'd love to get one otherwise.


  • by jht ( 5006 ) on Wednesday July 17, 2002 @11:31AM (#3901884) Homepage Journal

    - iPod upgrades and price cuts.
    - iPod for Windows
    - Jaguar before Labor Day
    - All the new software tools
    - Wide-screen iMac!
    - Price cut on the old Superdrive iMac (though that's the original price pre-hike)
    - iSync - way cool
    - .Mac - nice new features


    - The new iMac is still PC100/800 MHz
    - No "upgrade edition" of Jaguar. A $49 or around that version of Jaguar that would only install over an existing MacOS X install would be good. I should get some bonus for being an early user.
    - .Mac pricing. There should be a scaled-back free edition, like the other services providers offer. I expounded on this in a comment on the initial .Mac thread earlier today.
    - No support for either USB 2.0 or Firewire 2 yet. Introducing the new iMac with that would have been nice.


    - The iPod accessory kits (pretty much all available in the 3rd party market already)
    - The pricing of the new iMac
    - The lack of changes to the other price points (I was expecting across-the-board iMac price cuts, but no biggie)
    • by Garin ( 26873 ) on Wednesday July 17, 2002 @01:47PM (#3903105)
      Yep. There's good and bad. For me, though, today's announcements caused a subtle shift in my feelings. See, I just bought an iBook a couple of months ago.

      Yesterday, I was a proud and happy mac owner. I really enjoyed it, and I thought the value was excellent. I was excited about the new software, the new hardware, and just the whole new approach that apple takes to computing. (Before I bought the iBook, I was primarily FreeBSD + M$ for games). I bought a new digital camera, and I already have over a thousand great pictures in iPhoto. I have 4GB of music in iTunes. All my friends use my iTools email address, and read my iTools webpages. I was learning how to develop with Cocoa. I was exploring the Unix guts, and getting to know it quite well. Even after months of use, I still thought the iBook was fun and cool -- previous laptops and other toys quickly became routine, but this was still a thrill.

      Today, I -still- use iPhoto, iTunes, and the development tools. However, my attitude has shifted. Before I was totally hooked by the software and the hardware, and I was very happy and excited about it. I read the apple rumours sites, and really enjoyed this new approach. Now, after today, I'm -still- hooked by all of the software, but now I feel bitter and slightly resentful about that fact. iTunes, iPhoto, and all the rest are still excellent programs that I really don't want to give up. Now, as I say, I resent that fact rather than relish it.

      The first hit is free I guess. It's very evil, what they did to me. They got me hooked, and then used it against me. *sigh*. I'll probably buy the update AND pay for the iTools/.Mac/whatever, but grudgingly. Because I'm hooked. I suppose it's my own fault, since companies exist purely to make profit and I conveniently ignored that while I played with my shiny new toys. Ah well. It was fun for a while I guess.
  • I was pretty happy with the announcements at MacWorld NY today. I was really surprised that Apple has added Windows support for the iPod. It will be interesting to see how many of these they sell once it's available.
    I watched the MPEG4 stream with QuickTime 6 on OSX... it was fantastic- no stuttering, no hiccups, the sound was good and the quality of the movie itself was great.
  • by Anonymous Cowtard ( 573891 ) on Wednesday July 17, 2002 @11:33AM (#3901902)
    iI ithink ithat ithey iare itaking ithis i'i' inaming ithing ito ifar.
  • looking at the .mac homepage [], it appears that the $50/first year will provide a "full email" account and that a "full account" gives you more idisk storage. it doesn't say the free accounts are going away.

    am i looking in the wrong place?
    • The FAQ says it will start deactivating original iTools accounts that have not paid starting in Sept. There's also a blurb about what steps to take to save your email to disk and that you should notify people your address is no longer valid.

      To me that is == no more email for us :(
  • It sure would be nice if they had announced that I could spend like... $500 to get my 15" screen "switch"ed (HA!) to a 17" widescreen... oh well... once my flatpanel iMac becomes really obsolete I'll just buy their wearable computer that they will be selling in 2005...
  • by mcc ( 14761 ) <> on Wednesday July 17, 2002 @11:37AM (#3901937) Homepage
    Just one little interesting tidbit i noticed that is getting kind of lost in the noise: Did anyone else notice the little note on the Jaguar [] page? Apparently the 10.2 developer tools use GCC 3.1!

    I found this interesting, as i had heard that the bulk of the linux distributions had not yet managed to migrate to GCC 3. Neat to see Apple is staying on top of this whole UNIX-technology thing :)
    • by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday July 17, 2002 @11:47AM (#3902021)
      The linux kenrel itself depends on a number of GNU C Extensions (features that are in GCC but not in the C standard) - and it also (stupidly) depends on particular optimisations gcc performs.

      On Mac OS X, things depend on one very large gcc extension - "Objective C" (an object-oriented extension to C, conceptually similar to C++, but, unlike C++, actually good.), rather than lots of small ones. Changes to ObjC seem to be integrated in large chunks, driven only by Apple and GNUStep, so a cutting-edge gcc tends to be required to get the latest, Apple/GNUStep critical changes. There is little dpendency on particular gcc optimisations in the darwin kernel - hence, while darwin performance may be lower than Linux, you don't get a week-long flamefest on LKML and gcc-list whenever gcc changes something like you do with Linux.

  • The NASDAQ is up as I write this, an hour or so after Steve's keynote. But Apple stock is down 13%.
  • by vought ( 160908 ) on Wednesday July 17, 2002 @11:39AM (#3901958)
    As a Mac user for nearly 18 years, I'm quite happy that Apple is now charging some modest fees for their value-added services.

    This is something that Microsoft's hedgemony WON'T let other PC manufacturers do - at least not to the extent that Apple has shown here. If Gateway (Dell, whoever) wants to create a value-added portal like .mac, they've got to fight similar interests at Microsoft.

    Apple has no such conflict - they own the whole ball of wax, so the hardware and OS sides of the company can work together to produce a best-in-class (and don't pretend they aren't class-leading or at least very innovative and polished) set of services for Mac users - for free in many cases (iTunes, iPhoto) and for a modest yearly charge in other cases.

    My ISP charges $20.00 a month for a 5MB mailox and 50MB of FTP space. Apple is providing more than that for $100.00 a year. That's half off for me - for more space.

    Owning a mac has never looked better. Apple is again taking positive steps to increase revenue growth and reduce it's dependence on volatile hardware sales. Reasonable prices for services that generate recurring product refreshes on a regular basis to win the fence sitters and an advertising program that _is_ winning over some converts (right here in my office) - rather unfunny Penny Arcade cartoons notwithstanding.

    Good job, Apple.
  • by Walker ( 96239 ) on Wednesday July 17, 2002 @11:42AM (#3901978)
    I just went to the education Apple Store online. You can preorder 10.2 and the price is listed as $69. As I haven't paid since 10.0 (And got a huge discount because of the Public Beta/Education double dip) I am not complaining much.

    With that said, giving a $20 upgrade only from people ordering today is not enough time for an OS that ships in a month. Any software vendor that ships an upgrade gives upgrade pricing to everyone that bought within the last 3-4 months. Apple should at least follow that model.

  • As the first keynote I've watched, I have to say I was impressed with how well it came off. Jobs had a few glitches along the way with some of the new feature demos, but recovered nicely. There're a lot of people saying Apple's so bad for charging for "what was free" but the thing is, they're doing what had to be done. iTools cost them money, and a pretty substantial chunk I'm sure. And .Mac will actually do nothing but improve the iTools featureset. iCal, five times the storage space, and iSync could make .Mac quite useful to a lot of people. I'm not one of them yet, but I definitely respect the effort they've gone to. Yes, I'm a bit upset that they're taking away my email address - and wouldn't be too surprised if they turned around and let people keep the email addresses for nothing if people complain enough - but I won't get pissed off.

    And $100 a year isn't a bad price, considering the integration you get. One service to offer all those features, rather than five services and a mishmash of programs to do it.

    And even though $129 seems a bit of a shock for 10.2, it really isn't a point upgrade so much as it is a rewrite level. Compare 10.2 to 7.5, if you're familiar with Mac history. 10.2 gives you a whole new rendering layer for new Mac machines, a hell of a speed boost from the reports I've heard, and several new features like iCal, iSync and Rendevouz. I'll probably pay for it. I -would- like a $49 upgrade for 10.1 owners, but I think Apple's probably feeling enough of a financial pinch not to do that.

    I think the part of it all that would be most respected by Slashdot readers is the fact that open standards were touted quite loudly. SyncML and Rendevouz (zeroconf) primarily. They might not be opening up as much as we want in some areas, but at least when they're moving in a new direction they look like they're trying to make the best of it.

    And I've decided people who push for open sourcing -everything- in OS X, or porting to x86 are just idiots with no business sense. That would kill Apple's income. 'nuff said.
  • And the rest of us? (Score:3, Informative)

    by neema ( 170845 ) on Wednesday July 17, 2002 @11:47AM (#3902022) Homepage
    The iPod news is great. Especially if it were to have happened a few months ago when I actually purchased the thing.

    I appreciate the response to what the market wanted. But half of the indication that the market wanted a Windows version iPod was that some people (read: me) bought it and worked around the mac-only restriction. Are there not going to be any updates?

    Interesting enough, my wheel has deteriated a bit, and when I wrote CS for Apple telling them about it, they said that what I was describing was "not a common problem" and that it didn't "inhibit use of the iPod" so it really wasn't a problem. I wonder why they released a touch-sensitive, non-moving wheel if it wasn't such a common problem.

    The reason working with Apple is a hassle is because of releases like this. While I would shit my pants to be able to switch my iPod with one with a touch sensitive wheel... fine, that's understandable. Such is the progression of technology. But a carrying case? It's not exactly an "industry first", as Apple likes to say about most things they do. Why not throw it out there when I had purchased my 10 gig beforehand? When I had purchased my Nomad II MG before this mp3 player, it came with a case. Not a good case, mind you, but it still came with it. That was appreciated.
    • by mgblst ( 80109 )
      The trick is to keep waiting. Always keep waiting, because there is always something better aroung the corner, this is why i only have a p2-266. Sure you miss out on heaps of cool stuff, but at least you don't get BITTER at waisting a lot of money.
  • Dont like it? (Score:5, Informative)

    by cybercuzco ( 100904 ) on Wednesday July 17, 2002 @12:00PM (#3902159) Homepage Journal
    If you dont like the .mac fees, let apple know here [] This is a general discussion forum for the new .mac service.
  • by Krashed ( 264119 ) on Wednesday July 17, 2002 @12:05PM (#3902189) Journal
    I just got off the phone with Apple and they said "you'll have to buy two ipods if you want to use them on Windows and the Mac." Damn it, why can't Apple just for once make it easy.

    I am putting off my order of the iPod until I find out if there is a workaround for the "feature". That really bytes too cause it looks like the Apple Store is also offering a free car power adapter with the purchase of the iPod.
    • by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday July 17, 2002 @12:56PM (#3902658)
      You can't use the same iPod on two Mac's either. It's the pound of flesh Apple paid to the copyright gods, to make sure that the iPod wasn't seen as a music stealing device instead of a music playing device.

      The implementation is that one iPod is linked to one computer and you can't use it to trade music from computer to computer. Of course there are hacks to get around this, but iTunes won't let you synch up music to your Mac if the music on the iPod was downloaded from another Mac. I assume the same thing will be true with the Windows version.
      • Just read Apple's knowledge base. If you turn off the Automatic iPod update in the iTunes control panel, you can COPY the music to the iPod from several Macs. You cannot copy the music back to the computer though without third party software.
  • 17" is wide profile (Score:4, Informative)

    by inkfox ( 580440 ) on Wednesday July 17, 2002 @12:05PM (#3902192) Homepage
    Bonus cool points:

    Not only is the display 17", at 1440 x 900 with square pixels, it's wide aspect. This is far better for movie playback.

    I'm seriously tempted to get one just for watching DVDs.

  • by Dan Crash ( 22904 ) on Wednesday July 17, 2002 @12:25PM (#3902340) Journal
    Check out their homepage []. The slightly effete but expressive classic Apple Garamond font has been replaced by a plain, rather ugly version of Adobe Myriad Roman []. Say it ain't so! But it is.

    They started it with the eMac, but I assumed it was some education-only market differentiator. Apparently not. There's a little more at Mired [].

    Personally, I think it's a terrible change. And a stupid one. They'd built a huge amount of brand identity with Apple Garamond, to the point where anything written in it reminded you of Apple. The new font has no personality at all. Is that what they were going for?

    P.S. The Myriad Roman link is a Google cache of a page that 404's now.
  • by morcheeba ( 260908 ) on Wednesday July 17, 2002 @12:29PM (#3902391) Journal
    The ipod warranty [] has been improved to one year, up from its much criticized 90 day warranty. The ipod service page [] doesn't reflect this new warranty yet... out-of-warranty repairs cost an amazing $256.

    Yesterday I read an article in a major newspaper (NYT, WSJ, or washington post - sorry, couldn't find link) describing how many high tech things (including the ipod) didn't come with suitable warranties -- for example, dell just changed from a 3 year to 1 year warranty.
  • just 'steal' it (Score:5, Insightful)

    by jchristopher ( 198929 ) on Wednesday July 17, 2002 @01:27PM (#3902943)
    If ever there was an OS update that deserved to be 'stolen', this is it. For 18 months now, OS X users have been promised dramatic speed increases and an end to the spinning beach ball of death "real soon now". Every update has delivered tiny incremental speed increases, yet even with 10.1.5, the GUI still lags.

    The people that have already bought and paid for OS X are Apple's staunchest supporters. If anyone deserves to finally have a fast OS, it's them. Yet they are being asked to pay full tilt ($129) for the speed that should have been there in the very first release.

    OS X as it currently sits can be slow even on fast Mac hardware, and annoyingly laggy on slower Macs. This is simply not acceptable. Mac OS X users deserve these fixes for free, and I suspect that most people will take them without paying if they have the opportunity.

  • by SPYvSPY ( 166790 ) on Wednesday July 17, 2002 @02:47PM (#3903579) Homepage
    The online petition to oppose the new .Mac charges is available at here. []

    My 2 cents: The email accounts should remain free. The rest can be value-add fee-based.
  • by Sebastopol ( 189276 ) on Wednesday July 17, 2002 @03:16PM (#3903802) Homepage
    What's up with Job's quote:

    '...Apple is now the biggest supplier of Unix-based operating systems in the world -- "bigger than Sun, bigger than Linux" -- Apple CEO Steve Jobs announced during his Macworld keynote speech on Wednesday...'

    Anybody buy this?
  • by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday July 17, 2002 @03:25PM (#3903872)

    I just called the Apple store at 1-800-my-apple, and the rep told me that the upgrade proof of purchase coupons you get when you buy a new machine will not apply to this upgrade, so it's $129 across the board, (unless you buy your machine starting today, and it doesn't already have Jaguar installed).

    She told me Apple is taking comments from (potential) customers to gauge their reactions, and that it could possibly result in changes to the plan. (Remember that the upgrade isn't actually available until August 24...plenty of time for them to change the pricing policy).

    In my case, I told them I was a "switcher" who has bought two new macs (an iMac and an iBook) in the last four months, and I was very unhappy that I'll need to pay $260 to upgrade them to 10.2. I suggested that they should at least honor the coupons and give a price break for them.

    Call them and tell them what you think...maybe we can make a difference.

  • iSpeak (Score:3, Funny)

    by techstar25 ( 556988 ) <techstar25 @ g m a i> on Wednesday July 17, 2002 @03:34PM (#3903947) Journal
    iWant to iGet iMyself iOne of iThose iNew 17" iMacs.
  • by Etcetera ( 14711 ) on Wednesday July 17, 2002 @05:36PM (#3904886) Homepage

    I think it's interesting how people are calling Jaguar just a "bug fix release" or "service pack" even though there are a TON of new features and archetecural improvements running behind the scenes.

    Apple is one of the few non-Unix companies that still cares about a semi-consistant versioning scheme:

    v A.B.C
    A=Major release number, new paradigms, etc...
    B=Minor release number, incremental improvements
    C=Bug fix release

    In the past, Apple has bumped the minor release to x.5 when some sort of major incompatability occurred (ie, OS 8.5 was the first to require a PowerPC Mac). They didn't do that here, but I wonder people would be as bent out of shape about it if Apple *had* called this Mac OS X 10.5. Or maybe Mac OS X 2002? Compare the product on a feature-level, not a numeric level.

    Apple usually isn't willing to inflate a version jump for marketing purposes:

    - Mac OS 6 to 7 was a giant jump in terms of structure.

    - Mac OS 7.1.1 to 7.5 wasn't quite as big, but did greatly expand the "experience" with new technologies (and doubled the distribution size).

    - Mac OS 7.6.1 to 8.0 had a major UI overhaul, mutli-threaded Finder, and major architectural re-writes.

    - Mac OS 8.5 began life as 8.2 until it hit beta and it was decided that it would be PowerPC only. (Even though it was 8.6 that deserved the monkier thanks to the new microkernel.)

    - Mac OS 9 was Mac OS 8.7 until a beta as well, although that was probably to help maintain a clear separation between OS 9 (designed to work with X) and 8 (not).

    - Even though OS X is in roman numerals, it's still numerically just OS 10.x.

    Compare this to Microsoft (and, by following MS's example, a majority of the Windows software out there) which gets away with murder by renaming a bug patch according to the current year and can charge an arm and a leg for it. Even MS realized that Windows 98 was just Windows 4.1 (and Office 98 contains Word 7.0).

    Could someone please tell me where the hell Windows Media Player 8 went though?

"I will make no bargains with terrorist hardware." -- Peter da Silva