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Apple Businesses

Apple to Unveil .Mac Today 559

Posted by pudge from the um-yay dept.
Steve Mason writes "Apple has put up a .Mac FAQ up here proving that .Mac will indeed be introduced at Mac World New York. .Mac will cost $100 a year as previous rumors had reported." Yes, this means that if you don't pay Apple, your mac.com URL and email address will stop working. Some have suggested that the "switch" in Apple's new ad campaign stands for the unfortunate part of a "bait and switch." Someone should mirror that URL, it might be taken down any second now.
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Apple to Unveil .Mac Today More

Apple to Unveil .Mac Today

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  • Burger King is finally going to beat a competitor. (Score:3, Funny)

    by Warmth Is Life ( 569686 ) on Wednesday July 17, 2002 @06:39AM (#3900418)
    NO ONE is willing to pay a hundred dollars for a big.mac.

  • She's breaking up captain. (Score:4, Informative)

    by SubtleNuance ( 184325 ) on Wednesday July 17, 2002 @06:42AM (#3900428) Journal
    Q: Is it true that Apple will begin charging customers for iTools memberships?

    On Wednesday, July 17, 2002, Apple notified its customers that iTools will be replaced by a new membership service called .Mac. The membership includes brand new features, like Backup and Virex anti-virus software, and improved versions of the iTools services, like additional email and iDisk storage. The fee is US$99.95 per year, and as a thank you for being loyal customers, existing iTools members can reserve a first year special offer of $49.95. iTools members will have until September 30 to join .Mac. After this time, original iTools accounts will be deactivated.

    Q: What does a .Mac membership include?

    A .Mac membership includes everything you need for life on the Internet. Join .Mac and get the tools you need to share and communicate with family and friends, while keeping your system safe. Software and services included with a .Mac membership are:

    Communication and sharing

    HomePage with new visitor feedback features
    Mac.com Email with IMAP and 15MB of storage that can be upgraded for more
    Ability to purchase up to 10 additional email accounts
    iDisk with 100MB of storage that can be upgraded for more
    iDisk utility software for group sharing of files

    Safety and security

    Backup software to back up your files to iDisk, CD, or DVD
    Virex anti-virus software to keep your system protected
    Continuous anti-virus updates to protect from the latest threats
    Members-only support with private discussion boards moderated by Apple technical support representatives

    Q: Why is Apple charging for iTools?

    Providing email and storage solutions for millions of customers comes at a considerable cost. In addition, using the Internet today requires more storage space, better ways to share, and new ways to protect your important files. To continue providing iTools services as well as a new set of must-haves for computing on the Internet, Apple is charging an annual fee.

    Bought individually, comparable products would cost you an estimated $250:

    Anti-virus: $50
    Backup: $40
    100MB of online storage: $60
    15MB of email storage, forwarding and POP/IMAP access: $40+
    Home page creation and hosting: $60
    (These prices are approximate, and may vary.)
    Q: Will current iTools members be given a discount?

    Yes. Current iTools members can purchase a one-year .Mac membership for US$49.95. (If purchased within the 60-day grace period). Normal charges (US$99.95) will apply after the first year.

    Customers who have already paid for an upgrade to their existing iTools account (for additional storage) will receive the first year of their .Mac membership at no charge. Normal charges (US$99.95) will apply after the first year.

    Q: Is there a "grace" period before charges begin?

    Yes. Existing iTools accounts have been converted to 60-day .Mac trial accounts, and will continue to have full access to Mac.com Email, HomePages and iDisk, plus the opportunity to sample many of the new .Mac services during the trial period.

    Q: What does a .Mac trial account include?

    A .Mac trial account includes:
    Trial version of Apple's new Backup software to back up files to iDisk (backup to CD or DVD requires a paid membership)
    20MB (vs 100MB for paid membership) of iDisk storage, so you can continue to store all your files in one place
    iDisk Utility software to set read/write access to and password protect your Public Folder (great for group sharing of files)
    Mac.com Email with 5MB (vs 15MB for paid membership) of email storage, including IMAP/POP and Webmail access, forwarding, and photo signature
    HomePage for publishing web sites as well as photo albums directly from iPhoto
    iCards, including the ability to use your own images

    NOTE: Trial memberships do not include the Virex software or access to .Mac Support Discussion Boards.

    Q: Can I pay monthly?

    No. The annual membership fee must be paid at one time.

    Q: Do all the new software and services work in both Mac OS 9 and Mac OS X?

    Backup and iDisk Utility require Mac OS X. All other software and services, including Virex anti-virus, iDisk, Email, HomePage and iDisk, work in both Mac OS 9 and Mac OS X. iDisk and Mac.com Email also work with most Windows operating systems.

    Q: How will Apple notify me of the membership charges?

    Apple has notified all iTools account members via their Mac.com Email accounts. They will also receive follow-up emails with more information. The .Mac web site will display information about the membership features and charges. Your will also see reminders of account expiration when you log into the .Mac service on the web site.

    Q: Can I upgrade my storage space?

    Trial members cannot upgrade their storage. But once you become a full .Mac member, you can upgrade both your Mac.com Email and your iDisk storage. You can also purchase up to ten additional email accounts.

    Email storage iDisk storage
    15MB Included 100MB (No additional charge) Included
    25MB (adding10MB) $10 200MB (adding 100MB) $60
    50MB (adding 35MB) $30 300MB (adding 200MB) $100
    100MB (adding 85MB) $50 500MB (adding 400MB) $180
    200MB (adding 185MB) $90 1GB (adding 900MB) $350

    Additional Mac.com Email accounts include 5MB of storage and cost $10 per year. There is no additional storage available for email-only accounts, and the photo signature feature is not available.

    Q: I already paid for an iDisk upgrade, what will happen to my account?

    If you purchased iDisk storage in the 12 months prior to July 17th, 2002, you will receive a one-year complimentary .Mac membership. The amount of additional iDisk storage will be available to you through the end of the membership.

    Note: At the end of your one-year complimentary .Mac membership the membership and additional iDisk storage will be automatically renewed for the following year and your credit card will be charged

    Q: Is there any technical support included in the .Mac membership?

    .Mac members receive thorough web-based support, dedicated to ensuring that they will get the most out of the service. Members have access to Frequently Asked Questions (FAQs), instant system/network status, the AppleCare Knowledge Base, and private discussion boards moderated by Apple technical support representatives to ensure that questions are answered within one business day.

    NOTE: Support for the standalone applications consists strictly of installation, launch, and removal.

    Q: What level of support is offered to trial members?

    Trial or grace period customers have access to all the Apple Care online support features. The .Mac Support discussion boards are reserved for paying members only.

    Q: Does .Mac include Internet Service Provider (ISP) services?

    No, but a .Mac membership does require Internet access. Apple's preferred ISP is EarthLink, and Macintosh customers can get a free 30-day trial.

    Q: What happens to my data if I choose not to join .Mac

    Following the 60-day trial period, any home pages, Backup or other files stored in iDisk and messages left on the email server will be removed.

    Q: If I decide not to sign up for .Mac, how do I preserve my data?

    iDisk
    Open your iDisk and drag all your files to your own hard disk.

    Email
    If you're using IMAP, open your email client and create a local mailbox. Drag email you want to keep from your Mac.com mailboxes to the local mailbox. For more detailed information on this topic, please see the Email Help section.
    If you're using POP, your messages are already stored on your local machine.

    Email address
    Inform your contacts of your new email address if you have one. Any message sent to your Mac.com Email address after the account expiration date will bounce back to the sender.

    HomePage
    If you created your web pages using an HTML editor other than HomePage, move your files located in the iDisk Sites folder to your desktop or to another hosting server.
    Inform your contacts of your new home page address if you have one.

    Q: Can I still send iCards for free?

    Yes. Standard iCards may be sent without a .Mac membership. Custom iCards using your own images will require membership.

    Q: Is .Mac available to Microsoft Windows users?

    Customers cannot sign up for a .Mac trial using a Windows machine, but they can sign up for a full .Mac membership. IDisk and Mac.com Email can be used on a Windows machine.

    NOTE: The standalone applications, such as Virex and Backup and the HomePage web application are not available to Microsoft Windows machines.

    Q: Which web browsers are supported?

    Macintosh: Microsoft Internet Explorer 5.x, Netscape 4.7.X and up
    Windows: Microsoft Internet Explorer 5.x, Netscape Navigator 5.X

    • huh? (Score:3, Insightful)

      by SubtleNuance ( 184325 )
      Bought individually, comparable products would cost you an estimated $250: What?

      Anti-virus: $50 Once - not yearly
      Backup: $40 online backup - does anyone do this? Whats wrong w/ burning your 'keeper' stuff to a CDR? You certainly wont have room to store your apps/OS, whats the point?Besides, to you want Apple in possession of your personal data - they have nosy admins also you know...
      100MB of online storage: $60 there are free hosting companies all over the net..
      15MB of email storage, forwarding and POP/IMAP access: $40+ Free with my ISPBR
      Home page creation and hosting: $60 Arent there template-style HomeSite(Builder) sites w/ free hosting on the net..? Again, free

      • Re:huh? (Score:2, Insightful)

        by sjehay ( 83181 )
        > Backup: $40 online backup - does anyone do this? Whats wrong w/ burning your 'keeper' stuff to a CDR? You certainly wont have room to store your apps/OS, whats the point?Besides, to you want Apple in possession of your personal data - they have nosy admins also you know...

        I quote (emphasis mine):

        • Backup software to back up your files to iDisk, CD, or DVD
        The $40 is their estimate of how much a standard backup application would cost; their one it seems will let you back up either to their servers or to a CD-R etc. as normal.

      • Re:huh? (Score:2, Insightful)

        by Asim ( 20552 )
        does anyone do this? Whats wrong w/ burning your 'keeper' stuff to a CDR?
        Offsite storage, a critical part of any real backup solution. I would do it if I could find a decent Linux solution/provider of such services. A searh on Google will reveal any number of such companies, however.
        You certainly wont have room to store your apps/OS, whats the point?
        Aside from the above, Apps and OS are recoverable from your original CD's plus patches -- the number of times I've reinstalled various OSes proves that. Configurations and documents, which can fit into that sized space, are not, and would be the focus for a user of such a system.
        there are free hosting companies all over the net..
        As someone who is shopping for a new hosting company, allow me to assure you there are no free hosts that provide 100MB. $60 is inflated -- $15-$40 would be more accurate -- but if they also avoid banners, this will be worth looking into.

        Having said all that...I agree that springing this on their users with a 3 months warning period is wrong. Apple should know better; such activities are the sign of a weak company that's forgotten that customers make the rules. I know they have to make money, but making their users suffer for Apple's bad gamble is terribly short-sighted.

      • Re:huh? (Score:3, Interesting)

        by lubricated ( 49106 )
        "Anti-virus: $50 Once - not yearly"
        You still have to get updates for new viruses
        perhaps $20/year
        "Backup: $40 online backup - does anyone do this?"
        Yes, it's much better than going through tons
        of cdr's, this is painless.
        "100MB of online storage: $60 there are free hosting companies all over the net."
        Most stink and none offer 100MB, for free.
        "15MB of email storage, forwarding and POP/IMAP access: $40+ Free with my ISPBR"
        No it's not free, you are paying for it. In
        fact my ISP(ATTbi) sucks so bad when it comes
        to email, I have another host my email acounts
        (one for me and one for my wife). So I'm
        paying $6/month. So $72/year, I get web/imap
        pop and shell access.
        "Home page creation and hosting: $60 Arent there template-style HomeSite(Builder) sites w/ free hosting on the net..? Again, free"
        Yes, but are there any without their
        advertising, annoyingly popping up on your
        own page? I doubt it

        $100/year = $8.33/month not a bad deal.
        Especially the introductory $50/year = $4.17/month. That's cheaper than proper email hosting.

    • lol (Score:3, Interesting)

      by shren ( 134692 )

      • Anti-virus: $50
      • Backup: $40
      • 100MB of online storage: $60
      • 15MB of email storage, forwarding and POP/IMAP access: $40+
      • Home page creation and hosting: $60

      Right. I get pretty much all this from Illuminati Online [io.com] Here's the current deal:

      Our SSH Internet Unix Shell Access package with one e-mail address, 50 MB of storage, anonymous FTP access, your own majordomo e-mail list server messaging group, and 24/7 support.

      Having your own web page is a part of shell access, it seems (I have one). All this: 14 bucks a month. 14 bucks. What magic lets them offer most of what .mac will offer for a mere 14 bucks? Simple. They're not ripping you off.

      Disclosure: I have no association with io.com except having been a customer for years.

      • Re:lol (Score:3, Insightful)

        by chrismear ( 535657 )
        Um... 14 bucks x 12 months = 168 bucks a year.
        Which is more than Apple's asking for (99.95 bucks a year). Or am I missing something?

      • Re:lol (Score:4, Funny)

        by Rand Race ( 110288 ) on Wednesday July 17, 2002 @07:50AM (#3900776) Homepage
        .Mac is $100/year not per month.

        Your post is the first to actually make .mac sound like a good deal.

      • I've always heard io.com is a good company but I think you're skipping over some things. First, even Mac owners should have antivirus software which not onlly has an up-front cost but continuing to get the updates costs around $20/year. you have web hosting but I bet you don't have online page creation tools, if you want a page you're on your own. That may not be of value to you but it is to many people. For things like putting up a folder of pictures, you don't really have to do anything at all with .Mac.

        BTW, as far as I can tell, io.com's $14/month ($168/year) plan does *not* include dial-up service, it's just a shell account with some extras.

        • Re:lol (Score:2, Funny)

          by dubiousmike ( 558126 )
          It's pretty disturbing how one day /. can post a story about how MAC users are smarter than PC folks, then run a story on how Apple is trying to pork their customers with tools for simpletons (at least the home page builder) by holding our existing email accounts hostage (eventually).

          This is great for my mom (or my friend, or many of my coworkers) who can barely turn on their Mac, but not for the UNIX/MAC crowd.

          I find it ironic that Apple is giving their customers a big dose of M$ style medicine.

          But... Businesses are businesses. Apple needs to make money. This strikes me that if Apple became the defacto standard for computing, they'd deal with us as roughly as M$ has. Why? Because they're a business. They aren't out to give away the farm. They are out to succeed and make money for those investing in them. Yes, they want to put out a quality product. But their top priority is to make money and position themselves as best they can within the market.

          And Jeff Goldblum seemed so mellow; I thought I was safe... ;^)

    • Backup to iDisk?? 100MB backup service isn't that good... I can backup to a CD 6 times for the 0.50$ cost of a CD.

      As for the email... Even hotmail is 'free'. I'd rather take ads and spam over 100$ / year.
    • News.com has an article [com.com] of their own about this very thing.

  • Sad Loss of free iTools.... (Score:3, Informative)

    by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday July 17, 2002 @06:44AM (#3900436)
    yegods, posting as an AC.

    I can't see this as a *smart* move - except from an accounting point of view ("we do something for free? Charge for it!").

    For those who don't know - Apple's iTools provided users with a free email address (@mac.com), a free webpage (with limitations) and an internet accesible storage space of a few measly MB.

    Sitting on the other side of the world from Apple US, the email is useful, but I've never found any of the other services useful.

    I'm hardly about to start paying $50 or $100 a year for an email address when I can get from Microsoft or others for free.

    Apple, you'll lose customers with this move. It's a sad loss of some of the free iTools - one of the benefits (formerly, presuming this is all true) of being a Mac user.

    • free lunch? Re:Sad Loss (Score:3, Insightful)

      by fw3 ( 523647 )
      I'm hardly about to start paying $50 or $100 a year for an email address when I can get from Microsoft or others for free.

      Iff you're willing to have your email, web pages etc plastered with advertising, then by all means go get it free. I don't use macs so mac.com would not be the first thing I'd go to but as near as I can tell they're offering a decent service. Many moons ago I used the e-world service that was basically a mac-centric clone of AOL (same software, for all I know same network and services). IMX Apple did manage to provide a better (larger) signal:noise environment.

      The boom year+1/2 of internet-hype surely led a lot of folks to expect they could get services free on the net, and the fact that most of the businesses offering these services were underwriting operations with checks written by investors (i.e. diluting shareholder's equity) meant that *all* services had to be offered for free in order to get customers.

      The flip side of this existential coin of course was that the users data was being collected, on the theory that fine-grained tracking/profiling would create lucrative new abilities to target customers.

      I for one quickly tire of emails from yahoo et-al subscribers plastered with spam trailers. Mac.com addresses don't have these, so if they're now having to charge for it, then those users will get to make a choice between a relatively higher quality service and annoying people like me who absolutely abhor commercial adds in private emails.

      In motorcycling we say 'if you have a $50 head, by all means use a $50 helmet'. If your web pages / content / email doesn't look worse for a commercial trailer over which you have no editorial control then a free+advertising service is the the thing you want.

  • I am an Apple "Helper" (Score:5, Funny)

    by DebianDog ( 472284 ) <dan@d[ ]lagle.com ['ans' in gap]> on Wednesday July 17, 2002 @06:44AM (#3900438) Homepage
    As an Apple appointed "Helper", on the Apple forum, I can tell you people are going to be SCREAMING about this one. I have no real use for it since I have my own e-mail and web services but to the millions (yes really) that do, Oohwee. They threw a fit when the had to pay $20 for an OSX upgrade. Wait till they read about the $49 "special".

    You cannot give people stuff then snatch it away, then say PAY. Wait, maybe you CAN, it worked for Netscape. No wait...

    • Re:I am an Apple "Helper" (Score:2, Insightful)

      by Leimy ( 6717 )
      Throwing a fit about a 20 dollar OS upgrade? Were they insane? It sure beats a 199 dollar upgrade to windows XP Pro :).

      Dave
      • Throwing a fit about a 20 dollar OS upgrade? Were they insane? It sure beats a 199 dollar upgrade to windows XP Pro

        He's referring to what Windows users would call a "Service Pack", not a major revision of the OS (Say from MacOS 9.x to OSX or NT4 to Windows 2000).
      • Throwing a fit about a 20 dollar OS upgrade? Were they insane? It sure beats a 199 dollar upgrade to windows XP Pro :).

        It wasn't the cost which was the problem, but the principle of the situation. When MacOS X first came out it was slow, buggy and in certain cases unusable. When Apple announced the $20 upgrade price people screamed, because they felt that it was insane to pay for a fix to something they perceived as being broken in the first place.

        What ended up happening is that you only paied the $20 if you got the upgrade by mail. I got mine through my local Apple store for free. Some places were even providing copied versions of the upgrade, for a small copying fee, since they didn't have enough upgrade packages in stock.
    • If I remember correctly, Apple customers were not "required" to pay $20 for the OSX upgrade... you only had to pay if you wanted the upgrade on CDROM. I've always updated my copy of OSX through the Software Update application for free. It's nice on broadband but a little painful on a dialup connection- but it worked and was free.
      Additionallly, one of the other stereotypical characteristics of Mac users is that they are huge
       whiners and severely prone to knee-jerk reactions. So many of "us" simply forget that Apple is a corporation out to make money just like thousands of other corporations around the world. It's also a sad fact that so many people think that everything should be free. If the dot com crash taught us anything, it was that it's nearly impossible to build a business where you give away your services or products for free.
      I don't have aproblem paying for iTools services if it helps to keep Apple in business.... just like I don't have a problem paying premium prices for Apple hardware. The quality and experience is worth the extra expense.
      • The OS X 10.1 was NOT available over the Software Update service. My iBook shipped with 10.0.3, and believe me, it needed 10.1 to work. One could either a) during October of last year pack their bags and head to the big city to collect a complimentary CD at a participating Apple Store or Authorised Apple dealer or b) send in one of their upgrade coupons and some cash and have it mailed to them. I live in bumfuck Mississippi, so I got to send in one of my rather scarce upgrade coupons and $20 because it was cheaper than taking a couple days off from work, taking the bus to Jackson, trying to find one of the few cabs that exist there and convincing them to help me find an Apple dealer =)

        But no, 10.1 was /never/ available over Software Update

      • If I remember correctly, Apple customers were not "required" to pay $20 for the OSX upgrade... you only had to pay if you wanted the upgrade on CDROM. I've always updated my copy of OSX through the Software Update application for free. It's nice on broadband but a little painful on a dialup connection- but it worked and was free.

        10.0 to 10.1 was never available through Software Update. You had to get the CD, and Apple botched this badly.

        Witness me, the lone Apple guy in a horde of Windows folks. I wanted to update the copy of OSX on my TiBook. Simple, right?

        Well, no. I could do it through Apple, if I was willing to spend $20, send them proof I owned OSX and then wait *8* weeks. WTF? I've already registered my copy!

        So I go to an Apple training center. Surely they'll have them? Well, a week after 10.1 was released, they didn't. Apple had sent them 10.1 install CDs, but not the upgrade and they were told they weren't going to get the upgrade ones. How about the 2 Circuit Citys I visited? They were supposed to have stacks of upgrade CDs. Nope: the salesdroids had never even heard of them, much less realized they were supposed to have them.

        What did I finally do? I wrote to a guy I knew on the Internet who was nice enough to burn me a CD and mail it to me. Apple finally got around to sending us upgrade CDs a month later.

  • are you loyal? (Score:3, Informative)

    by Em Emalb ( 452530 ) <ememalb&gmail,com> on Wednesday July 17, 2002 @06:46AM (#3900445) Homepage Journal
    "The fee is US$99.95 per year, and as a thank you for being loyal customers, existing iTools members can reserve a first year special offer of $49.95."

    That's kinda cool. If you have been with them for a while, it's not as expensive for the 1st year, but then you have to worry about the next year.
    Ah well, by then this will probably have morphed into something else anyway.

  • Uhhh... (Score:5, Interesting)

    by RAruler ( 11862 ) on Wednesday July 17, 2002 @06:46AM (#3900447) Homepage
    One of the major reasons i'm a 'mac zealot' is in part due to the coolness of getting thinks like free iDisk storage and e-mail access. I don't use anything close to the 20mb limit, I think I have like maybe ~100k of stuff on there, but it's nice to have a place to store stuff i'd like to keep for later.. ditto for my mac.com email, i've got maybe ~300k of the 5mb limit. Sure, these features are nice, but they are sure as hell not worth 100USD to me, and I doubt i'm the only one who feels this way.

    I bought a five thousand dollar powerbook, partly because of Apple's good relationship with their customers, but now they're stamping out the so-called 'grassroots' sites, charging their users for iDisk and e-mail use, what used to be nice perks is turning bitter. The thing I don't understand is why they think these services are worth 100USD, i'd pay 20 to keep my nifty e-mail address around, but i'm not paying 80 just so that my 100k/10mb of idisk usages turns to 100k/100mb.. that's asinine.

    • Re:Uhhh... (Score:3, Interesting)

      by sql*kitten ( 1359 )
      One of the major reasons i'm a 'mac zealot' is in part due to the coolness of getting thinks like free iDisk storage and e-mail access

      The problem is that this is commoditized; anyone with any Internet-capable OS can get this from Hotmail/MSN, Yahoo, Netscape/AOL, etc. The only differentiator with iTools is the "coolness" factor, not the functionality. As soon as the novelty wears off, functionality is what matters to most users. Maybe the nice integration with the user interface is enough of a differentiator, but I don't think it will be, especially if MSN provide a friendly desktop tool for Macs.
    • When put in the way the previous poster put it, you would hope that Apple provides vouchers for one year subscriptions, when you buy a new Mac and provide 5Mb free e-mail accounts to all Mac users.
    • is why the priced it as an "all or nothing" plan. Why not make the individual services available at a lower price as well, say $20/year for just email, or $30/year for email and iDisk?

  • It's called a free market (Score:4, Insightful)

    by Hater's Leaving, The ( 322238 ) on Wednesday July 17, 2002 @06:47AM (#3900453)
    You want it, they offer it, you gotta pay what they ask, or tell 'em to stick it.

    I won't jump to any particular conclusions until I see stats about what proportion subscribe at this price.

    However, if it's many subscribing, then that would reinforce the stereotype of Mac users having more dollars than sense, and if few subscribe then it would indicate that Apple don't really understand the market. Neither would be particularly big news - no offense to either side - as these are opinions that large numbers of people already have. Note however, that the flip-sides should _cancel_ the prejudice that's unfounded, but as we know it's almost impossible to get people to drop prejudices.

    THL.
    • You want it, they offer it, you gotta pay what they ask, or tell 'em to stick it.

      Yes, and that's just what people are doing: either paying or telling Apple "to stick it". Or did you see anybody proposing a third course of action?

    • Re:It's called a free market (Score:4, Insightful)

      by actiondan ( 445169 ) on Wednesday July 17, 2002 @07:12AM (#3900565)

      You want it, they offer it, you gotta pay what they ask, or tell 'em to stick it.

      I think the problem that a lot of people have with this move is that they signed up for mac.com email addresses on the basis that they would be free for life and then, just as they started to rely on those addresses, Apple announced that they will have to start paying.

      I'm not sure of exactly what the original deal was with mac.com email addresses but some people certainly seem to think there is a bait and switch going on here.

      Offering a service for a fee is fine. Promising a service for free and then announcing a fee at a later date is somewhat underhand.
      • Offering a service for a fee is fine. Promising a service for free and then announcing a fee at a later date is somewhat underhand[ed].
        Agreed; and my recollection is similar to yours, that mac.com email accounts were supposed to always be free and around forever, assuming Apple didn't go under. I'm sure there's something in the EULA or TOS that says "we can change this at any time and therefore this document is hopeless to you so don't count on anything" so their butt is covered legally, but it still stinks.

        One of the selling points people make in the "switch" ads is that Apple computers work simply, out of the box, with no trouble. Having to switch away from my mac.com email address to something else is not simple. It's a pain, and I didn't buy a Mac so that I'd have to deal with this kind of nuisance.

  • Bad way to get converts... (Score:4, Interesting)

    by cehardin ( 163989 ) on Wednesday July 17, 2002 @06:50AM (#3900464)
    This is really bad news, Apple is trying to get existing win users to switch to Macs. But this is counte-productive. This is what's going to happen at the local computer store:

    1. Customer walks in store and asks the salesman about these great Macs they've heard about on TV so much.
    2. Customer is told about why a Mac is so much better, and that iTools is really cool.
    3. Customer is convinced, buys a new iMac, takes it home and turns it on.
    4. Customer is persuaded via the Macs initial setup to use iTools. (.Mac, whatever)
    5. Customer discovers that in addition to their computer costing much more than a Win Box, they're expected to pay an extra $100 a year just to use one of the Macs best features (iTools).
    6. Customer returns iMac to store, gets a Compaq or something.
    7. Retailers get pissed and stop selling Macs.
    8. Apple loses

    What a shame
    • 6. Customer returns iMac to store, gets a Compaq or something.

      Compaq always seems to follow Apple - after the iMac came the iPaq... after .Mac can we expect a similar portal called .Paq?

  • Nitpicking the FAQ (Score:2, Insightful)

    by MarkLewis ( 593646 )
    They list the required browsers at the bottom of the FAQ as Netscape Navigator 4.7x and up on the Mac or Netscape Navigator 5.x on Windows. I'd be curious to know exactly how many users of Netscape Navigator 5.x there actually are in the world, since they never released one.
  • I think this is a really bad move. Mac home users will be forced to pay $100/year or be forced to both change their e-mail addresses and figure out how to reconfigure their systems to use one of the other accounts they get from their ISP. People will feel let down and betrayed by Apple--iTools was part of the package and played a role in the decision of many home users to buy a Mac. The Mac will be less usable because things like mail and web publishing don't just work out of the box anymore. And Apple loses a lot of good will and advertising from people using addresses at "mac.com".

    I think what Apple loses from this is far more valuable than the money they are going to be making. I hope they'll reverse this decision.

  • I actually like the idea - especially the anti virus - but currently iTools redirects to

    http://itools.mac./unavailable/

    Which is a bit of a shame.

    • Re:Whoops (Score:3, Insightful)

      by jweatherley ( 457715 )
      especially the anti virus

      It's a mac - anti virus isn't worth having. I've had a mac for years and have never had any viruses. The rest of the 'idea' is what they were providing for free anyway. The only thing I really want is the mac.com email address but that isn't worth $100 a year. I have some pics up on my free mac homepage but they can be moved to my ISP's if Apple start charging - hell I can host them from home they're only meant for friends and family so DSL provides enough bandwidth.

      If this is the big announcement at MWNY then it's going to take one hell of a reality distotion field to swing this one past the faithful.
      • > It's a mac - anti virus isn't worth having. I've had a mac for years and have never had any viruses.

        Wow, I've been alive for 23 years and never had cancer. I guess nobody else has either.

        Your no anti-virus argument is stupid and dumb. Waiting until you've gotten a virus to purchase anti-virus software is closing the barn door after the horses have gotten out.

  • Wish it were the big joke (Score:3, Interesting)

    by headless_ringmaster ( 248904 ) on Wednesday July 17, 2002 @06:53AM (#3900480)
    I'm criticized for being on the hopeful side sometimes, and this would otherwise be the same case, but I've grown wiser and hold Apple to lower expectation.

    BUT - what if this was a joke? They've had plenty experience being embarrased by Steve's big announcement being leaked, etc. What if they leaked this? And Steve goes on with the show like this is what they're doing, and the punchline is "Wait a minute, we're not Microsoft!" ....silly, yes, but for the last couple of years, some mac zealots have pondered what would happen this MacWorld - 5 years after the infamous SOS deal with M$ - the contract for being friendly lasts 5 years!

    Did it occur to anyone that .Mac is /too/ .Net like? Since when does Apple want to play the tail of the lion?

    Yes, of course - wishful thinking - that Apple would turn on M$ - but if it happens, I said it.

    • I'm thinking it's a joke as well. Apple is planning something with iTools, as the rest of the iTools site is down, but this somehow smells fishy.

      I even took a peek at the source HTML, but I coudn't find any clues there one way or the other. I can't help but think, though, that this is a deliberate gag. Apple is normally too careful as to let something like this go online ahead of schedule.

      If it isn't a red herring, then some webmonkey is going to be in for a world of hurt. I guess we'll know more after the speech in a couple of hours...
    • Did it occur to anyone that .Mac is /too/ .Net like?

      Too .Net like? There's a big difference - Apple has actually explained what the hell .Mac is. :)


  • This could well be one of the reasons that Microsoft is currently getting mad at Apple.

    The online calendar and other tools of course are direct competitors with Outlook, and the whole package is a competitor with MSN and hotmail.

    It actually looks really neat to me. I think however it might be a strategic mistake force people to make the move. They should provide a minimal service for free. If the additions are good enough (and they seem to be to me) then people will pay. But people hate to have their arms twisted. But apart from that mistake, this looks like an innovative move from Apple.

  • Mirror up... i couldn't grab the css/js files (Score:3, Informative)

    by trueimage ( 257163 ) on Wednesday July 17, 2002 @06:57AM (#3900496)
    here. [mounta.com]

  • Mastercard Commercial (Score:4, Funny)

    by tbmaddux ( 145207 ) on Wednesday July 17, 2002 @06:58AM (#3900500) Homepage Journal
    • Anti-virus: $50
    • Backup: $40
    • 100MB of online storage: $60
    • 15MB of email storage, forwarding and POP/IMAP access: $40+
    • Home page creation and hosting: $60
    • Screwing over your loyal customers who used their mac.com email address to register for /.: Priceless

  • Money, Money, Money (Score:4, Interesting)

    by anothernobody ( 204957 ) on Wednesday July 17, 2002 @07:00AM (#3900509) Homepage
    Perhaps this article [nytimes.com] could offer some insight. They need the money.
  • I doubt they'l just be completely cutting off @mac.com addresses - you've only got a few hours to wait for the real news instead of guessing.

  • Antivirus + Backup software too (Score:4, Informative)

    by Leimy ( 6717 ) on Wednesday July 17, 2002 @07:07AM (#3900536)
    This seemed horrible at first... till I actually read the link. Seems like a decent service for 100 bucks a year. Especially if the support is any good.

    100MB of iDisk space, more email space, 15MB email space, backup and antivirus software [probably worth the 100 bucks right there if they are any good], and hopefully good customer support [my ISP sometimes sucks a lot when it comes to storage space and email].

    I will have to think it over for the 60 grace period before I make the jump.

    Dave

  • Bad Apple! (Score:3, Insightful)

    by ZigMonty ( 524212 ) <slashdot AT zigm ... ostinbox DOT com> on Wednesday July 17, 2002 @07:09AM (#3900543)
    The thing that shits me the most is this:

    Bought individually, comparable products would cost you an estimated $250:

    Anti-virus: $50
    Backup: $40
    100MB of online storage: $60
    15MB of email storage, forwarding and POP/IMAP access: $40+
    Home page creation and hosting: $60

    The only thing I want is the email, and I don't think I'm alone. I'm on dialup. Backing up to a web service is ludicrous and the iDisk is painfully slow. I've never used their shitty web hosting service and I certainly don't need Anti-virus software. Sell me the email, leave it with a 5MB cap (I am capable of storing my email locally) and I might pay $20-30 dollars for it. Might!

    $100 is a joke. I'm an Australian and they better not be considering charging me nearly A$200 a year for 15MB of email space.

  • I'm sure it will be as big a success as eWorld. (Score:5, Informative)

    by dpbsmith ( 263124 ) on Wednesday July 17, 2002 @07:14AM (#3900574) Homepage
    Remember eWorld? Apple's high-profile electronic community of, uh, was it the mid-nineties? IIRC GEISCO originally developed the software, which gradually morphed into AppleLink, AOL, and eWorld.

    eWorld... the world's first electronic ghost town.
  • email adresses, antivirus, bit of webpage. Guaranteed to work with your mac computer. No hassle or technical knowledge required. For just 100 bucks. If I had a Mac I'd sign up today

  • ...If the terms and quality of service are agreeable, and the price isn't outrageous.

    But saying $100/year is going to put people off. If Apple had come out and said "$10/month for everything", they could probably have gotten over more customers' price resistance... and the ironic thing is that $10/month is $120/year.

    Come on, $100/year is $1/day. You can afford to pay Pepsi that much for your daily caffeine allotment. Surely the .Mac services will be worth more to you than brown fizzy sugar water.

    • I kind of like this adaptation of that metaphor:

      "Give a man a fire and he's warm for a day, but set fire to him and he's warm for the rest of his life."

      -- (Terry Pratchett, Jingo)
    • There are 100 days in a year? No? Ah, there are 365 days in a year. So $100/year works out to be about $.27/day or $ 1.92/week or $8.33/month.

      For people who are only interested in one piece of iTools, it's not worth it. If they're done well I think the antivirus and backup parts are the best value. An antivirus subscription alone costs $20/year.

      A lot of /.ers bitch about ads, well here's a web host and email provider which is ad free. The email is accessible by POP, IMAP or their pretty decend webmail interface. The IMAP in particular is cool.

      It's important that .Mac be run better than iTools if it's going to be successful. The performance of iDisk must be better (the last client upgrade definitely helped though), the mac.com spam blocking must be removed or made configurable, and the bandwidth/usage caps on homepage.mac.com web sites has to be removed or replaced with a much higher (and more sensible) limit.

      For those who are saying this or that can be had for free elsewhere, I will remind you that unlike OSS, when it comes to online services you get what you pay for.
  • Seriously though, if you don't wanna pay for .mac just use other stuff like Yahoo mail, or whatever.

    What's the big deal? $100/year isn't that much.

  • M-A-R-K-E-T S-H-A-R-E (Score:2, Interesting)

    by NineNine ( 235196 )
    c'mon Apple. Say it with me. Market share is what's *necessary* to survive in the PC market. They need the economies of scale to keep their products reasonable affordable. This is *not* how you gain market share. Of course, if Apple is just going for the very high end consumer and graphics market, great. But I thought that they were going for the general market with their newer, cheaper Imacs. Oh well, typical Apple shit.
  • Observation 1. If you look at who Steve Mason is, you'll find that he does a decent amount of design and graphics work.

    Observation 2. The site was posted on http://mac.com/1 ... which is an awfully suspect link in the first place.

    Observation 3. The screenshot he has of the page shows the tab for the ".mac" stuff being in a "metal" look and feel. From a design point of view, it's completely inconsistent with the remainder of Apple's site. Given that Apple is very much a Design-centric shop, there's no way they would have that tab completely different than the others.

    Observation 4. Apple has cracked down on people that run sites that leak news that's to come. I believe that that sort of rather stringent behavior would piss off people who thrive on that sort of early news.

    Observation 5. Steve Mason seems to run such a site.

    Conclusion: The page was doctored up by Mr. Mason, being somewhat bitter by the fact he's been barred from the proceedings that're going to happen today, and what better forum to get a whole bunch of people worked up than to post this to slashdot. I will EAT MY SHORTS if this turns out to be true, and not a hoax.

    -k

  • So.... (Score:2, Interesting)

    by Junta ( 36770 )
    Someone signed up for an account with the name 1 and posted a hoax story? Big deal. Surprising that 1 was still available, but it obviously is what happened. I mean come on, the page did not look professional nor apple-like, and why would it have the /1/ subdir in there huh, or did no one notice it is in a place where a common account could post?
    • It seems some people like to leap (to conclusions) before they look (at the URL).

    • Re:So.... (Score:2, Insightful)

      by g()()ber ( 593052 )
      Slashdot is a quick latest news and rumors site, and discussion. Its a pretty good one. It isn't a news source. It isn't journalism. It isn't fact. Take everything (including comments) with a grain of salt.

      If the editors took the time to verify all 'news', it would come up days later. Half the stuff we see would never even get reviewed. And the editors aren't good journalists. They're not even good edtiOrss. They are good at getting stuff up quick, which I believe was their goal.

      Yeah yeah mod me as a troll. I like the current format though. I think if they tried to make it more journalism, it would suck.

      Like momma told you a million times, don't believe everything you hear.
      • Well, Steve Jobs just said basically the same thing as was reported here, but I didn't quite catch the whole thing. How it sounded to me was that .mac will not be forcing people to give up their mac.com stuff, but only an optional switch if you want all the extra features. Did I understand that correctly?
    • I wish I could believe that, but most iTools webpages are in the form

      http://homepage.mac.com/~username

      Trying out http://homepage.mac.com/~1/ doesn't go anywhere, and WebObjects reports that the user account doesn't exist.

      I agree, it doesn't seem very characteristic of Apple to do something like this, and the URL looks strange. If they were to make an announcement like this, I'd think it'd be somewhere else.

      I guess we'll know the truth 18 hours from now. If Apple doesn't announce anything today by midnight PST, then we'll know it was fake.
      • He keeps mentioning how everything he's telling us about right now works with your mac.COM e-mail and webpage, etc. You would think if they wanted to reveal a mac.net thing it would be done first and then show how everything else will tie into it. Not just lopped onto the end of the show and then everything you already heard changes.
    • Guess what... it's true. I've been watching the Keynote... and he has already done the .mac bit... it's real

    • The username of 1 is no doubt reserved. Going to the directory of that URL [mac.com] will forward you to this page [mac.com] which gives you the real deal. Why Slashdot didn't use that link, I'm not sure.

      The trial version of .Mac lasts 60 days, after which you will have to spend the $99.95 per year.

      ian.

  • Were Apple smarter (they usually are, so someone here was tone-deaf on this issue), they'd have preserved a basic iTools account as a freebie and then turned .Mac into the premium alternative.

    It would have made sense like this, for instance:

    iTools (free):
    -mac.com e-mail address with 5mb storage (or no storage and free redirection to your real address)
    -iDisk space with 10-20mb storage
    -Bandwidth limitation on the iDisk webspace (they already do this)

    .Mac ($100/year):
    -mac.com address with 25mb storage and user-configurable spam filtering.
    -Webmail access and IMAP access
    -100MB iDisk, with no bandwidth limitations (provided their AUP is met)
    -Streaming support
    -Usenet access through a web interface (they could always license DRN from Newsguy or something like that)

    It's not that the $100/year is a lot of money (it's $8.33 per month), but not having a free entry-level version and forcing all the existing members onto the new plan with 2 months' notice is doing the Wrong Thing. A lot of Mac.com users are only using it in a minimal fashion - the ones who depend on the e-mail address may stay but a lot of them will be bitter about it. Apple does not need bitter users.

    I have a Mac.com address now (I signed up at the beginning), and I really don't know yet if I'll keep it or not. I'll have to think real hard about it.

  • No sympathy for the dissenters (Score:5, Insightful)

    by Marasmus ( 63844 ) on Wednesday July 17, 2002 @08:10AM (#3900858) Homepage Journal
    I really can't find any place in my heart to take sides with the people yelling about having to pay for this service. I run a fairly well-sized free hosting service that offers some similar functionality, and I know personally how much work, time, and money out of my pocket goes into running this sort of system. I know that as my userbase grows above its measely 1500-user count it's at now, there's no way I'll be able to afford to continue the services I'm offering completely for free. Apple is in the same boat - They're obviously paying a number of people to run the iTools service, paying for hardware and bandwidth, and raking up a huge bill. Sure, the iTools system can be a great community-builder, but it can still be a great community-builder when their users are paying only about $8 a month for the services being offered.

    To those of you who bitch about services being generously provided for free, get a clue. Better yet, how bout you try to set up a service of similar caliber and see how much it costs you to run 'for free'? You'd probably gain a little bit of respect for the amount of work that Apple has put into their system, for you.
  • I guess it's time Debian setup GNU apps/toolchain for OS X... if they haven't already.

    I do run Debian on a GNU/Linux...
    and on a BSD it's true!
    I do run Debian on a Win32...
    and on PS2!

    But can you can you run it on OS X too?
  • Here's the story of my friend and here quest for a free Web mail account. My friend had a Webmail account at Amexmail, when one day she got a message. Basically, it amounted to "if you want to continue to use your Amexmail account, you must pay a fee." Well, I decided to help my friend out, "Animenation has free Webmail, why don't I set you an account up there."

    Well, predictably, Animenation sent the message "if you want to continue to use your Animenation Email account, you must pay a fee."

    Here's the funny thing. I used to work at a .com that provided Web based Email, so this makes a lot of sense to me. Why give something away if it is costing you money to do so? It was one part of our business plan that never made sense to me. We didn't even have any method for people to make donations.

    Part of the problem is that non-technical people don't realize that these things cost money, because they had been free up until now. It reminds me of the one character in The Cat Who Walks Through Walls who resented having to pay for air on the Moon. Outrageous that he had to pay for something that he had come to think of as free.

    Now, the Apple thing is a special case for two reasons. It is expensive, $100.00 is a big jump from free, and Mac owners probably thought of it as part of the bundled software they got with their Mac. (Honestly, I never used it so I didn't care, I'm on dialup, and even post meltdown I still have lots of free accounts. I pay for Web space at Tripod even though I hardly use it. I get my real Email from AT&T and use Hotmail as my spam-trap. So, while I remember signing up for iTools I haven't looked at it since then.)

    The reality is that many free Web based services that I used to use that were really cool, like zKey or Workspot have either started charging or gone to .com Heaven. (Or, sometimes, first the former and then the latter.) It is irritating when you suddenly find you can't get to your Email or to files you stored on a remote drive. However, that's the price you pay when stuff is free. (Bad customer relations is what companies like Apple pay when they don't have a sensible way to ease people from a free service into a pay service. Let's face it, though, there are plenty of people who would always complain about being charged for "free" services, no matter how reasonable the request.

    Company: "But if we don't charge you, we'll go out of business, and then you'll definitely have no way to reach your Email/Files/etc."

    Some Users:"Tough, I was only using your site for trivial stuff anyway, so I'll never pay for it, however, I'll complain to high heaven if you want to charge me. Grr..."

  • In related news, Apple reports a slide in third quarter earnings [yahoo.com] according to this Yahoo release. A connection perhapse? I'd have submitted this as an actual /. story if I thought it had a snowballs chance in hell of seing the light of day, but I'm 10 for 10 on rejections; Why break the streak now, right?
  • Microsoft is adding value to its MSN portal...

    http://www.msnbc.com/news/781614.asp

  • Jobs confirms .mac on 9/30 at Keynote (Score:5, Informative)

    by lunenburg ( 37393 ) on Wednesday July 17, 2002 @09:01AM (#3901194) Homepage
    Jobs talks about the death of free internet services (email/storage/etc), and confirms that iTools will go away as of September 30. So it looks like the FAQ posted is correct.

    $99 a year.
  • I'm watching the keynote speech, Steve just announced .mac >:(

  • Internet != free (Score:2, Insightful)

    by d3xt3r ( 527989 )
    I think one of the reasons why so many internet companies are now .bombs is because of the illusion that the internet has given us that every service on the net should be free.

    After reading most of the posts here, this is even more obvious. Companies thought they could provide free services to draw volume to their sites and show you annoying adds to pay for it. Well, it clearly did not work. Unless you have a real product, that offers some real benefit, you're out of business today.

    This is a real product. It my not be tangible, but it's there to make you're life easier. And even though you can't touch it, it cost money to run it, and to store your email, files, web serving, etc on it. It just doesn't come for free.

    I think $99 is a bit expensive, but I will consider paying for this. I used to use Yahoo but they squeeze you as well. $19 here for storage, $30 there for POP, no web hosting, etc.

  • I'm signing up this Friday.... (Score:5, Insightful)

    by BMonger ( 68213 ) on Wednesday July 17, 2002 @09:58AM (#3901588)
    For real. I'm gonna send them their $50 for this year and if all goes well I'll send them $100 next year. Does it stink? Maybe...

    I've had a hotmail account for who knows how long... well before Microsoft bought them... then I got a hushmail account to use for people to e-mail since my hotmail was getting bogged down with junk mail. But then I signed up for a domain using my hushmail account. Boom. No more junkmail free hushmail. Then to top it off hushmail started charging. So I quit that service because half the time I couldn't get their java applet to load.

    So I'm back to my hotmail account. The address is above if you want to spam it :). I got my iMac back in February/March time frame. I'm now using my @mac.com e-mail address frequently. I really dig the imap part of the service. I can most likely get imap from some other place I suppose. But it's pretty nice to be able to bring up my account via Mail and have all changes made in mail affect my web-based account.

    They block some spam and some people have problems with that. But for me in particular I don't think it'll matter much. I get e-mail from people that I read. Not from computers. Some people need to get domain registration e-mails (macslash) and such but I don't.

    So I give them $100 a year in the long run. That's like... $8.33 a month (rounded down for you math people). I make enough money that I can afford it... I'm not filthy rich like some articles might lead you to think but it's not a huge deal.

    I'd seriously pay $100 a month for my e-mail account. Then on top of that I get my 100 MB of iDisk space, and my homepage.

    Yeah.. I could buy a whole domain for a year from some place like readyhosting.com for $100 and I'd get more stuff. But do I really *need* more stuff? I don't have time to develop a 500 MB webpage nor need to. I don't *need* unlimited e-mail accounts. Yeah I'll get more stuff for my $100 but I certainly don't need it nor will I ever use it.

    The bonus here for me is that for my $100 I get a virus scanner and support through their discussion boards. Now there is the argument that OS X is virus proof or near virus proof. Maybe it is. I don't know. But it costs $30 a year for a subscription to mcaffee to let you download new dat files. The discussion boards are helpful to me because this is my first Mac. I still have the occasional problem doing something. But moreso than asking a question on how-to do something I will probably read questions on how to do/fix something that I never even thought of.

    At least they're doing it now. Imagine if people that owned mac's got these free acounts. Then 5 years down the road once everybody was using them like non-other they start charging. What would happen if hotmail started charging now?

    I dunno... it's not going to be worth it to everybody. Even I realize that I could get more for my money by buying a domain. But I don't want to deal with owning a domain. I just want a simple little e-mail account and then I get the bonus of having some nice storage space (as long as you're not storing "illegal" files 100 MB is usually more than plenty), a virus scanner that may never even catch anything, and some extra support for me, a newer user.

    I've blocked all the domains I'm allowed to block with my hotmail. It's time for me to change over to my new e-mail account.

    I totally dig it and if you need to e-mail me, send it to my hotmail account... :)

  • Simple Economics (Score:5, Insightful)

    by mactari ( 220786 ) <rufwork.gmail@com> on Wednesday July 17, 2002 @10:33AM (#3901897) Homepage
    I'm using iTools for about 2 megs of web pages and data. I also have it forward me any @mac.com email to my personal email address. The email stays on Apple's server about as long as it takes me to get gibbed when I play Team Fortress (Quake 1, of course). It's costing Apple next to nothing to keep a folder named "mactari" on their server. I'm not going to get $100 worth of service, and Apple wouldn't spend half that maintaining me if I stayed.

    What's more, Apple doesn't care if I go.

    The bottom line of it is that if 90% of the iTools users leave, 10% will start plunking down money. As Maelstrom says when your bonus gets to nothing, "Twice nuttin, still nuttin" -- 100% of iTools users paying nothing is less revenue than *any amount* of the users forking over $50 [then $100].

    I'm leaving iTools (and that's a pain in tha arse - - I'd just gotten my site linked too fairly well), and Apple doesn't care. Like Sun's CEO said about .NET [giving away free development tools and sdk's], "The first hit of heroin's always free."

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