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Roxio Clarifies Mac Toast EULA 20

Posted by pudge from the well-now-i-feel-a-lot-better dept.
Durindana writes "MacInTouch is quoting a Roxio representative saying the new EULA doesn't mean Toast for Mac includes DRM, only that it's the same one used for Easy CD Creator, which does."
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Roxio Clarifies Mac Toast EULA More

Roxio Clarifies Mac Toast EULA

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  • EULA (Score:3, Insightful)

    by Brian_at_Work ( 590160 ) <brian_schwertfeger.dell@com> on Monday July 15, 2002 @04:52PM (#3889404)
    So there pretty much saying, were not taking away on of your rights, but we reserve the right to do so later? Is that accurate or am I missing something

    • Re:EULA (Score:1, Informative)

      by Anonymous Coward
      No, nothing like that.

      What they are saying is this: Easy CD Creator uses stuff related to Windows Media, which contains DRM, so they have to mention that.

      Toast (and Jam) obviously don't, since they are on the Mac, but still contain the wording. Rather then spend all the extra money to draft two seperate EULA's, they've merely drafted one and used it on both, not an uncommon practice in the software industry.

      Or, straight from the horse's mouth: Toast and Jam use the same EULA that Roxio's PC burning product, Easy CD Creator, uses. Easy CD Creator leverages aspects of Windows Media Technology, which does include DRM components. Hence, the language in the EULA. Companies frequently share EULAs across products since it saves time and money with respect to legal, documentation and translation into multiple languages.
    • This looks like just another example of an all too common (effect/tactic/occurrence). 1) Change the (wording/law/rules) but state clearly that you haven't, don't, won't. 2) Wait, then later, because everything is already in place, just *pop* in the thing that people were opposed to with nary a whisper of notice until it is too late. Examples of this are not just restricted to technological developments, either. In Canada, WalMart isn't allowed to have grocery stores (even though they want to). So when WalMart builds new stores en masse, with just about enough empty space for a grocery store, they simply state that no, they have no plans to, don't worry, go home. But what exactly are they going to do with this space, anyway? The tactic seems worse this time (IMO) because this is the first big Mac software to play this game. And in a world of outlook and word viruses, (windows) sputnik spyware, and looming DRM, us Mac users have always had a safe little haven from it all. Rest no more.
  • I have since emailed Roxio and let them know I will no longer be a customer!

    Seems the only way these types will listen is if you hit them in the pocketbook.

  • Hmmm... (Score:5, Insightful)

    by usr122122121 ( 563560 ) <usr122122121.braxtech@com> on Monday July 15, 2002 @06:05PM (#3890068) Homepage
    The formal explanation doesn't change the fact that the clause still exists in the EULA.

    Nothing has changed other than the explanation. So, you're still agreeing to that clause whether or not it was intended for Toast.

    all of a sudden i'm 2 cents poorer...

  • MEMO: TURN DOWN HEAT; FROG STARTED TO NOTICE (Score:5, Funny)

    by sg3000 ( 87992 ) <sg_public@ma c . c om> on Monday July 15, 2002 @06:31PM (#3890227)
    TO: ROXIO TOAST PRODUCT MANAGER

    Management certainly appreciates your efforts to satisfy our recording industry friends, but care must be taken to ensure that the frog does not notice the boiling water. Apparently some frogs have read the EULA and noticed our intention to add digital rights management code to the next version of Toast (Version 6.0, TOAST eXtreme Pro!(TM); $99 for new users or $99 for upgrading users). We are concerned letting the frogs know too early will drive users to purchase CD burning software from other vendors. It is imperative to take away the rights of our users *slowly* so they don't notice.

    Please send some misinformation to the frogs to get them off track. Use your best judgment, but I recommend that you say something like, "Toast doesn't have DRM in it" or "It's a boilerplate EULA; pay no attention to it" -- well, those aren't very believeable; try to come up with something more realistic. And when you write your message, try not to use the word "suckas".

    Regards,

    ROXIO MANAGEMENT
  • The door has been opened and once opened can't be closed. By using said software you are agreeing to the ELUA, so they are free to enforce or add DRM elements when ever they wish. One wonders why DRM is in PC products and not Mac products, Roxio must be responding to the desires of the music/video industry when on the PC but ignoring on the Mac, if they decided to so so once the chances of it happening again are pretty much assured.
  • Ah... I can so clearly hear the whir of a dirty freewheel and the tick of a grimey chain as Roxio tries to do some serious backpedaling. Sure wouldn't want to be them right now... it must feel like they have an RIAA semi-truck bearing down on them and now their customers in the Slashdot mobile ahead of them just slammed on the breaks. I wonder which will hurt more?
  • And Microsoft says that Palladium will benefit end users. I'd take "explanations" from Roxio (and MS) with a huge grain of salt.

    If it's in the EULA (legalese), Roxio may not interpret it to mean the same tomorrow as it explains it to mean today. They may still be tempted to DRM your PC tomorrow, IMHO.

  • Regards,

    Toast Product Manager

    As others have noted, the "it's just bolierplate" argument won't prevent Toast Legal Counsel from saying, at some future time, well, you agreed to the EULA and we've changed our minds, too bad sucker.

    I'd give the benefit of the doubt to Toast Product Manager and assume that Toast Legal Counsel was pulling the wool over his eyes too, except....

    Toast Product Manager is such an odd name, it makes me wonder if he's hiding behind his title. I mean, if you're on the up and up, why not use your own name?

    --orthogonal

    (Oh, I forgot, the culture of "personal responsibility" has given way to the culture of "no controlling legal authority".)

  • The Roxio Apologist/Product Manager writes:

    "Toast and Jam use the same EULA that Roxio's PC burning product, Easy CD Creator, uses. Easy CD Creator leverages aspects of Windows Media Technology, which does include DRM components."

    That's supposed to be an explanation? If you're using something from another company that your users object to then it doesn't change the fact that you're still using it. Just because the DRM components come from Windows Media Technology doesn't change the fact that you still have the DRM components in your software. I don't get this. Was this supposed to satisfy anyone's curiosity or outrage about this?

    Oh well... my money's going elsewhere still until their product manager comes forth with revised plans that exclude DRM components. Period. No excuses. They'll find out the hard way.

  • Talk to them (Score:4, Interesting)

    by batobin ( 10158 ) on Tuesday July 16, 2002 @11:04AM (#3894853) Homepage
    I just sent Roxio another e-mail telling them I'm pissed. The URL to do so is here [roxio.com].

    This is the message I sent:

    Your Toast project manager has been busy! He's been telling all the Mac faithful that even though the new EULA for Toast says you can use DRM, you won't. Is this a promise? Are we supposed to take his word for it? Because honestly, when confronted between believing a legal document, or some "Toast Manager", I believe the legal document. As far as I'm concerned, as long as the Toast EULA says you can use malware, YOU'RE USING MALWARE. If you're not now, you will later, and that scares me. Once again, I am no longer your customer.

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