Quartz Extreme Demo Movie 97
Anonymous Coward writes "The Swedish web site MacNytt has a QuickTime demo of Quartz Extreme (the graphics acceleration technology in the upcoming Mac OS X "Jaguar" release). It is impressive footage, truly impressive. Now I can watch DVDs at a microscopic level!"
Non-Quicktime? (Score:1, Troll)
Re:Non-Quicktime? (Score:1)
Re:Non-Quicktime? (Score:1)
Re:Non-Quicktime? (Score:1)
it's been /.'ed (Score:1)
great, we're
-- james
Anyone? (Score:1)
/.'d already (Score:1)
Re:/.'d already (Score:3, Insightful)
Re:/.'d already (Score:2)
me want.. (Score:1)
i cant wait for X.II (10.2)
ok this lameness filter is a pain in the ass
Downloaded the movie (Score:3, Informative)
It's pretty damn impressive. I think we've seen yet another advance in GUI technology from Apple.
This has massive implications (Score:1, Troll)
but otherwise that waw a little annoying.
Are they going to "fix" Perl, that's what I want to know.
Re:This has massive implications (Score:1)
File a bug report if there is something wrong: http://bugreport.apple.com.
Re:What's wrong with Perl? (Score:1)
No. Share?
Re:What's wrong with Perl? (Score:1)
Here [develooper.com] and specifically Here [usask.ca]
Re:are screenshots a thing of the past? (Score:3, Informative)
The DVD window isn't actually black -- it's a dark shade of ugly green and the system uses something to replace that with the DVD footage. In OS9, you could set your desktop graphic to this color and play DVDs on your desktop.
To confirm that you can take screen shots of graphics that are accelerated in the graphics card, I took a screen shot of iTunes showing a psychedelic animation inside a window. The screen shot shows the openGL graphics as well as the desktop and other windows.
Re:are screenshots a thing of the past? (Score:1)
Re:are screenshots a thing of the past? (Score:1, Informative)
The lack of screenshot capability is a side-effect of the fact that the video isn't going to the screen through the normal route (but the DVD forum does prevent player companies from working around this).
Re:are screenshots a thing of the past? (Score:2)
Screenshot is a supported feature of InterVideo WinDVD (yeah, it's not Mac, but it's still a DVD player)... just press the "P" key, I think. The DVD forum didn't prevent them from adding that feature...
The technical answer (Score:1)
DVD screengrabs in OSX (Score:1)
Re:DVD screengrabs in OSX (Score:3, Informative)
Re:are screenshots a thing of the past? (Score:1)
This is the OpenGL call to copy a block of pixels from the frame buffer.
EvilAndrew
Mirrors (Score:5, Informative)
http://clem.mscd.edu/~grahamry/QuartzExtremeTes
Re:Mirrors (Score:1)
Ahh, thanks for the link: (Score:1)
Re:Ahh, thanks for the link: (Score:1)
Re:Mirrors (Score:2)
Re:Mirrors (Score:1)
Nifty, eh? It's a feature, not a bug.
Re:Mirrors (Score:1)
Re:wonderful, *IF* you've got a Radeon or GF2... (Score:1)
Pismo?! (Score:3, Insightful)
Why is it that you purchased a machine with a cripple mobile graphics card and then were surprised to discover its limitations?
Re:Pismo?! (Score:2)
DP800 means you got a Quicksilver, released in Summer/Fall 2001. If I bought a PowerBook in the same time frame, it would have been a Mercury [apple-history.com], with the exact same Rage 128 AGP 2x as Pismo.
In other words: the top-end mobile Mac available at any price only 8 months ago, which was specifically advertised as being a dream machine for video & graphics professionals [google.com], cannot use Quark Extreme. That's just plain wrong.
Re:Pismo?! (Score:2)
I own a 400MHz PowerBook with a Rage 128 M so no QE love for me.
So I dunno what you want out of this other than the impossible? QE cannot physically run on systems with less than 16mb of ram and less than Radeon quality performance. It's not Apple's fault, any more than Doom 3 will require very similar specs. Hardware acceleration requires the proper hardware!
Oh, unless you mean you want hardware acceleration using your Rage 128?
How manytimes have you heard it? 10.2 will see significant performance boosts; just don't expect to run QE.
Re:Pismo?! (Score:2)
It is certainly Apple's fault, because they aren't trying hard enough. Apple's own Java group demonstrated one year ago [macslash.com] that it's totally feasible to have hardware acceleration on Rage 128 [apple.com]. (BTW, read the MacSlash article and you'll see very familiar discussion).
While it may be true that the exact feature set of Quartz Extreme cannot be achieved on a Rage 128, it is clearly false that they couldn't provide some level of boost to older GPUs. Apple chooses not to bother, and that choice merits complaint.
Re:Pismo?! (Score:2)
And I'll see even more exceleration, but I still won't be running QE?
Re:Pismo?! (Score:2)
Totally unrelated. 10.2 will be faster because it's compiled with GCC3 [google.com]. That has nothing to do with offloading graphics tasks to the GPU.
We could just as well get the benefits of GCC3 if Apple used it to compile 10.1.5, and sent it out via Software Update.
Re:Pismo?! (Score:1)
Re:Pismo?! (Score:1)
SWGS
Re:Pismo?! (Score:1)
Thank you for playing, please try again [google.com]
Re:Pismo?! (Score:2)
Re:wonderful, *IF* you've got a Radeon or GF2... (Score:3, Insightful)
Also doing text on GL has always been a bit weird - lining up pixels and so on is kind of awkward. Unaccellerated Quartz will always be there, and always be reliable. It's not like Apple is suddenly making OS X only work on these video cards.
You're not going to expect Doom III to work on these machines as well, are you?
Re:wonderful, *IF* you've got a Radeon or GF2... (Score:3, Informative)
That's just like those damn ID Software people that keep putting out new games that make us buy new video cards!
Anyway...one clarification:
You forgot "to its fullest extent." Read the Quartz Extreme specs again, and pay special attention to the word 'recommended.' Look it up if you need to.Re:wonderful, *IF* you've got a Radeon or GF2... (Score:2, Insightful)
No, that's the translation of "Minimum Requirements" :)
Re:wonderful, *IF* you've got a Radeon or GF2... (Score:3, Informative)
Exactly! I am still upset that Apple is adding AltiVec enhancements. If iMacs and iBooks cannot benifit from it, Apple should never start adding it to the OS until every machine offered by Apple has had at least a G4 for at least a year (so as to prevent anyone from yelling "But I just bought my iBook six months ago, and it will not support it!")
/sarcasm
All indications show that Jaguar will offer a speed-up for non-QE capable machines.
Perhaps Apple could have written QE with the Rage Pro in mind. I am guessing doing that would seriously prevent the major speed-up we are going to see instead. Doing so would be ignoring the increased bandwidth offered by AGP 4x and the increased capabilities of having 32 megs of VRAM on-board.
I am glad to see Apple writing software for the future with the past in mind, but not driving development.
Re:wonderful, *IF* you've got a Radeon or GF2... (Score:2)
If you're implying Quartz Extreme will work, but perform poorly, on non-Radeon/GeForce>2 hardware you are incorrect. Older cards just use plain 'old' Quartz. It's the video RAM that the recommendation speaks of, suggesting 32MB. I know for a fact that Quartz Extreme doesn't work on lesser cards; I'm using Jaguar on my late 2001 iBook right now.
If you're not implying that, sorry, please disregard this post.
Re:wonderful, *IF* you've got a Radeon or GF2... (Score:1)
Re:wonderful, *IF* you've got a Radeon or GF2... (Score:2)
Now for the random screenshots...
Startup Disk [opinionstick.com]. The only place where the OS is refered to as "10.2", thus feeding the "10.5" rumours.
Lots of new Jaguar Stuff [opinionstick.com]. New System Preferences, About This Mac, iChat, Terminal, About QuickTime...
Aqua Blue Beachball [opinionstick.com]. The new spinning cursor.
Anyway, if you want to know anything specifically, post here...
Re:wonderful, *IF* you've got a Radeon or GF2... (Score:1)
Mostly, I want to know if the user interface feels more responsive. On my late-2001 iBook with 10.1, whenever you drag a window corner to resize it, the screen redraw lags behind the mouse by a second or so, so if you move quickly, you end up with the window corner running an inch or two behind the mouse, and eventually catching up when you stop moving the mouse. (Interestingly, if you drag quickly and stop suddenly, the corner never catches up with where the mouse is -- the corner sits where the mouse was a couple of steps ago, until you give it another mouse event by nudging the mouse or releasing the button; then it redraws in the right position.) This lag happens most in window resizing, especially in Internet Explorer or OmniWeb with complex windows. But it also happens to a lesser degree when resizing Finder windows or scrolling any window.
When the system doesn't respond immediately to mouse movements, it makes it feel sluggish, and it kind of grates on me. This lag even happens on a newish G4 PowerMac I use at school, although the response on that machine is good enough that you hardly notice it in normal use.
Is this any better in 10.2?
Re:wonderful, *IF* you've got a Radeon or GF2... (Score:3, Insightful)
It was just a nasty surprise to read about how sexy cool Quartz Extreme would be until I'm drooling, then get all of those dreams dashed to pieces by brutal, brutal reality. Such is life.
Re: (Score:2)
Re:wonderful, *IF* you've got a Radeon or GF2... (Score:1)
Zoom Feature (Score:1, Informative)
Before everyone starts their bitching... (Score:3, Interesting)
So, you can't do lots of cool little tricks. Jaguar does have plenty of other graphics optimizations. I've seen it fly on iBooks. It's simply faster. OS X has up until now been worked on for functionality, not speed. Now Apple's optimizing it, and it is crazy fast. CRAZY FAST.
Re:Before everyone starts their bitching... (Score:2)
Re:Before everyone starts their bitching... (Score:1)
I get immediate window-drawing on a 300 MHz Pentium II running Windows 98, so why don't I on my 600 MHz iBook? (especially since my iBook smokes the Windows machine on other graphics-intensive tasks, like QuickTime playback)
I know the Quartz window resize is more sophisticated and complex than the Windows window resize, but it still seems like Apple should be able to make this work. Does anyone know if it will on 10.2?
Re:I still don't get it (Score:2, Insightful)
In fact, many people with handicaps are prevented from using computers because they can't distinguish the shapes on the screen. Intensive magnification of the screen contents allows these people to use computers effectively.
The zooming is actually magnification of the screen, I think the really nifty part that they were trying to show was the real time zooming on a DVD image with no slowdown of the dvd frame rate. ( I believe they were pausing the dvd here and there, I could be wrong)
Re:I still don't get it (Score:2, Interesting)
There was also a demo shown (I can't find it now though) of the OpenGL Teapot and some other figures floating around on the screen. They were infront of a DVD and the DVD was reflecting on them. It was pretty awsome.
The transparent terminals on top of the DVD are pretty cool too, although I think the biggest improvement that QE will bring is the increased speed.
A much better QE example video. (Score:2, Interesting)
http://207.182.242.235/jaguardemo1.mov [207.182.242.235] (right click and save is probably wise).
I made that a few days ago (posted the link on macrumors), to see if that QE video was for real. It was, but there are some issues with sound. My footage has sound, so you can hear when it cuts out. QE is not as wonderful as the original video made it seem, but it isn't bad either. There's also a comparision at the end trying to do the same things under 10.1.4.
Again, please be kind and mirror that video.
Re:A much better QE example video. (Score:1)
What machine are you running on for this demo? Its possible that the machine in the other video was a top of the line machine or so.
Re:A much better QE example video. (Score:1)
As someone else commented the link is now dead. It was killing my T1. I left it up as long as I could stand it!
There was a guy who had a mirror but I just checked and it wasn't responding. That was at:
http://calnet.sdsu.edu/jaguardemo.mov [sdsu.edu]
If anyone has a copy (a LOT of people downloaded the file) please mirror it.
Cheers,
John
P.S. I'm SO dissapointed that I posted this nifty video and didn't even get modded up!
Dead link (Score:1)
Any project for linux ? (Score:1)
links anybody
Re:Any project for linux ? (Score:2, Informative)
You mean a project to convert X11 into an OpenGL stream (which is basicaly what QE does), or do you want Quartz on Linux?
I seriously doubt there is either going on, although the Berlin Project [berlin-consortium.org] might bring it closer to reality.
Re:Any project for linux ? (Score:1)
thanks anyway for the link.
enlightenment (Score:1)
For OSS users, there may be an alternative. (Score:2)
Maybe some opportunities for worlds to meet?
-Peter
How/Where do you get Jaguar? (Score:1)
Re:How/Where do you get Jaguar? (Score:1)
Jaguar -- 10.2 Developer Preview 1 -- was released at the World Wide Developer's Conference to registered attendees. Since then, it has filtered down to the Carracho [carracho.com] and Hotline [hotlinesw.com] worlds.
Ok this is a stupid question (Score:1)
Everything I've seen seems to point towards this direction, espically the SGI merger rumour, and now I see that the windows manger is being implemented in Open GL full time, You have to start woundering.