Want to read Slashdot from your mobile device? Point it at m.slashdot.org and keep reading!

 


Forgot your password?
Close
typodupeerror
×
OS X Businesses Operating Systems Apple

Steve Jobs and the History of Cocoa 37

Posted by pudge from the next-week-the-history-of-tea dept.
lopati writes "O'Reilly Network is running the first of a two part series about the intertwined histories of Apple and NeXT, and more specifically NeXTSTEP and the foundations of Cocoa. Nothing really new, but a nice overview of Mac OS X and a quick rundown of how old missteps (no pun intended :) evolved into the present product and company. I thought this was an interesting tidbit: 'But NeXT wasn't just a software company -- Jobs was also obsessed with building hardware. And this proved to be the company's downfall.' Ironic, because this has been Apple's salvation, or portentous, because history is doomed to repeat itself? You be the judge!"
This discussion has been archived. No new comments can be posted.

Steve Jobs and the History of Cocoa More

Steve Jobs and the History of Cocoa

Comments Filter:

  • Just a few corrections (Score:3, Informative)

    by Anonymous Coward on Tuesday May 07, 2002 @12:30PM (#3478245)
    Not a bad overview, although there are a few factual errors. For example, the article presents the development of the Macintosh as something which started in the wake of the failure of the Lisa in the market. This was not the case. There was actually considerable overlap in the development of the Lisa and the Macintosh.
    Also, the article states, "NeXT solved this problem by basing its computer on Unix, the most reliable operating system that had ever been created." That sentence would be far more accurate if the word "desktop" were inserted in front of "operating system," as there are several server operating systems that are at least an order of magnitude more stable than any flavor of Unix, including IBM's VM and MVS systems, and Compaq's OpenVMS and NonStop NSK (originally from DIGITAL and Tandem respectively).

  • NeXT's hardware woes... (Score:4, Interesting)

    by Surlyboi ( 96917 ) on Tuesday May 07, 2002 @01:30PM (#3478669) Homepage Journal
    I thought this was an interesting tidbit: 'But NeXT wasn't just a software company -- Jobs was also obsessed with building hardware. And this proved to be the company's downfall.' Ironic, because this has been Apple's salvation, or portentous, because history is doomed to repeat itself? You be the judge!"

    I very much doubt history is doomed to repeat itself.
    One difference between NeXT boxes and pretty much
    all Macs these days is installed user base. Don't
    get me wrong, NeXT boxes were pretty kickass (and
    they made a lovely fire [simson.net], they were
    trying to carve out a new market for themselves
    while simultaneously competing with both Apple and
    Microsoft.

    The hardware was also woefully proprietary.
    Macs are moving away from that proprietary stance,
    most of the hardware is interchangeable with x86
    analogues (IDE, USB, VGA, AGP etc...) Now, that's
    not to say that there's nothing wrong with Apple
    hardware, (slow FSB, pc100 RAM, Motorolla making
    your CPUs) but the positions aren't exactly the
    same. Say what you want about El Steve, he does at
    least learn from some of his mistakes...
    • Now, that's not to say that there's nothing wrong with Apple hardware, (slow FSB, pc100 RAM, Motorolla making your CPUs)

      If you're going to criticize them, at least get your facts straight. It's PC133 RAM, and last I checked it's ``Motorola.''
      • Uh, hello, I own four Macs. (Hell, I just ordered a
        new Tibook) I own Apple stock fer chrissakes! I have
        every right to criticize them, regardless of how I
        present it. And really, 100 or 133, they could be
        doing better, couldn't they?

        Did you miss the crux of the argument? I support
        Apple wholeheartedly, stop picking nits and post
        some quality.
      • Please check the following resources
        The old iMac [apple.com]
        The new iMac [apple.com]

        You should probably inform Apple that they aren't supposed to be shipping systems with pc100 RAM and upgrade to the pc133 RAM since you appear to be more informed then they are.
    • The problem with NeXT was the fucking incredible cost of the machines and developer tools. To get one NeXT machine with developer tools would cost about 12,000 dollars at a MINIMUM! Today, you can acquire a well-spec'd Mac with developer tools for about a grand.
      • I agree.

        Still, weren't NeXT sold as ``work statins''? Didn't work stations from SUN et. al cost about the same in those days?

        This brings me the question why NeXT could not compete against ather UNIX work stations brands.
        • The NeXTs were better spec'd than most Sun workstations at the time. Nice features like the built-in DSP made them more attractive for sure.

          The cost was steep for a color NeXT though, $7995 if I recall correctly.

  • NeXT Hardware vs Apple Hardware (Score:5, Insightful)

    by jd10131 ( 46301 ) <james@NOSPAm.emdata.net> on Tuesday May 07, 2002 @01:41PM (#3478735) Homepage
    The greatest problem with NeXT hardware was how proprietary it was. Even the monitor interface was proprietary.

    Compared to NeXT, the current Apple hardware is very standard. (Some people would disagree, but my TiPB has USB, FireWire, VGA, and a PC Card slot) There is also a substantially larger installed base of Apple hardware than there ever was of NeXT hardware.

    I think that more people will be buying computers based on aesthetic style, rather than pure performance. While the currently available processors in Macs are less powerful than their PC cousins, I don't think that the difference is significant enough to matter. (The average user just doesn't need that much power)

    I think the combination of NeXT Generation (apologies for the pun) software with nice looking Apple hardware is the most sexy general purpose computing option. (My PC loving boss is getting tempted by the new iMac even!)

    PS I'll hear nothing about how many buttons the mouse has...that's been done to death!

  • I've seen hints of this thing called Cocoa.

    How does it compare to, say, Qt, which, IIRC, can sit on top of X or Windows as the underlying layer? (Or has Apple simply invented a better lower layer than either of those and consider Cocoa on anything else to be a Stupid Idea?)

    • Yellowbox (Score:3, Informative)

      by hotsauce ( 514237 )

      Apple was going to release a version of Cocoa for Windows called Yellowbox [cocoadev.com] that would be free. That way developers could write Cocoa apps and be assured of a large target market by bundling Yellowbox for Windows customers. When the iMac started selling gangbusters, Apple quietly killed Yellowbox for marketing purposes.

  • Hardware Apple's Downfall (Score:3, Insightful)

    by hotsauce ( 514237 ) on Tuesday May 07, 2002 @04:56PM (#3480281)

    Jobs was also obsessed with building hardware. And this proved to be the company's downfall.' Ironic, because this has been Apple's salvation...

    Or you can argue that if Apple had only made the OS from the begining and never made hardware, they would be ones in the enviable position of being pretend-pursued by the Justice Department.

  • If anyone knows much about his original NeXTSTEP Programming Book for NS3.x which of course all the Class calls were NXPort instead of NSPort, for example, will find it amusing how he basically updated the original TELOS published book for Cocoa.

    The Table of Contents is practically identical.

    It reminds me of those Calculus books where you have to buy edition 7 for the class though edition 6 is the same minus new color coding, ease of understanding theorems crap, and a few typos, including incorrect answers!

    Simson's a very sound author and his book NeXSTEP Programming is excellent but it never ceases to amaze me that people get repeated material published at updated prices without expounding upon prior work.

    If O'Reilly would lower the price a bit I'm sure it will sell well, still far behind Hillegass's Cocoa Programming by Addison Wesley- someone whose knowledge of Cocoa/Objective-C/Eiffel, etc and architecturing real-world projects, while working at NeXT, both as a consultant and top trainer makes his work first on my list of buys.

    Now if I could only afford his training I'm sure he'll have some of his famous brownies for all his guests.
    • I just picked up Aaron Hillegass's new book (how is his last name pronounced? he-yay-gass or hill-e-gas) and I thoroughly enjoyed it. I dig his writing and teaching style.

      After about 4 chapters into the book, after the random calculator and the associated framework I was ready to tear stuff up. I came back a few times as a reference, using the Preferences frameworks in my own application.

      Really good stuff, good concepts and understanding and solid examples. His writing style makes learning Cocoa exciting. When I wanted to learn OS X programming, I started with Carbon thinking more resources are available and it would be easier. After seeing the power of Cocoa, and how little GUI code you have to write - it's incredible. You can spend 5 minutes doing GUI work and layout and spend most of your time just working on what you want it to do.

      Anyhow, enough of that. Aaron's book rocks. Buy it.

      -Pat

  • I used to own a NeXT cube. It was arguably the best desktop platform I have ever used. Quick, flexible programming and well thought out UI. I agree 100% that Jobs made a very bad decision with his proprietry hardware. His decision was obviously based on his history with Apple and his wish to take over that market or at least muscle in. The same can be said for Gassee and BeOS which also started a highly innovative OS on a proprietry hardware platform. What is IMO highly ironic that both companies then ported their OS's to other platforms when their own hardware didn't sell, NeXT to the PC and BeOS first to the Mac and then to the PC when Apple bought NeXT.

    If (always the big IF but interessting all the same) NeXT had developed directly for the PC originally, especially considering that NeXT was introduced around the same time as Windows3.0, NeXT might have taken the market that WindowsNT captured a few years later, considering tha NeXT was a lot more evolved in the GUI and OS level than NT was at the time. NeXT would have had time to develop a large installed user base and applications.

    BeOS might also have had more success if they had originally developed for the PC, when one looks at the instability of early NT4 service packs. Going with open source when they were dying as a company would also have done a lot not only for the open source movement but would have provided a developed OS on the PC with a good looking consisitent GUI. But Gassee was perhaps too greedy.

    If either of these OS's had gained a foothold in the PC world the market would look undoubtedly very different today. I would argue that NeXT had the chance to establish itself in the market, and could have possibly even done it later if Jobs had not suffered from the same money problem as Gassee: charging too much and little marketing.

    Jobs seems to have learned from this though, but unless he does something radical in the CPU area Apple will have mounting problems in marketing. The G5 is nowhere to be seen and Apple cannot change to the x86 platform now. I wonder what Jobs will do?
  • Part Two [macdevcenter.com] of the original article is now available. I submitted a story on this, but who knows if it is going to be accepted.
    • OK. My submission got rejected. Sniff.

      I have some problems with the historical side of the article. One, I don't think Apple was that close to buying Be. They were in negotiations, but they weren't willing to pay as much as Gasse wanted because, IMHO, Be wasn't worth that much.

      Second, Jobs wasn't hired as interim CEO at the time NeXT was purchased. That happened several months later when the board kicked out Amelio. Jobs was initially brought on as some sort of advisor.

Slashdot Top Deals

If money can't buy happiness, I guess you'll just have to rent it.

Close