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Apple Businesses

Apple Dealers Slighted By Company Stores 39

Posted by pudge from the they-are-so-mean-and-stuff dept.
rtphokie writes "Apple is doing something it swore it wouldn't do when it began opening its 28 retail stores according to a C|Net article: stocking its own shelves first. The author made random calls to Apple stores and Apple retailers to support the claim."
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Apple Dealers Slighted By Company Stores More

Apple Dealers Slighted By Company Stores

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  • In some ways I support apples actions here (Score:3, Insightful)

    by brodiedreamyou.ca ( 542180 ) on Wednesday March 13, 2002 @05:14PM (#3159546)
    I can understand that Apple needs to make sure it's stores are profitable in order rationalize opening more. In some ways it's the independant retailers that have failed the apple comunity by not properly pushing Mac's over Pc's. This is why apple thinks it's necessary to open their own stores! Apple really does need to increase their production capacity, this kinda back log happens after every major release, it's just been worse with the imac cause it's so DAMN cool :)
    • Indeed, third party retailers have complained that Apple mark-ups and incentives are less than what other computer manufacturers offer, making them less than ideal to sell.

      Apple has a long history of not getting along with its brick-and-morter resellers.

      I would also make a guess that Apple is feeding its online store [apple.com] before some resellers.

      What a lot of PC fanatics do not realize is that a lot of Mac sales are done online and through phone orders. SmallDog [smalldog.com] is a great example of this.

      As a Mac fan who has *tried* purchasing Mac accessories (usually high mark-up items) at stores, I have no sympathy for the resellers.
      • The margins for retailers on Mac's are pitiful, and commision for sales people in the big box retailers follow suit. I honestly wonder how the small "Mac only" retailers where I live actually pay the bills.

        Getting slightly off topic, since there is exzctly zero chance of ever seeing an Apple Store in Canada, can anyone recommend a good online source for Macs and peripherals in Canada? I hate the customs hassles of buying stuff from the states.
        • do you have the same custom hassles even if you buy from the www.apple.ca store?

          I live in Toronto and only know ones regional to me. There's a good list of some here [hummingbirdservices.ca]. Some of them may be useful to non-Toronto based Canadians because they have websites and will ship to you.

          why are you so sure Apple won't open a store in Canada anyway?
          • Was thinking more of peripherals. FW drives, etc. Thanks for the link, couple of promising leads there.

            Basing my pessimism on not getting an Apple store on how long it took to get the www.apple.ca store. That, and I am in Calgary which would probably be about the 4th place in Canada to get one.

            • Try the accurate-services place mentioned before, I phoned them yesterday and the guy was SUPER helpful, and their site is far more extensive than most independent apple retailers. Try them for sure!
        • I got some RAM online from CanadaRAM [canadaram.com] - seemed like a good price compared to others and works fine.
          Accurate Tech [accurate-tech.com] is a store in Toronto which has been around for about 15 years or so and I believe they sell over the web as well.
          I also found this list [hummingbirdservices.ca] of dealers in the GTA, which includes many that have websites. The prices often compare favourable with the canadian Apple website.

  • Apple knows their place... (Score:4, Interesting)

    by OneFix ( 18661 ) on Wednesday March 13, 2002 @05:54PM (#3159790)
    The Mac has always been a niche market. Those that own a Mac have their reasons, and Apple realizes that Mac sales aren't going to suddenly be hoisted above PC sales.

    M$ knows this as well and this is the main reason they develop for the Mac.

    It looks to me as if Apple is trying to go the way Tandy/IBM did. Take em out of stores and sell direct.

    There are alot of advantages to selling only direct. For starters, it will mean less returns that were due to user error or negligence. Another thing is that they decide on how much customer service to give. Should we accept a return on this Mac if it only needs a new drive, or maybe we can give free OS X training to new users. It's worth noteing that the local CompUSA barely even acnowledges their Apple section (you get the idea you are on your own if you buy a Mac from them).

    I'm sure if it looks like they are "stiffing" retailers, it's probably for a pretty good reason.
    • I bought my Powerbook from a CompUSA and this is the EXACT feeling I got at the time. None of the sales people knew anything about it, the person who had to get the box from the back of the store didn't even know where the Macs were at. They tried to sell me a Sony VAIO because they got a higher commission on it.
    • It's worth noteing that the local CompUSA barely even acnowledges their Apple section

      Agreed, 9 times out of 10 its in the back corner. Small, cramped little area with one demo machine.

      The Apple store on the other hand was quite an experience. I am a PC person, and it wasn't enough to convice me to switch; but I was quite impressed with it. Lots of working, uncrippled (I was able to look at some control panel settings and had full access to the hd) demo machines that were actually connected to the internet! And the store was very clean and sanitized; which I guess is a desirable attribute :P. And, the laptops had full keyboards and weren't bolted down either. IIRC, they also had some additional software installed on the machines for more testing.

      I truely felt that I was able to use the computers and get a handle on them. Compare this to the typical experience you get at a Best Buy or CompUSA; which usually consists of some generic store demo that you have to noodle your way out of, restricted control panels, and internet features which bring up the blasted dial-up internet access screen.
      • Yes, I too enjoyed the Apple store experience. It was friendly to everyone. You didn't seem to be rushed at all. You were almost encouraged to browse and play. And to show you how bad BestBuy is about their Macs, I didn't even know BestBuy had a Mac section :)

        But, it's painfully obvious that this is the reason why Apple is pushing their own stores more than the retail chains.

        I would figure that they will start to shaft some of the smaller Mom & Pop (PC & Mac) operations first, just to see if everything goes well... (you know the ones...the store that carries an iMac in the corner in case someone asks for one)

        The last stores to go (if at all) would have to be the Mac only stores.

        Retail stores will be left to sell software and accessories.
    • I agree with this from a different standpoint. I used to sell computers well known best buy/compusa size company. Out of the 6-7 computer salesmen there, none of them knew anything about macs. As we where clearing out CRT imacs, as the LCD imacs were coming out. I personally sold the entire stock. Its a joke, macs do kick ass, but most salesmen ignore them. One reason for that is the salesmen are techies, who use PCs, and windows for that matter. Salesmen by the way, don't know anything, ignore them accept to have them check stock for you. I quit that job, couldn't handle slinging the crap that store wanted me to.

  • So What (Score:1)

    by Evro ( 18923 )
    What do you think Apple created the stores for? So they could ensure the customer would be satisfied with their Apple experience. They're sick of the shitty CompUSSY Apple displays and want to give off an air of l33tness in the store. So why wouldn't they give themselves first pick of new stock?

    These were retailers' complaints from the very announcement of the Apple stores, and they're valid from their POV, but really, would you expect apple to give the machines to Compusa before their own stores?
    • Maybe not compusa, but this isn't about compusa, it's about smaller mac stores (every city has a few) who have been loyal to apple for years and are now being severely shafted by apple.
  • Apple dealers are apparently providing lower quality service than they promised to do in contracts signed years ago. A "ladder" policy was introduced by one chain, and all Apple dealers seem to know very little about some of their products: "Oh, Apple went out of business two years ago."

    CompUSA denies the rumors.

  • Apple's response (Score:3, Funny)

    by itwerx ( 165526 ) on Wednesday March 13, 2002 @07:09PM (#3160184) Homepage
    "In an effort to provide the fairest and simplest possible allocation of available product among all of the retailers, including our own stores, we elected to perform our distributions in alphabetical order."

    Now we know why they named themselves "Apple"...
    :)
  • ...since they don't don't buy their computers from Apple. they buy them from dustributors. They shouldn't even be complaining about the stores, since any well funded organisation could open stores all over the place. and if they were big enough, they could buy directly from Apple and probably get more stock, ie, the more you turn over, the more important you are, the more timely your supply it.

    I'd say the stores complaining are not huge chains. I doubt wether they'd get any more stock if Apple stores didn't exist.

  • Dubious article? I say yes... (Score:3, Insightful)

    by Saint Fnordius ( 456567 ) on Thursday March 14, 2002 @03:44AM (#3161567) Homepage Journal
    After reading the article, I noticed some subtle semantics that suggest that the author went out of his way to bash Apple.

    The stores are complaining that Apple isn't DELIVERING, and pointing to the number of Macs SOLD through te Apple stores. Nowhere did I see proof that Apple Stores were receiving more for their shelves. More likely computers were ordered and then shipped to the customer.

    If there is a problem, it's that Apple is working too hard to fill back orders, and not providing enough stock to the resellers. This is understandable, because the orders are paid for -- certain sale versus possible sale. But if they swing the other way, they get bashed for bad service.

    I suspect that the problem lies with the duhstributors. Apple stores are probably savvy to the whole order process in comparison, not intentionally preferred. After all, the big guys in the middle tend not to give a damn. Oh well...
    • I'd agree with you if i hadn't expeirenced this myself. I phoned several apple stores yesterday and they all had imacs with NO waiting list. "we can hold one till the end of the day for you if you like" is what they told me. the article seems dubious but it's actually dead-on.
      • It's refreshing to see someone actually test these claims. my hat's off to you, sir. Unfortunately, I'm too far away from any Apple store to try this out, so I thank you for your posting.

        Now, if you'll excuse me, I'm going to put my hat back on, since it's raining and I need to go outside.

  • They don't sell Macs anyway (Score:2, Insightful)

    by Anonymous Coward
    I don't know what these retailers are complaining about anyway. It's not like they bother to sell the Macs they have as they push Wintel to everyone who walks in the stores.

    Now the catalog retailers on the other hand *DO* sell Macs and should get priority along with the Apple stores....

  • Has anybody noticed... (Score:4, Insightful)

    by Warlock7 ( 531656 ) on Thursday March 14, 2002 @12:36PM (#3163145)
    The fact that there are NO verifiable sources offered. The whole situation has been getting blown out of proportion by CNET. Their articles lately have had a major MS lean to them. I want to know who these analysts are that are never reprimanded for misinterpreting the facts and tehn reporting their bad findings to the public. They "speculate" that there is an LCD shortage and that is why Apple isn't shipping as they were expected to ship. Didn't Apple buy an enormous number of LCDs near the end of last year? Why have these analysts forgotten that? I would like to see some hard numbers rather than all this wild speculation and rumor-mongering that CNET has been doing lately. Anybody else notice that they took all the QT related streams down? How about the complete dropping of Macintosh related software from their DOWNLOAD.com? CNET isn't worth getting worked up over anymore.
      1. How about the complete dropping of Macintosh related software from their DOWNLOAD.com?

      OK, CNET sucks. But in the middle of the Download.com [download.com] homepage there is a link to this page [cnet.com], where you can find the Mac related software.

    • I have been trying to get an imac for the last week and NOONE has it, phone anyone. but guess what, every apple store i called did. Apple itself though, none, phone them and see, but every apple store in my area (there are 4 closish) has imacs. Outpost.com? nothing.
      • So why are you complaining? You can get them from the Apple stores that are "closish" to you. This is not evidence that supports the story, by the way. This shows us nothing about how many each of these places has gotten in stock or how many they have sold. So, the NOONE is wrong, since you say that they four Apple stores have them. Is there something wrong with buying at a local Apple retail outlet? Also, how does this all work regionally? Is it something that they are seeing in CA, I assume you are in CA due to the idea that you have four stores in your area? The store near here doesn't have any in stock either. So, until we actually see some hard numbers this is still all speculation.
  • Disclaimer: I do not run an Apple Service shop, so this should be verified by folks who do.

    AFAIK, In order to service Apple computers and get access to Apple parts, you need to sell units. Lots of units.

    If you care at all about Apple service, you have to beat the chains, mailorder, and now Apple at their own game and make the numbers, for the privilege of gaining access to Apple Service parts.

    If you do no service, like a large national chain, or you are content to relay all service to Apple, and have someone lose their laptop for a week to replace the keyboard or to do a clean system install, then you just focus on the slimming margins for box sales, hire lamer sales staff, push product.

    Apple users get hurt by this. So Steve, when you open a retail store next door, talk to your area shops, and give them access to parts based on different criteria.

    • You seem to miss the idea that they guarantee their services by using their own service centers the same way that they are fixing the retail sales of their equipment. By using their own people that they train and monitor, they give the best possible experience.
      Who would you rather have do your work? Choice A: An Apple certified tech that does maybe one for every thousand jobs on a Macintosh. Choice B: An Apple certified technician that does work on only Macs. Most people that own a Macintosh should choose Choice B. This is because there are some subtle differences between the PCs and the Macs. When you go into diagnostics within the OS, you need to know your way around. So, the choices coming out of this are straightforward. Do you want someone that will get your product returned to you as quickly as possible because they do the repair quickly and correctly the first time or do you want somebody that will take longer, due to lack of exposure rather than overall knowledge, and might miss the problem entirely? Again, the first is the better option.
      Apple users get helped by this, they do not get hurt by this.
      • I hear that. I should have been clearer. I am talking about Apple only shops, the smaller dedicated ones, the ones that remember what a Mac User Group is!

        You make good points. I have heard that Apple staff gets put through a lot of coursework, but I am not hearing that they have anything like the management structure and software experience like the smaller shops who still keep Quark running on Quadra 950s, because that is what the client has.

        Replacing trivial parts on a Mac should be practically a while-you-wait service, like getting my new StarTac antenna every month or so at Verizon.

        I assumed a Mac only shop, so your points on competency are taken, but there is more to an Apple fix than that:

        Mac users use more pronouns per repair than anyone else, because usually, macs just work. Example: I'd get a call, the entire report would be "I just clicked on this thing and it didn't work."

        For the user, try being on hold with Apple for three hours to give that report. I'm not saying that Apple is bad at repair. But for Apple to totally succeed they need all three layers of help:

        1. web or phone based FAQs, and generic help

        2. local talent, a vendor whom they can get to know and form a mutual vocabulary, and possibly show up on site. (I know Kodak used to do this for Apple, but still, they were partswappers only.)

        You'd be surprised how long it takes to figure out that what sounds like a bad font addition was really a SCSI problem because the font came with their new scanner.

        3. Apple Depot part swapping and 1-800 phone walk throughs.

        It sounds like you care about service too, and I am not saying that Apple retail should not try to do service. But it is my opinion that these small dedicated outfits should get as much access to Apple Service Parts as they have a credit rating for, without having to sell a large retail quota.

        • Sorry about the misunderstanding. I thought that you were referring to the Apple carriers rather than the Apple specialists. My bad.
          To be honest Apple really needs to improve on the information that they provide to their service reps on the phone, too. I've dealt with them on many occasions over the years and they have actually gotten a bit worse, in my opinion.
          I did have an occasion when they had a local guy come out to the house and swap out a motherboard in my B&W G3. That's the best experience that I've had with them.
          I totally hear you and agree with you. I can't understand why they would have a parts issue, but that does bring to mind an old story that I had heard. I had heard something about how that led to problems with people having machines that they did not actually manufacture. This supposedly had something to do with why the clones went away too.

  • When I shopped for my first Mac (Score:3, Informative)

    by colatek ( 525301 ) <douglasnorton&comcast,net> on Thursday March 14, 2002 @10:10PM (#3166411)
    there wasn't one person in CompUSA that could answer my questions. Lucky for me another customer was able to. I don't have a problem with Apple stocking thier stores first. Other retailers don't put enough effort into selling them anyway. btw I have been using 10.1 for 5 months now after only running Windows since I owned a computer and I love it. G3 600 mhz iMac 512 meg of ram. Not one problem. Next purchase will be a TiBook , well that is if the wife gives the ok. ;)

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