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Apple Businesses

Disney Blames Apple For Music Piracy 721

Posted by pudge from the ripping-is-only-for-pirates dept.
Vishniac writes "It looks like Disney CEO Michael Eisner is accusing Apple in part for fostering music piracy, particularly with its 'Rip, Mix, Burn' campaign. Testifying before the U.S. Senate Commerce Committee, Eisner said that the ad suggests to people that 'they can create theft if they buy this computer.' Apple? iMac? Impossible."
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Disney Blames Apple For Music Piracy More

Disney Blames Apple For Music Piracy

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  • Sue Microsoft. (Score:2, Funny)

    by Nutcase ( 86887 )
    I blame Microsoft. They allow Napster to work. The RIAA should sue Microsoft. Ok.. I confess, this is a lame first post attempt. :P

    • In other news... (Score:5, Funny)

      by cscx ( 541332 ) on Monday March 04, 2002 @02:59PM (#3107354) Homepage
      Disney CEO Michael Eisner blames Microsoft for allowing children access to rampant pornography. Through their technology cleverly named "Internet Explorer," children of all ages are easily given access to hoards of pornography. In addition, their tagline "Where do you want to go today?" has already been answered by many children to the words of "To the bathroom... I'll be right back" and "To take a long shower." This can only serve as proof that Microsoft is using pornography to corrupt little children's minds. Eisner said that the propaganda suggests to people that 'they can easily perform self-pleasure if they buy a computer with Windows XP. We must stop this travesty now.'

    • What? (Score:5, Funny)

      by Nailer ( 69468 ) on Monday March 04, 2002 @03:55PM (#3107908)
      'they can create theft if they buy this computer.'

      I made a look at the artlce, and created a stare in disbelief as Eisner established a speak that built an annoying and built a trample of my fair use rights, brewing a pissed me off.

  • I wondered when (Score:4, Insightful)

    by snkline ( 542610 ) on Monday March 04, 2002 @02:32PM (#3107049)
    I wondered when they would get around to going after Apple. *sigh* granted in order to RIP the music you sort of need to have bought the CD, but of course fair use rights can just be damned.
    • Yes but there's always a library! :) Our library has CD's you can checkout....granted, it's almost always older stuff, but you can check it out anyway.

      Of course it's BS, but what do we know??

      • Yes but there's always a library!

        Aha!

        I've always suspected that my librarian was in reality one of those Pirates®, swilling rum, plundering booty with raised cutlasses while they make innocent civilians, like those depicted in Disney cartoons, walk the plank over shark infested waters!

        Soon, they'll probably be running Rogue, Outlaw, Unamerican Apple Macintosh computers!

    • Re:I wondered when (Score:3, Interesting)

      by zzyzx ( 15139 )
      That only works if none of these burned copies are given to friends.

      I was worried about that ad a lot just because I love my mp3 player. The more we gloat about how easy it is to get music without buying it, the more the RIAA is going to come down on people who actually do buy cds but only listen to them in MP3 form. You have to lay low sometimes.

      • Re:I wondered when (Score:2, Informative)

        by Troed ( 102527 )
        ... actually atleast in Sweden it's _legal_ for us to burn copies of our CDs and give to friends. We even had a "parliament member" who did this and admitted it in our biggest newspaper. An investigation was made but she wasn't charged with anything.

    • As the Apple Tunrs (Score:4, Funny)

      by Hes Nikke ( 237581 ) on Monday March 04, 2002 @02:50PM (#3107281) Journal
      have a looksee at Insulting Partners Is Fun [appleturns.com] on AtAT. that is probably the best written artical on the subject i could find ;)

    • Re:I wondered when (Score:5, Funny)

      by killmenow ( 184444 ) on Monday March 04, 2002 @03:36PM (#3107706)
      Haven't you heard? Disney doesn't believe in fair use. And I quote:
      "I am openly, unabashedly in support of the government stepping in to set standards," said Preston Padden, head of government relations for Disney.
      Wait...he continued...this is good stuff...
      "There is no right to fair use."
      Need I go on?
    • and buy a PowerMac, PowerBook or new iMac in the event that they get sued. That would be probably more effective than any Amicus Curae brief.

  • Following this logic... (Score:5, Funny)

    by NanoGator ( 522640 ) on Monday March 04, 2002 @02:33PM (#3107055) Homepage Journal
    ... I could accuse Disney of promoting the idea that not wearing pants is okay. There is Disney propoganda that dates back as far as World War 2 of Donald Duck clearly not wearing pants. Thanks to Disney, people are learning left and right that not wearing pants is ok.

  • *RIP*, Mix , Burn (Score:4, Redundant)

    by Dutchmaan ( 442553 ) on Monday March 04, 2002 @02:33PM (#3107058) Homepage
    If it was download mix burn they might actually have a point...

    • Re:*RIP*, Mix , Burn (Score:3, Interesting)

      by Jobe_br ( 27348 )
      Precisely. If Apple is 'guilty' then so are Philips and Aiwa (?) which I believe both ran ads centered around making your own mix CDs. Once again, the RIAA's strategy appears to be to go after an enabler rather than the culprits. Its an old argument, but for Christ's sake, blame the individual who illegally shares the content, not the companies that enable content to be shared.

      While they're bashing Apple, they might as well pull in Sony as well ... oops, Sony's a member of the RIAA, too, right? How do you get music to your mini-discs? Or is every album that's available on CD available on mini-disc? Not at my BestBuy! This is the digital age, trying to put the genie back in the bottle is a waste of the artist's money! Come up with something else ... figure out WHY people aren't paying money for CDs and then see what you can do.

      Things have to change. If the money that's been spent bribing Congress and paying lawyers had been spent in a thinktank-like endeavor to come up with a new way of doing business and representing the artists, MAYBE everyone would be happier now.

      what boggles my mind is how complete and utter morons with business degrees end up in cush houses while my hard working self, with above-average intelligence can barely scrape by. Maybe I should check my morals and feelings at the door and become cold-hearted like the rest of 'em.

  • Pixar (Score:4, Insightful)

    by nakhla ( 68363 ) on Monday March 04, 2002 @02:33PM (#3107061) Homepage
    One has to wonder what effect this may have on Disney's relationship with Pixar. After all, Steve Jobs is the CEO of both. I've always hoped that Disney would purchase Pixar. They do great work and would be a valuable addition to Disney. Buy them, and then leave them alone. Don't interfere in that division.

    But, with Eisner making these comments could the already difficult relationship between Disney and Pixar become even more strained?
    • But, with Eisner making these comments could the already difficult relationship between Disney and Pixar become even more strained?

      If they do, Disney won't be able to make anything but Peter Pan sequels. Shame...

    • Re:Pixar (Score:5, Insightful)

      by dschuetz ( 10924 ) <david&dasnet,org> on Monday March 04, 2002 @02:38PM (#3107120)
      I've always hoped that Disney would purchase Pixar.

      Funny, I've always hoped that Pixar would get big enough that they could buy Disney, or at least Disney's feature animation division. Maybe then we'd start seeing decent Disney movies again.

      • Re:Pixar (Score:4, Interesting)

        by epukinsk ( 120536 ) on Monday March 04, 2002 @02:43PM (#3107180) Homepage Journal
        Amen. The last thing I want to see is have Pixar's creative freedom resrained even further. I want to see where that talent can go, and while childreb's films have worked well for them, there may come a time when they decided they should be doing something else. Better then that they can take their small company and move. To be part of Disney, I feel, would bind them to a certain genre unnecessarily.

        -Erik
        • I really enjoyed this story [osopinion.com] over at OS Opinion last week detailing something similar, namely, why it might be a good idea for Pixar to buy Square Studios USA (the makers of Final Fantasy: The Spirits Within).

          An interesting possibility, certainly. Imagine, the level of detail in FF:TSW mixed with Pixar's talent for quirky stories. I'd say that's a winning combination.
    • I would say, as Pixar nears fulfillment of their contract, their relationship will become more and more of Michael Eisner kissing Pixar's ass.

      That is, if Disney knows what's good for them. Lately it seems Disney can't make a decent movie and Pixar couldn't produce a flop if they wanted to. (Knock on wood) The last thing Disney wants to do is have Pixar go shopping around for another distributer four years from now.

      -Erik

    • Re:Pixar (Score:5, Insightful)

      by JWW ( 79176 ) on Monday March 04, 2002 @02:47PM (#3107231)
      On can wonder how long it will be until Steve will announce that the next Pixar movie won't be released by Disney. Eisner has way more to lose by this stupid move than he has to gain. Most Pixar movies gross over $100 million at the box office. Apple users will have to pirate a hell of a lot of stuff to match the loss to Disney if the next Pixar movie goes to another studio.

      If this continues I guess I'll have to boycott Disney someday. Funny, the last purchase I made from Disney was the Tron DVD and if I remember right it was all about giving the users more power. I guess Eisner hasn't seen it.

      • Re:Pixar (Score:3, Informative)

        by Thagg ( 9904 )
        Pixar has a five-picture deal with Disney, and for complicated reasons Toy Story II didn't count. So, there are three movies left that Pixar has to release through Disney, and that Disney has some creative control over -- after which Pixar will be able to be it's own, for better or for worse.

        It appears that these three pictures are all green-lit, and are in progress at one stage or another.

        thad

        • Math (Score:4, Insightful)

          by Watts Martin ( 3616 ) on Monday March 04, 2002 @04:15PM (#3108107) Homepage
          Pixar has a five-picture deal with Disney, and... Toy Story 2 didn't count. So there are three movies left that Pixar has to release through Disney...

          Not counting Toy Story 2, they've released:

          1. Toy Story
          2. A Bug's Life
          3. Monsters, Inc.

          Now, I'm no math major, but doesn't five minus three equal two films left on that contract?

          • Re:Math (Score:3, Informative)

            by Thagg ( 9904 )
            Ouch! You are correct on the math, I was lame on my explanation of the deals.

            IIRC the way it works is that the 5-picture deal was renegotiated after Toy Story came out. The previous deal was a three-picture deal where Disney got the lion's share of the revenues, and the new deal is a five-picture deal with more even cost- and revenue-sharing.

            So, the two pictures so far are Bug's Life and Monster's Inc; as they were released after Toy Story -- with Toy Story II not counted as it was intended to be a direct-to-video sequel.

            thad

    • Re:Pixar (Score:3, Insightful)

      by John_Booty ( 149925 )
      I've always hoped that Disney would purchase Pixar. They do great work and would be a valuable addition to Disney. Buy them, and then leave them alone. Don't interfere in that division.

      I wish I was naive as you! Your world must be a beautiful place. Pixar would have nothing to gain from such an agreement except large sums of cash for the executives. Now, are you naive enough to think that Disney would want nothing in return for large sums of cash? Of course they aren't. They'd want more control over Pixar's movies.

      I'm seriously finding it hard to figure what benefits you think would arise from such an arrangement. It's not like Pixar is cash-strapped; their films have all been quite profitable, with big grosses and low costs of production compared to non-CG fare.

  • Movies (Score:2, Insightful)

    by jimrandall ( 553083 )
    Next thing you know Disney will come out with a children's movie featuring Tommy - the little pirate boy of the 21st century, and how he took over the music piracy industry. Disney movies always teach kids what's right.

  • Create Theft? (Score:5, Insightful)

    by jaavaaguru ( 261551 ) on Monday March 04, 2002 @02:34PM (#3107073) Homepage
    they can create theft if they buy this computer

    Theft is an act. It is not something that is created. People can create pirate copies of music with this computer, but they can do that with most modern computers. Why pick on Apple? Why not pick on Redhat for shipping GRip and and MP3 encoder with their distro?

    • Two reasons... (Score:2, Funny)

      by sterno ( 16320 )
      1) Rip, Mix, Burn is a cool tagline and picking on it makes better press than attacking parts of an operating system many people still haven't heard of

      2) It's Microsoft's job to take on the Linux folks not Disney's. There are clear divisions of labor in the Illuminati.
    • People can create pirate copies of music with this computer, but they can do that with most modern computers. Why pick on Apple?

      Especially since Apple was long scolded for being pretty much the last computer manufacturer to ship CD-R drives with their machines. I can only assume Apple's legendary ease-of-use has finally caught up to them, despite the prominent "Don't Steal Music" disclaimer.
  • I'm reminded of a quote I heard over the weekend. Apparently the "leader of the club that's made for you and me" stated in the hearings (in a rather irritated, spiteful tone of voice) that "if things don't change soon, we might have to change the way we do business."

    Gee, you think?

  • The problem with corporate media (Score:5, Insightful)

    by Jeffrey Baker ( 6191 ) on Monday March 04, 2002 @02:35PM (#3107081)
    The biggest problem with Disney's worldview -- and by association the worldview of the RIAA, MPAA, Vivendi, et al -- is that they assume no private person can create anything. All art comes from the generous people at Disney. There are no independent aritsts.

    People like Macs in part because they can rip, mix, and burn their purchased CD collection, or tote it around on their iPods. They also like Macs because they come with the tools necessary to put your own videos on DVD and send them to your pals. The latter is a power Disney does not want you to have. All video entertainment must come from the corporate empire. None of it must come from regular people.

    • Re:The problem with corporate media (Score:4, Insightful)

      by epukinsk ( 120536 ) on Monday March 04, 2002 @02:53PM (#3107307) Homepage Journal
      The latter is a power Disney does not want you to have.

      This is a point that should be emphasized. My friends and I have made a hobby of making short (3-15min) films with my Canon PowerShot S110. It takes 20 second video clips at 320x240, which I can string together into some pretty funny shorts with music overlayed and sound effects and titles here and there. It's downright amateurish, but the people I show these films too (especially the ones who know me and my friends) lough out loud for ten minutes. And they got to keep the $8.75 they pay for a feature film.

      OK, so a ten minute amateur short isn't exactly FOTR. But the point is film is becoming a very accessible medium when people can make movies with a $300 camera that they bought for still pictures.

      -Erik
    • Amen to that. Here at my art school [scad.edu], and I can tell you first hand that there are very few students at my school (pop: 5500 students) that are planning on going into buisness for themselves. Sure, some film students dream of indie work, and the Illustration students are planning on going into solo work (living job-to-job), but the rest of us are being prepared for work as part of a company. From 2d animators to 3d animators, from fashion designers to jewlery designers, from sequential artists to graphic designers, we all understand that we will most likely end up doing work for a big megacorporation, because that's the only way to make a living as an artist any more. Independent work in today's market simply can't survive -- thanks to companies like Disney, Microsoft, Sony, etc. I'm going into 3d animation, and while I'd love to work for Sony/Verant or Blizzard or Pixar, I'd much rather be able to do my own work or work for a smaller company (id, Valve, etc) and still make an honest living. If this media consolidation continues, artists won't be able to create anything without the blessing of a majour corporation. And media consolidation is the next logical step if this legislation gets passed...

      ~Aaron

    • Re:The problem with corporate media (Score:5, Insightful)

      by EccentricAnomaly ( 451326 ) on Monday March 04, 2002 @04:08PM (#3108046) Homepage
      The biggest problem with Disney's worldview -- and by association the worldview of the RIAA, MPAA, Vivendi, et al -- is that they assume no private person can create anything. All art comes from the generous people at Disney. There are no independent aritsts.

      Correction, Disney knows full well that art comes from independent artists... they've made a fortune stealing ideas from idependant artists. See this slashdot article [slashdot.org] about Disney ripping off "Atlantis" from "Nadia" and this bit [aol.com] about Lion King ripping off Kimba. Let's not forget the other Disney "orginals": Snow White, Sleeping Beauty, Pinnochio, Little Mermaid, Beauty and the Beast, Robin Hood, Aladdin, etc... Disney's whole business model is based off of "Rip, Mix, Burn". Hell, at least Apple pays for other people's technology (e.g. Xerox) before they take credit for it.
  • Kudos to Eisner! The more that the copyright orthodoxy makes ridiculous statements like this, the more it makes it look like their proposals need a good second look. Let them scream from the mountains how everything should be protected because everybody is pirating. When they get to the point of labelling all of society as criminals all of society (hopefully including congress) is going to start wondering what the RIAA and the MPAA are smoking.

  • Not piracy (Score:4, Insightful)

    by kill-hup ( 120930 ) on Monday March 04, 2002 @02:35PM (#3107085) Homepage
    Apple's just advocating fair use. Ripping your CDs and burining custom collections is not "bad" - it's the people who take things a step further and distribute that music. If a person wants to load the tracks onto a custom CD or an MP3 player, what's wrong with that?

    The arguments the "industry" keeps posing are like blaming the people who make ballpoint pens for ransom notes....

  • To listen on my portable cd player, whats the legal problem ?

    That people do illegal things isnt Apple's problem or now is it ?
  • Rip/Mix/Burn isn't very subtle. It's not very suprising that someone was going to notice this and be annoyed. It wasn't very subtle at all. It's yet another opening shot in the war between the computer industry and the RIAA. I'm rooting for Apple in this one obviously.
    • Advertising is not meant to be subtle. It was an effective tagline that summarized a product feature, and was memorable. Anyone remember any taglines for those dual CD decks from Panasonic, because I sure don't. Apple is not to blame here, and plenty of artists are on their side and love their technology - Moby, BT, Francis Ford Coppola, all of these people would not support a company that would allow users to take income away from them.
    • Rip. Mix. Burn. Seems very straight-forward to me.

      Rip: Copy from a CD (legal to copy under fair use)

      Mix: I think of mix tapes or CDs. (Also legal under fair use)

      Burn: Make a copy of your mix on CD. (Still legal!)

      So I don't see where the criminal act comes in. Maybe Download/Mix/Burn/Sell would cause trouble. Apple hasn't been afraid of using their crack legal teams in the past. I'll bet this cleared many levels of legal review before the first printing.

      • Re:Well yeah it does (Score:4, Insightful)

        by zzyzx ( 15139 ) on Monday March 04, 2002 @02:49PM (#3107264) Homepage
        The problem comes in step 0 and step 4.

        Step 0: Borrow cd from a friend

        Step 4: Burn 100 copies and give them to your other friends.

        The ad is perfectly legal, but it did have the effect of focusing the music industry's attention on Apple. Hmmmm maybe they'll focus so hard on Apple that they'll forget about my Neo MP3 Player.
  • Much of this problem stems from a bad choice of words. I'm referring to "ripping", which to the nerd crowd means "extracting digital audio from a cd to a computer".

    To the rest of the world, however, they equate "rip" with "rip-off" as in "steal".

    This whole problem is a result of bad word choice by the folks that coined the term for digital audio extraction. If they would have called it "extraction" or "transformation", Disney wouldn't be able to criticize Apple this way.

  • And diseny does not? (Score:5, Insightful)

    by iotaborg ( 167569 ) <exa@softho m e .net> on Monday March 04, 2002 @02:36PM (#3107100) Homepage
    I find it funny that Disney has the nerve to accuse Apple of piracy. They even clearly state "don't steal music" in their Rip Mix and Burn campaign.

    Disney is really a hypocrite, I mean it has been proven that a lot of their movies have been ripped off of others, such as Lion King from Kimba the White Lion and Atlantis from Nadia. Where has Apple gone wrong?

    Maybe it is because of the Disney and Pixar issue (where Pixar is bound by Disney and they really want to get out of the contract) and Disney is really aiming at Steve Jobs... Thats probably completely wrong but is a thought.

  • Doesn't disney Own "Go" A search engine that allows you to fing DeCSS?

    http://srch.overture.com/d/search/p/go/?Partner= go _home&Keywords=decss

    Shouldn't they be yelling at themselves for aiding and abetting piracy?

  • Rip, Mix, Burn? (Score:2, Insightful)

    by rlangis ( 534366 )
    Sounds to me like they're promoting doing what teenagers around the world have done for decades: make music mixes.

    Only Apple has made it easier to do via CD's. If you own the CD's, how is that piracy? Since if you're RIPping, you have to have the actual CD in the drive, correct? MIXing is rearranging tracks, and BURNing is putting the mix BACK on the CD.

    I, for one, am tired of all of the legal bullshit that's being tossed around over the same damned issue time and time again. Do these people have nothing CONSTRUCTIVE to do, for crying out loud?
    • Do these people have nothing CONSTRUCTIVE to do, for crying out loud?

      Nahhh. They've laid everyone off already, and now there aren't any people to attend meetings.

  • Oh man, I always thought that when they said "Rip," they were referring to the seat of my pants from sitting at my computer for 15 hours a day. Oops.
  • that everyone else in the music industry is these days. Instead of looking to technology to advance the industry, they look at every new development as another way to crush competition and diversification. Eisner is just another one of these businessmen who only like market capitalism as long as it doesn't help anyone but himself.

  • Apple has been quite responsible (Score:5, Informative)

    by feldsteins ( 313201 ) <scott.scottfeldstein@net> on Monday March 04, 2002 @02:38PM (#3107128) Homepage
    What the Great Eared One fails to mention is the fact that Apple has made several important concessions to the music industry in the design of their products.

    First, there is the hard-to-miss "Don't Steal Music" warnings that one finds in Apple's materials. Second, much to the annoyance of consumers, Apple has designed the iPod/iTunes product in order to minimize the opportunity for piracy - it only synchs one way. Yeah there are ways around that but not with Apple software tools.

    Incidentally Jobs has already issued a response [macworld.com] that is quite interesting.

    • Re:Apple has been quite responsible (Score:5, Insightful)

      by Tackhead ( 54550 ) on Monday March 04, 2002 @02:55PM (#3107323)
      > Incidentally Jobs has already issued a response [macworld.com] that is quite interesting.

      I see a new Apple ad campaig in the making:

      Jobs to Eisner - "Bite. My. Ass."

      Actually, what I'd really like to see is Jobs going full-tilt and taking his case public.

      How about a picture of Hollings, Eisner, and Valenti, with scrolling text describing what the SSSCA would do to the computer industry. ("In 2002, Congress held hearings on the SSSCA...") with appropriate soundbites on how "they can create theft if they buy this computer" and other Hollywood claptrap droning on in the background, presented on a giant screen, with throngs of dullards staring blankly at the screen, until someone comes in and throws an iPod through the screen, shattering the telestreen (and the images of the Hollywood Cartel spokesdrones) into billions of fragments.

      "Rip. Mix. Burn. The reason why 2004 still won't be like 1984"

      • Or they could hire George Clinton again and have him bust out from behind the screen, distribute flashlights and then call the drones up to The Mothership of Funk.

        Pixar to Eisner: "Fine! We'll build our own studio! With blackjack! And hookers! In fact, forget the studio and the blackjack!"

        Then you could change your slogan to "Bite. My. Shiny. Metal. Ass."

        Heh.

  • the Steve responds.... (Score:5, Interesting)

    by imac.usr ( 58845 ) on Monday March 04, 2002 @02:38PM (#3107129) Homepage
    see news story on MacCentral [macworld.com] today...this should prove interesting when the Disney-Pixar contract is up for renewal.

    "If you legally acquire music, you need to have the right to manage it on all other devices that you own," said Jobs.

    Goddamned right.

  • Everyone promotes pirating! (Score:3, Interesting)

    by mini me ( 132455 ) on Monday March 04, 2002 @02:41PM (#3107154)
    1. I remember Rogers used to run an ad campain that promoted their high-speed internet by describing how fast you can download audio off the internet (this was back in the Napster days).

    2. I recently saw a commercial for some computer co. (I'm thinking Gateway, but I'm not sure) that promoted using it's built in CD-burner to record audio downloaded from the net.

    3. And of course Apple.

    If the people didn't want to download music and burn it themselves then these ads would not be successful. By showing that these ads are working, then what the people want is the ability to download such things. The RIAA (Disney, whoever) should just let it happen. The RIAA's role will not become obsolete even if the only means of distribution was via the net. Their role would definitly change, but it would not cease to exist. They just need to see this.
  • Its when you distribute music to people freely that it becomes piracy. Apple makes no hint of transmitting your music to others, instead it provides features that make music more worthwhile to buy. In other words, they're promoting purchase of CD's.

    Eisner should not be an advocate of the RIAA, he doesn't even know his terminology. As long as they want to use heavy handed approaches to 'stopping piracy', then they're just going to encourage it. Why? Because Eisner, for example, is turning into an enemy of freedom. As long as people hate him, then people feel justified in doing exactly the opposite of what he demands.

  • Rip, Mix, Burn (Score:5, Insightful)

    by sean23007 ( 143364 ) on Monday March 04, 2002 @02:41PM (#3107165) Homepage Journal
    I hope some of the Congressmen realize the difference between "Rip, Mix, Burn" and "Download, Burn." When Apple advertises that their computers can do this, they are in no way advocating stealing anything from the music industry (obviously). When you "rip," you take the music off of a CD that you purchased, when you "mix," you remove the crappy songs from the album that were only included so you don't feel ripped off because you bought a CD with only 2 or 3 good songs on it, or you put the best songs from several albums that you purchased onto one CD, effectively discarding the excess crap that the good ol' music industry always surrounds the good stuff with. And I think that even the elected know what "burn" means.

    "Rip, Mix, Burn" does not in any way advocate taking things away from the music industry, in fact it advocates getting rid of the things you paid for but deem worthless.

    • Re:Rip, Mix, Burn (Score:3, Informative)

      by ConceptJunkie ( 24823 )
      I hope some of the Congressmen realize the difference between "Rip, Mix, Burn" and...

      Congressmen will realize what Disney pays them to realize. Now you'd better turn yourself in for pirating music by humming "Whistle While You Work", because you are illegally copying Disney's Intellectual Property with your mind. Federal agents are closing on your location as we speak.

    • I hope some of the Congressmen realize the difference between "Rip, Mix, Burn" and "Download, Burn."

      There seems to be three opinions:

      Apple - "Rip, Mix, Burn"
      Eisner - "Download, Burn, Steal"
      Slashdot - "Burn, Hollywod, Burn"

  • In other news: (Score:5, Insightful)

    by Waffle Iron ( 339739 ) on Monday March 04, 2002 @02:43PM (#3107188)
    Ford is accusing Sears of encouraging theft by their promotion of "Crafstman" brand crowbars, thereby distressing Ford's customers. When asked about the actual legitimate uses for crowbars, a Ford spokesman responded: "What's the first thing that comes into your mind when you hear the word 'Crowbar'? I bet it's smashing things. Maybe smashing windshields. We just want to help keep crowbar wielding thugs off of our streets."

  • Rip. Mix. Burn. != Download. Burn. Share. (Score:4, Interesting)

    by mttlg ( 174815 ) on Monday March 04, 2002 @02:44PM (#3107199) Homepage Journal
    How is changing the order of the songs on my CDs theft? Contrary to corporate belief, they don't control what I do with their products in the privacy of my home.

    Rip - Copy songs from my CDs to my computer.
    Mix - Change the order of these songs to create a playlist that is superior to the individual CDs.
    Burn - Write this playlist to CDs so I can listen to these songs the way I want to listen to them.

    I don't care how many laws Disney buys, there is absolutely nothing wrong with this. What these ads really suggest is that Apple won't try to make listening to music impossible because of some misguided notion that pissing off your customers is good for business.

  • Whoah! (Score:4, Insightful)

    by Microsift ( 223381 ) on Monday March 04, 2002 @02:45PM (#3107211)
    Love the new Apple icon for /.

    Actually, he blames tech in general, that some tech companies are making money by selling devices that enable piracy of OPIP (other people's Intellectual Property).

    Disney likes to have things both ways, go to a store and pick up a Disney branded toy, if the toy plays music, it will play either Disney-owned tunes, or public-domain music. Disney doesn't want their stuff going into public domain because they would have to actually create something new!

    Of course, Disney creates new stuff all of the time, often drawing from public domain sources(Grimm's Fairy Tales, Hans Christian Andersen, Arabian Nights). So when Eisner say he wants to hold the rights to Mickey, Donald, Goofy in perpituity, it is with the knowledge that public domain works have fuelled his company's growth for the last decade(Beauty and the Beast, Little Mermaid, Alladin).
  • A company with a number between 2% to 5% of the market gets so much attention?

    If *everyone* reads this kind of article (Newsweek, Time, Slashdot, anywhere), Apple gets tons of free advertising, even though just about any PC can do the rip, mix, burn thing. Or rather, I think they can. I always build my own, so I actually don't know what a Dell or Compaq can do.

    Anyone here own a Compaq or Dell? Is it as simple as 'Rip, Mix, and Burn'? I'm not joking when I say that this *is* how simple it is on the Mac. Writing a CD is similarly simple; select, drag, and burn.
    • Umm, it's just as easy on my PC. I just install Adaptec Easy CD Creator, reboot after it installs the necessary SCSI drivers, download and install the latest service pack for it, then uninstall it and install an earlier one when I discover that it has incompatibilities with Windows 2000, then do a Test burn just to ensure that Adaptec has correctly detected the data extraction speed of my cdrom, and then voila, I can copy the music cd! Ok, maybe you have a point.
  • This is a pretty shocking accusation. I have to wonder if Eisner shared his planned comments with anyone at Disney or Apple beforehand? That is a pretty striking statement from someone who has in the past supported Apple.

    Evenmoreso, Apple pretty frequently says they support people keeping the music that they own on their iPod and in iTunes. There is a little clause with iTunes and iPod telling consumers to be responsible and only store music they own.

    Eisner is being a bit extreme. He should learn to pick his battles. Picking a fight with Apple is a bad idea... Especially when you have fish like MusicCity and Gnutella to fry.

    Bad business decision. Really bad.

    Justen

  • "Create a Theft"? (Score:4, Interesting)

    by UsonianAutomatic ( 236235 ) on Monday March 04, 2002 @02:46PM (#3107224) Homepage
    By the time this posts it will probably get modded redundant, but nowhere did Apple's ad say "Rip, Mix, Burn, Steal", or even "Rip, Mix, Burn, Swap."

    This is one of the most offensive aspects of Disney et al's push for the SSSCA; I don't begrudge them the desire to protect their IP from piracy, but the attitude that everyone who owns a computer (especially an Apple, apparently) is a dirty, dirty pirate really chaps my hide. Well, that plus the fact that the SSSCA would effectively put me out of work if passed in its current form.

    God forbid I rip all of my CD's which I legitimately own by a particular band and burn all of the MP3s onto one mix CD that I can leave at the office.

    Rip, Mix, Burn, Fair Use.
  • Apple puts this slogan in all of their music-related ads, and I think they also put this sticker on their iPods. I guess no one told Eisner about that...

    It doesn't matter, really, since the RIAA/MPAA's new take is that beacuse of rampant piracy, fair use must be eliminated. There goes the doctrine of "substantial non-infringing uses."

  • Disney be careful the wrath of Steve Jobs (Score:3, Informative)

    by damieng ( 230610 ) on Monday March 04, 2002 @02:48PM (#3107253) Homepage Journal
    Disney had better be pretty careful on this one.

    Disney's last few decent releases have been the animated films Toy Story, Bugs Life, Monsters Inc. all coming out of the Pixar production house.

    Steve Jobs is still CEO of Pixar and major shareholder and has a well-known history of fighting fire with fire.

    IIRC Pixar are contracted to do two more films and so far every one of the Pixar releases has been very successful especially when the merchandising angle is brought in.

  • good debate (Score:4, Interesting)

    by room101 ( 236520 ) on Monday March 04, 2002 @02:49PM (#3107256) Homepage
    It is about time a large company got into this debate that wasn't on the accusing side.

    For a long time, some companies (Apple, Sony, HP, Phillips, etc.) gave us tools to "rip, mix, burn" and told us to do so (I'll call them enabling companies), but when these sacks of shit that make up the content production companies complain and whine, these enabler companies didn't have much to say. Now, a big company (with their own healthy PR department/company) can take some of this brunt.

    We can now have a debate between equals (or semi-equals, we'll see who else gets involved over the coming months) instead of having big companies attacking consumers for using products in seemingly fair ways (use the PC to rip and mix, and then use a CD burner to make CDs).

    So, yeah, it seems pretty stupid and petty, but I think it is high time the enabling companies get into this debate.

  • earth to Eisner.... (Score:2, Insightful)

    by mudshark ( 19714 )
    Ummm, IMHO fair use is still alive. Until further notice, I reserve the right to space-shift any content that I have purchased.

    Mikey can perform unnatural acts on a wildebeest for all I care. Come and get me, Disney lawyers!
  • If you buy a car you can drive drunk, commit vehicular homicide, drive by shootings, run red lights, or even speed! Since most people speed, rather than use these cars for legitimate uses, they should not be allowed to sell cars any longer. Please people, look at what you are saying before you go on national TV and make an ass out of yourself.

    Note to Moderators: The above was SARCASM, not a TROLL.

  • Small market share to the rescue... (Score:3, Insightful)

    by ErnstKompressor ( 193799 ) on Monday March 04, 2002 @02:49PM (#3107260) Homepage
    Isn't this kinda like blaming ferrari for global warming? I don't quite see how '5%' of the computing population could be responsible for the decline in 'insert favorite medium here'...

    As an aside, I think the term 'rip' has been misinterpreted...I remember when iTunes came out and I had to explain to someone that 'rip' was parlance for extracting songs off a CD...not 'ripping off the musicians' by downloading illegally obtained music.

    I guess "Extract, Mix, Burn" isn't as catchy...

  • Rip = Own (Score:5, Insightful)

    by Performer Guy ( 69820 ) on Monday March 04, 2002 @02:49PM (#3107261)
    How is someone supposed to "Rip" if they don't "Own" first? Someone needs to put these companies in their place and protect us from their unbridled greed. We have fair use rights, if we have paid for the music then we are legally allowed to make copies for our own enjoyment. You cannot "Rip" unless you have already purchased the product. Apples rip, mix, burn ads do not encourage theft, they encourage fair use. It is Disney who is encouraging theft by trying to persuade congress to restrict our freedoms for their unfair desire to charge us all multiple times for the same product. Now THAT would be theft.
  • Michael's just pissed off because Shrek's been downloaded more times in one day than the Little Mermaid II, Tarzan, and that Sleeping Beauty thingamacrappy-sequel all rolled up in one really putrid sack with a ribbon on top. I'm sure after all those months he's spent hearing Mickey go on and on about how Minnie's riding his arse for not bringing home the bacon, Mr. Eisner's had just about enough.

    The people at the Mousehouse had better whip him up an extroverted and irascibly witty talking trashcan along with a shy, yet very good-hearted dancing toilet plunger who yearns to be spitshined, so he can set out on some sort of adventure in which he sings and dances Disney's way back to decent animated features.

    Ah, who am I kidding? They'd be better off just hiring Dreamworks to do it for them.

  • Yo Ho (Score:4, Informative)

    by daeley ( 126313 ) on Monday March 04, 2002 @02:50PM (#3107279) Homepage
    Well, if using an Apple makes me a pirate (and didn't Apple fly a pirate flag from the building they were inventing Macintosh in?), I submit the following:

    Yo Ho
    Yo Ho
    A pirate's life for me
    We're ripping and mixing and burning CDs
    (Upload me hearties yo ho)
    We steal and create theft and don't like Disney!
    (Download me hearties yo ho)

  • All Apple's fault (Score:3, Insightful)

    by piecewise ( 169377 ) on Monday March 04, 2002 @02:58PM (#3107350) Journal
    Yes, it's completely Apple's fault. Eisner's 100% right.

    I didn't WANT to buy a Mac. Apple made me because they convinced me with marketing how great it is!

    I didn't WANT to use OS X -- Apple made that the default.

    I didn't WANT to download Limewire. My hand was forced.

    Downloading them music itself? Well gee, I had Limewire, OSX, and the Mac, so I figured it was alright.

    Sheesh! Leave it to Apple to corrupt me. God forbid it's as simple as an individual making his or her own decisions.

    Luckily, Disney isn't forcing me to pay for their overpriced, shitty theme park, nor are they making me see their crap films (not including Pixar movies -- simply because those ARE pixar movies, not disney whatsoever).

    Anyway, I'm going to write my Congressman and demand Apple be stopped!

  • what do I do now? (Score:5, Funny)

    by Dr. Awktagon ( 233360 ) on Monday March 04, 2002 @03:05PM (#3107397) Homepage

    I replaced my old iMac partly to get this fancy CD burner and the iTunes software. If only I had known I was creating theft by making copies of my CDs and rearranging the tracks without permission, I would never have bought it.

    But on the other hand, if I didn't buy the Apple computer, my $1300 would be sitting in my savings account, denying the government rightfully-deserved tax revenue (or even worst, I could've put it in my Roth IRA! Only communists use Roth IRAs to deny the government tax revenue!!).

    I don't know what to do! Should I take the computer back and then turn myself into the authorities? Please, won't Bill Gates or Mickey Mouse come on TV and tell me what to do! Or N*SYNC could write a song about it so I'll know what to think! Help! Thinking is hard!

  • Differing goals (Score:4, Interesting)

    by Registered Coward v2 ( 447531 ) on Monday March 04, 2002 @03:16PM (#3107505)
    The fundemental problem is Apple and Disney have fundementally different revenue models:

    Disney has a huge backlist of contenet taht they can control, repackage and sell - on ethey add to every day. Anything that threatens the value of taht backlist by making it easy to acquire outside of Disney lower's Disney's expected return, and hence overall valuation.

    Apple views itself as a hardware company - it makes money selling Apples, and teh software is an integral part of the product, and not one that forms a growing and valuable backlist (how many people are looking forward to the 25th aniversary edition of Finder?). Hence, they are driven by consumer desires, and consumers want to be able to burn CDs (and increasingly, DVDs). If they don't include features consumers want, people will either:
    1. Buy add-ons elsewhere; or
    2. Buy something else.

    In either case, Apple loses potentially profitable revenue streams.

    Apple, whoever, is also a software company and values IP (although for quite some time they gave away updates to their OS - until they realized it was a good source of revenue), so they really don't want people to steal music or videos, but must try to walk a fine line between providing what people want and not giving people ways to steal other's property. In the end, however, revenue trumps a desire to take the high road - they are after all, in business to make money, and for Apple, the money is in the hardware/software combination; not in softwrae alone - so they will do what it takes to push iron out the door, no matter what Mickey wnats or thinks.

    Now, what would be interesting if Apple secretly tagged al copies of CDs/DVDs burned with their software - so copies could ultimately be traced to the original source.

  • You're ruining our industry! btw, here's a Grammy (Score:4, Funny)

    by goober ( 120298 ) on Monday March 04, 2002 @03:21PM (#3107558)
    Yeah, Apple is a real threat to the music industry. That's why they gave them a grammy [apple.com]!

  • AT&T Broadband is even worse (Score:3, Insightful)

    by ashultz ( 141393 ) on Monday March 04, 2002 @03:26PM (#3107609)

    There's an ad for AT&T broadband that runs on my local TV in which a guy says "I want to download the top 40... while it's still the top 40!"

    I've always taken that to be telling me that I should buy a cable modem to pirate music faster.

  • Jobs' reply: (Score:5, Interesting)

    by mblase ( 200735 ) on Monday March 04, 2002 @04:35PM (#3108273)
    Record companies should loosen their grip [macworld.com]

    Quote: Jobs suggested that recording labels need to make it easier for consumers to use their own music however they want. "If you legally acquire music, you need to have the right to manage it on all other devices that you own," said Jobs.

  • Funny that... (Score:3)

    by um... Lucas ( 13147 ) on Monday March 04, 2002 @04:44PM (#3108354) Journal
    Funny that Disney chose to single apple out, since they are in bed together due to Pixar... One must wonder how much money Steve Jobs has made for Disney, through movies and merchandising. Perhaps Eisner could have picked up the phone to his wunderchild, rather than moan and groan about him to congress?

  • Guns are legal. Therefore, so is my mixtape. (Score:3, Insightful)

    by Tokerat ( 150341 ) on Monday March 04, 2002 @06:54PM (#3109333) Journal
    - I can go to a store right now and buy a gun. That makes me a consumer.
    - I can take my gun to the shooting range and practice. That makes me a hobbyist.
    - I can take my gun into the parking lot and shoot someone. That makes me a criminal.

    - I can go into the Apple Store and buy a Mac (yeah, a nice Dual G4 1GHz... *wipes drool* sorry where was I). That makes me a consumer.
    - I can take my Mac home and pop in a CD to listen to, as well as rip that CD to MP3s and even take my favorate songs from that CD and others for use in my car. That makes me a hobbyist.
    - I can also burn that mix 1,000 times and sell it unlicensed on the black market while paying no royalties to the record label or artist. That makes me a criminal.

    The logic behind most corporations management of IP assets gives me a siezure if I think about it too hard. If seems that most common sense [slashdot.org] has gone out the window when it comes to tech. issues. The problem is that money is as addictive as cigarettes and those who are addicted are already swiming in it. Therefore they have the resources to buy off elected officials and get restricted laws passed. And let's not pretend for one second i'm being "unconstitutional" or "anti-american" by suggesting our politicians take kickbacks, either.

    The real unconstitutionality here is that those corporations that already make enough to feed all the hungry nations of the world and don't, (yes that's you Disney, you sweatshop fucks) simply try to bleed us dry as well, as if the ultimate goal for them is to have ALL the money in the entire world. Fellas, that's not how the game is played, get your head out of your ass before you ruin every aspect of our lives.

    If you made quality products, piracy or not quantity wouldn't be a problem. Stop screaming bloody murder for the protection of IP that isn't even worth protecting.

  • Boo hoo (Score:3, Insightful)

    by DarkProphet ( 114727 ) <chadwick_nofx@ho ... inus threevowels> on Monday March 04, 2002 @08:06PM (#3109765)
    I can create theft with a crowbar and some duct tape, whether or not the hardware store advertised this fact. Besides, 'Rip, Burn, and Mix' is perfectly legal. I have a tendency to be rough on CDs. Nor do I like all the songs on any given one. Its very nice to be able to create a mix copy of my favorites. Best of all, thats perfectly legal. I can do anything I want with a legally-purchased CD. I can use it for a coaster, I can use it as a frisbee, and I can use it damn near any way I choose, as long as it doesn't make me money. Its not like apple says 'Rip, Burn, and Mix (illegal music)' or anything. Sheesh, gimme a break.

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