Apple Forces Aqua Themes Off themes.org 293
Teferi writes "I was browsing t.o and just noticed this - Apple has apparently sent a Cease and Desist letter to themes.org stating that several of the OSX-look themes up othere are copyright violations, because they use the Apple logo in one or two small places (like this theme). " I've actually exchanged mail with OctobrX on this one, and read the C&D letter. Apple's stating violation based on using of copyrighted materials - the Mac OS and Apple logos in this case. Hopefully, now that Apple is talking with the creator of the themes, things can be resolved amicably, and the themes restored - but for the meantime, the themes have been pulled.
Themes in general (Score:3)
what I wish (Score:1)
Apples and Oranges (Score:1)
A simple substitution might be in order as I guess the apple image is a trademark. Remember that you need to protect your trademark to maintain your ownership of it.
Mark
Trademarks (Score:5)
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How reasonable is Apple? (Score:1)
We should get to see how reasonable Apple can be... hopefully the themes can go back up after modification. We really shouldn't be using the _actual_ Apple logo for themes.
But then again, why is apple snooping around a Linux Desktop Themes site for copyright violations?
Apple has the potential to either show itself as a more benevolent and flexible bigwig, or as an immature "mine mine mine" Big Corp(tm). A showing of the latter will further alienate the Linux/Apple communities, methinks.
----- if ($anyone_cares) {print "Just Another Perl Newbie"}
Hang me - I'm on Apples side! (Score:1)
I just hope the people who made the themes remove the stupid logos and put the themes back up - they were great! But as long as the logo is there, I think Apple is doing the only reasonable thing by opposing the themes.
--
AC
Apple probably has a point. (Score:1)
Of course none of the ones remaining have Apple logos.
Well ... (Score:4)
Re:Themes in general (Score:1)
They could probably ask
Re:Themes in general (Score:1)
Re:Themes in general (Score:1)
Amicable resolution? Pshaw! (Score:1)
Apple regard their look and feel as a trademark and defend it jealously. It wouldn't surprise me if they had taken out design patents on key aspects of it. If Apple are to be open and non-proprietorial about anything, it is not going to be their look and feel.
I'd be very surprised if Apple allow this to be resolved with anything short of the withdrawal of anything vaguely Aqua-like.
Re:Themes in general (Score:1)
Re:How reasonable is Apple? (Score:5)
A.) If you remember a few weeks ago, Linus Torvalds had to do a similiar thing with people that were using the Linux logo and violating the Linux copyright. Most people were able to understand how Linus could be so worried about the Linux name, but when Apple does the same thing, many people on Slashdot are getting upset. Apple has to defend their copyrights or they risk having a more major copyright infringement go unpunished because they wouldn't punish the smaller ones.
B.) Honestly, if you designed an operating system and someone else designed an OS (over even a theme) that LOOKED like yours, down to the logos - wouldn't you be a little upset too?
I hope that Apple will be understanding and allow Themes.org to repost the themes with the Apple logo's removed. But I have to agree with what they are doing.
kwsNI
Re:Themes in general (Score:1)
Personally I think that things like that are actually beneficial to the company, since it's basically a big advert (Like someone's likely to think they don't need to watch the Matrix because they've already seen the theme;)
--
Fair Enough. (Score:1)
-[ World domination - rains.net ]-
Re:what I wish (Score:1)
Re:How reasonable is Apple? (Score:4)
Perhaps a pineapple (Score:3)
Or a bananna instead of the apple? There's enough fruit for everyone.
Re:what I wish (Score:1)
missing at leat one... (Score:4)
So what about Slashdot's Apple logo icon? (Score:2)
Consumer Confusion (Score:5)
Re:what I wish (Score:2)
So you got your wish.
cr
From a lawyer.. (Score:5)
Re:what I wish (Score:2)
The original settlement was Apple Computer was NOT to enter the music business. (aka no computers that could 'do music')
Apple was then sued a second time, and lost 26 million.
A link [macobserver.com] with some other links about it.
THANK YOU!!! I'm glad there's sanity somewhere... (Score:4)
Since the Apple logo is a trademark...
Apple MUST agressively protect it, or they will LOSE the rights to said trademark. The same applies to ANY trademark.
Did't Linus have to shutdown an auction of *linux*.* domain names not too long ago? Well that's the same thing. The holder of a trademark, be it Apple or Linux or Sun or whoever, can NOT ignore ANY transgression. If they DO, they lose the rights to that mark.
Yeah, I know that's bass ackwards. Buy that's out wonderful intellectual property laws. Oppressively strict protection in some places, ridiculously loose in others. Seems that they are written only to provide income for lawyers, not protect the intrest of consumers OR producers.... (sigh).
john
Slashdot in trouble? (Score:1)
Bah... I still liked the rainbow apple better anyway :)
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Why do you think Apple re-did the old logo? (Score:1)
1) To cheapen up the printing of materials. 1 color vs 6.
2) To allow Apple to establish an iron rule over the brand. Mr. Jobs does understand the importance of branding. He'd love to see Apple become as big a brand as Sony.
If Apple is wanting EVERY theme that makes the machine look Aqua-esque (or Mac OS esque) then someone needs to take Apple to court. If they are only being anal about the 1/2 chewed Apple logo, they are intitled to be anal.
Are you sure? (Score:1)
Of course, the screen shot could be from the wrong theme, but hey..
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Qs about VA (Score:2)
"About 1 week ago, VA Linux Systems received a Cease and Desist letter from Apple Computer, Inc. of Cupertino asking us to remove this and one other theme from the themes.org website. After reviewing Apple's request, we decided to comply.
We have sent a copy of the Apple Cease and Desist letter on to the theme authors, and told Apple to resolve its allegations with those individuals directly. In the meantime, VA felt that the presence of Apple's logo in the theme justified pulling the themes, pending a resolution."
I'll admit I do not have all the facts here and I would like to know more. However it would seem that they're trying to pass responsibility for the whole thing on the little guy who authored the theme. That seems awfully curious, granted that could be is how business for VA. I'm sure plenty of companies would do the same, but I was sort of disappointed with VA when I read that. It would be interesting hear a few more details about this.
Apple (TM) (Score:3)
So what's the problem? If there were any evidence that Apple had been vicious or overbearing about (Remove these themes This Instant or we'll break you and your site) I would understand people being upset. But from what little evidence is available this sounds as if it was a polite reminder that Apple has to protect those trademarks or lose them, and those themes are in violation. If someone knows otherwise, say so.
Pug
Whether they're called Faith, Axioms, or Assumptions,
/. and the apple logo (Score:1)
First off, it's probably considered fair use, somehow. Using the apple logo to signify stories about Apple is hardly misuse of the logo. Otherwise IBM would sue the Wall Street Journal or something stupid like that.
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Apple did the right thing (Score:1)
"The government helps those who help themselves" -- at least in this instance.
I definitely don't see this as a case of MegaCorp cracking down on the innocent little opensourcers. Whoever made the theme *did* use the Apple logo, which to a newbie could possibly be construed as meaning that the theme was officially supported by Apple.
I've seen lots of Apple-logo themes, and I had always wondered why Apple was doing anything, since it could cause them major problems down the road (if a *real* trademark issue ever came up).
ICQ: 49636524
snowphoton@mindspring.com
Re:Themes in general (Score:1)
My point again is that the Wachowski brothers don't care.
Munky_v2
"Warning: you are logged into reality as root..."
Trademarks are like a company sig (Score:2)
Peoples,
If someone writes code and posts it somewhere they are usually going to give themselves credit and hopefully a GPL tag too. Code is kinda your product. Well Apple's sig. for its products is that Apple Logo. Apple is just making sure that when people see that Apple its a clear indication of who made it (like your sig is a clear indication that your code was written by you). You probably wouldn't want me to tag my code with your name (mainly because my code is awful and may diminish your name as an exellent programmer if you don't act quickly). Trademarks must be defended to be kept.
Apple Records Vs. Apple Computer (Score:2)
Re:Desperate Measures (Score:1)
And also... (Score:2)
Make a computer ispired by a movie or a book and you may create business...
The did... (Score:3)
Twice.
Once when they were first formed. McCartney and his merry little band of legal jackals attacked Apple when it was still Jobs and Woz working out of their garage, introducing Apple Computer to the wonderful world of litigation.
They tried to get Apple to change it's name to various other fruits, like Orange and Banana. Sonn enough tho, Jobs and co. hired competent legal council and found out that the beatles had no legal leg to stand on, so long as Apple was in the computer business, not the music business.
Not content with peaceful coexistence, misters "we're better than Jeasus" kept an eye on Apple from afar, waiting until they were a big company with lots of money they could extort, rather than two kids in a garage.
The beatles sued again when Apple released a Macintosh that had the POTENTIAL to used with MIDI. This was settled out of court for one of those infamous "undisclosed sums".
Incidently, that lawsuit was the origin of the "sosumi" beep in the Mac sound control panel. It was originally to be called "xylophone" (spelling?)... but Apple's legal dept thought that having a mucical insturment named in the OS woulod hurt Apple's case against mccartney and his minions. So the engineers renamed the beep "sosumi". They spelled it out over the phone to the approving lawyer, telling him it was a Jappanese word for "peace and harmony" or sone such. The legal dept agreed, and thus a beep was born.
Both cases (and the development of the "Sosumu" beep) can be read about in more detail in Owen Linzmeyers: "The Mac Bathroom Reader" or the sequel by the same author *title of the sequel escapes me tho).
john
The theme is still on there! (Score:1)
NJV
Re:How reasonable is Apple? (Score:3)
Absolutely not! I would do exactly what Apple did, but I'd never be upset about it.
US trademark law requires that Apple do this in order to defend their trademark and copyright interests. If they don't Microsoft could then use the Apple logo and successfully argue that Apple is being selective about who it goes after, and Apple might lose the trademark.
On the other hand, if I had designed the Mac look and feel, I would be thrilled that it was so instantly adopted by so much of my competition! The rapid adoption of the Aqua look and feel means that Apple did good user-interface wise. I use Aqua under Sawmill and Gtk+ (actually AquaX under Sawmill) and I think it's one of the best innovations in desktop look-and-feel so far. First off, why did it take this long for people to think of color-coding window baubles? It certainly improves the ease-of-use for me. Also, horizontal pin-striping struck me as a bad idea at first, but somehow it adds something to my desktop. It almost seems as if the applications are more "crafted".
Apple did a great job here, and they know that every innovation will be coppied by the rest of the market. In a way, I'm sure this is why they went for such a radical look. They want everyone to say "oh yeah, that's the new Mac look". Microsoft would call this "mindshare".
Apple - IBM (Score:2)
/. had a nice 3D looking IBM logo...and then the IBM lawyers came down on Rob...and after a week or so it was decided that
I'm showing my age here right?
Re:Trademarks (Score:1)
Suing Apple (Score:2)
Re:Perhaps a pineapple (Score:2)
Perhaps the little face logo could be frowning or something different like that.
--Ben
Re:/. and the apple logo (Score:1)
The presence of the registration mark in the
Anomalous: inconsistent with or deviating from what is usual, normal, or expected
Re:Perhaps a pineapple (Score:1)
Don't know if it would look good that small, though...
Re:Amicable resolution? Pshaw! (Score:2)
Hi-Tech D392,963 Ornamental design of scrollbars
Hi-Tech D393,635 Modal window for a computer display screen
Hi-Tech D402,284 Ornamental design of a set of windows
Gizmo D391,559 Modal window for a computer display screen
Gizmo D391,947 Utility window for a computer display screen
Hi-Tech D392,265 Utility window for a computer display screen
UNIDENTIFIED D404,385 Ornamental design for a composite desktop
UNIDENTIFIED D406,122 Ornamental design of a set of windows
UNIDENTIFIED D406,123 Ornamental design of scrollbars
UNIDENTIFIED D413,588 Menu design for a computer display screen
This was legitimate (Score:1)
Re:Perhaps a pineapple (Score:1)
Re:what I wish (Score:1)
The story goes that when Apple Computer started including a microphone with their computers (in the early 90's, with System 7.) This could be construed as "getting into the recording industry" and so Apple Computer made a beep sound and called it "sosumi".
Re:Qs about VA (Score:2)
That's becuase all themes.org (and so indirectly VA) does is post the theme. AFAICT, it was not authored by a themes.org staff member, so really using the apple logo in the theme is the responsability of the author.
And it is not a "look and feel" case here - they were actually using the Apple logo in the theme. There are other Apple "feel like" themes that don't use the actual logo.
However, it is still odd that Apple feels the need to do this.
Is there a lawyer in the house? (Score:1)
Now that I think about it, my GTK theme doesn't have any logos in it. All of the logos are in the Enlightenment theme. Hmm...
--Ben
Re:Themes in general (Score:1)
[Dr. Evil voice]I meant mute, like it has no voice. No power. It's dead really.[/Dr. Evil Voice]
Munky_v2
"Warning: you are logged into reality as root..."
Marketing and topology (Score:1)
Apple launched some new toys yesterday. I saw it here on
But to sue over someone using a logo ? I'm sorry ! Logos are two dimensional. There are millions of organisations in the world with logos. Everytime you doodle, or perform a bodily function, you risk imitating someones logo ! The mathematics of topology in two dimensions, and the number of logos in the world make this unavoidable.
This is not about Apple the technology leaders. This is about Apple, once the technology leaders now being led by their marketing executives. This 'cease and desist' letter demonstrates that in their case, style has defeated substance. There will be no more toys to kill for from Apple, just pretty monitor cases, pretty logos and law suits for anyone threatening the topology of their logo, or using the wrong shade of blue anywhere.
Suggestions: (Score:2)
2. An upward extended middle finger in rainbow colors.
3. The now defunct (maybe) SGI cube.
4. A window of many colors, flapping in the wind - from right to left so we don't offend MS-Anyone(TM).
5. Tux, eating an apple.
6. A nicely rendered drop of water that just screams "Aqua!".
Re:what if an image isn't part of the software? (Score:1)
It's not a copyright, it's a trademark! (Score:3)
This is one of my pet peeves, right up there with misspelling "lose" as "loose". Copyrights are, as the name implies, the right to copy something. Trademarks are logos and words which are used by companies to identify and distinguish themselves.
Trademark law has one important difference from copyright law, and that's the "enforce it or lose it" clause. If Apple didn't go after these and other unauthorized uses of its trademarks, it could end up losing the rights to them. It's much worse with words, and Xerox has a never-ending battle to avoid having their company name become a generic word.
If copyright law was like this, it would either be complete anarchy (it's too easy to copy something in private) or a complete police state (to hunt down every instance of illegally copied material).
Re:Perhaps a pineapple (Score:1)
If I recall correctly, that's what SNL did in their "Mac PostIt" parody ad. It was also striped in the other direction, but they don't stripe the logo anymore so you can't use that.
I'd suggest getting rid of the bite, implying that your version is in some way more complete than Apple's.
Re:Trademarks (Score:2)
The screenshot does, but the theme is for the widgets only, and they don't use the mac logo.
Anotehr case of Jobs showboating Re:Suing Apple (Score:1)
Jef Rafkin called his project Macintosh. When Steve was moved to Macintosh (because no one else in the company wanted to deal with him) Jobs and the rest of the crew liked the name.
Apple tried to buy the name off the stereo maker. No luck. Then, Jobs walked into a meeting when spirits within the Mac developer group was low, and showboated. He announced that Apple had bought the name Macintosh.
1) Apple could try to get the name, and prove Jobs to be a liar.
2) Apple had to buy the name...whatever the cost, thus the lie of Jobs would not be known.
6 million in early 1980 dollars is the common figure bantered about for what the name cost Apple.
So, no suit.
Re:Fool (Score:1)
Let the flame wars begin. (Score:1)
Perhaps a Penguin... (Score:1)
Sounds like the icon that should have been used in the first place. An aqua embossed silouette (sp?) of Tux would be perfect. An option to select from various "aquified" icons like Red Hat, KDE, and Gnome icons would be even better.
Re:what I wish (Score:1)
Re:Why do you think Apple re-did the old logo? (Score:2)
Plus, Apple (especially under the leadership of Steve Jobs) has always been 1/2 tech, 1/2 marketing. Apple probably sells as many computers on "image" as they do on tech. Jobs and crew have done a great job of promoting Apple as the alternative computer (i.e. 'Big Brother', 'Think Different', etc. ,etc.) Losing firm control of that image (allowing the Logo to be spread without company control, the Mac 'clones') just seems to downgrade the counterculture image that Apple has worked to build. (That's why they seem to enjoy suing *everybody* over look/feel issues.)
Picture of the theme. (Score:1)
They _COULD_ give permission. (Score:1)
I'm seeing several people saying that Apple needs to defend their trademark to protect it, but they also could give these authors express written permission to use it. Which, wouldn't make them look like bullies, and also keep them honest on trademark patrol.
But that's not their motive here. Their motive is to protect their "look and feel." There's plenty of places on the net where apple's logo is being used without express written consent, and I don't see them going after them. I know the "Apple Platinum" & "eMac" themes have an apple logo... Hmmm... But that's old stuff. So they aren't too worried about that.
<conspiracy theory>
Could it be that Apple is going after Linux, because it's a competitor for their OS? It runs on their machines, is a better OS, and now can look just like it? Apple's had quite a run without competition for the OS on their machines. They got rid of Mac Clones, because they couldn't handle the competition. Prices were just too low. Fortunately for Apple, they had the OS to leverage, and without licences for Mac OS, these clones weren't really worth too much. Now... Linux is a mainstream competitor, and runs on Apple hardware, and can look just like their latest and greatest. Could someone build a G4 based machine with Linux preinstalled with the E-X theme and Aqua GTK theme on it? It's a possibility. Are they worried? I'm guessing so.
</conspiracy theory>
Why do they even care? (Score:1)
Holy shit! can't they find anything better to do? Thier lawyers must have gotte bored one day and typed "Apple look-alike" Into a search engine. This is the dumbest thing I have heard today! I am sure I'll hear more though.
Re:Themes in general (Score:1)
That wasn't my point anyway, my point is that the Wachowski brothers rock and don't care about themes using their images.
Munky_v2
"Warning: you are logged into reality as root..."
This wasn't "Look and feel !" (Score:3)
Personally, I do find it to be in extremely poor taste that these theme makers are ripping off a GUI that hasn't even been released yet. Sure, it's not illegal, but it's only fair to let the company that came up with that GUI be the first to release it to the world. If you still want it on your machine, then release the theme after that. But Apple did the work on the GUI; I don't see what's so unfair about them wanting to release it first. They can't do anything about it now, I know, but I don't see why the themers couldn't have just left well enough alone and waited till after OSX's release (or at least until after OSX DP3's release) to turn their themes loose.
For better or worse (Score:2)
I understand that the case for trademarks as stated in similar cases is that each company must police the use of it's own trademark(s). By allowing exceptions adds strength to a case involving a more dis-honourable use of the trademark by way of "You never said anything about themes.org using your trademark, so why can't I?".
I'm sure Apple want this cut-and-dry, so please don't start moaning to Apple about how great Linux/themes.org is? And how naughty Apple are for smacking them on their themes.
Just my pennies worth... I don't often voice my opinions these days, but I felt I should make my point on this case.
Skinz with a Z (Score:3)
Re:Is there a lawyer in the house? (Score:2)
First - without having read the C+D letter, this is not about 'look and feel', it is about their logo. Yes, they have a solid complaint, which you can most likely remedy by simply removing their logo.
They -without question- have a legitimate complaint in the use of their trademark. They also have (probably) a legit complaint re: copyright in their logo. (*note - this is not the same as a look and feel copyright complaint: there is no functional purpose to the logo, so copyright can still attach.)
Trademarks is the important one here: trademarks doesn't really fit well in intellectual property law. It's really a subset of consumer protection law. The apple logo is the only means the company has of communicating to the customer that they can count on whatever bears that logo being from, or approved by, Apple. Now we all know that you are not trying to pretend that your theme is an Apple product, but what about the next dolt who installs Linux, sees your theme, and assumes that Apple contributed it or approved it. It's potentially misleading.
Just replace the logo with something interesting and creative, and you're probably off the hook.
Re:THANK YOU!!! I'm glad there's sanity somewhere. (Score:2)
Re:Desperate Measures (Score:2)
- Jeff A. Campbell
- VelociNews (http://www.velocinews.com [velocinews.com])
Because it was ugly (Score:2)
Frankly, I don't blame them. I have an old Powermac 8500 sitting in the corner, and the colored logo against the platinum case is really silly. It made sense back in the Apple II* days when you could only have 16 colors, and so your logo had to use just those colors if you ever wanted to display it on the screen. What was once a technological advance (ooooh, color!) is now just an anachronism (eeew, color!).
Or a Lemon? (Score:3)
Still, I think Apple would have done better contacting the authors of the themes directly, and asking politely instead of ordering. If done properly, it might have actually built them good will ("hey, Apple was really cool about it"), instead of reminding everyone of their propensity to sue.
Jon
I'd love for that situation to change. (Score:2)
This situation just creates stupid lawsuits and forces companies to do things which don't really help them and only create bad will. For example, a few years back, Disney had to tell a daycare (maybe it was a preschool) to get rid of the paintings of Donald Duck and Mickey Mouse they had up on their walls. Disney didn't have a choice, because of the way the trademark law is set up. But if they had had the choice, I really doubt that they would have sent the daycare a cease & desist letter. After all, it's really free advertising for them.
I know that in Japan, companies have a lot more flexibility to ignore some uses of trademarked characters (fanzines, for instance) and prosecute others (out and out piracy). I would love to see that made possible here.
Jon
Re:How reasonable is Apple? (Score:2)
Copyrights don't become generic if you let other people use it.. in many cases you have no choice (see fair use) but with Trademarks you have to defend your trademark like a zelot...
Basicly a copyright says "I own this text/work/design" patent "I own this machine" Trademark "This refers to me" not "I own it" but in a way "it owns me"....
The idea is that it refers only to you... and not to someone or something else... An easy way for a costummer to identify you...
"Apple Linux" better refer to the Linux operating system on an Apple computer or someone is going to be screwed... (Especally if it's the name of Microsofts latest operating system)
Apple is basicly worryed about the delusion of the Apple logo by allowing it to be used on theams used by non-Macs.....
I would also like to add that such trademarks should NOT be applicable to themes.. that they should be (by nature of a user adding them and not bundled with an os) not reduce the meaning of the trademark... The apple logo is there becouse it's Apples logo... It belongs there...
However that is not how the legal experts will see it...
(insert very bad language here)
Re:Not surprising.. (Score:2)
I really wish I had some mod points to give this guy. I liked his post, and I think that the other moderators think they are the fscking gestapo.
---------------------------------------
Re:It's not a copyright, it's a trademark! (Score:2)
I agree that it's important to police the use of your rights. But in the case of Xerox, I wonder just a few things. You folks in the north (US) call a carbonated beverage either a soda or pop (depends where you are) in general. But the people from the south call a carbonated beverage coke. It's really confusing when you switch locales, because if I go up there and order a coke, I get a Coke, but I really wanted a Dr. Pepper. Likewise, you come here, and ask for a Coke, and then are mystified when you learn that we have more than one "flavor" of coke.
In the case of business use (like Kinko's) offering Xerox copies, they better be using Xerox, I agree. But interestingly enough, they didn't focus on the same sort of approach as Coke. The term xerox has found a way into the vernacular as a verb and should be appreciated by Xerox. It means they are the de facto, and are therefore respected (hopefully). Thus if a usage involves the verb xerox and not Xerox, they should be pleased. I don't go canonize a few copies, not only is it sacreligious, but it sounds silly. I go xerox a few copies.
Note: the use of upper and lower case is important to my message.
Re:So what about Slashdot's Apple logo icon? (Score:2)
Re:Well ... (Score:2)
Sheesh.
Re:Why the heck would you want a MacOS theme? (Score:3)
I usually don't take the time to reply to posts on /., however yours is so blatantly inaccurect that I can't stop myself from replying:
MacOS's interface largely uses that ugly 'Chicago' font (an insult to Chicago). I presume (or hope) that you can change this, but how many of MacOS's tech-savvy users (if there are any? ::grin::) are going to do this?
- It's been changed to charcoal since MacOS 8.5 which came out more then a year ago...
- As to whether or not it's a good thing that you be limited in your choice of font for the U.I., well isn't that a question of standardization? I mean, I know people that use large fonts of unknown origin on windows (fonts which I personnaly find very ugly). Sure, Windows will let them make that choice; however it won't properly resize the dialog boxes afterwards... Doesn't it make more sense to limit the user's choice to fonts for which you can guarantee uniformity of the U.I.?
When a message box comes with up with Yes and No buttons, you can't just press Y or N. You have to click.
-Nope, you can most usually click Command-y and Command-n or Esc for cancel. It's been there for a while. Of course if the program makes its own dialog box, the OS can't really do much.
You can't just enter to select a button on a message box which has the focus. Again, you have to click.
-With almost no exception, all dialog boxes always have one button in evidence (represented by a different larger button contour). Pressing the Enter key is the equivalent of activating that button. This has been in the system at least since the Mac Plus era...
You can't move between the buttons a message box with the arrow keys. How un-intuitive.
-I suppose that's more a design decision then anything else. Why would you want to move from button to button if you can activate then using the command-keys ? Redundancy, in my opinion, is mostly a very good way of losing beginner users...
The menus don't have access keys. This is a really annoying feature. Again, you have to click. Admittedly some menu items do have shortcut keys, but you can't access all the items this way, as you can with access keys.
-I'm not sure I see why this would be annoying. If the user is supposed to have and use a mouse, why would he need to be able to do everything by keyboard? Moreover, to do so you'd have to show which key activates which menu, isn't that more information to overload your user with? Finally, to assign a command to all menus and sub-menus always brings up problems; do you really feel that the keys associated with the menu activation or the sub-menu activation on windows are intuitive. In my opinion, the letters often (but not always) have no intuitive relation with the option I'm trying to activate.
-As I look at my netscape, on Linux, I realize that these menus also don't offer keyboard activation (at least if it's feasible, it's not written on the screen). But I know that Alt-F will activate the Find option and Alt-N will bring up a new window. I'm not sure if I need much more from the keyboard but what I am sure about is that I can live with an OS that feels I'll know how to use a mouse to reach the other options/commands.
-For what it's worth, Connectix has been offering what your looking for (all menus, all sub-menus by keyboard) as an option since Speed Doubler 2. Used to work pretty well on my PB190 for those rare times when I didn't want to use the trackpad (which I just didn't like).
Give me a Windows 95/98/2000/NT theme any day. I admit that macs are generally more user friendly (albeit at the expensive of processing power) but some of the points of the interface are just so terrible!
-Although I'm probably just being really picky, I don't believe that you can just make the claim that macs offer a more user friendly U.I at the expense of processing power; remember that Win98 is the OS that allows to have a web page as a background...
As for whether or not the interface is so terrible; I hope, given all the unfounded statements you made and which I tried by the preceding to correct, that you'll change your mind or at least take the time to go back and try a mac before restating anything on an open forum...
Re:Skinz with a Z (Score:2)
Oh, Hell. (Score:2)
Why must stop using symbol/logo? (Score:3)
Re:THANK YOU!!! I'm glad there's sanity somewhere. (Score:2)
Jazilla.org - the Java Mozilla [sourceforge.net]
It's a nonissue (Score:2)
Now if Apple was making some kind of "trade dress" argument about the color scheme, or a "look and feel" copyright argument, there'd be a real issue here. But that's not the case.
Re:what if an image isn't part of the software? (Score:2)
See.. it doesn't matter where the image comes from, and the technical mechanism of display doesn't matter either; what matters is that the final work is a) not apples and b) uses apple's trademark.
Ironic (Score:2)
Re:Well ... (Score:2)
Re:Fair use... (Score:2)
Remember that parody is allowable in fair use. These themes are essentially parodies of the MacOS. Whether the logo could be allowed is questionable. My guess is that if the apple logo is changed signifcantly enough so that it could not be confused with Apple's actual corporate logo, then this would be allowable, but IANAL.
PLEASE! PICK BETTER HEADLINES! (Score:2)
DON'T BE IDIOTS!
Your headline makes one belive that Apple has forced all themes that LOOK like it's own theme to be removed from themes.org.
In reality, apple lawyers wrote a letter to themes.org, pointing out that a couple of the 'aqua' themes they were hosting happened to be using apple's trademarked logo without permission, and that this was a violation of trademark law. *IT IS A VIOLATION OF TRADEMARK LAW*. No biggie. no lawsuits, no threat of fines, no nothing.. just a polite note pointing out a trademark violation.
Re:Themes in general (Score:2)
It just so happened that the themes also resemble apple's theme (which is why the authors use the apple logo..)
Re:THANK YOU!!! I'm glad there's sanity somewhere. (Score:2)
Re:THANK YOU!!! I'm glad there's sanity somewhere. (Score:2)
Jazilla.org - the Java Mozilla [sourceforge.net]
Re:Perhaps a pineapple (Score:2)
Like the Banana Junior in the old Bloom Country strip?
Exactly! Or the lesser known asian clone of the Apple][ (pineapple).