Apple Plans To Equip MacBooks With In-House Cellular Modems (macrumors.com) 42
According to Bloomberg's Mark Gurman, Apple plans to ditch Qualcomm and build its own custom modem that could launch around 2026. MacRumors reports: Writing in his latest Power On newsletter, Gurman says that Apple's custom technology aspirations include integrating an in-house modem into its system-on-a-chip (SoC), which would eventually see the launch of MacBooks with built-in cellular connectivity. Gurman says Apple will "probably need two or three additional years to get that chip inside cellular versions of the Apple Watch and iPad -- and the Mac, once the part is integrated into the company's system-on-a-chip."
Apple has explored the possibility of developing MacBooks with cellular connectivity in the past. Indeed, the company reportedly considered launching a MacBook Air with 3G connectivity, but former CEO Steve Jobs said in 2008 that Apple decided against it, since it would take up too much room in the case. An integrated SoC would solve that problem. Gurman's latest newsletter also said some of Apple's other ongoing in-house chip projects include camera sensors, batteries, a combined Wi-Fi and Bluetooth chip that will eventually replace parts from Broadcom, Micro-LED displays for Apple devices, and a non-invasive glucose monitoring system.
Apple has explored the possibility of developing MacBooks with cellular connectivity in the past. Indeed, the company reportedly considered launching a MacBook Air with 3G connectivity, but former CEO Steve Jobs said in 2008 that Apple decided against it, since it would take up too much room in the case. An integrated SoC would solve that problem. Gurman's latest newsletter also said some of Apple's other ongoing in-house chip projects include camera sensors, batteries, a combined Wi-Fi and Bluetooth chip that will eventually replace parts from Broadcom, Micro-LED displays for Apple devices, and a non-invasive glucose monitoring system.
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btw we know what you want better than you do
Apple has always had that mentality. It's also why they're the first to ditch hardware, even if users still want it.
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btw we know what you want better than you do
Apple has always had that mentality. It's also why they're the first to ditch hardware, even if users still want it.
Still butthurt over that floppy drive, eh?
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Agreed. I bought my last Apple machine over a decade ago, despite owning many many of them prior; they've moved too far into the space of "your machine isn't really yours, and btw we know what you want better than you do".
And you think MS and Google aren't at least as bad?
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You are apparently unaware that people have been wishing cellular connectivity was built into their laptops for at least the past couple decades.
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You are apparently unaware that people have been wishing cellular connectivity was built into their laptops for at least the past couple decades.
The fuck for? Those that can afford that hardware who are bitching that much about connectivity have a celluar-chipped hotspot-enabled iPhone/iPad nearby. Or any number of dedicated hotspot devices that have been around for well over a decade now.
Bullshit excuses, are bullshit.
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Tethering allowances are invariably limited. HotSpots are subject to Wi-Fi interference and their own battery life you need to worry about. Built in cellular modems are huge in corporate settings. Just provision it (you can do this automatically with many MDMs) and your users have on the go Internet connectivity without having to think about it. As an added bonus, the device now has lost/stolen functionality anywhere there's cellular signal, so you can track its location to share with the relevant autho
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Tethering allowances are invariably limited.
I can relate. After getting fed up with the local cable internet service provider I decided to try cellular internet as a replacement. It worked out well enough so long as I stayed within what they allowed for hot spot data, depending on the month I might not hit that allowance or find myself with a week of throttled data. Not a huge deal because the throttled data was still more than enough for web browsing, e-mail, and streaming audio. It only sucked when I could not pare back the video resolution on
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Tethering allowances are invariably limited.
This is untrue.
I will concede that US cellular telcos do this to phones locked to their networks, but it's certainly not true of telcos in other countries.
Further, I would suspect that said telcos would be unable to tell the difference in traffic between native and tethered usage if you used an unlocked phone.
Just because YOU get screwed by your telco doesn't make it true for everyone.
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Tethering allowances are invariably limited.
This is untrue.
I will concede that US cellular telcos do this to phones locked to their networks, but it's certainly not true of telcos in other countries.
Further, I would suspect that said telcos would be unable to tell the difference in traffic between native and tethered usage if you used an unlocked phone.
Just because YOU get screwed by your telco doesn't make it true for everyone.
And just because you don't want something, doesn't mean it's a stupid idea.
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Tethering allowances are invariably limited. HotSpots are subject to Wi-Fi interference and their own battery life you need to worry about. Built in cellular modems are huge in corporate settings. Just provision it (you can do this automatically with many MDMs) and your users have on the go Internet connectivity without having to think about it. As an added bonus, the device now has lost/stolen functionality anywhere there's cellular signal, so you can track its location to share with the relevant authorities and/or remote wipe it with a few clicks.
Just because YOU don't see a use for something doesn't mean it's useless.
No doubt.
I remember the first time I saw someone with a Verizon PCMCIA Cellular card in their laptop. It was so cool to sed them sit in our booth at lunch and just get on the internet from a laptop just sitting in the table, back when smartphones weren't quite a thing, yet.
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You are apparently unaware that cellular connectivity has been an option on laptops for at least 15 years.
I have a - still viable - ThinkPad T60 from 2007 that has a dedicated space for a cellular modem (referred to as WWAN) on the motherboard, and this was by no means a one-off. The Dell laptop I'm using right now has similar.
Just because your preferred brand/vendor doesn't offer the feature, it doesn't follow that no-one else does.
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You are aware that laptops with cellular modems have been available for decades.
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The same way 911 works without a plan or even a sim card?
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Probably the same way the electricity meters at my house work. or the lifetime premium connectivity in my Tesla works: Apple buys some number of years of service for the SIMs that it builds into the devices. As long as Apple controls the data going over the wireless connection, it can limit it and hence get a low prices for the connectivity from a carrier.
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You have to choose,
1) live in a country like the US where you never know which nutjob politician is going to pass laws to help their campaign sugar daddies make money watching you (think Obama and his handing of the DOJ over to the RIAA and MPAA, or GWB signing off on "habeus corpus is more of a recommendation" bit)
2) Move somewhere who passes laws restricting the use of the tech.
The US is unhealthy because the whole country is paranoid. Try to think of the last day som
Lame excuse (Score:2)
>>Apple has explored the possibility of developing MacBooks with cellular connectivity in the past. Indeed, the company reportedly considered launching a MacBook Air with 3G connectivity, but former CEO Steve Jobs said in 2008 that Apple decided against it, since _it would take up too much room in the case._
3g patents are public knowledge, sounds like apple doesn't have the skill to follow the designs to build the modems.
Uh, how? (Score:3)
Apple has repeatedly failed to equip their cellular phones with in-house cellular modems, how are they going to do it in a macbook?
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Apple has repeatedly failed to equip their cellular phones with in-house cellular modems, how are they going to do it in a macbook?
It's not that they have failed, it's that they can't get the Q&A they expect, because it's not actually that easy to make a chip from scratch that will work on the hundreds of different cellular networks across the globe.
Starting with data only devices makes perfect sense. Were you around for the 4G and 5G rollouts? 4G/LTE was around for years before it started carrying voice (VoLTE) traffic. In fact, the first LTE devices on the market were not phones, but rather, data only devices like Wi-Fi Hot
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It's not that they have failed, it's that they can't get the Q&A they expect, because it's not actually that easy to make a chip from scratch that will work on the hundreds of different cellular networks across the globe.
Except that they didn't start from scratch.
Back in the 3G days, Apple second-sourced iPhone modem chips from Intel as well as Qualcomm.
Then came 4G, and Intel's efforts were decidedly sub-par... so Apple configured the superior Qualcomm parts to match the poor performance of the Intel chips, and handed Intel copious volumes of Qualcomm proprietary technical data so they could catch up.
Intel completely failed to do so and, eventually, sold their entire modem chip business a few years ago.
Would you like to
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By infringing on and stealing a lot of Qualcomms patents?
So where are the lawsuits?
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Apple presumably hopes to reach the point where they can cut Qualcomm off their bill of materials entirely; but if they are trying to justify
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If, hypothetically speaking, I had an uncompetitive cell modem with some combination of worse sensitivity or higher power draw shoving it in a laptop where there's a comparatively gigantic amount of room for antennas(in places the user doesn't wrap their hands around, as a bonus); and a comparatively ample battery would seem like a pretty attractive prospect to me.
Apple presumably hopes to reach the point where they can cut Qualcomm off their bill of materials entirely; but if they are trying to justify a functional-but-inferior line of modems during the time they are still tinkering with it laptops are probably favorable: much more favorable in terms of antennas, much more wiggle room to squeeze a little extra battery in if needed; and it counts as a new feature; rather than being heavily scrutinized vs. prior gen phones for any sign of regression, as has happened with previous attempts to displace Qualcomm parts in iphones.
Presumably doesn't hurt that, for reasons that have always been a little puzzling when you can get an entire (bad; but with full RF function) android phone for $50, PC OEMs typically treat cell modems as either a very fancy premium feature(for consumer models) or a specialty business feature(generally only available as standard on toughbooks and other remote/jobsite gear; and a fairly expensive custom option on more general road warrior business lines). I'm not sure whether it's a product segmentation thing driven by the OEMs; or whether Qualcomm is a real dick about pricing; but it's surprisingly consistent.
That gives Apple the choice to either match the trend, and scoop up some pretty juicy margins; or price less ambitiously and pick up a feature that's genuinely cheaper on their side than on the PC side; depending on which they think is more useful.
So, what do you think the increase in BOM Cost would be, if Apple just has sunk costs in the MODEM R&D? I assume there are still external RF stuff (amps, antenna switches, passives), plus antenna cost. So, what; $3-5 (max) at Apple's volumes?
If they aren't paying Qualcomm, it becomes kind of a no-brainer. One more set of Standards-Testing for new/updated Macs; but Apple has that stuff down.
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Apple has repeatedly failed to equip their cellular phones with in-house cellular modems, how are they going to do it in a macbook?
While my reaction was the same at first it is worth remembering a cellular modem is *FAR* more critical for the performance of a phone than a laptop. You can get away with a very sub standard cell modem with poor thermal performance and power management in a laptop. In a phone the cell modem's performance is key to a large number of performance metrics of the device itself.
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Apple bought Intel's modem business. Intel's modems were shit. They performed noticeably worse than the competition, to the point where Apple slowed down the Qualcomm modems so that people who got an Intel one wouldn't complain.
It looks like they haven't been able to catch up, as they haven't switched exclusively to their own modems.
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Indeed, but they may be *good enough* for a laptop which doesn't define its entire device performance based on the modem. Unlike a cellphone.
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Apple has repeatedly failed to equip their cellular phones with in-house cellular modems, how are they going to do it in a macbook?
While my reaction was the same at first it is worth remembering a cellular modem is *FAR* more critical for the performance of a phone than a laptop. You can get away with a very sub standard cell modem with poor thermal performance and power management in a laptop. In a phone the cell modem's performance is key to a large number of performance metrics of the device itself.
Good points!
IIRC, Apple almost put their MODEMS in the iPhone 15; so maybe their MODEM is already good enough for a laptop application.
From 5 days ago:
https://news.yahoo.com/apple-5... [yahoo.com]
From earlier this year:
https://www.cnet.com/tech/mobi... [cnet.com]
So, an interim laptop design, where it's less critical, might be a good way for Apple to get some field experience without risking killing the golden goose by putting it in an iPhone. . .
Plus, Apple when they change over to "Apple Silicon" MODEMs, they will want a few yea
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Apple has repeatedly failed to equip their cellular phones with in-house cellular modems, how are they going to do it in a macbook?
They bought Intel's cellular MODEM patents and designs a few years ago, and have been modernizing them and getting the performance up.
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Just another piece of crap technology to turn off by default and make sure it stays off.
Are you kidding? I've been wanting to see cellular modems in Apple laptops for years. Activation locks have made laptop theft less profitable, but built-in cellular modems would mean being able to track them in real time and bust the people who steal them. IMO, that's a huge win.
Also, not having to tether to your phone would be kind of nice, if only for battery reasons.
Of course, the device I most want cellular modems to be part of is their upcoming Vision Pro — a device that will probably end up t
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Then again, you'd also think they'd make the Vision Pro run Mac apps, given how easy that should be.
Um, I'm pretty sure the Vision Pro will have its hands full being a Vision Pro to the point where running a Mac in a VM (or do you want yet another fork of macOS?) would have pretty lackluster performance, and even less impressive battery life(!).
Edging out Broadcom with in-house ASIC modems (Score:2)
I can see it now.... (Score:1)
Similar to how BMW is monetizing on heated seats being a monthly subscription (source [cnn.com]). Apple will use the cellular connection to disable extra "features" remotely.