Apple Says It 'Expects To Make' App Store Policy Changes Due To EU DMA (techcrunch.com) 72
Apple has bowed to the inevitable and said it "expects to make" App Store policy changes to comply with EU's Digital Markets Act (DMA). From a report: The iPhone-maker has updated the language pertaining to its risk factors in the fiscal year 2023 Form 10-K filing, with the revised text presenting a shift from the company's previous position, indicating a more definitive stance on potential modifications to the App Store policies. Apple said that future changes could also affect how the company charges developers for access to its platforms; how it manages distribution of apps outside of the App Store; and "how, and to what extent, it allows developers to communicate with consumers inside the App Store regarding alternative purchasing mechanisms."
Uniformity? (Score:2)
Will this change be uniform across all instances of the Apple AppStore? Or only the instance that appears for customers in the EU?
Imagine the webmaster h3ll of having to manage web instances unique to certain government geographies due to diverse regulations.
Hopefully the change will be uniform since the TC article is not exactly clear on the breadth of these changes.
The TC article suggests that Apple is not clear on these changes right now because these are "future changes".
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Why should everyone be crippled by EU-only requirements?
Re:Uniformity? (Score:4, Insightful)
Why should everyone be crippled by EU-only requirements?
I think the plan is to actually un-cripple the Apple app ecosystem. If you don't want to leave the walled garden, nobody will force you to.
Can you imagine if you could only buy Windows apps through the Microsoft Store? Real Slashdotters would be outraged. Not sure what has happened to the current crop, but it is sad.
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Can you imagine if you could only buy Windows apps through the Microsoft Store? Real Slashdotters would be outraged. Not sure what has happened to the current crop, but it is sad.
macOS doesn't work that way. The better comparison is with Android, which does make side-loading possible, but it is very definitely not the default assumption. How many non-techies do you know that side-load APKs? How many do you know that could tell you what an APK is?
This was foreseeable in the oughts when both iOS and Android came onto the scene. Both used privacy and security models that were previously unheard of. How many times did you have to approve individual levels of access (e.g., camera
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Why should everyone be crippled by EU-only requirements?
I think the plan is to actually un-cripple the Apple app ecosystem. If you don't want to leave the walled garden, nobody will force you to.
Can you imagine if you could only buy Windows apps through the Microsoft Store? Real Slashdotters would be outraged. Not sure what has happened to the current crop, but it is sad.
You must be new here, /.ers have always gobbled at the cock of Apple. No indignity is too great to suffer for their fanboyism.
You are quite right, if Microsoft or Google did half the restrictive stuff Apple does, they'd be screaming bloody murder.
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With the App Store restrictions, why would any company put their app their as opposed to "Go to our website to side load our app"
You mean like we do with real computers and not toy computers?
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Also, let's not kid ourselves. The toy computers now in this respect are the laptops and desktops. Phones have far more information with far more value than your 90s era tower sitting on your desk not doing anything interesting. Your phone has health data, location data, a 24/7 mic and camera in your vicinity at practically all times. You take it with you to the shitter. So yeah. Exactly. I want my phone as safe as I can be, and I like paying A
Re:Uniformity? (Score:4, Informative)
Exactly. I want my phone as safe as I can be, and I like paying Apple extra to vet the applications I run to abide by their policies which are I think reasonable.
Nothing stopping you from continuing to do that. This is not about forcing the lowest common denominator of users to change, simply about allowing them to if they choose. Most Android users never sideload anything either, but they do have that freedom if they want to.
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Publishers will stop you. Perhaps you have an app to watch streaming TV. Right now there are limits to what they can do because Apple. Now they could easily force you to install their shitty third party app store if you want to watch the stream
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Perhaps you have an app to watch streaming TV. Right now there are limits to what they can do because Apple.
Because Apple gets kickbacks from some select streaming TV providers? I don't want Google or Apple curating my TV options TBH.
Likewise, perhaps you have a banking app, and they love data to sell, but again, Apple requires disclosure.
You have shitty banks then. That is not a problem that should be left to cell phone makers to fix.
Re: Uniformity? (Score:2)
Most Android users never sideload anything
Most Android users don't even participate in any mobile software market. The problem isn't rooted in users choosing to get software from anywhere, it's in software vendors normalizing getting software from just anywhere and raising the same malware problems Windows has always had.
If it's not a problem for you and your superior software vendor vetting capabilities, then good for you, iOS has healthy competition, but clearly it's a problem for many users.
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Most Android users don't even participate in any mobile software market.
Not sure where you get that idea. Most Android users get software from the Google Play Store. Even with sideloads available, few people use them. Certainly no indication of it becoming normalized as you say. Seems like an imaginary problem.
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This is not about forcing the lowest common denominator of users to change, simply about allowing them to if they choose.
And when my Bank's app requires being sideloaded because they don't want to abide by the rules?
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Also, let's not kid ourselves. The toy computers now in this respect are the laptops and desktops. Phones have far more information with far more value than your 90s era tower sitting on your desk not doing anything interesting.
My computer has everything that qualifies as "work" on it. My phone has only stuff that qualifies as "entertainment" or "personal" on it. The economic impact is not the same. The worst that could come from stealing my phone is that people see the photos I've taken on my phone and have access to a bunch of accounts that I can also access on my computer. The worst that could come from stealing my computer is en masse exfiltration of confidential information from my employer. The two are not the same. Th
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My computer has everything that qualifies as "work" on it. My phone has only stuff that qualifies as "entertainment" or "personal" on it
If you try to sign up for a Microsoft Business 365 account, the first thing it tells you to do is download the Authenticator app. If this is true for you, you are the exception, not the rule. Most people organize their lives on their smartphone.
My laptop also has location data and a 24/7 mic and camera in my vicinity more often than not.
Your laptop isnt running 24/7 with a constant connection to the internet.
Some of us have been advocating an impossible-to-disable mechanical interlock for cameras and microphones for the past couple of decades.
Here here. But alas, most smart phones do not have this.
And nothing prevents you from refusing to download apps that aren't available from Apple's store.
Apps figuring out a workaround the App Store rules and vacating it because its not worth the hassle will prevent me from downloading on
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My computer has everything that qualifies as "work" on it. My phone has only stuff that qualifies as "entertainment" or "personal" on it
If you try to sign up for a Microsoft Business 365 account, the first thing it tells you to do is download the Authenticator app.
Your first mistake was renting software. From there, it's all downhill.
If this is true for you, you are the exception, not the rule. Most people organize their lives on their smartphone.
Weird. I don't know a single person who does, with the possible exception of using them as an easy way to access their calendars when they aren't at their computer.
My laptop also has location data and a 24/7 mic and camera in my vicinity more often than not.
Your laptop isnt running 24/7 with a constant connection to the internet.
Between my work laptop and my personal laptop, they're running for at least 12 hours a day during the week....
And nothing prevents you from refusing to download apps that aren't available from Apple's store.
Apps figuring out a workaround the App Store rules and vacating it because its not worth the hassle will prevent me from downloading on the App Store. When the first big apps do it, the smaller apps will catch on. If there was always a guarantee of an App Store approved alternative, I wouldn't worry and would advocate for side-loading capability. But my fear is big companies we rely on saying fuck no to the App Store, effectively ending its security practice.
That's just not very realistic, though. Android has allowed side-loading and multiple app stores from the very beginning, yet the vast majority of software still ge
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Your laptop isnt running 24/7 with a constant connection to the internet.
Unless a tree fell on a cable, yes it is.
Silly comment.
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Phones have far more information with far more value than your 90s era tower sitting on your desk not doing anything interesting. Your phone has health data, location data, a 24/7 mic and camera in your vicinity at practically all times. You take it with you to the shitter.
My 90s era tower (and my 2023 laptop) had (has) my entire financial life on it. Quicken was a thing 40 years ago, it sucks ass today, but there are equivalent Personal Finance Managers. If you use one correctly your entire financial life is in there. Private correspondence in the form of e-mail and (crazy concept) snail mail letters was on my 90s era tower. My journal was on my 90s era tower. A handful of personal photos I scanned were on there. When I got a digital camera ALL my photos were on there.
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I thought real computers got all their software from a central repository via apt.
In any case, on Android we enjoy a choice of app stores, including F-Droid which is exclusively free (open source) software. Some apps on F-Droid are available on Google Play too, but often have extra features that Google doesn't allow. Sometimes they have fewer features, because the F-Droid version doesn't use Google Play Services.
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I thought real computers got all their software from a central repository via apt.
In any case, on Android we enjoy a choice of app stores, including F-Droid which is exclusively free (open source) software. Some apps on F-Droid are available on Google Play too, but often have extra features that Google doesn't allow. Sometimes they have fewer features, because the F-Droid version doesn't use Google Play Services.
Building from source is another option, but IME most people still primarily use their distro's repo on Linux as well. I have F-Droid on my phone also. The more options the better. I just don't get the argument that Apple products must remain geared primarily to stupid people.
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It is really nice to know my Bank of America app wont steal my data
They already have all your banking data. If you are worried about BoA stealing your data you already have much bigger problems.
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I don't need them taking pictures of what I wear or analyzing who im in proximity to in real time.
Sideloaded apps will use the same APIs to ostensibly protect you from that as official ones. It is the APIs that provide privacy, not the app store.
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The App Store stops you from using certain APIs or hardware direct calls. If you didnt have to pass the App Store, you could make an app do terrible horrible things.
An application marketplace seems an exceptionally poor place to enforce programmatic access control. I've seen security through obscurity but you have security through bureaucracy instead?
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Kernels can be pretty secure, but none are absolutely secure. Even iOS. For proof, look at MacOS which shares the same kernel (XNU a part of Darwin) as iOS. Not to mention you also have to secure every component driver and tech you implement, from the Qualcomm modem to the Camera, the bluetooth and wifi chip, the USB interface, etc... there is a lot to do with security. It isnt a matter of just "well, stop the progra
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with iOS devices, the payday for an attack is very high. Governments would pay fortunes, and marketers would pay even bigger fortunes for access to that kind of data.
Indeed. That is why the App Store did not protect people from Pegasus et al.
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With the App Store restrictions, why would any company put their app their as opposed to "Go to our website to side load our app", which will invariably be more profitable for them since they will be able to siphon out all your data or worse?
Ask Epic how it goes to self-host on a mobile device. Sure, people were using it but they wanted more money so put it up on the play store and then sued Google over it all.
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That an App comes from a different store, does not give it more rights/privileges than if it came from Apple's App Store. How would it?
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I agree with you; EU requirements would be the lowest common denominator but also be the simplest for Apple to implement.
Apple could claim that everyone is treated the same, there is no discrimination in their rules. So that should hinder any lawsuits on that basis.
Alternatively, Apple could implement an EU-specific instance of their AppStore - just for EU customers.
If "creative users" find a "red pill" out of that "walled garden" into the freedom of the real world, it's not because Apple did not make reaso
it may be to late and side loading may be forced (Score:2)
it may be to late and side loading may be forced
Re: Uniformity? (Score:2)
Nobody is going to force you to turn on sideloading. Even if they did you wouldn't have to use it. Unless of course you are such a child that you can't not push the button, which I could believe. If someone doesn't prevent you from shooting your foot by taking away the trigger you will of course do that.
I have zero sideloaded apps on my android phone. I do however have smart tube next on my Google TV. If it were an Apple TV (shudder) I wouldn't have that choice. Someone else would decide for me like you nee
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Apple, computers for infants. I wonder why they don't use that as their slogan?
I bought an iPad over an Android tablet for my elderly parents because they were indeed less likely to fuck it up. I don't think we should base all our human endeavours on that premise though.
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I have zero sideloaded apps on my android phone.
Android is less restrictive, so for example you can get a decent browser with effective privacy protections without sideloading. But also, might I recommend F-Droid? It does have a lot of useful stuff. For small utilities, they're often less sketchy than the ad-supported crap on the app store.
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Last time I was using F-Droid the store app crapped itself and stopped working. I couldn't install or update anything.
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Lol well that sucks.
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History suggests that US users won't be able to enjoy the freedoms that EU users get. Look at the situation with personal data - companies harvesting and selling your data is seen almost as a force of nature in the US, something you both expect and can do nothing about. Where are in the EU we have fairly strong protections.
So don't worry, Apple won't give you the nice things that EU citizens enjoy.
Re:fuck the EU, blow it up already. (Score:5, Insightful)
The USA is currently about 18% of the world's GDP.
The USA depends on the rest of the world, without the world the USAs GDP would plummet.
Just remember "MAGA" attitudes can be applied by any country, there is no special exemption for US products. In fact if the USA becomes too obnoxious and pushy they could lose access to the 96% of the population that is NOT in the USA.
The USA also needs to understand, just as other countries and Nationalities have to obey US law when in the USA, the USA also has to obey local laws in other countries.
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Their country, their rules.Loss of US tech will enable the EU to have a stronger local market which will allow them to compete internationally against the USA.
Feel free to stupid yourselves and Make American worse.
Why is Apple being vague? (Score:2)
From the article...
Apple said that future changes could also affect how the company charges developers for access to its platforms; how it manages distribution of apps outside of the App Store; and “how, and to what extent, it allows developers to communicate with consumers inside the App Store regarding alternative purchasing mechanisms.”
Emphasis/bold/italic mine...
Apple know these changes are coming and will affect them in the mentioned ways. Why be vague? Is it a trend? Main steam media hou
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Oh no, these changes might affect our poor widdle 3 Trillion dollar company. You there, good iFanBoy, go make a stink so the EU changes its mind!
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A scare tactic.
Oh no, these changes might affect our poor widdle 3 Trillion dollar company. You there, good iFanBoy, go make a stink so the EU changes its mind!
Fuck you.
Apple Users Do! Not! Want!
Ask them. I dare you to find 1 in 1000 that thinks this is a "problem that needs solved". And that "1" has already voted with their feet and switched to Android!
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Citation required instead of the ravings of a paid apple shill.
Citation Required that I am a paid Apple Shill.
Works both ways, Imbecile.
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I think it is code for "goodbye to the ridiculously cheap $99/year dev license fee", and probably something like "we get x% of your revenue over this threshold" for a dev license, like with whatever those graphics engines are that have everyone screaming.
This is arguably worse - having an effectively zero dev license fee made basically zero barrier to entry to new companies making apps. Now it's going to take some higher up-front cost.
The big software devs will love it, but all the upstarts are going to hav
dev fee being an % of your gross + need to give da (Score:2)
dev fee being an % of your gross + needing to give that data to apple will lead an big time smack down from the EU. Likely side loading with no dev fee needed to put an app out + maybe even apple must give the keys out to load custom roms
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Are those fee structures illegal for Unity in the EU? That's exactly Unity's pricing model...is it different in the EU?
Coming Soon To Slashdot. . . (Score:2)
The Article breathlessly exclaiming how there has been an inexplicable, dramatic rise in Malware on iOS/iPadOS, and how "iOS is no more Secure than Android".
Thanks, Fuckers. Drag everyone down into your own cesspool. . .
About 0.000001% of Apple Users actually want this; and no, it isn't just as simple as "Then just don't use Third Party App Stores". Not by a long shot!
Why? Trust. A lifetime to build; seconds to destroy.
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And if you could take you moronic apple fanboy hat off you might actually see this has nothing to do with users and does not affect them in any way. This is about developers and application owners and how they interact with the apple devices and the store. Perhaps if you asked users would you like the prices on the App store to be significantly reduced or your favourite app owner not to be raped repeatedly by apple you might get a different answer.
Sorry, COWARD, you're wrong.
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Of course it is as simple as that.
If you do not use another app store, but stick to the Apple App Store, how could you be affected?
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Of course it is as simple as that.
If you do not use another app store, but stick to the Apple App Store, how could you be affected?
If you don't get it, you just don't get it.
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And if you can not explain it in 3 sentences, you know nothing about it.
So, seems we are kind of equal in our ignorance ...
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And if you can not explain it in 3 sentences, you know nothing about it.
So, seems we are kind of equal in our ignorance ...
The inevitable increase in malware will quickly ruin Apple's deserved reputation as "safer and more private"; thus eroding marketshare, depressing stock price, which will cause more developers to abandon the platform, yada yada.
So, howabout one sentence?
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Oki one sentence:
What has the availability of a "side loading store" to do with loading software only from the Apple Store?
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Oki one sentence:
What has the availability of a "side loading store" to do with loading software only from the Apple Store?
As I said:
The inevitable increase in malware will quickly ruin Apple's deserved reputation as "safer and more private"; thus eroding marketshare, depressing stock price, which will cause more developers to abandon the platform, yada yada.
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The Apple App Store won't have mallware ...
It is the same as before.
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The Apple App Store won't have mallware ...
It is the same as before.
The Apple App Store won't have mallware ...
It is the same as before.
I will attempt to Clarify. Read Carefully, and Contemplate the following:
The inevitable overall increase in instances of malware on the Apple Platform, will quickly ruin Apple's deserved reputation as the "safer and more private" Platform; thus eroding marketshare of the Apple Platform, depressing Apple's stock price, which will cause more developers to abandon the Apple Platform, thus eroding marketshare of the Apple Platform even more, further depressing Apple's stock price, which will cause even more dev
Re: Coming Soon To Slashdot. . . (Score:2)
Like you he's a moron, but unlike you he's not property of Apple.
https://youtube.com/watch?v=sd... [youtube.com]
And how did that play out?
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Yes, because now it is a first time you made a coherent and clear statement :P
However, I guess it won't surprise you: I do not agree.
Developers do not just simply switch platforms. Neither do users.
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Yes, because now it is a first time you made a coherent and clear statement :P
However, I guess it won't surprise you: I do not agree.
Developers do not just simply switch platforms. Neither do users.
Users, not so much; but I have been an Apple User since 1976, and a Mac User since it was a Lisa. I am here to tell you that Developers are far, far less Platform-Loyal.
Once the "Windows Virus" infects a Mac-Only Developer, say, Intuit, and their Board of Directors starts tasting Sales Numbers beyond their wildest dreams of Avarice, they tend to lose interest in further Mac Development. Next version is Released, and a few new Features are Windows-Only (for no reason). Next, A New Windows Version is Released