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EU Deal on Single Mobile Charging Port Likely June 7 in Setback for Apple (reuters.com) 151

Posted by msmash from the up-next dept.
EU countries and EU lawmakers are set to agree on a common charging port for mobile phones, tablets and headphones on June 7 when they meet to discuss a proposal that has been fiercely criticised by Apple, Reuters reported Friday, citing people familiar with the matter said. From the report: The proposal for a single mobile charging port was first broached by the European Commission more than a decade ago after iPhone and Android users complained about having to use different chargers for their phones. The former is charged from a Lightning cable while Android-based devices are powered using USB-C connectors. The trilogue next Tuesday will be the second and likely the final one between EU countries and EU lawmakers on the topic, an indication of a strong push to get a deal done, the people said.
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EU Deal on Single Mobile Charging Port Likely June 7 in Setback for Apple More

EU Deal on Single Mobile Charging Port Likely June 7 in Setback for Apple

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  • Why?! (Score:3)

    by Acum Amcum ( 6208780 ) on Friday June 03, 2022 @10:06AM (#62589614)
    Why are laptops exempt from this rule? I don't get it.

    • Probably because power requirements differ so greatly. A low end laptop is going to require significantly less power to charge than a high end gaming laptop. In the end you would have to have a single brick for all laptops, raising the cost for even low end laptops. Cell phones don't have that much variation in charging requirements so easier to standardize.

      • USB-pd can do 240 watts.

        You can cover pretty much all laptops with the same port, and have different powered bricks (just like how phones, tablets, and yes laptops all can use the same port now).

        My laptop will even charge with a 20w brick that also fast charges my phone and do fine for my typical day of work, or a 60w brick which I may need if I'm running it hard constantly.

        There really is no reason not to include laptops in this.

        • I think that will apply in the future hopefully but I don't believe there are laptops or gear to take advantage of that just yet or it's just becoming available to consumers in the last few months.

          Also considering the shoddy state of USB-PD cables currently (lot's of unsafe ones out there, especially at high wattages, the labeling system is a mess at the moment) I don't think the industry is quite there yet.

          I do agree that is the dream though, having all mobile electronics on one standard will be amazing.

          • Re: (Score:2)

            by AvitarX ( 172628 )

            It applies to the last two laptops I've used (13 inch MacBook pro from years ago and a current HP).

            I agree that bad cables are a problem, just like shoddy third party power bricks of the past, I'm not sure how to fix that long running problem of laptop power supplies.

            • Yeah the T480 I've been using for years uses it and I use an anker power supply at home to the pieces are there for a good majority of models I just don't know if it's as easily enforceable as it is for phones.

              My dream really is USB standardizing a magnetic connector for laptops or Apple just letting everyone use there's. For laptops it's just superior imo.

        • Sounds like laptop manufacturers are all on board with USB c charging, so they don't need to legislate it
      • A low end laptop is going to require significantly less power to charge than a high end gaming laptop.

        A Hyundai Elantra has significantly less power than a Ford F150, yet both have identical gas tank openings.

    • What MightyMartian said.

      And what happens when they standardize on a chunky connector like old school Dell laptops (7mm?) and technology advances allow making an airweight notebook that is able to be only 6mm thick? Better laptop couldnt happen in that scenario.

      And it actually did happen in the Dell world. Some airweight notebooks and tablets required a smaller barrel plug. And if you wanted to use a standard 7mm charger you'd have to use a converter cable.

      Now they've moved to being powered via USB-C so i

      • I generally support open standards, but think the EU would have done well to mandate that all phones must use charging ports that use open, freely-licensed specifications. USB-C seems decent for now, but it's going to be really hard to move to something better when that emerges as phones that use the better standard won't be sold in a whole chunk of the world.

        • Re: (Score:2)

          by afidel ( 530433 )

          Just like the original law called for micro-USB, if technology comes along and there's a new superior plug format that would make sense to use to supplant USB-C then there will be a new updated law passed. For the next decade or more I think USB-C will be fine for phones, 240W and 80Gbps is going to be enough for quite some time.

          • Re: (Score:3, Insightful)

            by grahamsz ( 150076 )
            True, but how will we settle on a replacement standard when there's now a legislative boat-anchor tying the world to USB-C? I like the EU for lots of things, but they aren't exactly known for being responsive.

        • Re: (Score:3, Insightful)

          by SvnLyrBrto ( 62138 )

          USB-C is nice, sure. But by your standard, Lightning would have been outlawed in favor of Micro-USB. And other than âoe it wasnâ(TM)t invented by Apple,â no on Iâ(TM)ve ever asked has EVER been able to conjure up a rationale for how micro-USB is technologically superior to lightning and how lightning should be banned based on micro-USBâ(TM)s supposed merit, verses ideological purity. Never mind the fact that so many people have screamed bloody murder about hating USC-C that Apple ha

        • USB-C seems decent for now, but it's going to be really hard to move to something better when that emerges as phones that use the better standard won't be sold in a whole chunk of the world.

          I can't imagine a phone will ever emerge that can't be charged with USB-C.

          USB-C is a standard that negotiates the charging voltage with the device. If needed, future phones/chargers can negotiate a higher voltage between themselves while maintaining backwards compatibility with today's devices.

    • Why are laptops exempt from this rule? I don't get it.

      I don't know, I haven't followed the negotiations. It might be the negotiators wanted to start with smaller, cheaper, shorter lifetime devices first. I replace bluetooth headsets far more frequently than I do laptops. And I have 2-3 headsets at any one time but only one laptop.

      That being said, my current laptop charges just fine via USB-C (although it also has a more traditional 2.5x5 mm power port). It's not that manufacturers can't make USB-C charging laptops, they're just not required. Not yet. If custom

    • Re: (Score:2)

      by gweihir ( 88907 )

      They probably will be next.

    • Re: (Score:2)

      by Z00L00K ( 682162 )

      We have laptops at work with USB-C charging connectors and that's the most frequently broken feature on them now. Later generation Dell laptops.

  • Implementation will be interesting (Score:5, Insightful)

    by Registered Coward v2 ( 447531 ) on Friday June 03, 2022 @10:11AM (#62589630)
    Apple has started the move with iPads so Is suspect adding it to iPhones may not be all that big of a move; although Apple could very well go wireless by the time the directive is mandatory. One interesting thing is the proposal essentially mandates a USB-C connector but leaves open, other than basic charging setups, customization so an Apple cord could very well have special pinouts taht means any USB C cord may not be 100% equivalent and be a repeat of the "charge only" Lightening cables.

    • Dude, there's a published USB-C Standard. [usb.org]

      Apple and the rest will either have to be in compliance or not.

      • Dude, there's a published USB-C Standard. [usb.org]

        Apple and the rest will either have to be in compliance or not.

        True, but if you read the EU proposal (using EN IEC 62680-1-3:2021) it only appears to address the receptacle and connector and PD; which is why I said it depends on how it is implemented. USB Spec you did allows for vendor specific implementations of some features, if I read it correctly. It appears teh EU is only going for power compatibility and not full compatibly across cabals and devices. Time will tell.

        • Re: (Score:2)

          by AmiMoJo ( 196126 )

          USB PD does specify a standard for the cables and the protocol. Apple could gimp it by limiting charging to 7.5W without a special Apple cable or charger, but since they have already adopted PD for the iPad and their laptops that doesn't seem likely.

    • so an Apple cord could very well have special pinouts taht means any USB C cord may not be 100% equivalent and be a repeat of the "charge only" Lightening cables

      There's little point to that I would think. Many of the cell phone hardware providers are moving away from the plug it up to your computer to transfer stuff onto the device and offering cloud services for one to move data to instead. It still exists, don't get me wrong, but makers are adding hoops at rapid fire pace to the whole process. If anything, moving to a "mandated" USB-C gives Apple a patsy to blame when they say, "Oh so sorry, but we removed data transfer ability from the port since it was so sl

      • So given that the assumed attitude. Why even have the ability to transfer data any longer over a cable?

        If you're going to have data connections on the port, which they will for the purpose of being able to use peripherals, then there's no good reason not to have data transfer.

      • Re: (Score:2)

        by Burdell ( 228580 )

        Nothing technical stops them from mounting the device as a block data device.

        Android started out with that, but it was a huge PITA, so we got MTP. The problem with block mounting is that none of the commonly-used filesystems support multi-access, so when you attached your phone to your computer to transfer things, all the apps that might access the storage had to be stopped and blocked from running.

        The devices I've transferred files from in recent times haven't had any trouble with MTP. My several-year-old phone even was fast enough that it showed that my monitor's USB3 ports aren't

    • This is not an issue for Apple. iPhones can be charged wirelessly. It is an ineffective policy if it exempts laptops. It might raise process for some cheaper devices which depends on micro usb.
      • Because it's not perfect it's useless? An odd argument. I suspect you'll find that laptops are next anyway.

        • Re: (Score:2)

          by fermion ( 181285 )
          The premise of the post was that it would mostly hurt apple. Apple will have some physical issues putting USD C on the phone, but will lose no sales if they go wireless.

          Moving from micro USB to USB however could increase the cost of some low end Android phones, which can cost as little as $200. We saw this with PCs in the old days where fast interfaces like SCSCI were seldom implemented as USB 1.1 was the standard for a very long time,

          The cost saving would be in the laptop market. This is where various

          • I don't think the EU draft regulation allows an exemption for wireless charging, so Apple would lose sales if they don't implement the standard connector on their phone.

            SCSI was around long before USB 1.1 . It wasn't standard equipment on PCs, but I had SCSI cards in mine in the early to mid 1990s before the first USB 1.0 draft .

            SCSI and USB both share a history of having a large variety of connector/cable types. I still have a drawer of SCSI cables in my garage with Centronics, HD50, HD68, VHDCI, SCA just

    • Re: (Score:2)

      by DrXym ( 126579 )
      I definitely think going wireless is the sort of dick move Apple would pull to avoid being subject to the regulation. So the regulation has to anticipate that and make the device have a USB-C charge port and/or provide rules for wireless chargers, e.g. standardized non-discretionary charging protocols and form factors.

      • I definitely think going wireless is the sort of dick move Apple would pull to avoid being subject to the regulation. So the regulation has to anticipate that and make the device have a USB-C charge port and/or provide rules for wireless chargers, e.g. standardized non-discretionary charging protocols and form factors.

        If the remove the data port entirely...how will I plug it into my car to play music, etc?

        • If the remove the data port entirely...how will I plug it into my car to play music, etc?

          You would use bluetooth, of course. This is the way most people connect their phone to their car now. Even cheapass JVC head units have bluetooth, and so do all the in-vehicle infotainment systems.

          • You would use bluetooth, of course. This is the way most people connect their phone to their car now. Even cheapass JVC head units have bluetooth, and so do all the in-vehicle infotainment systems.

            There is a VERY noticeable drop in audio quality using bluetooth vs the wired connection.

            • There is a VERY noticeable drop in audio quality using bluetooth vs the wired connection.

              That's not a law, there are good codecs these days. If your infotainment system and/or phone doesn't support them that's unfortunate, but it's not bluetooth's fault. Hyundai now supports AAC [hyundaimotorgroup.com] for example.

              (I found some other articles about how some other automakers also support some improved audio codecs like aptX, but I couldn't read the actual articles because the content didn't appear without Javascript, and I don't care enough to enable it for this so I guess those companies don't get any free advertising

              • That's not a law, there are good codecs these days. If your infotainment system and/or phone doesn't support them that's unfortunate, but it's not bluetooth's fault. Hyundai now supports AAC for example.

                Hmm..so, every time they change a standard, I'm supposed to go buy a new car?

                • Hmm..so, every time they change a standard, I'm supposed to go buy a new car?

                  If your complaint is that automakers' infotainment systems are typically hopelessly out of date by the time they reach the market, it's valid. Neither they nor Apple cares, though. If your stereo has a line input then you can use a bluetooth receiver module instead. That way you know you're getting a standard compatible with your phone.

                  • If your complaint is that automakers' infotainment systems are typically hopelessly out of date by the time they reach the market, it's valid. Neither they nor Apple cares, though. If your stereo has a line input then you can use a bluetooth receiver module instead. That way you know you're getting a standard compatible with your phone.

                    Thank you for the suggestion, I'd not come across anything like that will look for it when the time comes.

                    Oh I know the auto infotainment systems grow old VERY quickly...an

            • When your car is in motion, with traffic/tire/road noise, it's harder to tell the difference, though. If it's an EV and parked, yes one can usually tell.

              I prefer wired also. I use USB stick with WMA lossless files in my Volt. Unfortunately there is a hard limit around 650 albums and 10000 files which is much less than the stick has on it. And browsing albums on the car's screen is a poor experience. But still much better than using Bluetooth, a voice assistant, and trying to select an album on a smartphone.

    • Re: (Score:2)

      by gweihir ( 88907 )

      Not really. USB-C PD devices are standardized and there are certification labs. If Apple does try to get out of this in sneaky ways, they will simply be subject to that
      "5% of annual turnover" fine that the EU can hand out as long as needed. Not that I think Apple will be this stupid.

      • Not really. USB-C PD devices are standardized and there are certification labs. If Apple does try to get out of this in sneaky ways, they will simply be subject to that "5% of annual turnover" fine that the EU can hand out as long as needed. Not that I think Apple will be this stupid.

        The point is not PD or connector but that the proposal does not appear to address data transfer but allows configurations that would make cables device specific for non-charging applications. The spec basically, as I see it, only defines a bare minimum requirement that a cable must comply with; and allows multiple configurations of other pins.

        • Re: (Score:2)

          by gweihir ( 88907 )

          Will still be compatible. There _are_ PD cables that only have USB 2.0 in the data lines, for example. You are allowed to put in less, but you are _not_ allowed to put in anything incompatible and call it "USB" or "PD". The logos come with some legal assurances and these get defended at least if a large manufacturer abuses them. Also, Apple would become liable for any and all damage done.

          • Will still be compatible. There _are_ PD cables that only have USB 2.0 in the data lines, for example.

            You are allowed to put in less,

            As well as more, which means, despite some peoples' beliefs, though not necessarily yours, the EU standard does not create one cable to rule all, except for minimal PD requirements.

            but you are _not_ allowed to put in anything incompatible and call it "USB" or "PD". The logos come with some legal assurances and these get defended at least if a large manufacturer abuses them. Also, Apple would become liable for any and all damage done.

            My point was you can have a fully compliant cable that has features a bare minimally complaint doesn't, such as audio, and be compliant with the standard. There are also pins in the spec that allow for checking if a cable is certified for a manufacturer's device. Yet the cables will only be comp

            • It's fine if they implement it only for charging, since charging is the problem. It's likely that most people never plug their phone into their computer to transfer data any more anyway, and do it all through cloud services. I know I commonly do that even though I can plug in any time, the cable is sticking out from under my monitor, and that's even how I charge. But if the file isn't very big, then there's no reason to bother plugging in, and cycling the pins again (since they have a limited number of inse

  • Apple announces the new portless iPhone.

    • Re: (Score:2)

      by _xeno_ ( 155264 )

      It'll be interesting to see if they do that, especially because the newer iPads are all USB-C and Apple calls that a feature because the USB-C port offers more features than Lightning does. It seems like a foregone conclusion that USB-C is coming to iPhone given that it's all the Macs use now and the iPad uses it.

      But Apple is petty and spiteful enough that it wouldn't at all surprise me if they introduce a special European "no ports, only wireless charging" iPhone rather than use USB-C, even if the next mod

      • Whats the difficulty? The wireless charging pad could have a USB-C port as its primary or secondary connector. With power up to 240 watts coming soon, USB-C is fine to provide the power needed for wireless charging.

  • But they already have seen this coming and they already have a plan in place, it will be better for consumers (I think)

  • The former [iPhone] is charged from a Lightning cable while Android-based devices are powered using USB-C connectors.

    I just got issued a MacBook Pro by my employer, and guess what: it's all USB C.

    Before we criticize Apple for failing to keep up with modern standards, maybe we should give them some time to catch up with themselves.

    • I genuinely believe that Apple is addicted to the control of the accessory ecosystem and the licensing fees every manufacturer has to pay them to use lightning. They even have custom chips for external audio. This is not about their technology catching up, this is about forcing them to give up a fat revenue stream for the greater good.

      Note their control also allows them to precisely control what peripherals are made for the iPhone by choosing whom they license. This prevents folks from producing better th

      • Re: (Score:2)

        by brunes69 ( 86786 )

        Agree.

        The real frustration on all of this is that Lightning *IS* a superior physical connector to USB-C. It is more durable and has fewer delicate parts in the port. Lightning ports are easy to keep clean than USB-C.

        *All Apple had to do was to was open license the thing so that the USB consortium could use it.*. But they refuse, for the reasons you cite above.

        This is not about protecting the consumer, If it was, Apple would have let others use Lightning.

        • Re: (Score:2)

          by _xeno_ ( 155264 )

          The real frustration on all of this is that Lightning *IS* a superior physical connector to USB-C.

          You're kidding, right? Lightning connectors slowly destroy themselves if used for power due to the design. (This has something to do with the grounding pins being at the same level as the power pins, such that they both connect at the same time, which can cause a small spark when you plug the device in.) Lightning simply can't handle as much power as USB-C can - there's a reason Apple themselves use it to charge their own laptops.

          Apple themselves claim USB-C is superior to Lightning. They "upgraded" the iPa

          • Lightning connectors slowly destroy themselves if used for power due to the design. (This has something to do with the grounding pins being at the same level as the power pins, such that they both connect at the same time, which can cause a small spark when you plug the device in.)

            Nope. That will happen no matter how the pins are arranged. Whichever one is shorter gets the arc, polarity is wholly irrelevant. It's not caused by the connector, it's caused by the device being hungry for current at all times. Since USB-C has negotiation I hope it doesn't do that. Probably does.

            • Nope. That will happen no matter how the pins are arranged. Whichever one is shorter gets the arc, polarity is wholly irrelevant.

              Indeed though in principle, one could presumably have a short data pin. If that get disconnected, the device could stop drawing power. That would be neat.

  • Any legislation has got to anticipate what companies like Apple will do to weasel out of the regulation. They *will* use some lame solution like a dongle, DRM'd active cable / charger or proprietary protocol if they think they can get away with it so the legislation has to prevent that.

  • This looks like overreach on the part of the EU. If Apple were supplying equipment on government contracts, then the associated government has a perfect right to dictate what must be included and how it must work.

    Apple spent (likely, millions of) dollars developing their own proprietary cable connectivity to go with their proprietary cell phone. That's just like telling me that I have to get all red and white tablecloths and napkins for my restaurant instead of buying whatever supplies I want from whoeve

    • Re: (Score:2)

      by Luckyo ( 1726890 )

      You can dictate whatever you want elsewhere. EU isn't dictating what you use elsewhere. If apple wants to make a charge port that is unique to each port, where charge port is DRM'd and you need to pay apple to pair your device to each charger so it will accept charging from it, they're free to do that elsewhere. They can even use their standard justification of "safety, security" there. You don't want your phone to accept any charger, it may send too much charge down your phone, and cause it to burn because

    • Re: (Score:2)

      by ddtmm ( 549094 )
      It's nothing like what you describe at all. If you were comparing color of tablecloth vs color of cables then maybe. Tablecloth colors affect no one monetarily and doesn't affect the environment, or anything else for that matter. It's not like you need a tablecloth in order to eat. Now if you were forceably charging customers for tablecloths when they already had their own tablecloth, then I'd say that's wrong.

    • Yep - if this law had passed 15 years ago, we wouldn't have USB C for charging now.

    • Re: (Score:2)

      by gweihir ( 88907 )

      This looks like overreach on the part of the EU.

      It is not. The EU has asked manufacturers to reduce E-waste by coming up with a standard for a long time now. The manufacturers failed to do that, so they are now getting a regulatory requirement to get their head out of their backsides. There was ample warning, nothing happened, so now it gets regulated by law.

      And in actual reality, pretty much everybody has moved to USB-C PD already or is moving there, because it is a good standard that makes sense and works. Sure, you get USB-C PD PSUs that can do 3.5A a

  • I don't think Apple will cry too much about this. They seem to have been evolving away from Lightning and towards USB-C for years. I'm not sure they see much advantage to having proprietary connectors today.

    Problem is tomorrow. If some bright spark at Apple comes up with a better connector (fewer pins, magnetic rather than physical retainers, smaller, God only knows what), now they have a problem. They'd like to use the new connector, customers might actually like the improvement, but now they need to somehow negotiate with the EU first? And if they have to make it an industry standard first, where's the incentive for Apple to pay that bright spark to look into better connectors?

    USB-C and Lightning didn't just happen: people had to decide to spend money to bring them about. People will be less willing to spend the money if they have to share the benefit with everyone else in the industry and that means we'll see slower innovation. Do we care? Eh, I don't know. I thought micro USB was pretty good until I saw a Lightning connector. What's the next cool thing that we won't see?

    • Re: (Score:2)

      by drhamad ( 868567 )
      Agreed. I don't understand it. Standardization can be a good thing, but forcing it means a lack of new creations.

    • USB-C and Lightning didn't just happen: people had to decide to spend money to bring them about.

      All Apple had to do to keep their connector was license it to everyone else under FRAND terms but they weren't interested in that, they wanted to keep it unique and proprietary specifically for the purposes of lock-in and monopoly. They tightened their grasp too much for the EU, which is apparently not yet wholly under the control of corporate interests. Now they've burned their hand. Frankly though Apple will give zero shits. They got their money out of their proprietary connector. Now their customers are

    • Re:That's fine but I worry about the next interfac (Score:5, Insightful)

      by thegarbz ( 1787294 ) on Friday June 03, 2022 @02:58PM (#62590626)

      Problem is tomorrow.

      It's only a problem if you haven't read the proposal. The proposal includes periodic review to see if USB-C is still appropriate. The mandate doesn't mean that 10 years from now we'll still be using it.

      They'd like to use the new connector, customers might actually like the improvement, but now they need to somehow negotiate with the EU first?

      They can. There's nothing in this proposal that prevents other connectors or charging systems from existing on a device. But that would require two ports. And likely different looking ones which would trigger Apple's form over function engineers.

      • Re: (Score:2)

        by AmiMoJo ( 196126 )

        They will probably go to high power wireless charging. It has the added benefit of cooking the battery so the user has to buy a replacement sooner.

  • are they going to allow for an upgrade of standards? If that's not already in the language of the law, it's a big gaping flaw that should be addressed.

    Sure, I can totally see why making everyone use USB-C may be a good idea, but only if that standard is allowed to expire after a decade and make room for new technology. Otherwise, this just stifles innovation.

    Then again, the EU doesn't seem like the place where new technologies are being made. That's happening everywhere else.

    • Re: (Score:2)

      by gweihir ( 88907 )

      Then again, the EU doesn't seem like the place where new technologies are being made. That's happening everywhere else.

      Hahahaha, you need to start looking at reality there.

  • Thank g_d the people who brought us ever improving generations of charging ports, driven by competition, will now be tamed to heed the bureaucrats' superior vision of how their technology should work. This is a big win for consumers, who have had to put up with the likes of Google and Apple and their tone-deaf product designers.

    This is the brilliance of government. (Or is it a meta-government?)

    (The know-littles are taking control of the know-mores. Be afraid.)

  • So you throw it out and it lands in the ocean around some porpoise's neck.

  • What about power sources in general?

    - Power Tools

    - SLR Cameras

    - EV Bikes, cars etc.

    etc.

    We all know that every manufacturer wants to lock you into their 'system' by virtue of their battery packs. Why aren't we, as consumers, demanding standardization along with right-to-repair so that cheap cells can be replaced rather than buying expensive, custom power packs that are welded together?

  • ...Apple users will have to go out & buy new cables. Fingers crossed?
  • I had a pair of water resistant headphones (Aftershokz) for running and it had a micro-USB connector. Let's just say the jack didn't tolerate sweat very well. Lasted a little over a year.

    The next generation has a flush connector that is magnetically attached. Much better design as it rinses off very well.

    Of course, being Europe, we probably have to click a button to acknowledge we are using headphones and the connection might be monitored by the device.

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