Apple's Privacy Policies Are Keeping Data Scientists Away 117
An anonymous reader writes: The Cupertino-based global device giant is falling behind in the race to create 'predictive' services for smartphones because its privacy policies are too protective of the end-user. Data retention policies on user-centric information gathered into its Siri 'personal assistant' product is a reasonably generous six months, whilst information retained from the user's exploration of Apple Maps expires after only 15 minutes. As a consequence Apple's smartphones attempt to crunch a great deal of user-data locally rather than in the cloud.
Comment removed (Score:5, Insightful)
Re:I don't understand something (Score:5, Interesting)
Re: (Score:3, Interesting)
Does this imply Android users are being tracked heavily (like Win10) by these so-called data scientists?
Re:I don't understand something (Score:5, Insightful)
Why would you think that an advertising company would respect your privacy?
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It is not that simple I think.
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Yes.
https://maps.google.com/locationhistory/b/0
There is stuff in there I did *years* ago. You can turn it off. But you have to deliberately disable it in the phone and inside of the google settings. It is strictly opt-out.
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https://maps.google.com/locationhistory/b/0
There is stuff in there I did *years* ago.
If you don't like that, delete it. Cick on the settings icon (the little gear wheel) and click "Delete all location history." If you'd like you can download a copy of it first. That's in the same settings menu.
You can turn it off. But you have to deliberately disable it in the phone and inside of the google settings. It is strictly opt-out.
No, it's strictly opt-in. If it's on, it's because you turned it on.
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No, it's strictly opt-in. If it's on, it's because you turned it on.
BULL
FUCKING
SHIT
You're a liar and you should feel bad.
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No, it's strictly opt-in. If it's on, it's because you turned it on.
BULL
FUCKING
SHIT
You're a liar and you should feel bad.
I can support my assertion, can you?
http://www.androidcentral.com/understanding-googles-android-location-tracking
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I'm not buying "opt in", not in any meaningful sense of the word. It's on by default, and you need to take steps to turn it off. That makes it "opt out".
But if you buy, say, a Nexus branded device ... it comes with the "I hereby agree to be tracked" checked.
Calling it purely opt in is, as the GPO says, completely bullshit.
Just like it's bullshit to say all those people have decided "gee, I really need this ask.com toolbar" when they install Java.
But don't fucking pretend all those people go "gee, I need to
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It has at least an easy opt-out.
Re:I don't understand something (Score:4, Informative)
There is basically 3 levels. Do nothing. Which is fairly wide grained. Basically city level. Opt in which is about every 15-30 mins it signals in (more if you use something like google maps). Opt out. Where like you said you can go in and delete it. But you have to specifically turn it off. You have to go out of your way to make all the other apps not do it as well. The default is basically grab it when you open up something.
No, what you say is incorrect in several ways. Just to verify I grabbed a device and factory-reset it, then walked through the process. During setup, here's what I'm asked (with respect to location):
Let Google's location services help apps find your location quickly and accurately, which can reduce battery consumption. Anonymous location data will be sent to Google, even when no apps are running.
Improve location accuracy by allowing apps and services to scan for Wi-Fi networks and Bluetooth devices, even when Wi-Fi and Bluetooth are off.
I don't know whether you want to call that "opt in" or "opt out"... it's a forced decision.
Later in the setup process comes the Google Now prompt. If you sign up for Google now, it will turn on a lot of history, including, search and browsing activity, calendars, apps, music, battery life, sensor readings, location history and voice searches and commands. Again, it's a forced decision.
Having refused all of that, now if I go look at my location settings I see that I'm in mode "device only". If I tap on that, there are three levels: "High accuracy", which uses GPS, Wi-Fi, Bluetooth and cellular networks, "Battery saving" which uses Wi-Fi, Bluetooth and cellular only (no GPS), and "Device only", which uses only GPS. So you're right that there are three levels, but wrong about what they are. "Device only" isn't city-level, it's GPS-precise... but because GPS is a battery killer it's only on when apps specifically request it. "Battery saving" is the mode you called the lowest, which is coarse-grained but energy-efficient because it doesn't use GPS. "High accuracy" uses all of the efficient signals, plus kicks on the GPS when you need it.
None of that has anything to do with location history though. It's defines the precision of location data available to apps. It may also be sent to Google, but anonymized and not stored with your account.
Also in the location settings is "Google Location History". That is what controls whether location information is uploaded to Google, associated with your account and stored. It's completely separate from the location accuracy settings; you can turn it on while accuracy is set to "Device only" and it will upload your position whenever it actually knows it. That will be when you're using Maps or similar. Or you can turn it on with accuracy set to "Battery saving" and it will upload your location regularly, but not very precisely. Or you can use it with "High accuracy" and give Google highly-accurate history (which you can then use whenever you want, too).
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take a new android phone, create a new google account and boom you're opted in and logged in the browser too.
how the fuck is that opt out?
or wait... are you suggesting that logging in with a google account is logging in?
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no, the data scientists analyze the data once it's been collected. the heavy tracking is implemented by another department.
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"Data scientist", "Sanitation Engineer", why can't we call these people what they are? "Paid Busybody"
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The story makes me want to run out, and buy an Iphone
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The story makes me want to run out, and buy an Iphone
By design, as it were.
/. ; slow to pick on/up the ripe apples.
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Well, then you have to fix the Android update issue.
With a cloud service (which is what happens when data is shipped to a server and crunched there), you have acces
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Why is this written as if it was a negative thing?
I'd say it's due to the author's serf mentality.
Re:I don't understand something (Score:5, Interesting)
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This, plus they are a hardware company and don't trade in data.
Yes they are a hardware company that also control all their software, and care about their software and control of their software so much that they take perfectly good working software (like Google Maps), and decide to completely roll their own version. But they are fine because they are a hardware company. As such the hundreds of thousands of people who complained about Apple's product weren't really complaining because ... well it was a software issue right?
Calling Apple a hardware company is incredibly s
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Calling Apple a hardware company is incredibly short sighted.
Apple's always been a software company. They just happen to require hardware dongles, which they also sell :P
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and care about their software and control of their software so much that they take perfectly good working software (like Google Maps), and decide to completely roll their own version.
You realize of course, that Apple got told by Google that they could NOT use Google Maps for Turn-by-Turn Navigation. THAT'S why they created their own Mapping service.
I ASSURE you, that was exactly NOT what they wanted to do. But Google was trying to play hardball with Android, and not letting Apple come to the Mapping party.
Check your facts before you spew, hater.
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Irrelevant in the face of user complaints. The point is no matter how much you think apple is a hardware company its users will grill it for bad software.
They can keep on making solid gold watches, unless their software keeps up they will lose against the competition.
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Irrelevant in the face of user complaints. The point is no matter how much you think apple is a hardware company its users will grill it for bad software.
They can keep on making solid gold watches, unless their software keeps up they will lose against the competition.
The only reason you say that is "irrelevant" is that it nicely defeats your specious statement about Apple Maps. The truth is, Apple didn't have a choice with the Google Maps thing; Google knew they had Apple by the short hairs, and decided to start pulling... Apple IN NO WAY wanted to develop a mapping service, period.
Apple "Losing"? That's a good one! A LOT of Companies would like to be "losing" like Apple is!
So, hate on, hater boy; the more you rant, the sillier you sound.
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Oh my god read my fucking point. I'm not saying Apple had a choice, I'm saying Apple created and delivered a fucked version of maps and users around the world ridiculed, complained, and sought alternatives. A hardware company is never just a hardware company, that is my one and only statement, and if Apple deliver their next iPhone without any OS installed and don't provide an OS, few if any people will buy it.
So stop clinging on to your "it's someone else's fault" comeback while completely missing the poin
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Oh my god read my fucking point. I'm not saying Apple had a choice, I'm saying Apple created and delivered a fucked version of maps and users around the world ridiculed, complained, and sought alternatives. A hardware company is never just a hardware company, that is my one and only statement, and if Apple deliver their next iPhone without any OS installed and don't provide an OS, few if any people will buy it.
So stop clinging on to your "it's someone else's fault" comeback while completely missing the point of why I mentioned maps to begin with. The only one sounding silly here is you with your ranting defense of apple which makes zero sense in the context of the debate.
Perhaps I did not state my original point exactly correctly. What I really meant is that Apple's business model is to drive Hardware, not Software, Sales. For the most part, Apple views it's Software as a vehicle to drive its Hardware Sales. If they felt that they could contract out their software design and development and acheive the same level of quality (Maps.app notwithstanding) and integration, I would bet they would.
My point is, That is in stark contrast to Microsoft and Google, who PRIMARILY have
Re: I don't understand something (Score:1)
Storing too much locally on the device, which never left the device, and was a bug with location caching.
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because the story is actually a PR stunt from Apple
Of course, of course.
Cattle mutilations are up again.
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Why is this written as if it was a negative thing?
It's a negative thing if you want predictive services.
Apple seems to be betting that the vast majority of their users will prefer privacy over convenience. I think that's a bad bet. Time will tell.
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Apple's bet seems to be paying off:
https://twitter.com/dtellom/st... [twitter.com]
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Apple's bet seems to be paying off:
https://twitter.com/dtellom/st... [twitter.com]
Not sure I buy that graph... but ignoring that it really has no impact on my point. Predictive services aren't yet important enough to drive smartphone buying decisions. They're past the gimmick stage, into the "useful in narrow ways" stage, but a lot more is coming.
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Well, let's hear it then: what "predictive services" are currently existent, what are coming, and why would any of them be a net positive to the typical end user, much less more important than other concerns?
The article itself doesn't answer these questions, and in fact seems to be nothing more than marketing material for mach
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There's this small thing you may have heard of called predictive text. It was very useful, 15 years ago. This may come as a shock to you, but the people making tech like that have actually done stuff in the 15 years since.
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Predictive text is only one predictive service. It's also one that iOS does. Perhaps a different example of an area in which iOS is behind would be better?
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Predictive text is local. It doesn't require giving some corporation your data.
Try again.
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"Beep boop, you almost forgot your anniversery, I have ordered flowers for your SO".
"But, my anniversery isn't for another 4 months...oh shit the mistress!"
"Honey, why is there a charge on our card to the flower shop for an anniversary special? And where are the flowers?"
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Why is this written as if it was a negative thing?
It's Apple reverse psychology propaganda.
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Save the Empire! -- Empire Records, that is--
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Because it's Apple, and the typical slashdot denizen tries to frame everything Apple does as bad, even when it's good.
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Because it's Apple, and the typical slashdot denizen tries to frame everything Apple does as bad, even when it's good.
Isn't dat da Trufe?!?
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Why is this written as if it was a negative thing?
EXACTLY why I came here. To post the same question.
One Word (Score:5, Insightful)
GOOD
Re: (Score:2)
But... but... how are companies going to monetize paradigm synergies in your data, if they don't have your data?
Re:good (Score:5, Interesting)
But... but... how are companies going to monetize paradigm synergies in your data, if they don't have your data?
Apple is the most profitable company in the history of the world, and they make nearly all their money by selling hardware. They don't need to monetize data, and they have much more to lose than to gain by another NSA tracking scandal. The data can't be hacked or subpoenaed if it is never collected.
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See what happens when you ignore the MBAs in the product decision process?
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If they didn't need to monetize because they're "the most profitable company of the world", why were they caught as the ringleader of price-fixing e-books?
And, assuming that was actually true, how did that affect your (or anyone's) PRIVACY?
Data scientists?? (Score:2)
I dont think Data Scientists would be concerned about Apple's privacy policy because of all the words around it and how they execute it. If Data Scientists want anonamised data, just ask apple.
Maybe you meant to say: Preadatory Information Stealing Businesses and self-named Entrepreneurs?
Or would that take too much space? /. has changed in recent years. Now anictodal evidence of something is proof of something else which is completely unproven.
Wait, what? (Score:5, Insightful)
Privacy is bad?
After looking at the new Galaxy S6 that my wife just got, and seeing that the weather app (Accuweather) requires the most fine-grained GPS (gps+nearest wifi routers) just to give you the bloody weather(they don't trust you to put in a zip code or city manually), I am all out of fucks to give these "data scientists."
Enough with the data mining and privacy stripping. The optimism I had for ubiquitous computing available to all - giving people access to uncensorable communications - that I had back in the 80s through 90s, is now replaced by the pessimistic vision of Telescreens being installed not by fiat, but for mere consumer convenience.
As for Accuweather: Accuweather is fucking /gone/ and a shortcut to mobile.weather.gov is on the homescreen.
--
BMO
Re: (Score:2)
we compute a individual forecast for your actual location.
That's nice, but a GPS requirement that just allowed for in-use checking, and only approximate location (say 1/2 mile or so radius) is plenty fine for weather... and much easier on the battery.
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Note: it's a mistake to assume someone is looking for the forecast for their current location or the GPS location given by their network device (which may not be the same as their current location). If your service only worked by GPS, it would be giving the wrong forecast in some cases.
How about asking the user, and respecting their choice? Ask them if they want to give their GPS location for a specific forecast, or if they would prefer to type in a zip an get a generalized forecast. There could be reasons
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if you want to let the user make a choice, you need rights for everything the user can do. so wlan-location, gps-location, fine-location, cell-location as options mean you reserve all these rights at installation.
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And that was always a mistake for Android. I understand in the next version they are finally following the iOS model, and are asking for permissions individually at the time of first use. So if you never use a feature that requires GPS for example, the app should never ask for permission for it.
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You are an idiot who does not understand the word "forecast".
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I was talking to someone who went to download a weather app for her Android phone and she was reading the terms before the download began. It wanted access to her photos so she didn't download it. Why the hell does a weather app need access to your photos? It didn't mention anything about using them as a background. I can't remember what one it was but it was one of the major weather apps.
Good (Score:3)
First they killed Flash... (Score:1)
Now they won't let data scientists spy on us? What's next? Make a great UNIX desktop? Oh wait, they already did that!
Fuck Apple!
Summary (Score:5, Insightful)
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Summary: Joseph Gonzalez, co-founder of Dato, is miffed that his product is unable to exploit Apple's user base an it is hurting their revenue stream. He whines about it to Reuters and they write a sensationalist article. The end.
What? Can't he get enough Android user data? To hear the Slashtards talk, they own so much of the marketshare that the iOS data should be but a blip on the graph?
Hmmm, unless...
time to trade? (Score:2)
I'd say so, except that Apple does not put such restrictions on themselves.
There's an incredibly obnoxious app on my current HTC (which will be deleted when I get time). It scans my carrier's voicemail, ships the sound off to some unspecified data-mining location, and sends a text back to my phone. Worst of all, is that it has no disable feature; even though I have not paid for the service, I catch the damn thing running.
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Just means that I don't gain any privacy using an Apple vs an Android.
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Because you are using... Android?
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R U hot? Send pix!
Google Apple (Score:1, Insightful)
We've given too much flak on Apple and their overpriced products,
however if this is the only company that truly cares about end-user privacy then Apple is truly better in all ways over Google
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They can care all they want. Fifteen minutes is more than long enough for a mandated government tap to hoover up your location information, and they can't tell you about it. This is privacy theater.
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I beg to differ, it does count:
1. Entering the american border with an electronic device storing sensitive data is not an option for foreigners. With Android, the resetted device contains both the sensitive data stored before and the keys used to encrypt the device. Apple simply throws away the key stored in the cpu, leaving only unreadable data.
Worse: Some Android manufacturers have not implemented whole device encryption correctly to this very day. And bitlocker is a joke on windows
2. Before Android did a
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Why are you so consistently wrong?
http://apple.slashdot.org/stor... [slashdot.org]
Its harder to do that. (Score:1)
""They want to make a phone that responds to you very quickly without knowledge of the rest of the world," said Joseph Gonzalez, co-founder of Dato, a machine learning startup. "It's harder to do that."
Yeah, it may be harder, but thats why you employ smarter people.
Its also a damn sight easier to sit on ones butt and watch a football game rather than be there playing it.
Most people sit and watch, the greats are there putting themselves on the line doing the hard stuff for the benefit of the watchers.
Dato so
Apple's privacy policies are falling behind? (Score:2)
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Who typed this BS and why did you deem it necessary to repeat it here on slashdot?
To be fair, they are. Android's privacy policy for years has been 'you don't have any, once you click to install that screensaver that wants every possible permission so it can spy on you'. Microsoft's privacy policy with Windows 10 is apparently now 'ha-ha-ha.'
Apple are the holdout, among major commercial operating systems where the standard privacy policy is moving to 'all spyware, all the time'. Which is why I replaced my Android tablet with an iPad some time ago.
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Or, to put it another way - Apple cares b
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But you can rest assured, APL's using it for their own ad platform
Apple barely makes a penny on iAd. I wouldn't be surprised if it disappears soon.
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Collect big data on governments and businesses (Score:1)
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^ Please pretend you didn't see that.
Smacked upside the head (Score:2)
Anyone who uses the phrase "too protective of the end-user" should be smacked upside the head.