How Apple's CarPlay Could Shore Up the Car Stereo Industry 194
Velcroman1 writes: "Car stereo salesmen and installers around the country are hoping Apple's CarPlay in-car infotainment system will have a big presence in the aftermarket car stereo industry. The Nikkei Asian Review reports that Alpine is making car stereo head units for between $500 – $700 that will run the iOS-like system Apple unveiled last month, and Macrumors added Clarion to the list of CarPlay supporters. Pioneer is also getting into the game, with support said to be coming to existing car stereo models in its NEX line ($700 – $1400) via firmware update, according to Twice. Given Apple's wildly supportive fan base, its likely that a lot of aftermarket CarPlay units are about to fly off stereo shop shelves. Indeed, CarPlay coming to aftermarket stereo units could bring back what Apple indirectly stole from the industry going back as far as 2006."
in-car is legacy-ware (Score:2, Offtopic)
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Not for those of us who listen to the radio (Score:2)
Try getting a good reception on an iWhatever inside a car and then try changing channels on the move.
Wouldn't trust Apple (Score:2, Insightful)
I wouldn't trust Apple. When this becomes successful, before you know it, they will force other manufacturers out of the market. Look at how they are controlling the app-store, and forcing developers to not compete with Apple's products.
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You're working under the assumption that consumers will demand them...I'm kind of thinking that's a negative. I think most of them are probably more interested in having a tablet or smartphone instead. When it comes to me getting cars, I don't really give a shit about infotainment systems as I've always found my smartphone to be much more flexible. Music? Pandora. GPS? Google Maps. How would CarPlay improve anything? Maybe, *maybe* for a self-driving car, but beyond what I mentioned, I don't really mess wit
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CarPlay is likely to assume integration with an iphone. fewer consumers have iphones than have non-iphones. Why do you think most people would demand a system that is unlikely to work well with their phones?
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CarPlay is likely to assume integration with an iphone. fewer consumers have iphones than have non-iphones.
The number of consumers having each kind of phone doesn't matter. The number of consumers demonstrably willing to spend several hundred dollars matters.
Seriously, if you have one guy who paid $600 for an iPhone, and 10 guys who spent $100 for the cheapest Android phone they could find, who is more likely to spend $500-$700 on music in their car?
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But but but... there's over 1 billion Android phones out there!!! That only 2%-5% are running the latest Android, and they're still selling Android v2 phones? *IRRELEVANT!!!*
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Even the meth-heads have stopped stealing car stereos. That is how stagnant the industry has gotten.
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Car stereo crime has more or less stopped because car manufacturers shifted from having standard stereo enclosures to fitting decent model specific stereos that wouldn't fit in other makes or models of car.
Standard interfaces are not always a good thing!
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Most of Apple's customers are children, yuppies, and idiots. No one who actually understands technology[hardware and software] and mathematics buys Apple products.
That's interesting, since I meet a lot of software developers at other companies and the most common laptop maker they have (by far) are Apple ones: MBP or Air. Now maybe it's the tech industry I'm in (networking), or the type of developers I meet (highly paid ones who travel), but they can't all be stupid.
I used to tease them about it, until I got one because I was fed up with my employer-supplied laptop... and I have to say they are really, really good. There are some very frustrating things about Apple
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Wow. the fanboys are out in droves today. Funny how Google is one of Apple's largest customers is somehow missed by the fandroids (40k Apple systems as I understand it).
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"I just don't 'get' the ambiguous sexuality of apple products."
What? Oh, I get it. It's a joke. OK!
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We all believed you until you hit "A Wife." This is ./, and we already know that the virgin crowd rules these shores...
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Okay here we go
I have the following:
$600,000 loft (and appropriate decor/rooftop pool)
BMW 328i
84 IMDb credits, and my crew has won three Oscars
2 dogs
2 iPhones
1 Macbook Air
2 MacPros
(I also have a MacBook running ubuntu)
I am uncertain of the future of tech without Apple products.
I just don't 'get' the obnoxious contrarianism of Android products. Or their enormous screens, or their uniformly poor OS upgrade and hardware support, or Google's completely obscure roadmap for Android.
The thing Apple is selling you
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The thing Apple is selling you, beside the hardware, is the complete integrated product. They take your money, they give you something that works, that's their sole "monetization" strategy. Unlike everyone else in the business, trying to suck you into their various creepy ad/clickstream/search front-running scams.
QFT.
I think though, that you're overselling the size of the vocal anti-Apple Android user base. I think they've just grown accustomed to hacking around bad design.
This quote comes to mind.
The reasonable man adapts himself to the world; the unreasonable one persists in trying to adapt the world to himself. Therefore all progress depends on the unreasonable man. - George Bernard Shaw
Android users think they're adapting tech to themselves, Apple users think Apple is adapting the tech industry to their whims.
In the end, the question is, who's design decisions do you trust, yourself or Apple's? I opt for Apple.
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Funny how these "you don't know what you want, but I'm smart and know what I want" are typically ACs...
The Real Breakthrough - non auto-maker Maps (Score:3)
I don't know if CarPlay will gain any traction. Since Apple has no control over quality of implementation, we'll see some really awful interfaces on top of CarPlay...
But one great aspect of CarPlay has already done something I thought would not happen for a while - breaking the car manufactures monopoly on in-car mapping. Car makers have been constantly pushing very over-priced terrible in-car GPS systems for a while, and CarPlay at least brings a reasonable and cheap mapping system into cars without having to replace the whole stereo system and/or shoe-horn in a screen. I could see many people adopting a CarPlay stereo just for that.
One thing I really wish would happen would be to have the car industry be also mandated to provide third-party access to all of the screens that will be mandated in cars soon because of the back-up cameras... that could lead to a real renaissance in what smart-phones can do for you in-car.
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Car makers have been constantly pushing very over-priced terrible in-car GPS systems for a while,
I'll have you know my car has a very over-priced mediocre in-car GPS system! Actually, its flaw is no good interface to set a destination address (voice recognition and arbitrary proper nouns is just a bad combination in general). I really want a way to attach a keyboard, or to pull an address from my phone contacts list in some sane and reliable way.
One thing I really wish would happen would be to have the car industry be also mandated to provide third-party access to all of the screens that will be mandated in cars soon because of the back-up cameras... that could lead to a real renaissance in what smart-phones can do for you in-car.
There's real potential there, but I want it to work both ways: the car should accept any screen though some standard interface (2-way HDMI maybe?). The buil
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This won't stop the car industry.
I can't easily replace the navigation system in my car, because it controls the air-con.
The whole system is integrated in to the dash, the steering wheel controls, the trip computer and air conditioning.
There are aftermarket options on ebay, but the risk it won't work is high - The car is made in Japan with several options for air con (single/dual zone) and is visibly identical to other models made in USA which may or may not be wired the same. Added to the fact the model na
Re:The Real Breakthrough - non auto-maker Maps (Score:5, Informative)
I can't easily replace the navigation system in my car, because it controls the air-con.
The whole system is integrated in to the dash, the steering wheel controls, the trip computer and air conditioning.
This article is a load of toss. The problem is right here. Even before apple/android devices were around, automakers did their best to frustrate after-market installers by using odd dash shapes, surrounds, and separate control panels. With the advent of Nav and touchscreen controls(and the various iDrive systems on some makes), the problem is swiftly getting worse.
Nearly all new Ford, Chrysler, and GM products have some sort of touchscreen "radio" that also contains the environmental controls, adjustable seat settings, Nav (if equipped), and various other things that no longer have separate dash controls. Foreign makes have been going this way for several years in higher end vehicles. The only way to get a radio that can be removed without affecting other equipment is to buy a base, fleet-trim vehicle that doesn't have any other options to begin with.
CarPlay is too late; it is no longer possible to install aftermarket head units in more than 90% of new cars on the market.
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Since Apple has no control over quality of implementation
But one great aspect of CarPlay has already done something I thought would not happen for a while - breaking the car manufactures monopoly on in-car mapping.
These two points contradict each other.
If Apple has no control over implementation, then implementation is till reliant on the good will of the car manufacturers to put it into _THEIR_ in car entertainment systems.
I don't know if CarPlay will gain any traction.
It wont, precisely because the manufacturers don't want to give up their monopoly.
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The point you're missing about maps is that maps in car play is fed via Apple maps. Which updates more frequently than maps for car systems.
Car manufacturers don't mind giving up control over things like the entertainment system provided it works better than what they can do. A lot of makers are signed up for it. From BMW to Hyundai to ford and GM.
How it'll do in the future... No one knows.
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How much do I pay for Maps updates with Apple? 0.
How much do you pay for mapping updates in most cars? LOTS AND LOTS (sometimes over $1k!)
Not to mention Apple maps can be fed locations from any application, whereas the car nav can only get input through whatever torturous interface the car make has put in place.
Smartphone king of offline mapping also (Score:3)
How well do the maps work when you don't have cell coverage in most cars? Just fine.
Same is true of the phone. Either you can buy any offline mapping program ranging from $10-$20, or just use what offline maps exist in Google/Apple maps (Apple maps once it starts a nav route no longer requires a network to get to where you are going).
Those are all updated automatically, for free, and I can chose the navigation I think works best for where I am.
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breaking the car manufactures monopoly on in-car mapping.
WTF are you talking about?
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all of the screens that will be mandated in cars soon because of the back-up cameras...
Yeah I never really understood this. I'm too lazy to look up statistics for people killed from cars backing up, but it can't be higher than those killed from "inattentive driving". What they really need to mandate is fucking bluetooth speakerphones. It would be a lot cheaper than a screen and save more lives.
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Will this be similar to how apple "broke the monopoly on ebooks" http://online.wsj.com/news/art... [wsj.com]
Or how they "Broke the monopoly on hiring". http://www.justice.gov/opa/pr/... [justice.gov]
Ever heard of getting a third party GPS for like $99 at costco with lifetime maps? When it gets old i just throw it out and get a newer/faster/whatever one.
Far cheaper then getting the fancy in-dash model and not being able to replace it.
"One thing I really wis
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Will this be similar to how apple "broke the monopoly on ebooks" http://online.wsj.com/news/art [wsj.com]...
Possibly, Apple tried to save us from an Amazon monopoly and failed.
Ever heard of getting a third party GPS for like $99 at costco with lifetime maps?
Yes, and they suck compared to a smartphone because they aren't integrated with anything. I have some left over from the Old Days.
Really, you think that is fair? Would it work the other way as in i think apple should be mandated
Get the stick out of your ass man
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Hahaha! No they didn't. They tried to insulate themselves and their profits from having to compete with Amazon. It had nothing to do with "saving us" at all. Amazing how quickly fanboys will rewrite history for the sake of their favorite corporation, no matter how evil they're shown to be.
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I think the whole point of CarPlay is that it's an external display/mirroring solution that takes over the entire in-car display. Knowing Apple, a term of licensing is probably not allowing any overlay or alteration of the display. The only thing allowed is probably switching away from CarPlay completely to show in-car data like the backup camera or car-specific info.
What hasn't been talked about is whether OEM integration with CarPlay to control OEM-specific features like HVAC, audio settings (EQ/fader)
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Some manufacturers, like Toyota and Subaru, have been offering MirrorLink capability for a few years. It lets you mirror your phone screen to the in-dash screen, complete with touch control, and you can use any navigation app you like.
Less apple more ISO standard interface please (Score:3, Insightful)
I recently bought a new car with the USB dongle in the glove cabinet to hook stuff directly to the car stereo. (a 2000 bucks option)
They failed to mention it only supports apple products.
Its time that a ISO standard arrives for cars so i can hook any device to it that supports the standard.
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They failed to mention it only supports apple products.
Are you sure? Android phones now use something called "MTP", which most devices don't seem to support (neither of our car stereos do, one is a factory Honda, the other is a Pioneer; similarly, my Macbook Pro *still* can't connect to my S3, a year and a half after I bought the phone). Did you try a standard USB drive? I bet it'll work.
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My 2009 Santa Fe might have a crummy monochromatic display and obtuse choices for button functions, but it reads MP3 files off standard USB sticks, nests the folders properly, and doesn't accuse me of DRM violations. I'm set.
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3rd party GPS is gimped due to a lack of wheel rotation data from the car which OEM GPS get's "for free". This wheel rotation data helps update direction, speed and position far more frequently than GPS can. If CarPlay gets access to the car's telemetry feeds to pickup wheels rotation data, it will make a huge difference in accuracy. From there on out OEM is a dead. For sure you will be stuck in a walled garden though... renting your map data at $3 a month. But that's better than an over priced, 3 years
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To me, phone GPS is plenty good enough for car use (either Google or Apple). I've been using a car mount to hold my phone for years and have never had issues with it reporting where I was accurately, outside of one odd anomaly somewhere in the middle of Utah where for about thirty miles GPS assured me I was 500 feet off the side of the road.
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I installed my own garmin gps in my car about 10 yrs ago when I bought the car, new. I did a very custom install and people are usually impressed by it. its also quite hidden, which is why its not been taken OUT of my car in 10 yrs.
but now, 10 yrs later, the maps are very out of date for many areas I drive in (bay area). I'm too cheap to buy an update and so I use my android phone. it sits in a center cup holder area, it uses cellphone locations and gps and always stays current, for free.
I don't love go
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Phones have accelerometers, gyros and in some cases barometers that can adequately make up for the lack of wheel rotation data to cover gaps in GPS coverage. A bigger problem is the size and position of the GPS antenna, especially when the windows have metallic coatings.
I recently bought a peripheral that didn't work! (Score:3, Insightful)
I recently spent $35,000 on a peripheral for my phone, but I forgot to check if the peripheral worked with my phone.
Can someone write a law that says that all peripherals have to work with my phone?
Thank you very much.
Signed, ignorant consumer.
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If you just bought a new car and paid $2000 for an upgraded stereo, why aren't you using the Bluetooth connectivity that it doubtless comes with, rather than clumsy dongles that are apparently proprietary?
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There is a standard, it's called MirrorLink. Even Apple supports it.
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Audi's stereos work with iOS only, depending on what system you pick.
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dude, you dropped $2k for that?
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It would be fine with me if the USB port was just powered.
Given how simple USB wiring is, that's trivial to fix. Get a nice buck converter for a few bucks on eBay, and wire in a USB power injection cable.
If Apple infotainment is great why dont we see it (Score:2, Insightful)
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Like this? Where it's free? Across a whole airline?
http://www.cultofmac.com/26985... [cultofmac.com]
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If Apple infotainment is great why don't we see it in the airplanes.
How exactly would this work? You'd be able to airplay GPS to the screen in front of you for a turn by turn play?
While it would be great if all cars used some sort of standard system, for now I'm happy they're using any kind of standard.
In a few years time, either Android phones will start having an iPhone compatibility mode, or a standard will emerge.
(Frankly I don't know which will happen since both have happened in the past)
You do (Score:3)
You know those USB ports in the back of some airlines seats? You can use them to stream video from an iPad [gizmodo.com].
That was from 2006... I thought I had read recently where some airline was working on a system where you could get in-flight movies on your iPad.
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There is no service or fee associated with this feature. It's not something you subscribe to, any more than you subscribe to Windows or your Sony alarm clock. This product is simply an app that sits on top of Blackberry's QNX operating system that drives a lot of the high-end car stereos, allowing the stereo to interface more easily with iOS products. Nothing more. You're not even locked into using it, since you can exit out to the car manufacturer's QNX interface.
Moreover, suggesting we'd see it in airplan
Burned once (Score:2)
Car stereo salesmen and installers around the country are hoping Apple's CarPlay in-car infotainment system will have a big presence in the aftermarket car stereo industry.
Well, it could have, but after investing in a head unit with the expensive licensed connector for my iPod, then finding when my out-of-warranty iPod died that my new one would not work with the very expensive head unit any more because they changed the connector ... well.
As the saying goes: "Screw me once, shame on me, screw me twice, Fuck you Apple - NEVER AGAIN!!"
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Uh, Apple does make an adapter for it... I know it's $30, but it's at least a solution. (Our car has a USB port, so it's just a matter of changing the cable for us.)
Except that unlike the old cable, with the adapter it doesn't provide a charge, only the connection. So it drains the battery as it's used, then I have to charge it by connecting it to the car charger. There doesn't seem to be a way to connect it to the stereo and charger at the same time, at least with the adapter.
Really renders the whole thing useless. The cheapest fix is to return this iPod, and buy an iPod classic for about $250. Way more capacity than I need, and more money than I wanted to spend,
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alternatively you could buy an old touch or mini on craigslist or ebay.
The adaptor does charge (Score:2)
I use the adaptor in my own car, which provides a custom cable from 30-Pin iPod to the car's USB port (but it needs that cable in order to run an app specific to the car).
I've been using the lightning adapter with the iPhone 5 every since it came out, it charges just fine.
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You using an Apple adapter or a knockoff?
The lightning adapter is Apple - not sure if any knockoffs exist at this point. But, apparently, it depends on the Alpine deck you have, and the cable used to connect to that. I guess it's complicated [apple.com].
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The 30-pin connector was in use for about a decade, and you can get an adapter to use Lighting connector devices with 30-pin connector accessories. This is a non-issue.
The adapter, when used with the car head units designed for 5 - 6 gen iPods, does not supply power, and that IS a MAJOR issue!
The solution is NOT a $30 adapter, it's a $250 iPod classic!!
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I'm sad to say I have to agree with Curunir... Apple has this nasty habit of breaking adapters for reasons I can't understand and then failing to provide a way to intermingle the old and new ones without buying a new computer. The new magsafe adaptors come to mind.
Android ... (Score:2)
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Yes. I'd love to hear an unbiased review from a site that doesn't sell them. ...bought myself a WiFi hotspot and a cheap service plan (FreedomPop) today to start down this path.
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Yes. I'd love to hear an unbiased review from a site that doesn't sell them. ...bought myself a WiFi hotspot and a cheap service plan (FreedomPop) today to start down this path.
There is an unbiased site, but you need to own a unicorn to get membership.
I'm still looking for a wiring loom for a Honda Integra (Acura RSX for the Americans).
Siri in my car? (Score:4, Funny)
After listening to the kids for a while, all she says is, "Don't make me pull over and come back there!"
Why spend another $700 for a car stereo (Score:4, Interesting)
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There are plenty of Android head units available now...
Re:Why spend another $700 for a car stereo (Score:4, Insightful)
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It's more reliable. Bluetooth Audio is miserably finicky. The only thing that ever worked right with my JVC was AT&T Fuze. With a couple different Android devices now including the Nexus 4 I get occasional skips. I used to use an Xperia Play, that skipped a lot. Flawless using the headphone cable in my truck instead.
I'm going to try adding bluetooth to my car anyway, switching into the line inputs from the changer with an audio signal relay, and using an ultra-cheap receiver. but i'm also going to have
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That's pretty much the exact opposite experience I've had. I've never had an issue with BT audio, even once. Range seems to top out at about 30 ft and for music listening, is perfect. I've run in to audio lag (20-40ms) issues when streaming audio to bottom tier $20 adapters but it's completely replaced physical audio cables in my house. The sounds system in the living room and bedroom both use it exclusively and I just stream to either/or from my phone as the "head unit" and use the speaker system as a dumb
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That's pretty much what ALL cheap car stereos have been doing for the past decade. Except they throw in a clock, USB & SD card slots for MP3s, and usually a radio.
How does $25 grab you:
https://www.amazon.com/XO-Visi... [amazon.com]
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Already exists, it's called MirrorLink and several manufacturers of cars and after-market head units support it. There is also the proprietary but well hacked Pioneer AppRadio. Plug your phone in and stash it out of the way, the screen is fully mirrored with touch control in the dash and you can even use the car's GPS antenna.
External touchscreen (Score:2)
All I want from a car unit is a touchscreen + audio. Alas, while most phones can handle external displays, external touchscreens are generally unsupported.
A car has to last at least a decade. Trying to build in intelligence is futile, and adding 3G/4G is not much better. In a decade, CPU's and software and data transfer standards will hopefully have advanced greatly.
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Exactly! Just provide a display and hooks to the steering wheel controls (use something standard like Bluetooth HID profiles and HDMI). No need to come up with your own "solution" that will be obsolete in 3 years, or worse, lock me into a monthly fee.
The problem continues to be that car manufacturers want to control the whole "experience" no matter what, because they know that their products are remarkably similar to everyone else's products. The stereo/info-tainment system is about the only part of the car
Apple head unit? (Score:2)
Jumping the shark?
First of all, most modern car stereos do much more than play the radio or act as an amplifier for an mp3 player. They also serve as controllers and displays for other computing units in the car. How will the Apple head unit reset the maintenance reminder?
Further, the head unit is probably the best piece of a stock car audio system. Money would be much better spent upgrading the speakers, or adding an external amp with a subwoofer.
And anothe
not at those prices, it won't fly off the shelves (Score:2)
and frankly, in-car entertainment is dangerous. like the other poster said, all I want in there is an amp and speakers with a jack for audio input. the stuff is expensive, too tempting to look away from the road, and between Ford and BMW, is a monster. totally ergo inappropriate. put the frickin' screen in the dash where the speedometer is now, and stop the contortions.
I'd like my 1964 Dodge back. fixable, the controls fall where your hands are, no menus, and no nonsense.
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like the other poster said, all I want in there is an amp and speakers with a jack for audio input
That's what I put in my truck. You can't listen to optical media in it unless you have a heavy load, because the suspension is too hard. So I have a $20 amplifier with stereo in and four outputs.
I'd like my 1964 Dodge back. fixable, the controls fall where your hands are, no menus, and no nonsense.
Yes, if I had perfect foresight instead of excellent hindsight, I'd have kept my 1960 Dodge. It got over 20 mpg on the freeway and it was stupid simple. But I didn't know how to rebuild a brake system then (dirt simple, as it turns out) and so I couldn't afford to keep it.
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Yep, me too. I have a 1999 Holden (Isuzu) Rodeo V6. It's a low-tech car, no computers or gizmos at all (excluding the engine's ECU). Like an old nail, it's utterly reliable - it has 350,000km on it and it just works, day in, day out. In the Australian climate it's not even going to rust away.
My one concession to modern in-car electronics was just last weekend upgrading the stock radio (with cassette!) to a new Sony head unit which
Comment removed (Score:5, Insightful)
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When I was picking options for my last car I decided not to go with the in dash navigation system, simply because I knew I could install a bracket for my phone that did much more than the nav system. If the nav system was $300 more than the "premium" stereo (with line-in) I could have justified it, but it was a whopping $1800 more than the mid-range system, which I'm sure wasn't cheap (it was part of the package). For what basically is a small PC running VXWorks or some such real-time OS and a DVD drive.
Re:Apple stole nothing (Score:4, Insightful)
Buttons are the way to go for an interface in a car. That and big knobs or switches. Something with a lot of tactile feedback. Just look at an airplane's cockpit.
A touch interface has no place in a car, much too dangerous to use, and totally useless in winter when it's -30C and you wear gloves. The screen becomes slow as molasses and you can't control it without removing your gloves.
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Knobs and buttons (Score:2)
The wife just got a car with touch screen doodad that controls pretty much everything. Talk about device which main purposes seems to be to cause distracted driving. I'll take buttons and knobs any day.
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Oh, but buttons and knobs cost money to make, the touch screen is just a few bucks.
And touch screens are sexy. Touch screens sell cars. Knobs are sooooo 20th century. Your granddad's car had knobs.
Dead-end Market? (Score:3)
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I'm confused. Wasn't the last car capable of a having an after-market head unit installed manufactured a solid 10 years ago? I fail to see the point. The number of such cars is on a rapid decline. For collectors if you're going to buy an ancient car, then wouldn't you be buying it for nostalgia's sake and want the old crappy radio that came with it?
Pretty much, unless you buy a car with just the basic radio. I traded in my 2003 Murano for a new car last summer and it was 10 years old. The A/C controls were built into the Bose radio system. It took an aftermarket company 7 years to release a control panel that would let you swap out the stereo system. Once they did, I was able to replace the crappy Bose with a Kenwood Navigation system without losing any functionality.
My new car is a 2014 Jeep Grand Cherokee and I have the Uconnect 8.4 infotainment
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Toyota and Subaru both offer MirrorLink capable head units, even as standard on some models. No real need to replace it when you can replace the entire UI, unless you really need a bigger amp.
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As for security, what's the problem exactly? How's all those Android viruses working out for everyone?
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Ahhh but it's not just because it's shiny. Apple is so easy my mom actually bought an iPhone on her own and managed to get all kinds of apps. She wouldn't have been able to do that with Android and don't get me started on what happened when she brought home a PC laptop. (She's been a mac user for probably 7 years but the salesman somehow convinced her to go with a PC, based on price, he sold her a shitty little netbook with the new windows. After 7 years of no computer questions I had to resume my role
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The irony in your post is that you also need to grow up about Crack and recognize that, for a lot of people, it is exactly what people want. Ranting about it is just as childish as being an uncritical fanboy.
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A bit of a sore spot, eh? You work for MS? Maybe on the SYNC?
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As Steve Jobs once remarked (about iTunes for Windows users), like giving a glass of ice water to someone in hell.
iTunes for Windows? I thought that WAS hell?!