Swiss Railway: Apple's Using Its Clock Design Without Permission 274
An anonymous reader writes "Apple received a lot of criticism during the Apple/Samsung litigation this past Summer as folks deemed it absurd that Apple was able to patent things such as icon design and the overall form factor of a smartphone. Well as it turns out, it appears that Apple has engaged in some copying of its own in the form of the new clock icon design used in iOS 6 on the iPad- a rather ironic turn of events given that Apple railed against Samsung for copying its own iOS icons. Specifically, the clock icon in iOS 6 on the iPad is a blatant copy of a Hans Hilfiker design to which both the trademark and copyright is owned by the Swiss Federal Railways service."
UK Railway not happy too... (Score:5, Insightful)
Looks like the UK Railway too is not happy with them.
http://www.metro.co.uk/tech/912750-apple-ios6-maps-debacle-transport-for-london-signposts-alternative [metro.co.uk]
Re:UK Railway not happy too... (Score:5, Insightful)
That's nothing. Check out these other iOS Maps fuckups [tumblr.com]. It really is a hilarious way to kill four hours!
Re: (Score:2)
It really is a hilarious way to kill four hours!
I thought for sure that you meant using iOS's maps to give directions to a gas station across the street.
Re: (Score:2)
the one with the bridges in Philadelphia made me piss so hard I had to look it up on Google Maps as well...
it ain't much better on there! [google.co.uk] (zoom in on the bridges)
Apple has always stolen other designs since day on (Score:5, Insightful)
not that it is especially wrong for this: everyone steal from everyone, and then improves on it. this is how creation works
which tells us how useless and ignorant intellectual property, as a concept, is
you may ask then how does the solitary inventor protect his <strike>invention</strike> incremental improvement, standing on the shoulders of others, from being ripped off by large players?
there are a number of legal ways to do this. but if you think the current system is anything but a joke that protects ONLY those large players, and consists of ridiculous wasteful absurd legal posturing games between large players where only lawyers benefit, you are an idiot. the game currently is: he with the largest legion of lawyers wins. that's it, that's the whole game
it's absurdity, and the system is profoundly broken
Oblig. Bad Car Analogy (Score:3)
If violating a patent is really a form of property theft, then the police (Federal, in this case) should be taking stolen IP reports. And dispatching officers to apprehend the culprits and recover the stolen property.
Just like with stolen cars*, the priority for each case isn't assigned based on the wealth or status of the complainant. A shitbox Honda gets the same attention as a Bentley. Nobody insists on you hiring your own recovery agents and attorneys to get your car back. That's the job of law enforce
Re:Apple has always stolen other designs since day (Score:5, Insightful)
Incremental improvements have been shown to be simultaneous often through history, with multiple places claiming the first airplane, helicopter, recording device or transmitting device of various kinds. If two people can invent the same thing at the same time with no collaboration, what does that say about the uniqueness of the invention/discovery? The current theories on invention are that such things are inevitable, given the demands and present tech. The problems are that the available tech isn't sufficient, or that there is no need to be filled.
Things like the computer and printing press were invented by need and tech. Babbage would have been the undisputed inventor of computers with a 1960's style punch card system, if only the machine-works were sufficient for the tolerances he required, or the electrical tech was sufficiently advanced for him to attempt that route. Since neither was sufficient, he is a theoretical inventor of an adding machine (that would have worked, but didn't at the time). So the "discovery" of computers was left for a later date. And was solved in multiple ways by multiple different people over overlapping periods (mostly over WWII, with the US pioneering electrical-based systems, Germans getting mechanical systems done well, and the English doing whatever they could, based on their allies and captured enemy tech.
Re:Apple has always stolen other designs since day (Score:5, Insightful)
not that it is especially wrong for this: everyone steal from everyone, and then improves on it. this is how creation works
There is an Academic concept of plagiarism. This is very interesting because it has nothing to do with copying; academics are supposed to copy. Someone who fails to report what their predecessors said is treated with more contempt. Plagiarism, however, is worse. It is taking other people's words and ideas without crediting them. That gives you some idea what is wrong here.
which tells us how useless and ignorant intellectual property, as a concept, is
For "Intellectual property" as a phrase and a grouping you are probably right, but we shouldn't throw the baby out with the bathwater. There are specific kinds of intellectual property, trademarks are one of them, which have real value. Without clear ownership of names it's very difficult for companies to build a reputation. Without reputation there is no difference between a cheap forced labour made rip off job like an iPhone and a serious communication device like an EADS Tetra terminal. If you ended up in with your communication device packing up just because you put it sprayed it with water to stop it melting you would be rightly upset when you found out someone had given you an inferior product by accident.
With the swiss railways, there is serious value here. When you buy a watch endorsed by them [amazon.com] it means something. This is not some random quartz knock off job. Proper precision engineering. Think of the famous joke:
In this particular case there are series of design elements which are completely different from a normal clock; Lack of numbers; a bright red circle on the second hand. A very plain white disk. These are things which are original from Swiss railways and that nobody used before them. If you exactly copy these then you are basically trying to make off the reputation of the Swiss railway. This is something which can reasonably be protected; merely by changing from a bright red to a blue triangle you can copy the concept (a clock which emphasises the change of every second) without copying the design.
Now you might ask; "why does the rtfa-troll support Swiss Railways here and not Apple there". Well firstly; I'm not supporting them for a "beeelion dollars" like Apple wants. I'm supporting them for a couple of hundred quid and an apology. Secondly; pick a random Samsung Galaxy S vs iPhone comparison [youtube.com]. Have a look at the way that key design elements (the bare metal surround on the side of the phone) are different. Anything which clearly distinguishes one product from another should be enough. The key standard is "designed so as to be easily confused with" not "designed to pay homage to".
It would be a shame if the IP cowboys forced us to throw away all of the things that are valuable in trademarks or secrets just because they abuse patents and copyright.
Re: (Score:2)
mod parent up
cream of the crop in quality of thinking and knowledge of this subject
score one for the new Swiss Pirate Party mayor? (Score:2)
It's gotta be done!
Classic blunder (Score:5, Funny)
The Swiss Railways clock (Score:5, Informative)
Here's a Swiss railroad clock in its native habitat, at Cornavin station. [worldradio.ch] There are clocks at regular intervals along platforms, and the second hands are, of course, in sync. It's part of the Swiss Railways branding - their stations tend to have a large, if not excessive, number of those clocks.
It's a famous design. A home-size version is available from the Museum of Modern Art in New York. [momastore.org] (It does not, however, sync to an external time source.)
In Recent News (Score:5, Funny)
Apple today announced that they have been granted a patent for using other peoples' designs. iCopy will be featured in all of their future products.
A sidenote... (Score:5, Insightful)
Is there anybody but me who thinks that Apple should have made the "clock" look like a watch instead of a clock?
Watches are what people are using the iPhone clock for anyway...
Typical Apple (Score:2)
So it's okay for Apple to label Samsung a copycat for creating icons that look similar to iPhone icons, but when you rip off someone else's design VERBATIM you're not? This company has become so brazen that they'll now plagiarize without any attribution or compensation.
Will Apple voluntarily withdraw it's products (Score:3, Interesting)
Re: (Score:2)
I'm pretty critical of some of these ios 6 screw ups, but your analogy is off. The clock app isn't exactly competing with the physical clocks sold with the Swiss Railway face. That being said, yes, they should have either licensed the design or just come up with a new clock face. Oh, look, the iPod Nano already had a bunch. This issue is just a facepalm compared to the Maps fiasco.
Now this clear copying. (Score:5, Insightful)
This is a clear-cut case of blatant copying of a design, Apple should just admit it, pay up and move on.
Re: (Score:2)
This is a clear-cut case of blatant copying of a design, Apple should just admit it, pay up and move on.
Move on to what? More litigation and cheating?
Re: (Score:2)
I agree with you. In a few weeks they release another clock face, admit this was inadvertent and try and settle for a small sum. If anything by paying for a look and feel violation strengthens their hand on the lawsuits they do care about.
Re:Now this clear copying. (Score:4, Insightful)
I don't think it was inadvertent - they likely picked that design because it is actually good and in line with Apple's general design policy. More likely that either it was done by some designer on his own who did not mention his source of inspiration, and did not realize that it could be trademarked or otherwise protected.
Either way it's highly unlikely that the lack of attribution or payment. was deliberate. As far as I know, Swiss Railway does actually permit the use of the shape in many circumstances, often even for free - and it's not like Apple can't pay for the privilege even if they ask for some money.
Re: (Score:2)
that's what I meant by inadvertent, the designer didn't realize. And yes I agree that assuming the fee is small Apple can just pay. But if Swiss Railway wants a lot then they just pay a small amount and switch the design.
Sad (Score:5, Insightful)
Swiss Patent Office workers used to make such better use of their time.
Culture of cheating (Score:3, Interesting)
Like Microsoft before it, Apple's corporate DNA is built around a culture of cheating.
Yeesh (Score:2)
I recognized the clock face instantly after installing iOS 6 becuase I have one of the official wall clocks and one of the wtaches from MOMA. Yeah, I sort of like the design. I figured Apple licensed it. Oops.
I like my Apple stuff, but some of the larger shareholders need to call for a shareholder meeting to find out WTF is going on here with this and the maps. FFS when you are one of the most watched corporations in the world, by both your fanbots and haterbots, do you even get close to doing things like t
Re: (Score:2)
Not sure how letterboxing is an issue. It lets current apps run as normal until the devs update. There is no other content to put there yet.
The other solution is to stretch things, and i fail to see how that is better.
Apple redefined copying long ago (Score:5, Insightful)
If Apple does something, it, by definition, is original. They cannot be copying. If you accuse them of it, you obviously do not know what the word means.
If you are a competitor, you are copying their stuff. If you say you are not because you were using the idea 10 years before Apple did, you still do not correctly understand the word.
Copying means doing anything that may affect their profits - nothing else. You could make a sperical phone with 32 hexagonal buttons, a crescent shaped screen, had a UI based on Lcars and Apple would still sue you if it was faster, cheaper and easier to use and outsold them.
Apple will fix it. in a second. (Score:2)
Apple should pay $1,000,000,000 (Score:2)
Looks bad for SBB (Score:2, Informative)
https://www.swissreg.ch/srclient/faces/jsp/trademark/sr300.jsp?language=de§ion=tm&id=512830 [swissreg.ch]
It's a three dimensional trademark, only for clocks/watches so the two dimensional picture in a phone should be in the clear. And they forgot to put a color photograph in their application, so I guess the color of the second hand may not be protected. And copyright? On a clock? Good luck with that.
Re: (Score:3)
Except it is a clock in the phone, and if you watch the shadow on the second hand, it's clearly in three dimensions. And it's not copyright, it's trade dress, exactly what Apple sued Samsung for, with the difference being that Samsung's designs weren't nearly as exact a copy as this is.
Apple is wrong. What should they pay? (Score:2)
Apple is clearly in the wrong. The should
The question is, how much is the design worth to Apple? Before you say "1 bazillion simoleans" bear in mind we're talking about the clock design for the iPad's Clock app. For, oh I don't know, somewhere between $100,000 and $1,000,000 they can push a whole new app with a non-infringing design. So that puts an upper bound on what Apple is likely to agree to.
You're the lawyer that has to advise Tim Cook how much to pay. What
Re: (Score:2)
somewhere between $100,000 and $1,000,000 they can push a whole new app with a non-infringing design. So that puts an upper bound on what Apple is likely to agree to.
I dunno. Apple has a lot of cash on hand that they're trying to figure out what to do with it, and if they pay up over 7 figures as a symbolic gesture now, of how serious they take copying design, they might use that as leverage later when they suspect their competitors are copying from them.
Re: (Score:2)
It's not just how much to push out a new version, it is how much in lawyer fees to defend the damage already done.
Re: (Score:2)
Okay. What's that, another $1,000,000? I doubt it. Apple has scores of lawyers on staff and a handful of law firms on retainer. It's unlikely that this will make a noticeable change to their workload. Remember the kerfluffle around the iPhone trademark? (http://yro.slashdot.org/story/07/02/22/134238/apple-cisco-settle-iphone-trademark-lawsuit [slashdot.org]) How about the iCloud trademark? (http://thenextweb.com/apple/2011/09/07/icloud-communications-dumps-icloud-trademark-lawsuit-against-apple/ [thenextweb.com]) All forgotten now. Money
The red dot, or the pause at the top? (Score:2)
The article seems to imply that the unique feature is an operational, not a visual, one:
In 1953 Hilfiker added a red second hand, which pauses briefly at the top of each minute "to enable trains to depart punctually", as he put it.
For copyright, it's a very slippery slope - and not a slam dunk: A clock with no numbers, as shown (but without the ball), is clearly in the public domain, having existed prior to [name your favorite PD date]. The aspect ratio of the marks and the relative size of the red circle
Silly lawsuit (Score:3)
He who lives by the silly lawsuit, dies by the silly lawsuit.
Re:so i can't make a clock with no numbers? (Score:5, Insightful)
i have to pay the swiss?
So I can't make a rectangular phone with rounded edges?
Re: (Score:3, Informative)
Re: (Score:3)
That don't hide the fact that in short words Apple argued that
Re: (Score:2, Informative)
Please check out what your talking about before blabbering along in blissful ignorance. The Swiss railway clock is not subject to a patent, but to copyright. That makes an hell of a difference. The patent system is completely rotten by now (even of the original aim was good) and should be killed or at least reinvented from the ground up. But if copyright is abolished, then so is copyleft, as it is nothing but a very clever use of copyright. Nobody around here or on the society in general would be helped by
Re:so i can't make a clock with no numbers? (Score:5, Insightful)
Re: (Score:3)
um... but round corners is.... well... stupid and shouldn't be patentable. Where as, this is a rather blatant, and obvious direct copy of a piece of artwork. Whomever owns that clock design should sue the shit out of apple.
I am not standing up for Apple. I do not like what Apple is doing, but still, we need to be able to differentiate who's the original culprit in this case.
Anyone can try their luck and apply for whatever lame patents based on whatever lame claim that they can come up with
It's the patent office that has absolutely fucked up for awarding lame patents such as that rectangle with rounded corners patent to Apple.
As for the clock design, yes, Apple must be sued for infringing on the copyrig
Re:so i can't make a clock with no numbers? (Score:5, Insightful)
Yes, because Apple is totally absolved from trying that idiotic stunt, just because they didn't get away with it.
Re: (Score:3, Insightful)
Yes, because Apple is totally absolved from trying that idiotic stunt, just because they didn't get away with it.
If you wish to try and pin absurd and idiotic on a company when it comes to patent litigation, take a number and get in fucking line.
I'm not fanboi, but common sense is lacking in every damn direction in and around patent law.
Go figure the only ones truly enjoying themselves (and getting absurdly rich) are the lawyers...they wouldn't have it any other way.
Re:so i can't make a clock with no numbers? (Score:5, Insightful)
Different corporations have different personalities. Not like people, but there are still things you expect from apple more than from google, for example. Case in point, apple have a borderline OCD-type control-freak personality. There relation to what they consider theirs is very much akin to the relation between Gollum and the One Ring...
So yeah, you should hit harder on Apple for their dumb lawsuits, because they don't just do it to maximise their profit. They do it out of spite, way beyond what makes any kind of financial sense. Also, they always have been like this: MS won the desktop wars in the 90s because they were more open. Microsoft. Because they needed Open Source to not die, they had to do things that run completely against their DNA. Thus the KHTML-Webkit debacle. Thus their pushing LLVM. They cannot cooperate: they need to control. People, I think, are waking up to that.
Google is not like that. Their crazy obsession is knowing everything about you in a sort of creepy-voyeur kind of way. They see themselves as a benevolent Big Brother. This is a completely different kind of psychopathology. They will give you a gigabit connection to the internet and let you do anything with it. But you have to share your pr0n with them...
Mine --- (Score:5, Interesting)
Back in the US railroad days there was a tycoon named Collis Huntington. He was known to be ruthless and greedy - kind of the same OCD type as Steve Jobs. Huntington is quoted as saying (more or less):
All I want is what's mine. Whatever is not nailed down is mine. If I can pry it loose, it was not nailed down.
Re:Mine --- (Score:5, Funny)
Wow. Good thing we reined in the Robber Barons. Think how bad it would get if corporations had the same rights as people, or were allowed to make unlimited political donations! Oh, wait...
Re: (Score:3)
Re: (Score:2)
If you want to nail apple for something, use one of the rediculous patents that actually held up in court.
Or one of the ones they unsucessfully tried to get upheld.
Re: (Score:2, Offtopic)
Well; perhaps I was a little too caustic in my response. I think I understand your reaction better now - you were responding as though the second poster was making a statement of fact.
I think you over-reacted. "Troll" implies intent. You admit in your own post that a little-reported aspect of the case is that the rounded-corners bit was not upheld in the case (and I'm only taking you at your word here as I truly do not know), and yet you seem to assume that the poster knows this and is trying to mislead and
Re:so i can't make a clock with no numbers? (Score:4, Informative)
I'm not defending Apple, they are pursuing a strategy and will reap whatever comes, and deservedly so. Willful ignorance just irritates me.
No that's not entirely true: (Score:5, Informative)
Apple did win some of the design claims, including the front face and bezel etc.
http://thenextweb.com/apple/2012/08/24/a-verdict-reached-jury-apple-v-samsung-case/ [thenextweb.com]
For the infringement of the D’677 patent, covering the front face of the iPhone, Samsung was found to infringe on all devices aside from the Ace. On the D’087 patent, relating to the back of the iPhone, all Samsung devices aside from the S 4G and Vibrant only were found to infringe.
On the D’305 patent, all Samsung devices were found to infringe. That’s the design of Apple’s iOS icons. The jury also felt that Samsung should have known that the icons were being copied
..
Trade Dress
Samsung could not prove that the ’893 trade dress on the iPhone 3G was not protectable. The iPhone 3G trade dress was found to be diluted by many of Samsung’s products, despite not being registered. Only the Captivate, Charge, Epic 4G, Galaxy S 2, Skyrocket, Infuse and Epic 4G touch were found not to dilute the 3G’s trade dress.
The Galaxy S 4G, one of Samsung’s flagship devices, was found to dilute the trade dress of the iPhone 3G, cranking up the damages numbers quite a bit.
Re: (Score:2)
Re: (Score:3)
If the only "clue" as to illegal immigration was the "look" and accent of the person in question, then that would similarly be insufficient to generate sufficient suspicion (theoretically, according to the law).
What other criteria are supposed to be used by police to stop people and demand documents?
Re: (Score:3)
My point is that before police can determine if someone lacks any kind of documentation, or speak any language, they have to stop him and demand the ID.
First and foremost:
Unless cops will decide to stop and harass people at random (and they will never dare), they have to decide whom to stop and whom to leave alone.
Since there is no criterion available to them other than perceived race, cops have to either refuse to enforce this law, intentionally harass people who can't possibly be immigrants, or engage in
Re: (Score:2)
So if I'll go to New Mexico and leave my stupid green card at home (What, someone carries those things? They are nearly impossible to replace if lost!), police will harass me and put me in jail until I'll find a lawyer who will go to California, take it from my home and bring it for them to see?
I don't look like Mexican.
Re: (Score:2)
s/New Mexico/Arizona/
Re:so i can't make a clock with no numbers? (Score:5, Insightful)
Is that the only aspect of the design you noticed? That it has no numbers? No, Apple is making an exact copy of every single visual element of the clock, minus the logo. That's what's wrong.
Re:so i can't make a clock with no numbers? (Score:4, Insightful)
Is that the only aspect of the design you noticed? That it has no numbers? No, Apple is making an exact copy of every single visual element of the clock, minus the logo. That's what's wrong.
Look, seriously, give it up. That's an Apple fanboy you're arguing with. Strawmanning is the LEAST of their problems. You're never going to get through to him. Best to just let him be and watch with amusement as he repeatedly brings up double standards between The Word Of Jobs and the rest of the planet.
Re:so i can't make a clock with no numbers? (Score:4, Funny)
I think that's Peyton's other brother.
Re: (Score:2)
Re:so i can't make a clock with no numbers? (Score:5, Insightful)
Re:so i can't make a clock with no numbers? (Score:5, Insightful)
That's exactly what I thought. Even the red second hand - the most recent change - was added in 1953. But then I realized that Mickey Mouse is still in copyright as well. Weird, weird world we live in.
Re:so i can't make a clock with no numbers? (Score:5, Informative)
Exactly what I thought when I read the article. How long can the copyright on the design of a clock last? If it's 70 years, then it'll still be protected for 11 more years.
But then, it's also a trademark. I don't know swiss law, but trademarks are usually allowed to be renewed forever... If that's the case with this clock, then nobody will be able to ever make a clock that looks like this one without paying the Swiss Railway.
Re:so i can't make a clock with no numbers? (Score:4, Insightful)
The design is also trademarked. That's a different kettle of fish. How old is the trademarked shape of the Coke bottle?
Re:so i can't make a clock with no numbers? (Score:5, Informative)
The design is also trademarked. That's a different kettle of fish. How old is the trademarked shape of the Coke bottle?
Mod parent up.
Trademarks and trade dress expire only when you fail to defend them. The term is trademark dilution.
Put a beverage in a waisted bottle and watch CocaCola successfully sue your ass, just like they have done before. It doesn't have to be identical.
These things however require active defence. The Swiss Railway must defend their mark. If they allow this then the mark is diluted and they lose ownership.
This is not new. Just because "trade dress" is a new concept here (partly due to the inappropriate (in my view) use of the term "patent", does not make it new.
The same rules required Apple to sue to protect their design.
I wonder if Samsung actually understand the concept of "trade dress" and it's long (European) well defined legal status (in case law as opposed to statute).
I would bet that the CocaCola execs were completely happy with the Samsung Vs Apple verdict.
Re: (Score:2)
You live by the sword...
No you don't. I have a design patent on two-edged handheld weapons with jeweled hilts and a finger guard.
Re:so i can't make a clock with no numbers? (Score:5, Insightful)
Maybe they did think it was public domain due to its age. Maybe the manager who approved the design didn't even know about the swiss clock in question. Mistakes happen. What matters now is not that a copy was made, but what will be done about it. Will Apple change their design to a non-infrigning one, will they attempt to license the design, or will they force a lawsuit by insisting that the clock design isn't protected like Swiss Railway asserts it is? Only under that scenario can you compare Apple in this case to Samsung in Apple v. Samsung.
Re: (Score:3, Interesting)
Listen, it's simple, noddy.
Switzerland relies heavily on horology to earn foreign currency.
The Swiss are famous for their timepieces, there are countless fakes, and the Swiss export trade group spends millions hunting down the fakes and confiscating them, punshing those who claim to produce "Swiss made" watches or anything bearing the Swiss flag.
They MUST sue Apple for this blatant attempt to claim affiliation with the Swiss brand, or they lose the right to punish anyone else for doing similar.
They must def
Re: (Score:3)
I guess UPS owes them royalties from the shape of boxes I get.
Wish I had mod points.
Re:Great artists steal. (Score:5, Insightful)
Re: (Score:3, Funny)
The design is already trademarked by the SBB. Did you not read the article? Oh yeah, this is Slashdot.
Re:Great artists steal. (Score:5, Insightful)
The comment was intended as a humorous stab at Apple.... here have this clue, I have a few of extras.
Re: (Score:2)
Trademarked where? This is a trivial issue as I see it. License or redesign.
Still, Apple can simply change the design elements to avoid "a copy". This is done all the time and there have to be hundreds of clock face variants of simple numberless designs.
Re:Great artists steal. (Score:5, Funny)
So until Apple does redesign the clock, a world wide ban on shipments is in order, right?
WWAD?
(What Would Apple Do?)
Re:Great artists steal. (Score:4)
Re:Great artists steal. (Score:5, Funny)
Great artists steal. Really bad artists steal while simultaneously suing other artists for stealing.
Re: (Score:2)
But their copyrights are a different matter. Can you copyright something as common as a clockface? I'm no Apple fanboi, but this seems a real stretch. How about street signs? Google street views?
C'mon. We've past the ludicrous and have ventured into the surreal.
Re: (Score:2)
But their copyrights are a different matter. Can you copyright something as common as a clockface? I'm no Apple fanboi, but this seems a real stretch. How about street signs? Google street views?
For a clockface: Should be no problem to get a trademark, if it looks sufficiently distinctive and identifies your company or product. There are gazillions of ways to design a clock face in distinctive ways. With Google street views I'd think that each individual photograph is protected by copyright, but anyone has exactly the same right as Google to take photos of exactly the same location.
Re: (Score:2)
I have a bunch of watches; I rarely wear them anymore. Each one is different. I can't know what was in the Apple artist's mind. If it's a design that was indeed ripped from the face of a Swiss Clock, and that clock face is legally copyrighted, then perhaps there's a problem-- but the bigger problem is that a clock face is copyrightable in the first place.
What's next, stop signs? Certainly not. Warning labels? Puhleeze.
Re: (Score:2)
Re:Difference is direct competition! (Score:5, Interesting)
Actually, some swiss guy asked the swiss federal railroad if he can use the design for an according app in the AppStore. The swiss federal railroad gave him permission to do so.
Now comes Apple and rips off the design also - so there is a direct competition between the app developer and Apple.
Re:No no no (Score:5, Funny)
Isn't a train a mobile device.
Re: (Score:2)
Re: (Score:2)
Re: (Score:2)
That's not the original, but a licensed copy.
Anyway, I think Apple will just remove the circle tip of the second hand, and that should make it sufficiently different. It is only the icon, not the clock, and the hands are actually shaped slightly differently already.
Re: (Score:2)
Joke apart; while Apple have enough money to buy the Swiss Federal Railways anonymous company, the fact that all the shares are owned by the Swiss government will be a definitive showstopper.
Re:My prediction of the oucome (Score:5, Funny)
What kind of education has Apple given you?
Steve Jobs is God. Apple is His sacred realm. Once he realized His job was finished, He departed this world, leaving his trusted prophet Tim Cook in charge of spreading His faith to all non-believers, by whatever means necessary.
He did leave us, mere mortals, with the best advice we have ever received:
It is never a fault of the iDevice in question, it is a shortcoming of its user, who does not know how to operate it correctly.
In its original Jobsian dialect: "You're holding it wrong. Sent from my iPhone."
Re: (Score:2)
Yes. And, IRT Maps, "You're standing in the wrong place."
Re: (Score:2)
its the whole thing that is the problem not bits and pieces.
make a show where the main character travels about in a Box might slide
the Box is Blue
maybe maybe not
it has a white Light on the top
getting dodgy there
The character is English (or some version of Anglo-Saxon)
lets think about it
Breath the two Words TIME TRAVEL
Excuse me I have somebody from BBC legal on line 4 for you
this AS A WHOLE is a deliberate rip-off of the Swiss Train Clock (i would bet it pauses on the 00 second for a fraction of a Tick also)
Re: (Score:2)
You can certainly make a copyrightable whole out of a creative selection of uncopyrightable elements. But it won't necessarily happen. And I think it's questionable as to whether it happened here. And you haven't addressed the utility argument, which IMO is pretty strong.
Also I think you'll find that the Doctor is neither English, nor Anglo-Saxon, nor for that matter, human.
Oh, and the red cross, like the Olympics, is special and isn't handled unde the normal trademark rules.
Re: (Score:2)
Trademarks don't require any of that stuff you mentioned. It simply requires you be the first to use it in your industry. That's it. Sum total of a trademark. I can trademark the word "I Am A Trademark" in times new roman for the "Internet Forum Posting" industry, and as long as nobody else has done it, it's mine. No need to examine prior art, prove novelty, etc. It's a stamp, a logo, a signature -- all it has to be is not used anywhere else prior to registration.
Re: (Score:2)
Actually you don't even have to be the first to use the mark for a particular class of goods and services. Abandoned marks can be claimed by rivals (CAPTAIN MARVEL for comic books is a fun example), and different parties can use the same marks in the same classes simultaneously under certain circumstances. Nor do you need to register marks (although it's a very good idea).
But you can't infringe on a mark unless there is a likelihood of confusion as to the origin of the marked goods or services among the rel
Re:Meh (Score:4, Informative)
The clock's visual appearance is almost, if not entirely, uncopyrightable in the US.
The US DOJ takes down knock-off and counterfeit sites all the time, because design is, indeed, protected.
http://torrentfreak.com/feds-seize-130-domain-names-in-mass-crackdown-111125/ [torrentfreak.com]
http://news.cnet.com/8301-1023_3-20023918-93.html [cnet.com]
Now if justice really was blind, and there was true equality in front of the law, we should see one of these on the apple web site too, not just companies that sell handbags and jerseys.
Re: (Score:2)
No, designs aren't protected except to the extent that they are copyrighted, patented, or trademarked. For example, clothes usually can't be copyrighted, might not be patented, and other than the trademarks sewn on to them (this is why the damn logos are so prominent these days) tend not to be trademarked. Which opens the door to knockoffs that are perfectly legal.
You were looking at counterfeiting, which is basically something that goes beyond mere trademark infringement, in which the counterfeiter deliber
Re:Prior art (Score:4, Informative)
It's from 1944 - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Swiss_railway_clock [wikipedia.org]
Re: (Score:2)
Finds it ridiculous that you can patent a red dot?
They did not patent a red dot. Go look up images of it, they have their own clock face, Apple closely copied it. I don't mean Apple made a red dot, I mean if you take a close look you could come up with a pretty sizable list of what's similar, but not a long list of what's different between the two designs.
I say throw out ALL patents.
I say educate yourself a bit before you go to such an extreme.
Re:And nobody..... (Score:4, Informative)
It's a trademark, not a patent.
Re: (Score:3)
And the really funny thing here is, that these clocks (in use all over Europe by the way, not just in Switzerland) actually *do* run fast.
The seconds dial goes around in (IIRC) 58 seconds, so it stops at the top, where it waits for a central resync.
This has 2 reasons/effects. One is that all clocks are always synced exactly to the minute. The other is that with the dial stopped at the 'minute' mark, the train has 3 seconds to actually leave exactly on time :)