Microsoft Surface Release Date Confirmed 175
twoheadedboy writes "Microsoft is going to release its Surface tablet on the same day Windows 8 goes on general availability, Oct. 26. The news was disclosed in a filing made with the US Securities and Exchange Commission (SEC), which also revealed that the company expects launch and the accompanying marketing to harm its profits. We'll soon find out whether Microsoft has what it takes to take on the seemingly indomitable iPad."
However (Score:5, Funny)
Users will not be allowed to touch their devices until software updates are issued sometime next year.
Apple must be trembling with fear (Score:5, Funny)
Consider how badly Microsoft has hurt Apple in the past with products like:
If Microsoft's tablet has round corners, then we know they will be in serious legal trouble.
Re:Apple must be trembling with fear (Score:4, Interesting)
Windows 3.1 vs the classic Mac System 7
I seem to recall Windows 3.1 being the point where Windows started to dominate the desktop OS market.
And why stop there, what about Windows 95, 98, NT, 2000, XP, 2003, 2008, 7 as compared with Mac OS during those same years? OS X has come a long way, but it still has a long way to go.
(I have a MacBook and I love Mac OS X. But give me a break, at least make your arguments sound.)
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I seem to recall Windows 3.1 being the point where Windows started to dominate the desktop OS market.
Microsoft dominated the desktop OS market ever since the IBM PC. Before that, CP/M dominated. Apple never did dominate the desktop market. They may have dominated the home market in the late '80s, but if so it didn't last long. Most people at home were using TRS-80, Amiga, Commmodore, etc. When DOS PCs were way too expensive for normal people, Apples were even more expensive.
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OS X has come a long way, but it still has a long way to go.
Long way to go for what, market share?
It's pretty clear what Apple's strategy is: sell devices at premium prices to people who value simplicity, stability and reliability over an abundant one-size-fits-all feature set. All they have to do is make quality products and convince the consumer it's worth their premium price. They've done it with the iPhone/iPad thanks to the lower price points and carrier subsidies. The introduction of the Surface shows that MS fears that Apple has already done it for the deskto
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Windows 3.1 vs the classic Mac System 7
I seem to recall Windows 3.1 being the point where Windows started to dominate the desktop OS market
Which it cannibalized from it's command-line OS (MS-DOS) market-share dominance. Fact remains, Microsoft basically inherited dominance of the computing market from IBM who foolishly ceeded rights to Microsoft for their OS - combined with the clones, Apple really didn't stand much of a chance, nor did they ever have much marketshare (despite their mindshare).
Consequently, Apple's vision of post-pc reality is shaped by their previous failure to dominate the direction of computing - through supply-chain wizar
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If Microsoft's tablet has round corners, then we know they will be in serious legal trouble.
The MS tablet will be brown and it'll "squirt". Remember the Zune? Wasn't very ipod like.
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If Microsoft's tablet has round corners, then we know they will be in serious legal trouble.
The MS tablet will be brown and it'll "squirt". Remember the Zune? Wasn't very ipod like.
It will also have frequent core dumps.
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If Microsoft's tablet has round corners, then we know they will be in serious legal trouble.
The MS tablet will be brown and it'll "squirt". Remember the Zune? Wasn't very ipod like.
It will also have frequent core dumps.
Please refrain from using Unix terminology. Windows 8 will be equipped with Dr Watson Sr. That's what you should call the equivalent of a core dump now.
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Wasn't that much worse? The window manager was fucking horrible compared to the Macs and Amigas that I was used to..
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Wasn't that much worse? The window manager was fucking horrible compared to the Macs and Amigas that I was used to..
It still is to a large enough extent.
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Apple was never in that shape. They had billions in the bank. The issue was MS continuing Office support
“We were 90 days from going bankrupt.” - Steve Jobs [thenextweb.com].
More details. [businessinsider.com] and from a Mac fan site perspective [lowendmac.com]
So basically, yes, they were in that shape, no, they did not have billions in the bank.
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90>>'a couple'
So basically no news then? (Score:5, Insightful)
Uhh.. (Score:4, Insightful)
So why the fuck is this under apple.slashdot.org? Maybe it's time for /. to be slightly less biased and add a ms.slashdot.org?
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The AC makes a point. WTF?
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So why the fuck is this under apple.slashdot.org? Maybe it's time for /. to be slightly less biased and add a ms.slashdot.org?
You're a funny guy. Have a cigar.
Rule 1: Copy your competitor (Score:3)
Let them make the mistakes. Go cheap. Go even cheaper.
It worked quite well with Windows. It failed with the Zune.
It will fail with this release of Surface also.
Asking all your customers to buy a new copy of MS Office? Not a great idea.
I loved the MS idea of a fully collaborative,contextually aware, common screen surface.
If they could get that working outside of marketing videos, cheap enough for the consumer, it could be quite fun.
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I know lots of corporate people that have been banging their head against the wall trying to integrate iPADS and plan on gobbling Surface tablets up as soon as they are released.
Not gonna happen. (Score:5, Funny)
> We'll soon find out whether Microsoft has what it
> takes to take on the seemingly indomitable iPad.
Spoiler: No.
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By "soon" they must mean within the next millisecond? Retrospectively over the past 20 years? Are they actually suggesting that we need to wait a few months and examine empirical data, otherwise there is some sort of doubt regarding the outcome? Microsoft investors believe it is worth spending hundreds of millions of dollars over a year or two of going through the motions in order to be certain that the answer is a clear-cut "no?" Why don't they just give me the money? I can fuck things up just as well as t
Both of them? (Score:2)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0-pMZd1fupw
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Except that MS isn't competing with the ipad (Score:5, Insightful)
Re:Except that MS isn't competing with the ipad (Score:5, Insightful)
The niche between the iPad niche and the ultrabook niche? Must have been a genius who came up with this.
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Microsoft is happy with niche markets now? Back in 2009, Balmer said I'm glad we're doing a great job with the other 96 and a half percent." [cnet.com] We was perfectly fine with Apple having their little three and a half percent.
Of course, this isn't the first niche MS has tried to carve out. The Zune wasn't competing with iPods, it was a whole new niche of social media players. Just like that amazing niche market of social phones served by the KIN line.
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The problem with that argument is that the Surface tablet runs WinRT, which can't join Windows domains. (The more expensive Surface Pro is an x86 tablet that can, but if they're aiming for business use, why even bother with the cheaper offering that doesn't do what is needed?)
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Simple - home/casual users. Like the Ipad.
But that raises the obvious question: why would home/casual users want to choose the Surface over the iPad? It won't be much cheaper (if any), it won't have nearly as many apps available, and it won't be considered as cool or stylish. The iPad is already the de facto standard tablet, and Microsoft faces a steep uphill climb if they want to dislodge it. Between the iPad on the high end and the various cheap Android tablets (Kindle Fire, Nexus 7) on the low end, whe
Re:Except that MS isn't competing with the ipad (Score:4, Insightful)
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"low-end" refers to price.
Mustangs have big powerful engines but they are "low-end" vehicles when it comes to comfort and safety.
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Its funny to see you categorize the nexus 7 as low end, since every performance related spec exceeds that of the ipad.
Not the one that really counts: the iPad 3 has a 9.7-inch screen with a 2048x1536 resolution (264 ppi), while the Nexus 7 has a 7-inch screen with a 1280x800 resolution (216 ppi). Since a tablet is pretty much all screen from a UI perspective, this difference is far more important than having a slightly faster CPU. (Not to mention that iOS is often considered a more polished user interface
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You're basically using it to look at pix and videos. I don't care if you've got a 20 inch screen with 4096 x 3072 resolution, the YouTube vid your friend links to from facebook is not going to look any better.
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Not the one that really counts: the iPad 3 has a 9.7-inch screen with a 2048x1536 resolution (264 ppi), while the Nexus 7 has a 7-inch screen with a 1280x800 resolution (216 ppi).
You realize most people aren't even going to be able to tell the difference between 216 and 264 ppi? And i'll bet it didn't really 'count' before the ipad3, it certainly hasn't been a driver in the PC market either and now all of a sudden it's the be all and end all to have the highest pixel density!
I'm reminded of the digital camera megapixel gold rush a few years ago. Never mind that your camera had a tiny plastic lens and was made out of milk carton quality materials, as long as it had +1m more megapixels than another camera it had to be better.
Incidentally, now that the cameras in smartphones are better quality than 99% of people need, I assume the whole market for cheap digital cameras has evaporated except for throwaway priced kids' cameras?
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But that raises the obvious question: why would home/casual users want to choose the Surface over the iPad?
Speaking personally, the answer would be "because it's not made by fucking Apple" which I don't suppose is going to down too well in the apple.slahdot.org section.
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Sure they are... (Score:5, Insightful)
they just won't admit it because everyone wants a slice of that pie but most cannot even get to the table.
MS's other issue is that if rumors hold true a new smaller iPad hits stores in September. I still think MS blew it by announcing a product they could ship at the time they announced it.
Rule #1 now is, do not announce what is not shipping now. Apple already exploits the magic in that phrase, NOW SHIPPING
No, I disagree (respectfully) (Score:3)
The parent poster is putting forth a sound theory, but I'm going to have to disagree with it.
Ultimately, the problem is, I don't think most people see the tablet form-factor as ideal. It's great in certain scenarios, which happen to be the ones traditional desktop or portable computers fail at. (I'm talking about such things as trying to use one while lying in bed, or while standing up and walking around. I'm also talking about comfortably reading for extended periods of time while seated in any random cha
Re:No, I disagree (respectfully) (Score:5, Interesting)
Logically, nothing. Practicality, sometimes it is the small thing. When looking for my latest vehicle I was dead set on a hatchback for that extra storage if needed. I have a desktop, laptop, and tablet. Each has their place. You accept this already. I am excited over Surface (at least Surface RT) despite owning a iPad already.
Why migrate away from the "iPad" standard?
1) The freaking stylus. I get Jobs hated styluses because he never got over the period you were forced to use them. I get everyone wants to copy his "genius". Still, there are times when I want to write on my digital tablet like it is actually a tablet. Using my finger on an iPad feels like I'm writing out notes with a highlighter. Using a third party stylus feels like a crayon. Microsoft is recognizing some of us want to use pens. Maybe I'm wrong, but this is something that I haven't seen in Android or iOS yet.
2) Why I say Surface RT and not just Surface. Same operating system as my computer at home. I can use the same software. Sure, it may not be wise to install Steam and/or Photoshop to this thing. At least I know I can readily chance between them with similar environments with programs I use across each.
Why not an ultrabook?
1) I don't own one. My laptop was my main computer before I admitted I needed something with more power for my photo/video editing jobs. I see laptops as portable home offices. Ultrabooks are too small for my taste as a laptop. To me, Ultrabooks are like the GMS Caballero. Some look cool, but in the end if I want a vehicle with a bed I'd be looking at a truck. Not a car.
2) There are times when having an ultrabook might be useful. The Surface RT is a tablet that can become an impromptu ultrabook much easier than any ultrabook I've seen so far can become an impromptu tablet. I like that little keyboard cover. If needed, it is there. If not? Hey, just fold it out of the way. It has just enough form factor to feel like real keys instead of pecking at glass.
tl;dr:
So to get back to a car analogy. I see the ultrabook as trying to be a GMC Caballero. The iPad and most tablets as simply being cars or compact cars with trunks. I see the Surface RT as a hatchback car. Sometimes you need that versatility.
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Why migrate away from the "iPad" standard?
1) The freaking stylus. I get Jobs hated styluses because he never got over the period you were forced to use them. I get everyone wants to copy his "genius". Still, there are times when I want to write on my digital tablet like it is actually a tablet. Using my finger on an iPad feels like I'm writing out notes with a highlighter. Using a third party stylus feels like a crayon. Microsoft is recognizing some of us want to use pens. Maybe I'm wrong, but this is something that I haven't seen in Android or iOS yet.
They're out there [slashdot.org], at least for Android. And they're sooo much better than crayons :)
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Why I say Surface RT and not just Surface. Same operating system as my computer at home. I can use the same software.
I think you may be confused, because you can't do what you're claiming. Unless things have changed, RT is the brain-damaged one that can only run Metro apps, 'pro' is probably the one you're thinking of.
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D**m it. You're right. Long day, and my brain was a bit addled.
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No problem, just as long as you end up with the right one...
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No problem, just as long as you end up with the right one...
For "right one" you can presumably read "expensive one".
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So to get back to a car analogy. I see the ultrabook as trying to be a GMC Caballero.
If that's the case, then how come all the laptop vendors are pushing to make their laptops look and feel like a Macbook Air? I have a feeling your analogy doesn't hold.
You can make a 11" MB Air (or equivalent ultrabook or even souped up netbook) be as responsive as a much larger laptop. In fact, given it only comes with a (very fast) SSD, it's a given that it will outperform almost any non-SSD laptop when it comes to anything processing even mildly relying on storage speed (even compared with the MB Pro).
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I still don't get the idea of a pen-based or touch-based laptop.
It's simple: capacitative touchscreens are the work of the devil. They are slow and unwieldly and inaccurate and frustrating and annoying.
A device for looking at pictures or playing videos isn't a computer. Personally, I find those electronic photoframes easier to navigate than a fucking iPad.
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Marketing campaign started too early? (Score:2)
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Re:Marketing campaign started too early? (Score:4, Insightful)
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And he revealed how many details exactly about this new phone?
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Prices (Score:3)
Why did they want to call it "surface"? (Score:3)
I understand they've renamed their table computer, but I don't think I've ever seen any explaination on what motivated them to want to change the name of that and call their new tablet "Surface" instead.
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I understand they've renamed their table computer, but I don't think I've ever seen any explaination on what motivated them to want to change the name of that and call their new tablet "Surface" instead.
They are hoping it wont be in the red, the want to break even, get their head above the "surface" of the water to not drown?
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I understand they've renamed their table computer, but I don't think I've ever seen any explaination on what motivated them to want to change the name of that and call their new tablet "Surface" instead.
That was my thought exactly! When I first heard that they would be coming out with the Surface, I was all "ooh, table-sized touch interfaces are finally on the way! Hello new coffee/gaming table!"
The return to reality was quite a letdown...seriously, board games and RPGs could be so much fun on one of those things :(
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I thought that was pretty obvious.
Microsoft has just stepped hard on their OEMs' feet. Many of the companies with which Microsoft does business are not happy that Microsoft is now going to be competing with them in this product space, and Microsoft will have a huge advantage because MS makes the OEMs pay a lot for the software. So the whole Surface project was wrapped in secrecy for as long as possible.
If MS had filed for a new trademark on "MS KeyTablet" or something, that would have tipped their hand ea
But does it run Linux? (Score:5, Interesting)
What we've so far seen from Win8 (Metro) is on a regular PC possibly a pig but that does not yet make it good on a tablet.
Looking at the hardware I feel it would be really sweet with the tablet version of KDE.
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surface pro will(most probably, 99.999% chance). surface rt will not.
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One potential benefit of Suface (Score:2)
A trivial issue with the problems with the mouse - fire up a web browser and cursor over a link. Does the link change shape? Of course not. Does the transformer offer any tools to change the sensitivity of the trackpad to prevent
no (Score:2)
We don't have to wait. We already know that they don't. This time, however, we don't even have to fight over that, as MS Surface isn't even competing with the iPad. It's targeting a different segment of the same market, but very few people who buy iPads would even consider the MS tablet.
You know, the same way that a Mercedes E and a VW Beetle don't really compete with each other even though both are cars.
We All Win (Score:5, Insightful)
I'm cheering for Microsoft.
Competition is good.
I purchased an iPad 1, used it for less than two months and sold it to a friend for half what I paid for it. I wanted it to be so much more than it was - more than they still are. Steve gave his amazing presentation, I swooned - I drank the kool-aid. I was Captain Picard, carrying my StarFleet tablet around. Then I bought one.
They are just 10" iPod Touches.
I wanted to be able to prop it up and type papers on it. I purchased the sleek 3rd party bluetooth keyboard/case combo. They keys were a compromise, tiny, poor travel, poor to type on. So I bought the Apple wireless keyboard. Apple's Pages software was friendly, and easy to use, but failed utterly to have any true usefulness in a world where Microsoft Word so utterly dominates academia or corporate America. Printing was a nightmare. Moving documents to my PC required iTunes syncing. .. iTunes..?? The music store software? What kind of "computer" was this!? My dream of a sleek, cool Sci-Fi space man computer was dashed as I realize the iPad is little more than a toy for reading Facebook on the toilet and clumbsily tapping in replies to emails from your sofa at a blistering 15 words per minute.
A sleek tablet with integrated, nearly full-size keyboard/cover and full, actual Microsoft Office built in?? A solid, well-engineered stand that folds out of the tablet to support it without needing to buy a pile of 3rd party cases, folios, etc. ? Be still my heart.
Touch is awesome. Touch is great for web surfing and watching cat videos on YouTube. Touch, paired with NO keyboard or keyboard and a very lightweight word processing app was absolutely useless. The keyboard is an order of magnitude more efficient for actually doing WORK.
The Surface tablet brings us so much closer to the dream of the all-in-one small, lightweight portable computer. I have hated Micro$oft as much as any other linux-using, Android using Slashdot reader. But I am cheering for them on this one. I hope the Surface takes it to Apple, and takes it to them hard.
Competition is good.
Re:We All Win (Score:4, Interesting)
I'm with you on this one.
I won't be buying a Surface until I see if it fulfills some of its promise, but if it does, I will be all over it.
I don't want to have a laptop/desktop and a tablet. I am trying to simplify the number of devices I am trying to maintain and synchronize and even if I need to use a dock of some sort for a bigger screen etc at work - I like what the Surface Pro potentially offers.
Being able to do actual work on it when need be, take advantage of existing applications, and then switch to tablet mode when I want to sit and read an ebook/watch a video/surf the web on the couch is a great setup.
I think it will be difficult for them to pull off but I am hoping they can do it.
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That's a pretty big exception. Have you ever tried to use the available office suites for Android? No comparison whatsoever with MS Office.
An Android tablet just wouldn't be my first choice for work. Transferring files to a computer and back? There are GUI file browsers that do that, but they're all pretty clunky (and though I haven't tried it, I assume even clunkier with keyboard/mouse). Printing isn't straight-forward. Coding? Hah. And keyboard/mouse support within apps is all over the map. I can get work
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That's a pretty big exception
I suppose. Not having used MS Office since about 2002, it doesn't affect me much :-)
Currently, I do all of my office suite work with Google Docs, and it works very well (of course, I work for Google, so I don't have to exchange MS Office files with others).
Transferring files to a computer and back?
Google Drive. All your files in all your devices, all the time. Works really well (other than I'm anxiously awaiting a Linux client). Or you could use Dropbox or similar -- which has a Linux client, actually.
Printing isn't straight-forward.
Google Cloud Print makes it very straight
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Currently, I do all of my office suite work with Google Docs, and it works very well (of course, I work for Google, so I don't have to exchange MS Office files with others).
I use LibreOffice and I don't normally have to exchange MS Office files with others either. That doesn't mean I think Google Docs on Android is an Office replacement. It's not equivalent feature-wise, and last time I used the Android app it was even more limited, slow, and clunky than the web app. I do use Google Docs for some collaborative documents, I don't think it's useless, but it's not MS Office.
Google Drive. All your files in all your devices, all the time. Works really well (other than I'm anxiously awaiting a Linux client). Or you could use Dropbox or similar -- which has a Linux client, actually.
That's nice, but I wasn't really talking about cloud solutions. Sometimes, you know, I don't want to use th
Re:We All Win (Score:4, Interesting)
Back when the iPad was first released, I couldn't believe anybody would want to own one, let alone find a use for it. Turned out my geek sense was horribly wrong and SJ managed to create a new market. There is a huge swath of people that only want a computing device to only do 3 or 4 things. That's what the iPad does and it does it well. Apple is famous for getting the little details right. I'd say the videos that I've seen of grandmas and grandpas using it without any instruction is a pure win.
Microsoft is betting there is another emerging market out there. I saw the keynote where Ballmer, etc. demonstrated the Surface. If they truly have their act together and have put some serious attention on the "little details"and integrated in their office products into the a functional and smart device that is enterprise friendly, then they could very well have a winner here. The bet is since Apple is not very enterprise friendly, businesses will purchase these by the quarterly budget load once it has been verified that it can do a good job for business type folks. I wish them well. Competition is good and all that.
Personally, I won't be using one, but then I am not their target demographic - in my opinion. I am the DIY computer geek. I'll always own my own full fledged computer with all its unfettered glory so I can do all the stuff that I do on a daily basis because I enjoy doing programmery and integration type stuff.
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I've been using W8RP on an Acer W500. This unit is thick, slow, with an outdated touch panel that leads to various quirks doing gestures.
And yet, I've found even this substandard tablet is transformed into something quite usable with Win8. Once I became accustomed to Win8's general flow, I've been a happy camper. The swipe-ins became second nature, and browsing has been mostly a joy. And plugging it into my 24" monitor via HDMI? Works great, and things like Blender, Gimp, and Handbrake all work. Strangely e
Re:Isn't there a "late to the game" borderline? (Score:5, Interesting)
Yeah I guess that didn't work for IBM, HP, Dell, Sony, Acer, Asus, Samsung and hundreds of other computer OEMs after Apple released their first PC back in the 70's.
It's just been two years since the iPad release. It takes a decade for things to settle down. I think by 2016 or so all cells phones will look and perform the same. It will always come down to software and it's developers. The tablet "wars" will be hashed out by 2020 and will probably all look the same and perform the same.
Look at history to predict the future. Back in the late 80s and most of the 90s each computer OEM had their own take on what a computer should look like till we entered the beige box era. History will repeat itself again.
Re:Isn't there a "late to the game" borderline? (Score:5, Insightful)
The tablet world is relatively young and there is no sign whatsoever that people are bored by iOS or Android. You are comparing the situation over decades. It is iOS and in lesser extend Android that get's all the love from developers, I don't really hear a lot of enthusiasm for Windows RT. I develop apps and I don't care, let alone that my clients care. And apps is what can make and break a platform. It is also a lot easier to shell out 99$ for developer license and that for a platform that has proven itself, then something that is very questionable to say the least.
The only people I do know that are enthusiastic about Microsoft tablets offering are the typical Microsoft people. The kind that get their trousers wet when they hear things like "exchange", "sharepoint","office",... . Those guys that have such a tremendous thrilling life that girls fall on their feet when they spread their theory about how integration with exchange will make Microsoft conquer the tablet space. Or my favorite "it comes with office", because that is really a fun factor... .
The only enthusiastic things I hear about those tablets are about the integration with current Microsoft software and that for 99% in the work space environment. And while Apple does have an enterprise program (which is btw not that strict), I think it is safe to say that most of their tablets are sold to consumers.
That group of people where Microsoft isn't a strong brand or where consumers have a lot of confidence in. I once had a friend who tried to argue that because most people used windows on their pc, it is a "strong" and "popular" brand. The difference is that for PC (especially if you like gaming) you don't have a lot of choice, in tablet space it is a complete other story.
I'm even sure that this was a wake up call for Microsoft and is the reason why they try to shove down "Metro" and their "unified" vision down our throat. That in the hope that familiarity will influence the choice people make when buying a new tablet. I know a lot of people who replaced their PC with a tablet or are using the PC a lot less since they have a tablet. I think for the general population that does some surfing, e-mailing and simple games a tablet can be good enough. And that is a big threat for Microsoft when the dominant tablets don't have a Microsoft operating system on board.
For the more boring environments like most businesses they have a change, in consumer space I don't see it happening. I know it is popular to predict doom and gloom, but if you think about it Microsoft is facing the biggest threat it has in years or even decades.
Re:Isn't there a "late to the game" borderline? (Score:5, Interesting)
The only enthusiastic things I hear about those tablets are about the integration with current Microsoft software and that for 99% in the work space environment.
Which is microsoft's whole deal, where the money is, and the way into the market. With office 2013 they're pushing to make home a lot more like enterprise. If people can understand what features they get, and how to use them then suddenly it becomes a compelling product. Of course no one outside of MS HQ really understands everything you can do with office, so that barrier to entry is probably insurmountable. However, students will find a lot of enterprise features really useful, and the computer illiterate would find things like cloud storage useful for when they kill their computers and don't have to copy everything over, but they're computer illiterate and can't take advantage of those features.
The other thing to keep in mind is that Surface is supposed to be significantly more capable as a content creation product than ipads and android tablets which are basically content consumption devices. There is a market there, unfortunately Windows 8 is sufficiently terrible that I'm not sure anyone really wants windows 8 devices.
With all of this it's about building the critical mass to get developers on board to make compelling software you can't get elsewhere. MS seems to have a vision for a combined windows 8 family across phones desktop and tablets, but the base of that visions is windows 8 which is terrible. That doesn't mean there isn't something they could do that would make the whole thing really compelling though, I just doubt their users could manage it.
Keep in mind Apple only sold 40 million iPads in 2011. That seems like a lot compared to say... android tablets. But windows 7 sells about 240 million copies a year. If they can present it as easier to use, easier to connect with the PC etc. people might go for it. Lots of people are completely baffled by iPads (seems odd, I know) but those people don't *have* iPads. Of course those people also aren't going to have a clue how to use windows 8 either, but there's probably 200 million customers who's needs aren't served by iPads or android and MS is figuring they could eat up a chunk of that, though admittedly, they'll cannibalize some of their own laptop sales with surface.
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the computer illiterate would find things like cloud storage useful for when they kill their computers and don't have to copy everything over, but they're computer illiterate and can't take advantage of those features.
What is so difficult about using SkyDrive?
There is a market there, unfortunately Windows 8 is sufficiently terrible that I'm not sure anyone really wants windows 8 devices.
Windows 8 puts the application --- the task --- front and center.
Not the browser. Not the desktop.
That may be closer to the truth of how ordinary people are using their PCs and mobile devices --- and how they want to use them --- then the geek may be willing to accept.
For FOSS it means that the battle for placement on the desktop has ended and the battle for placement in the app store has begun.
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What is so difficult about using SkyDrive?
Try teaching a 65 year old how to use a TV remote, and then come back and ask that question. Also, Skydrive with it's rather onerous terms of service that will ban your account for profanity make it simply unsuitable for anyone. Even if that wasn't the case, as I say, if you can figure out how to use it (students) it's conceptually a good idea. If you can't figure out what 'files' are, or how to open them, skydrive storing data magically in the cloud may as well be someone offering you a sql server.
Windows 8 puts the application --- the task --- front and center.
No,
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Sure, but you end up with both metro and the desktop in this unwieldy mess. It's not really a problem with keyboard and mouse in metro, it's the same as media centre and it works pretty much the way you'd expect it to, if it stays in one mode or the other.
The problem is that it's not sure what it wants to be.
Don't get me wrong, they've made a lot of technical improvements, but they've combined it with this bizarre design set of design decisions that are just wildly inconsistent, and that's fatal.
Re:Isn't there a "late to the game" borderline? (Score:4, Interesting)
I'm even sure that this was a wake up call for Microsoft and is the reason why they try to shove down "Metro" and their "unified" vision down our throat. That in the hope that familiarity will influence the choice people make when buying a new tablet. I know a lot of people who replaced their PC with a tablet or are using the PC a lot less since they have a tablet. I think for the general population that does some surfing, e-mailing and simple games a tablet can be good enough. And that is a big threat for Microsoft when the dominant tablets don't have a Microsoft operating system on board.
Here Here!
Price is going to be a big factor. The Nexus 7 is $200 and does alot. How much? Enough to make some one wonder if they want to buy 3 Nexus 7's for them, their spouse, and a kid, OR do they want to buy on Surface or other Winsows 8 tablet at $600 plus? The only way that Microsoft adds "value" for an OS that is priced at $50 or $150 is on expensive hardware. If you put Win 8 on the Nexus 7 it would be a $300 tablet. You have to hide the price of Win 8 in the cost of overpriced hardware.
That is not to say there is not value havind a keyboard as well as front and rear facing cameras. Microsoft is betting that someone will look at a Nexus 7 wth no keyboard, front facing camera, scratchable screen at $200 and pass it up for Win 8 tablet at $600. Remember, this is WinRT at $600 and there are more Andriod apps than Win 8 apps and you must trust Microsoft with your cloud info better than you trust google.
The market to me looks like Android owns the sub $400 market, Apple owns the $500 to $900 market and those that absoletely must run a Windows desktop on a tablet might spend $900 + on a Win 8 tablet ... unless they would prefer a $900 Win 7 tablet. After all, one you hit that price point the hadware is goog enough to make Win 7 sing.
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The market to me looks like Android owns the sub $400 market, Apple owns the $500 to $900 market and those that absoletely must run a Windows desktop on a tablet might spend $900 + on a Win 8 tablet ... unless they would prefer a $900 Win 7 tablet. After all, one you hit that price point the hadware is goog enough to make Win 7 sing.
I think there could be a lot of these folks out there. Not IPad-numbers but I think there are a lot of dedicated pc users who wanted the IPad to have a full OS instead of IOS. Microsoft could pick these folks up.
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Sigh.
"Hear, hear!"
Not:
"Here, here"
Where?
There, there.
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Or my favorite "it comes with office", because that is really a fun factor... .
This may come as a surprise but businesses are not about fun.
The fact that Microsoft's tablet will come with Office IS a big deal to a lot of businesses.
I'm not saying this is good, only that it is the case.
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The Apple 1 not only wasn't a PC, it wasn't even a whole computer.
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Others just want a PHONE, something they can make and recieve calls on and don't want a camera, internet, text, or anything else.
In 3 or 4 years (or possibly sooner), that will simply not be an option for the same reason you can't easily buy a dedicated word processor or standard definition TV any more: the fixed overhead of distribution, marketing, warehousing, etc. the more capable product is the same as the less capable product and will completely swamp any differences in manufacturing costs as componen
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In 3 or 4 years (or possibly sooner), that will simply not be an option for the same reason you can't easily buy a dedicated word processor or standard definition TV any more
Well, a dedicated word processor would be the tiniest of niches and cost as much as a full-fledged computer, and a standard definition TV would cost as much to manufacture as a high def one, plus who would want one?
As to a phone that they only want to make and recieve calls, having the other gadgets wouldn't hinder them if the phone was
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Look at history to predict the future. Back in the late 80s and most of the 90s each computer OEM had their own take on what a computer should look like till we entered the beige box era. History will repeat itself again.
This is nothing like the early PC era. There are very few OSes. No one seems to be lean and considering small market share viable. Where are the small startups or other NEW players? If products were sufficiently differentiated with significant useful new added or alternative functionality, new entrants could fetch high enough prices to be viable. With most products attempting a me-too of Apple functionality or appearance, they're doomed to fetch lower prices if they can't quite reach the same bar.
If m
History (was Re:Isn't there a "late to the game..) (Score:5, Informative)
No, Microsoft has been flogging the pen computer game for a _long_ while:
1992 http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Windows_for_Pen_Computing [wikipedia.org]
while Apple only formally got in the game later:
1993 http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/MessagePad [wikipedia.org]
(and then bailed when Steve Jobs came back on board)
Though both were inspired by Go Corp.'s PenPoint:
1991 http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/PenPoint_OS [wikipedia.org]
but one should look farther back still:
1914--1990 http://users.erols.com/rwservices/pens/penhist.html [erols.com]
Microsoft crashed the initial party (read Jerry Kaplan's _StartUp_), partied in a room which quickly emptied, tried to re-start the party many times (sort-of-successfully w/ their Tablet PC in 2002), then was surprised when Apple started a rave (the iPad) somewhere else in town.
If it's possible to install Mac OS X on the Surface, I may buy one.
William
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If it's possible to install Mac OS X on the Surface, I may buy one.
Aside from the fact that you'd be waiting for the x86 version(which was suggested to be launching 90 days after the RT version being discussed in the FA), what good will that do because OS X does not support touch?\
Well, of course you should be able to use it as a more portable Macbook Air, but I guess that's it. Using it as a tablet might be an exercise in frustration.
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well.. there's already 3rd party touch maclaptops. they repurpose apple hw to get around "not on apple hw" legal limitations and practicalities. some people find them useful.
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does anyone even believe there is going to be people queuing up to get a surface? not like they did to get an ipad for sure!
course there are those shills who spend their time wanking to ballmer's photo, those will be seen right there, like a damn gay parade.
Talk about people in glass houses not throwing stones...
An Apple fanboy using being gay and a member of a personality cult as an insult? Priceless.
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It's not Divide and Conquer, it's "Doubling Down." Lets place two bets on the same table with two different strategies. There is no way you CAN lose! ugh.
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If you make equal bets on every space in roulette, you're guaranteed to lose.
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If you make equal bets on every space in roulette, you're guaranteed to lose.
Yes, but you're guaranteed to not lose everything.
Re:Which one? Surface or Surface RT? (Score:5, Interesting)
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The new Intel Medfield processor (X86 based) is very competitive with the ARM architectures when it comes to processing power and battery life. A tablet powered with a Medfield processor should provide plenty of battery life. And since it's X86 based, it'll run all those Windows apps.
Were it that simple - all those apps that are touch-insensitive. Let's face it - customer is screwed if they want existing x86 apps on a tablet - it is not in the interest of Microsoft, nor Intel, nor even the (big) software shops. Which leaves the Metro divide - new hardware (profits for manufacturers and Intel!), new software licenses (yay for software devs - profit!) and new framework that is touch-competetive with Android and iOS (survival for MS's monopoly rents - yay for MS!).
Of course, the alternat
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Please don't feed the trolls, they're all way too fat anyway. You just made a "-1. troll" visible by quoting him! Mods, fix this guy's wagon, please. Biters should be downmodded, just as the trolls themselves.
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Unfortunately they modded me up, I should have been downmodded for being offtopic as well.
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Unfortunately they modded me up, I should have been downmodded for being offtopic as well.
It always seems to me that offtopic should be reserved for a reply that's not relevant to the post it's attached to.
Your first post was technically offtopic because it changed the subject; but our subsequent conversation has been on-topic for the thread, just not for the article...