Samsung Lawyer Fails To Differentiate iPad and Galaxy Tab In Court 495
Several readers sent in a story that's sure to be embarrassing for Samsung. The company has been involved in a drawn-out patent dispute with Apple over similarities between the Galaxy Tab and the iPad. Today, during a court session, U.S. District Judge Lucy Koh held up both objects and asked one of Samsung's attorneys whether she could identify which was which. The attorney replied, "Not at this distance, your honor." The distance was roughly 10 feet. The judge then quizzed the rest of Samsung's lawyers. After a brief hesitation, one of them was able to correctly identify the Galaxy Tab.
Not allowed to look closely? (Score:5, Insightful)
Can't differentiate between the two? (Score:5, Funny)
Other way? (Score:4, Insightful)
For something to be funny, it has to be based in truth... an Android tablet having run out of power rings far more true than the iPad having failed for some reason.
But part of the point of the lawsuits is that even on, most would be hard pressed to tell them apart...
Re:Other way? (Score:5, Insightful)
For something to be funny, it has to be based in truth...
Humor: you're doing it wrong.
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I have no love for Apple. Never made any pretense about that.
However, everybody I know with an Android based phone and tablet have a car adapter, usb adapter, and and plug in adapter (usually just something for the USB to plug into).
I still have a Verizon Storm. Why? I don't need it for anything other than BB messages and email support.
All of my friends and fellow co-workers on Android are *always* running out of power by mid-afternoon..... at best. Using it with the flashlight apps is hilarious. It ha
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You probably should have stuck with railing against smart phones in general.
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I was not railing against either actually.
Just pointing out that Android has more than its share of power usage problems.
I was just confirming to a poster that was saying the same exact thing. Apple and Android suck at power usage.
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It's about the size and what can be rendered, not how fast it works.
Having to zoom in constantly to part of a page and then back out, and then have half the page go away when entering text makes web surfing a bajillion times harder than it needs to be. Just too frustrating for me on a smart phone.
At a minimum, I would need a tablet.
However, short of a Playbook (which is $500 more than I am willing to spend without solid Android app support), every other tablet out there either has a totally fucking ridicul
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Problem is the pocket sized form factor.
Until we have tablets you can wad up or fold to be pocket sized, it will not work for me at all.
The web browsing experience and usability is ruined by how small the screen is, and resolution has diminishing returns at some point, and we have reached it already.
As for other apps, unless they are specifically designed for that form factor you are trying to shove data meant for a different UI into a much smaller compact one. It does not always work very effectively. An
Re:Can't differentiate between the two? (Score:4, Informative)
Well, speaking as an owner of a Tab, he sorta has a point. The odds are pretty good that when you press the power button the word 'Samsung' will fill the screen... because it just rebooted.
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Sounds like it is time to take that aircraft carrier out of your ass.
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Well, it really does depend on the perspective of the reader. Here, I'll translate the joke to you from the point of view of either an iFan or just anybody that uses an iPad:
"You can tell that webserver runs Linux because it isn't working!"
See? There is a group of people that'd find that funny, but there' d also be a group of people, not necessarily limited to fanboys, scratching their heads and wondering how it got modded up.
Re:Can't differentiate between the two? (Score:4, Informative)
Re:Not allowed to look closely? (Score:4, Insightful)
pft I doubt I could tell them apart I've only ever really seen either in a store and they have plenty of signs around them that lets me know just what tablet they are. At ten feet I doubt I could tell them apart, unless the apple one has a logo on the front. After all what's the tell apart, from them? They are both rectangular with rounded corners.
I also couldn't easily identify a Chevrolet Silverado from Ford F150 with out their freaking symbols plastered all over them. I don't see Ford suing Chevy though.
Re:Not allowed to look closely? (Score:4, Insightful)
I could. Easily. I can tell them apart by the sound of the engine, sight unseen, by the shape and spacing of their headlights in my mirrors at night, or by a raft of stylistic details from several blocks away. But, then, *I* like automobiles. These lawyers probably don't care at all about technology. Hold up a $50 and a $5 at 10 feet and I bet they have no trouble at all distinguishing the two.
Re:Not allowed to look closely? (Score:5, Funny)
Hold up a $50 and a $5 at 10 feet and I bet they have no trouble at all distinguishing the two.
Easy [wikipedia.org]. $50s are red. $5s are blue.
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I have both a Tab and an iPad and they are hard to tell apart sometimes. I can think of a couple of times where I've reached for one thinking it was the other.
They are pretty simliar, even at distances closer than 10 feet.
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That probably suggests a lack of an awareness of non-apple tablets rather than anything else ...
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They copied the design, logo, and color scheme for icons.
The logo??? How, exactly, does the word "SAMSUNG" look like an apple with a chunk taken out of it?
There is significant reason to think Samsung tried to confuse consumers.
You really think this? I guess it'd go like this then:
Customer: Hello, good shopkeeper! I would like to buy an Apple iPad please. ... er ... that's just the model of the iPad. It's an Apple SAMSUNG Galaxy Tab iPad, you see ...
Salesman: Certainly sir, here you go.
Customer: But, my good man, why does this box have the words "SAMSUNG" and "Galaxy Tab" upon it?
Salesman: Well
Customer: Oh yes? But where is
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I can tell an iPad and iPad 2 apart at ten feet, Samsung needs lawyers with better perception skills.
I couldn't because I'm not that familiar with them. I might be able to tell you one is different than the other but not which one was which.
When I was a child I was rarely allowed to drink pop/soda/cola. It was a long time before I was able to tell if I was drinking Coke or Pepsi. Most people couldn't tell you which laptop a manufacturer makes without the logo at any distance. It's a silly test [youtube.com].
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The Judge's test is a poor one.
He should have held up some random combinations of ipads and galaxy tabs and asked if he was holding up two of the same thing.
The important part is that they're different, not that you can pick which one is the tab.
That was a horribly shitty experiment.
Re:Not allowed to look closely? (Score:5, Informative)
If you took ANY pre-iPad tablet and tried to tell the difference, it would be simple.
Any pre-iPad tablet? Nonsense!
http://www.2imgs.com/6c941c36e5 [2imgs.com]
Take a look at these three pre-iPad tablets: JooJoo, HP Slate and CrunchPad. They look like iPad "clones" to me. It's astonishing that they were displayed before the iPad was announced. They must have a time machine that can steal Apples designs from the future!
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Big whoop (Score:3, Insightful)
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Tablets existed long before apple made one.
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Because maybe anyone would tell you a carrying handle is a stupid idea?
Apples tablet is a total clone of the old HP Compaq Tablet PC TC1100 without the keyboard. Which slid behind the screen. A silver round cornered tablet.
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The problem is that Apple's form factor and "blank rectangular slab" is not unique nor creative. All you have to do is watch 2001:A Space Odyssey to see a design that is 40 years old. And I'm not talking about the Monolith.
And even then, it's not as if the Dynabook, another 40 year old design, was unknown to Jobs.
And here we are arguing about rounded corners. What the FUCK is so creative about rounded corners and form factor?
There is no IP stealing here because there was no I and no P to steal.
That's wha
Re:Big whoop (Score:4, Informative)
Copied Apple's design?
The ill-fated CrunchPad and JooJoo Pad look nearly identical, black rectangle, rounded corners, etc. Both long before the iPad.
Let's not forget the equally ill-fated HP Slate which looks like a CruchPad or JooJoo tablet -- which we saw at CES 2010 a couple weeks before the iPad made an appearance.
Here's a picture for you: http://www.2imgs.com/6c941c36e5 [2imgs.com]
Are you still sure that they copied Apple? Did they steal a time-machine as well?
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Theres a difference between 'looking like a tablet in general' and 'looking like an iPad'. The difference is much like the difference between a Chevy Impala and a Fiero as a Ferrarri kit car. One is just a fact of design, the other is a blantant attempt to look exactly the same as the superior product.
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That is fanboy cherry picking. Go google tablet PC and check out all the old XP running tablet PCs that looked basically just like an iPad years ago.
I did. Here [wikimedia.org] are [techgenie.com] the [directindustry.com] first [blogcdn.com] five [gadgetholic.net]; tell me which of them looks remotely like an iPad to you?
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The first one, if you had seen it with the keyboard covered up.
http://www.2imgs.com/6c941c36e5 [2imgs.com]
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Tablets existed long before apple made one.
And they didn't look nor work like an iPad.
Good Times. (Score:4, Funny)
No matter how you feel about patents, Apple, or Samsung, this is funny.
Re:Good Times. (Score:5, Insightful)
It is funny that lawyers are that clueless.
The galaxy tab has a dramatically different aspect ratio.
Can you identify the difference between an old fashioned tv and a widescreen tv?
I can and I don't even need to have them sitting next to each other.
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You can, 99% of the population, probably not as the rest of the population doesn't know what 'aspect ratio' even MEANS for the most part.
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Most of those people will think that ANY tablet is an iPad. A black rounded rectangle should not be patentable.
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The galaxy tab has a dramatically different aspect ratio.
Depends on how you hold it.
I suspect shenanigans. Obviously the person holding them up wanted the other guy to get the answer wrong or he wouldn't have done such an obvious ploy.
Well rehearsed viewing angles to hide the aspect ratio? Covering up the logos? Maybe they found out he's short sighted and doesn't wear his glasses in court.
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I agree with you but it's possible the lawyers in question don't even use the tablets or have even seen them outside the case.
Had I been the lawyer I would have answered the judge's silly question with an equally silly question. "Your Honor, you aren't asking me to use the Tablet from 10 feet away are you?". Either that or asked the judge to Identify an Omega watch versus a similar Casio from 10 feet.
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Re:Good Times. (Score:4, Insightful)
Yes, but have Apple actually patented a shape? I don't understand this story.
"Your honour, an 'oblong' appears in Euclid's Elements, Book I, Definition 22:
Of quadrilateral figures, a square is that which is both equilateral and right-angled; an oblong that which is right-angled but not equilateral; a rhombus that which is equilateral but not right-angled; and a rhomboid that which has its opposite sides and angles equal to one another but is neither equilateral nor right-angled. And let quadrilaterals other than these be called trapezia.
(c) Copyright 300 BC, Euclid"
I can hold a book and an iPad and the judge wouldn't be able to tell the difference from a distance. So have Apple copied a book? (answer: yes. That's whole point of a tablet). What did the judge actually prove? That objects with similar functionality are likely to look similar?
If Apple can patent a shape then I'll have the "heart shape" please, and Valentine's day will make me a very rich person indeed.
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If Apple can patent a shape then I'll have the "heart shape" please, and Valentine's day will make me a very rich person indeed.
I'm sure there's prior art for this. Then again I'm sure there's prior art for rectangular objects with rounded corners as well so you may very well be onto something here.
Re:Good Times. (Score:4, Informative)
First-to-file doesn't remove the elimination by prior art.
A person shall be entitled to a patent unlessâ"
(1) the claimed invention was patented, described in a printed publication, or in public use, on sale, or otherwise available to the public before the effective filing date of the claimed invention; or
(2) the claimed invention was described in a patent issued under section 151, or in an application for patent published or deemed published under section 122(b), in which the patent or application, as the case may be, names another inventor and was effectively filed before the effective filing date[3] of the claimed invention.
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Prior art still applies. Prior art must be public. The situation resolved by the new system is this:
Two corps have a secret patent effort. They race to get a patent:
Old system: long court case to prove who invented it first.
New system: first to file wins.
Under both systems, public prior art for the patent invalidates the patent.
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Demonstrating the similarity of the units is just one part of a larger pattern of behavior Apple is trying to show. Their claim is that Samsung violated both regular old hardware patents and design patents on a large number of factors including: "rectangles with rounded corners", "black", "anything with a twelve inch diagonal", "tapering edges to make things seem thinner", "icons", "envelope shaped icons representing mail", "those envelopes being red"
I took the liberty of filling in the details for you, lest anyone be misled into thinking Apple's suit is remotely reasonable.
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Demonstrating the similarity of the units is just one part of a larger pattern of behavior Apple is trying to show. Their claim is that Samsung violated both regular old hardware patents and design patents on a large number of factors including: "rectangles with rounded corners", "black", "anything with a twelve inch diagonal", "tapering edges to make things seem thinner", "icons", "envelope shaped icons representing mail", "those envelopes being red"
That's just part of the trade dress claims, not even all of them. You missed packaging trade dress: "a rectangular box with minimal metallic silver lettering and a large front-viewpicture of the product prominently on the top surface of the box; a two-piece box wherein the bottom piece is completely nested in the top piece; and use of a tray that cradles products to make them immediately visible upon opening the box."
You also lack specificity as those are summaries you quote, not the actual patents which ar
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The box, connector, shape, UI, power brick etc have all been linked on here before several times.
It's really not just one thing, and Apple don't have a patent on a black, rounded rectangle, they have a design patent for the iPad that includes that description as many parts of the whole design. Just that on its own is not enough.
Slabs with LCDs on them similar! News at 11! (Score:2)
Also lots of phones look similar, lots of cars look similar, lots of TVs look similar, lots of computers look similar, lots of monitors look similar...
Who cares?
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Also lots of phones look similar, lots of cars look similar, lots of TVs look similar, lots of computers look similar, lots of monitors look similar...
Who cares?
AppleCare.
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That is the biggest load of bullshit I've ever heard-- MOST creative people do it for the joy of having creating. A minority of them are in it only for the money.
And today that is what we have. A bunch of people who are only in it for the money (many of them creative enough only to purchase patents) suing people who are creative and who likely just though whatever the heck it was is so obvious that it didn't cross their minds that it should be patentable.
Show them the WHOLE device not just the front (Score:2, Redundant)
I wonder if the results would have been any different had the Judge allowed the lawyers to see all 360 degrees of the device, and not just the front. Something tells me the SAMSUNG logo emblazoned on the device would assist in differentiating it from the iPad.
iPad 2 - http://3.bp.blogspot.com/_UTeQhQcvdNU/TPGrM-2_lVI/AAAAAAAAF20/U7xNqZ0as4s/s1600/things-about-apple-ipad-2.jpg [blogspot.com]
Galaxy Tab - http://4.bp.blogspot.com/_UTeQhQcvdNU/TProAcaIpnI/AAAAAAAAF5M/wtS26PrDbeU/s1600/Samsung-Galaxy-Tab-4.jpg [blogspot.com]
Can you tell the
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Yes, the Apple device is a tad wider than the Tab. I mean, besides to logos, the form factors are roughly the same, as a volley ball is roughly the same as a soccer ball.
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Or you could look at the bottom. Only the iPad has the single square button in the center; while the Tab has the 4 android soft buttons. Perhaps the soft buttons are not distinguishable at a far distance, but you could look for the iPad's button.
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Re:Show them the WHOLE device not just the front (Score:4, Interesting)
Find any two white refrigerators of the same size. Remove their logos. Tell them apart at 10 feet away.
Are you one of the lawyers for Apple by chance?
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I was thinking more along the lines of Google Image Search for white refrigerator.
http://www.google.com/search?q=white+refrigerator&tbm=isch [google.com]
The images are small enough that you can't see their logos. So how many of those can you tell apart? Can you tell me which ones are manufactured by Westinghouse, just by their visual appearance?
Re:Show them the WHOLE device not just the front (Score:5, Insightful)
The designs of most older refrigerators have a lot of similarities. The freezer was almost always on top. They almost always opened from the same side. They're typically the same size, with shelves and railings inside. Their user interface (the thermostats) were often numbered from 1-10. In fact, apart from the logo, it's usually quite difficult to tell refrigerators apart.
So? (Score:2)
I can't tell the difference between a Honda and a Toyota 9 times out of 10, and I drive a Honda. If my GF didn't have a sun roof, and there was no hood ornament, I'd have absolutely no way of distinguishing her silver Corolla from the neighbors silver Civic. What exactly is this supposed to prove?
Re:So? (Score:4, Insightful)
I can't tell the difference between a Honda and a Toyota 9 times out of 10, and I drive a Honda. If my GF didn't have a sun roof, and there was no hood ornament, I'd have absolutely no way of distinguishing her silver Corolla from the neighbors silver Civic. What exactly is this supposed to prove?
That you need new glasses? :-)
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Really? This car [wikimedia.org] and this car [trialx.com] don't look pretty much identical at first glance? Sure, there are couple things you can pick out when you look at them side by side, but you'd have to specifically memorize the distinguishing features in order to tell them apart. That's pretty much the case with the Apple and Samsung products too.
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If my GF didn't have a sun roof,
Does that mean she never wears a bra?
IP Lawyers are fucking usless morans... (Score:5, Insightful)
...That's the real story here.
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I mean like, totally, dude [blogspot.com].
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while others are merely vulgar incompetents who can't spell moron.
Neither is really true, is it?
Yes, both are true. I'm merely a fucking vulgar incompetent proof reader that is prone to making type-Os...
...And IP lawyers are fucking morons that should all be fed to sharks.
Maybe the lawyer was over 24 years old. (Score:4, Funny)
Myself, I can't tell the difference between an iPad and a windows 98 tablet computer at ten feet.
And at fifty feet, you could be holding an etch-a-sketch for all I know. I mean seriously, how much detail do you want me to discern from a nearly featureless slab of plastic?
rectangles (Score:5, Insightful)
Re:rectangles (Score:4, Insightful)
Like many here on slashdot, there is a general misunderstanding of what Apple is claiming. Apple is claiming that Samsung violates their design patents (which exist to protect designs) by making a device in the same category that looks too similar to theirs. In support of this claim, Apple has to list in detail every aspect of their design which they feel singles it out to the court. Apple cannot say to the court: "Well just look at it, isn't it obvious?" In the case of the iPad and iPhone, Apple selected a simple rectangular shape with curved corners; Apple could have chosen a much more complex shape. Apple is not claiming they came up with the idea of rectangular with curved corners alone but that it is a part of their design. For instance if Toyota came out with a curvy, bubbly 4 door sedan that VW thought looked too much like a VW Beetle and VW decided to sue Toyota. In a suit against Toyota, VW is going to list round headlights as part of the design, but VW isn't claiming they invented round headlights. The more similarities that Apple can list that the Galaxy is similar to the iPhone/iPad, they more likely they are to succeed in their suit.
While you might not feel design is something to protect, companies who invest money in design may feel otherwise. After all, someone copying a Gucci purse and naming it "Rucci" may not make a difference in your life, but Gucci might have other ideas.
No, it's an obvious rip off (Score:3)
Riiiight.... I'm not gonna argue os here, just hardware.
So, let's back up a bit here. What did 'smartphones' look like before the iPhone? Various screen sizes, clunky thinkness/form factor and a alpha numeric keyboard of some sort. We all know history, iPhone comes along, all touch based and it sets the precedent for things to come. Apple invented that. No one else did, especially not Samsung.
Then the iPod Touch follows about 8 months after. Note around this time, if you search everywhere on the web, for Sa
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So, let's back up a bit here. What did 'smartphones' look like before the iPhone? Various screen sizes, clunky thinkness/form factor and a alpha numeric keyboard of some sort. We all know history, iPhone comes along, all touch based and it sets the precedent for things to come. Apple invented that. No one else did, especially not Samsung.
The full-touch design was first introduced by LG, with the LG Prada [wikipedia.org]. So LG invented that. Apple must have copied it.
Then the iPod Touch follows about 8 months after. Note around this time, if you search everywhere on the web, for Samsung's tablets or anyone else's (like Archos, etc) all look like something between a Sony PSP and a Nokia 770. Yes, all rectangle, but just not the Apple glass touchscreen with a black bezel and metal band around the edge.
Archos tablets looked this way [engadget.com] in 2008, two years before Apple introduced the iPad. Apple must have copied it.
Now, let's look at the packaging of a Galaxy Tab. White box, picture of device on it. Gee, where have I seen that? Open it up, same unpacking experience as the iPad/iPhone - device up front, other stuff underneath. Btw, Apple patented their packaging - all the way back in 2007!
Then they copied the Nokia packaging from 2006. My N73 comes in a package with device up front - with a nice "here's your N73" writing - and other stuff underneath.
search around the web a few weeks ago for the picture of the Samsung store. Look hard - pictures of Apple's app store and Safari icons on the wall. That's pretty blatant - even Microsoft doesn't do that
It's a shop-in-a-shop in a small city of Sicily. It's impossible to believe that Apple execs from South Korea have a say o
Idiot judge wants to be like the ones on TV (Score:5, Informative)
As others have pointed out, that's a terrible test. I can't tell apart a pair of toasters or TVs or refrigerators unless the brand logo is visible. That doesn't mean they're all infringing, it just means that form follows function. But this judge wanted a bad ass moment like what you'd see on Law and Order.
Oh Right (Score:2)
Because we all know the usual using distance for using these things is 10 feet.
Anyone who is using the device, planning on buying the device, or even examining the device (it doesn't even need to be on) can tell the difference.
If there are people dumb enough to fork out a few hundred euros/dollars to buy an item without looking at the stats, an image, the box, the brand or the company is a giant idiot. Which is why when buying these sorts of things the standard protocol is to stand less than 10 feet away.
Re:Oh Right (Score:5, Insightful)
In the case of the iPad, one of the primary uses is to impress people from across the room.
So, yes, 10 feet is the usual using distance.
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In the case of the iPad, one of the primary uses is to impress people from across the room^h^h^h^h independent, organic free-trade coffee shop.
So, yes, 10 feet is the usual using distance.
Yeah, but in those cases the other people usually see the side or back of the device, which are clearly different on the Samsung and Apple products. So this "tell the fronts apart from 10 feet" is clearly bogus.
What are the similarities .... (Score:2)
That said, too many companies are trying to copy the superficial look and feel of each other's hardware. Even though that has little to do with the underlying functionality, its asking to be sued.
Turn Them Around (Score:3)
Also, they are distinguishable where they are sold: Apple Store or !Apple Store.
And no doubt distinguishable by price.
But most of all, they are distinguishable by the operating system they run. You either want to be in the Apple ecosystem (aka Walled Garden) or you don't. And you should be able to buy the tablet of your preference based on this fact. This whole lawsuit is as anti-consumer as it gets because Samsung isn't producing iPads. While they may still be producing the CPU of the iPad, the Samsung product is not an iPad and can't replace an iPad because it doesn't run Apple iPad software. So Apple is trying to kill a product that doesn't directly compete with the iPad because if you want an iPad than no substitute will do.
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No, that's the problem. The box ISN'T different. The box, the packaging, the cable, the power supply ALL look quite similar. The entirety of the package [cydiahelp.com] sold to the consumer looks too close to the iPad (according to Apple). It's not just the stupid rounded rectangle.
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Of course the box is different. Samsung's is actually branded, Apple tried as hard as possible to make theirs look incredibly generic, they should be slapped out of court for failing to even attempt to be distinct in any way.
Apple: "Everyone else should be distinct *whiiiiine*".
And this could go on ! (Score:2)
then, the judge help up to 21" monitors, and asked the lawyers to identify them
and then, 2 washing machines
and then, 2 cars
and then, 2 keyboards
and then, 2 cameras
and then, 2 non-smart phones
and then....
Somewhere in the process, a point has been proven. Not the intended one, though ?
Pictures (Score:5, Informative)
http://peanutbuttereggdirt.com/e/custom/Apple-vs-Samsung-1-Hardware-Design.html [peanutbuttereggdirt.com]
http://peanutbuttereggdirt.com/e/custom/Apple-vs-Samsung-2-Interface-Icons.html [peanutbuttereggdirt.com]
http://peanutbuttereggdirt.com/e/custom/Apple-vs-Samsung-3-Package-Design.html [peanutbuttereggdirt.com]
Apple's "design patent" is not about any single property (like the famous "rounded rectangle") but about the combination of all of these.
Re:Pictures (Score:4)
There's no denying that there are a lot of similarities between the two. The only thing I'll say is, however, that the comparisons made on this site sound a little biased. For instance, have a look at this shot of the F700:
http://static.phonesreview.co.uk/wp-content/phoneimages/2008/02/f700.jpg [phonesreview.co.uk]
How the hell is that not "silver rounded edges" and "a black face"? And this is supposedly Samsung's design before the iPhone, so it shouldn't have been inspired by it. It's not that much of a stretch to have Samsung build off their previous phones while taking some inspiration from its competitors (and everyone does that, in every field). You can clearly recognize the front button of the F700 on the SGS2 for instance, or the grilled speaker at the top.
The icon comparison is even worse. I'll grant the phone app and the contacts app (even though the phone is just Google's reversed on a background), but the rest are very different. The SMS icon is Google's, even, and the music player icon reminds me more of Windows Media Player than iTunes. It's also not as if most of these icons could be done in a billion different ways. They're representative of their purpose.
All of this, to me, sounds like a whole load of horseshit. Look at the phone from any angle and you'll find that it's different from the iPhone. I hope Samsung can make something more unique, for their own brand image's good, but I don't think all of this is grounds enough to actually ban sales of the damn thing. This is just Apple taking advantage of the patent system to deny competition.
I'll withhold saying anything about tablets since I have no interest in them and to me they all look alike. Otherwise, flame me all you want but I really hate things like these which present opinions as facts.
Re:Excellent Visual summary of the real issues. (Score:4, Insightful)
I, too, agree that Samsung (and others) are copying Apple in some ways more than others.
The questions are...
1. Is that a bad thing?
For the end-users, I would say it isn't.
For Apple, I would say it isn't either. Nobody's going to walk around with Device X that may look like e.g. an iPhone and claim it's an iPhone - that would just make them posers.
Without the claim, if you were to see such a Device X and think "ooh! iPhone sure seems popular!", I can't see how that would hurt Apple either, except from the anti-popular-things crowd.
No store is going to put the Device X in their shop and then try to suggest it's an iPhone either.
The people who buy a Device X, in short, buy it not because it's "just like an iPhone", but in part because it's [i]not[/i] an iPhone.. either in design details or in operating system or.. etc. Whatever the reason, it was reason enough not to just get the iPhone.
Now it may be a matter of principle, and that's all fine and dandy and they're in their right to defend that principle.
But if Apple are essentially just saying "you can't make a device that copies ours because with those copied elements your device is better than ours - please stick to crappy design elements so that our device is the only one the majority of people could reasonably want, thanks"... well, that's just sad.
2. At what point does the copying become something different?
What I mean by that is this... you already point out that obviously it's not [i]just[/i] about having a rectangle with rounded corners, it's the complete package.
But presumably just doing a single thing different wouldn't break enough from that 'complete package' to get the case dropped.
I.e. if they dropped the 'the color gray appears as a rectangle at the front, center of the screen' and instead went with a bluish one, I'm going to guess that would not get them off the hook. I'm going to guess that if it was actually a shape with two curved edges going across the screen that it would also not be enough. Maybe the combination of curved shape + blue would be enough... but only for that single point. It would leave all the others.
The problem with 'all the others' is that they're pretty generic.
( Mind you, even that rectangle is pretty generic if they're literally referring to the screen itself. Making the screen 'blue' would mean nothing less than tinting the LCD thus giving everything a bluish cast. Really now? I was half hoping they meant the grey rectangle used for the bottom set of icons, which could indeed be designed in a billion ways not 'copying' Apple.. but they specifically list that separately and as being 'silver' so perhaps the "[the screen]" is indeed meant literally. )
Yes, the older comparison model shows a completely different design direction that doesn't appear to copy most of the points made. But it still copies 4 of the 15 points. Is [i]that[/i] enough, then?
Let's assume, just for kicks, 'yes' here. Now let's add one thing back in - colored icons. The black/white design is nice for those who like it, but most people are going to want colored icons these days. Putting aside the 'icon design' issues, the device would now find itself 'copying' the fact that it may use 'black, blue, brown, brown-gray (and a host of other colors) as part of its design. It would also make it vastly more appealing to the masses. So would it now be a target of litigation again?
If so, that would mean that a whole range of devices would be fair game.
E.g. the Dell Aero:
http://cdn.androidcentral.com/sites/androidcentral.com/files/articleimage/Jerry%20Hildenbrand/2010/05/Dell-Aero.jpg [androidcentral.com]
Try it yourself... (Score:3)
Samsung Galaxy: http://bub.blicio.us/wp-content/uploads/2010/12/Samsung-Galaxy-Tab.jpg [blicio.us]
Apple iPad: http://areacellphone.com/wp-content/uploads/2010/04/best_ipad_texting_app.jpg [areacellphone.com]
(1) The two have different width to height ratios.
(2) The Apple iPad has a single concave button in the middle of one of its bezel sides.
(3) The UI is noticeably different
(4) The Samsung Galaxy looks to have a user-facing camera.
Maybe they should have asked a prospective buyer. You know? The people the matter...
Lots of knee-jerk responses here (Score:3)
It's not surprising that 95% of the posts here boil down to iFans arguing with Android zealots - but I think they're missing the key point.
You'd think a Samsung lawyer would be well-versed enough in the fundamental differences between the two products (such as the aspect ratio) so as not to get tripped up by this question. People here made fun of an earlier Photoshop job, apparently put forth by an European Apple lawyer, where they'd changed the ratio on an image of the Galaxy Tab so it matched that of the iPad. Since it's come up before - why couldn't the lawyer tell the difference between the two when they were side by side?
Related issue - meanwhile in the land of Oz (Score:3)
Taken from:
http://www.abc.net.au/news/2011-10-14/samsung-free-to-launch-another-tablet/3572318
To sum up the Judge told them to piss off and be happy with the injunction as it is until the real case comes up.
The law is not there to merely be a business tool to stifle competition. There was a tablet market before Apple even if it was a small one, and keeping others out unconditionally is unfair.
It's a pity Australia can't reverse the incredibly fucking stupid US patent laws we adopted as part of the "free trade" agreement - that one where for instance the USA can export beef or products containing beef to Australia but it's forbidden the other way (same with sugar, steel, wheat and a few other protected industries).
excuse me, your honor (Score:3)
I'd like permission to treat my counsel as a hostile witness...
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The fiesta is not a hybrid.
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Do you here that noise, thats the whooshing sound that just went past you're head.
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And if Apple wins this, what happens when they next try to market something that has the same general shape and color of someone else product?
They set a precedent. Hope they can live with it.
Re:So what? (Score:5, Insightful)
Apple has patents covering their design. This is what the judge is saying. The Galaxy clearly violates Apple's patents, but Apple still needs to prove that their patents are valid (Samsung claimed several instances of prior art, Apple has to show that those cases would not violate their patent).
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To the geek, the world looks geek. (Score:2)
Of course a bunch of idiot lawyers couldn't tell the difference but ask any technologically inclined person to tell the difference and they would easily do so.
The judge asks for a layman's opinion because the layman is the market.
This kind of demonstration is the bread and butter of trial work. You need be prepared for it because it is going to happen.
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That way you have a 50% chance of not being embarrassed.
And a 50% of making a complete ass of yourself by claiming the competitor's product (you claim doesn't look like yours) as your own.
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The 0.3MP FaceTime camera of the iPad 2 was copied from the iPhone 4 and the 4th Generation iPod Touch.
The 1.3MP Front-facing camera of the Galaxy Tab is a completely different camera. It has more Megapixels and fewer lenses.