Forgot your password?
typodupeerror
IOS Apple

Apple Has Stopped iOS Downgrading 207

Posted by CmdrTaco
from the fun-while-it-lasted dept.
An anonymous reader noted a forum post seems to confirmApple will be fighting downgrading in iOS 5. Quoting: "This will only affect restores starting at iOS5 and onward, and Apple will be able to flip that switch off and on at will (by opening or closing the APTicket signing window for that firmware, like they do for the BBTicket)."
This discussion has been archived. No new comments can be posted.

Apple Has Stopped iOS Downgrading

Comments Filter:
  • Walled Garden (Score:5, Insightful)

    by ffejie (779512) on Monday June 27, 2011 @09:22AM (#36583372)
    You live by the wall, you die by the wall.
    • Re: (Score:3, Funny)

      by Verunks (1000826)

      You live by the wall, you die by the wall.

      that's only if you take the black version of the iphone/ipad

      • by WarlockD (623872)

        Jesus. Don't give apple any ideas. I can see the iphone skins being made as we speak.

        As a side note, I have been messing with iOS 5 beta 2 SDK and I really like the iCloud feature.

      • by Pahroza (24427)

        Great reference.

    • Re: (Score:2, Funny)

      by Anonymous Coward

      You live by the wall, you die by the wall.

      Apple might tell you you're a unique snowflake and that using iProducts asserts your identity and creativity, but all in all, you're just another brick in their wall.

      Hey! Apple! Leave those phones alone!

    • by node 3 (115640)

      You live by the wall, you die by the wall.

      What exactly is this supposed to mean? This really isn't that big of a deal to the overwhelming majority of people. It's not as polar as you are making it out to be.

      It's more like, "you live by a wall, you can't walk through it except where the door is". I mean, sure, that's *kind of* a bad thing, barely. But not a big deal. If you want on the other side of a wall, you walk through it where the doorway is.

      Or, to look at it in a different way, more people value the so-called "walled garden" than care about s

  • by blahbooboo (839709) on Monday June 27, 2011 @09:25AM (#36583404)

    I have faith the Dev Team or someone will figure out some sort of work around. Otherwise, it has never been officially enabled anyway which is just a crazy setup. It's nonsensical to not allow people to change versions of iOS. Lots of iphone 3G people I am sure wish they could switch back to iOS v3 after finding v4 too slow. I understand security holes plugged might be part of the reason they do this, but since Apple stops supporting some of the devices (iphone 3G and iphone 1) anyway, it can't be why they don't allow downgrading...

    • by fuzzyfuzzyfungus (1223518) on Monday June 27, 2011 @09:50AM (#36583750) Journal
      Three reasons, I suspect:

      1. In most walled gardens with cryptographically secured clients(either hardware devices or software DRM piles on general purpose PCs) downgrading is a valuable tool for attackers: unless a fundamental attack is found, most attacks are comparatively minor bugs in version N or game Y's savegame loading routine or whatever, which are then fixed in version N+1 or game Y Gold Edition. If downgrading is possible, it becomes pretty trivial for people to keep a copy of the easiest-to-exploit firmware or software version that ever received a cryptographic signature, and then downgrade to it. If downgrading isn't possible, they have to keep finding fresh exploits as old holes are closed. This is the same reason why software that connects to DRMed media sources tends to get updated a zillion times a year, and why such updates are generally made mandatory pretty quickly.

      2. At least some of the updates, for Apple's flagship devices(upon which the iPod touch and wifi-only iPad are sort of hangers-on), aren't just OS update lumps, they also meddle with the embedded cellular hardware's firmware. Allowing downgrading would require dealing with v.N+1 basebands talking to v.N OSes, or involve allowing the baseband firmware to be downgraded(which is of interest to unlockers and other parties who Apple's carrier buddies don't approve of) and may involve some amount of bricking risk.

      3. Apple has, at least until shitstorms forced their hand, never been much troubled at the idea that they are seen as forcing people to upgrade(remember their original response to the iPod battery life problem, until whining forced them to change it? Or the various OS 10.x releases that have dropped support for hardware configs upon which, once the version check is hacked away, it can in fact run?). This seems to be a matter both of business and of philosophy: Obviously, as a hardware maker, anything that makes people buy new hardware is profitable. Philosophically, they have never shied away from a pattern of releases of the form "Here is version N+1, it is insanely great. Everything prior to today is an obsolete archaism. On the plus side, this allows them to do interesting things with some regularity. On the minus side, this makes them quite happy to declare various features dead well before some of their customers are ready. The idea that they would dedicate engineering effort to allowing people with version N-1 or N-2 devices to run an obsolete OS runs against their priorities.
    • Or at least the ones who can't afford a phone solely devoted to running beta iOS releases.

      If I can't return my wife's iPhone to its supported state after loading a beta release, I can't load that release.

      • by node 3 (115640)

        What? You mean it costs *money* to buy hardware to develop on? What the hell?!

        Or, you could just use the emulator if you can't afford an iPod touch to test on and don't want to run beta software on your one and only iPhone.

    • by tlhIngan (30335)

      I have faith the Dev Team or someone will figure out some sort of work around. Otherwise, it has never been officially enabled anyway which is just a crazy setup. It's nonsensical to not allow people to change versions of iOS. Lots of iphone 3G people I am sure wish they could switch back to iOS v3 after finding v4 too slow. I understand security holes plugged might be part of the reason they do this, but since Apple stops supporting some of the devices (iphone 3G and iphone 1) anyway, it can't be why they

  • I found... (Score:5, Insightful)

    by pinkj (521155) on Monday June 27, 2011 @09:29AM (#36583462)
    I found when I upgraded from iOS3 to iOS4 on my 1st gen iPad it caused it to work sluggishly. I was considering going back to iOS3 if possible and I'm even more afraid to go to iOS5. I got the iPad at xmas and not even 6 months in I felt I'm already behind in performance.
    • I found when I upgraded from iOS3 to iOS4 on my 1st gen iPad it caused it to work sluggishly. I was considering going back to iOS3 if possible and I'm even more afraid to go to iOS5. I got the iPad at xmas and not even 6 months in I felt I'm already behind in performance.

      Strange, no one I know with ipad 1 has had any issues with iOS 4.

      I suggest you do a re-install and this time setup as a NEW ipad. Most people with these sort of issues with iOS find that setup as a new device (again, NOT restore from backup) takes care of the issue.

    • Agreed - I haven't actually found anything in iOS4 for the iPad 1 that I have needed yet, besides the fact that they removed my favourite wallpaper from iOS4 (the desert island scene), so really I lost out :( Haven't found anywhere that offers it as a download yet either.

      Also, they never fixed any of the annoyances I had - Safari should not randomly reload a page just because it feels like it (yeah, sure, its out of ram, so lets reload pages when you switch to them - bang goes my half filled form, or the p

      • Agreed - I haven't actually found anything in iOS4 for the iPad 1 that I have needed yet, besides the fact that they removed my favourite wallpaper from iOS4 (the desert island scene), so really I lost out :( Haven't found anywhere that offers it as a download yet either.

        You mean this one [amazonaws.com] ?

        • Nope, this was an almost cartoony desert island with palm trees scene - you could see the entire island in a deep blue sea.

          • That's not an official wallpaper, not in 3.2.2 at least. You can see the official complement of wallpapers in this screenshot [ipadshots.com]. The closest to what you describe is the "oasis [dospy.com]" wallpaper, palm trees surrounded by desert.

      • I haven't actually found anything in iOS4 for the iPad 1 that I have needed yet.

        Unless you don't use any apps, there are bound to many you use that are using parts of iOS4 that did not exist in 3.x. Just because it's not a feature the user can see doesn't mean it's not there. I guess you don't play (multiplayer) games either, as GameKit is 4.x.

  • More like Apple has implimented another annoying, eventually to be circumvented, impediment to downgrading.

  • I feel that their objective is simple.

    They release an "upgrade" that degrades performance on older phones. People update because of the new features but soon decide it is too slow for their taste and try to downgraded back to when it was ok.

    Since now they won't be able to, and their phone is ruined, they decide they need a new phone. But all those apps they bought are stuck to iThings, so, not wanting to lose them, they buy a new iPhone.

    *Sigh*

    • They release an "upgrade" that degrades performance on older phones. People update because of the new features but soon decide it is too slow for their taste and try to downgraded back to when it was ok.

      Probably, any company would smile at that prospect. I think it's more likely that Apple's been keeping an eye on what's been happening with the PSP and are trying to stay ahead of those trying to jailbreak their products. There are people who have their PSPs at a certain version of the firmware and won't go past it. That means no buying of new PSP games since they often require the newest version available at the time of their release.

      • This is semi-inaccurate. Most new PSP custom firmwares support the newer games by backporting the necessary libraries/decryptors.

        However, there are yet still some who do not upgrade for whatever reason.
  • by Have Blue (616) on Monday June 27, 2011 @09:58AM (#36583856) Homepage
    It implies that Apple ever condoned or deliberately enabled this. They are strengthening their protection against an activity that they never intended to be possible. You might as well post "Apple Stops Jailbreaking".
    • You might as well post "Apple Stops Jailbreaking".

      And, somehow, that's how some people will view it.

      They'd be wrong, but some will find a way to view it that way.

  • I've been using the beta and now beta 2 on both my iphone and my ipad. As of beta 2, you can now sync wirelessly, but syncing in general has become somewhat unreliable. Lots of wierd errors. But I'm not going to go up in arms since it IS only a beta.

    However I've found the wifi usage on my devices to be significantly improved. I was hoping my 3g stability would improve but it still sucks. But my phone is a 3gs and I haven't noticed any issues performance-wise. Ditto with my Gen 1 ipad. So far I'm quite

    • With each release, Apple reduces my interest in Jailbreaking. Fact is, the tethering and the unlock are the only reason left for me nowadays. If apple wants to kill jailbreaking, just kill the reasons to jailbreak. I know of one big jailbreak dev who stopped with iOS 4 as he didn't really find it needed anymore with the new APIs apple had introduced in ios 4

      • The only glaring thing that is still missing for me is an easy way to toggle bluetooth and wifi on and off. I could do that with SBSettings.

  • The difference is that the restore is done on-device now (over the air updates). And the device sends a nonce to get an APTicket.

    The restore app must be hacked to save the nonce and the APTicket together, and now since the app is on the device, it's going to be more difficult than it was before.

    Apple never wanted downgrades before, that's why they stopped signing old code per device a while back, hence the "save your blobs" movement.

Work without a vision is slavery, Vision without work is a pipe dream, But vision with work is the hope of the world.

Working...