Apple: "We must Have Comprehensive Location Data" 556
An anonymous reader writes "Apple's iPhone 3G, iPhone 3GS, the iPhone 4, and iPad models are keeping track of consumers whereabouts. Mac computers running Snow Leopard and even Windows computers running Safari 5 are being watched. But the question is why? 'To provide the high quality products and services that its customers demand, Apple must have access to the comprehensive location-based information,' Apple says."
So, who's the "customer"? (Score:5, Insightful)
Your users or world governments?
Re:So, who's the "customer"? (Score:5, Insightful)
Your users or world governments?
Advertisers.
Re:So, who's the "customer"? (Score:5, Interesting)
Re:So, who's the "customer"? (Score:4, Informative)
At least Apple buries the fact somewhere in some deep EULA (I guess). Google didn't ask anyone when it collected WIFI data, nor does it ask for permission when people use google's search engine (or 90% of the other sites on internet that have google analytics)
Well Hello there, Mr Double Standards Guy, Nice for you to drop by.....
Apple buries the fact >> Google Didn't ask permission? How are those even CLOSE to the same thing?
Let me fix it for you:
Apple Didn't Ask Permission. Google tells you right up Front.
Go to Google.com. Right there, mid screen is a Privacy link [google.com].
Click it and read. I'm astounded you've never seen this page before. Flabbergasted actually.
And were you TOTALLY UNAWARE that Google gives you all the tools you need to [google.com] CONTROL [google.com] what info they keep about you? I'm astounded.
And why is it suddenly about Google? Apple is the one leaving years worth of tracking data on the phones
and transmitting it secretly to headquarters with no way for you to opt out.
Re:So, who's the "customer"? (Score:5, Insightful)
I believe what the OP was referring to was:
http://www.priv.gc.ca/media/nr-c/2010/nr-c_101019_e.cfm [priv.gc.ca]
In this case it was Google street view cars driving by. obviously in this case the people's whose privacy was impacted had no opportunity to agree to a EULA
Now I will agree that the cases may be completely different, but I think thats what the OP was getting at.
Re:So, who's the "customer"? (Score:5, Insightful)
I'm sorry, but you don't have a reasonable expectation of privacy if you're broadcasting it in clear text for anybody to intercept. The reality is that no matter how they choose to spin it, it's really easy to accidentally intercept communications when they're not encrypted.
Next thing you'll tell me is that it's illegal to tape notes for yourself in public because somebody in the background might accidentally be audible while you're making a note.
Re:So, who's the "customer"? (Score:5, Informative)
I'm not telling you anything, but the law tells companies: (http://www.priv.gc.ca/information/guide_e.cfm [priv.gc.ca]) which requires commercial entities to follow certain best practices in collecting information that may contain Personally Identifiable Information (including consent for the specific uses to which it is going to be put, retention, encryption, etc)
If you're doing business in Canada it is your responsibility to know this law and Google violated it. Its not about how easy it is to collect the information, it is about ensuring you have the legal authorization to do so. Just because you CAN do something does not make it legal to do so.
Min
Min
Re:So, who's the "customer"? (Score:5, Insightful)
Are you dense? The Wi-Fi standard allows for the encryption of payload, while the headers are always sent in the clear, regardless of whether users secured their networks or not.
Most people were not aware of this, and rightfully thought that setting their networks to be "secure" was enough to provide privacy. These people had a very reasonable expectation of privacy.
Google took advantage of this fact and logged SSID's, MAC and IP addresses of every wireless network it encountered, regardless of security status. It then used this information to map the precise location of each transmitter. Moreover, this information is used to detect the location of any user who happens to come from such networks, and all done without the consent or even knowledge of most users.
-dZ.
Re:So, who's the "customer"? (Score:5, Insightful)
How is this acceptable to the myriad people who expected privacy from setting the secure bit on their routers?
"Stupid is a stupid does, sir." You get what you pay for, and if you can't be bothered to learn the rudiments of the technology you use, you shouldn't be using it. And "privacy" is a loaded term: Google wasn't cracking anybody's system, wasn't logging private information, wasn't breaking any encryption, they were logging plaintext broadcasts.
If you don't want even that minimal information tracked then turn off your goddamn router, or encase your premises in screen wire. And in any event, this is about Apple: we've already beat Google to death on this one.
Re:So, who's the "customer"? (Score:5, Insightful)
Car Driving down the road collects data is sees (hears) while driving down the road, and you complain about "data" that is spewing forth from random houses being "private"?
Funny world you live in. Don't want your data spewing forth, then don't use WIFI or at least encrypt it.
Don't like those options and you want everyone to ignore your public data? Yeah, good luck with that.
Re:So, who's the "customer"? (Score:4, Insightful)
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Where is this supposedly illegal?
It's not. It's totally, perfectly legal. But after 9/11, police started cracking down on anyone taking an "unusual interest" in large or famous structures. What's more, as your sibling points out below, structures where owners have think they own trademarks on their image hire rent-a-cops (often off-duty real cops) to harass photographers who take photos (citing bogus permits etc). Surprised you didn't have a problem in Boston.
Re:So, who's the "customer"? (Score:5, Insightful)
I didn't say Google wasn't transmitting your location back to Google. I said they weren't doing it secretly.
You can make a setting right there on you Android phone to turn off location information.
There is NO EQUIVALENT in the iPhone.
Come on! Stop with this argument that just because others are doing it Openly and Above board, its ok for Apple to do it on the sneak.
Would you accept that same argument from you child?
Re:So, who's the "customer"? (Score:4, Informative)
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I assume that you have never owned an iPhone.
You assume wrongly.
The point is, that setting does not prevent the iPhone from continuing to build the tracking database which it never over-writes or deletes.
You would expect a phone to keep track of its current position, and maybe the last wifi beacon it saw. This makes geolocation faster.
But a years worth (or more) of historical tracking is pointless.
Re:So, who's the "customer"? (Score:5, Informative)
Google has their privacy statement mid-page on the front page of their site.
Apple has it buried inside their EULA.
Stickin' with Google for this one.
(also, that streetview thing was an accident- Google didn't use any of the information. Heck, Google was the one that brought that problem to light- if they hadn't, we probably wouldn't have a clue.)
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Mistake != Malice.
Err, how do you accidentally collect WiFi packets on platform whose ostensible purpose is to take photographs, and transmit them back via some other means (3g most likely) entirely?
Re:So, who's the "customer"? (Score:5, Informative)
Mistake != Malice.
Err, how do you accidentally collect WiFi packets on platform whose ostensible purpose is to take photographs, and transmit them back via some other means (3g most likely) entirely?
They were mapping out WiFi network locations to assist with location services. A terrestrial GPS-like system, if you will. The Street View team basically included an old experimental bit of code in their WiFi system which, unbeknownst to them, actually recorded from all categories of publicly-broadcast WiFi data. They only intended to record SSIDs and MAC addresses of access points. They had no payload data from encrypted WiFi networks (if you have a password on your network, it is encrypted) and they had absolutely no data at all from encrypted networks not broadcasting an SSID. They wanted to delete the data they recorded as soon as it was discovered, but that data was at that point recognized as evidence so deleting it would be very illegal. They were basically forced to hold onto it until authorization from authorities allowed them to rid themselves of it.
So now you understand the purpose of what they were doing and that they had made a mistake. Do you not agree that Mistake != Malice?
Re:So, who's the "customer"? (Score:4, Informative)
get it running on the collection server
There does not appear to be one.
put some malicious code into these logs
How does that work, Macgyver?
This is not even wrong.
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Riiiiight, because governments are rushing to validate the statements of irrelevant slashbots (myself very much included) by disappearing them?
Re:So, who's the "customer"? (Score:4, Informative)
Riiiiight, because governments are rushing to validate the statements of irrelevant slashbots (myself very much included) by disappearing them?
Maybe not the disappearing part but other than that it's spot on. Remember the case in which the FBI put a GPS logger on a students car because of some harmless commet on a blog? Yes, that is actually what "they" do.
Also, remember the case of the hacked playstation in which Sony subpoenaed the identities of all commenters for a video? It's not only governments that go after mere commenters.
Paranoid tinfoil hat wearers can't come up with conspiracies fast enough to catch up with reality.
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Governments aren't customers. Customers have to pay.
Re:So, who's the "customer"? (Score:4, Informative)
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It's all about targeted advertising, so no need for tinfoil hats here. ( there are plenty of reasons for them, just not here )
Still no answer. (Score:5, Insightful)
Still no answer to why they need that information.
Re:Still no answer. (Score:4, Insightful)
For the same reason Android needs it (Score:3)
Android stores the same data, they just have a shorter cache duration. Ask Google if you must know.
FUD (Score:5, Informative)
All location tracking in Android is totally optional, in fact you are explicitly asked if you want to enable it the first time you turn on your phone, there is no way to even skip the question.
Hmmm (Score:3)
I don't think I'm the only one that has a problem with Apple only saying: "Hey guy, you know, just trust us!"
Re:Hmmm (Score:5, Informative)
Re: (Score:2, Funny)
Congratulations! You are the first person who has actually read the EULA!
Seriously, how many people do you think actually read the EULA, and saw that clause, and understood it, before using their new device?
Re:Hmmm (Score:5, Funny)
"But look, you found the notice didn't you?"
"Yes," said Arthur, "yes I did. It was on display in the bottom of a locked filing cabinet stuck in a disused lavatory with a sign on the door saying 'Beware of the EULA'."
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I gave up on the iPhone also for this attitude when it comes to them updating their devices.
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Why is that even legal? What they're saying is that they will share your information with random third parties whether or not theirs any good reason to do so and fail to mention who exactly it is that they're sharing it with. On top of which they aren't promising that the 3rd parties will themselves be restricted to any sort of restrictions on what they do with it.
I realize that this gets attorneys all wet, but it's seriously fucked up that they can expect you to sign something like this and be held to it,
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The keywords here are "location-based services". How do consumers know what location-based services they are using an how do they know how to turn them off? And, if you know anything about the iphone you'd know that even if you turn off location based services you are then constantly annoyed by prompts to allow them to use your location. As well, I'd consider using the phone a location-based service, so technically you can't turn it off because just dialing your phone or answering the phone means they ha
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It's important to note, though, that EULAs have been found invalid where they violate existing consumer protection laws. A good example is the article posted yesterday about Sony & OtherOS...
http://games.slashdot.org/story/11/04/23/031220/Sony-Should-Pay-For-OtherOS-Removal-Says-Finnish-Board [slashdot.org]
rtfa (Score:2, Informative)
Old quote bolted onto new news.
"In June 2010, Congressmen Edward J. Markey, D-Mass., and Joe Barton, R-Texas wrote a letter to Apple... ...In response the company's general counsel Bruce Sewall wrote a letter... ..."To provide the high quality products and services that its customers demand, Apple must have access to the comprehensive location-based information," Sewall told Congress in the letter."
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Also from the article:
"Apple also stores the location information in a database only accessibly to Apple, the letter says."
Sewall was lying or badly misinformed.
I'm not sure I would mind so much if all this data sharing with advertisers meant that I got my phone for free. I am irked that they expect me to provide advertisers with a wealth of data AND pay for the privilege. I might be switching to Android. I just wish the Android phones didn't feel so cheaply built. Or perhaps someone does make one with a gl
Old news. (Score:5, Informative)
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This article is referencing a reply Apple wrote on June 2010.
Old news or not, it sounds like Apple's stance hasn't changed.
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Well, I think the news part is this:
While Apple has since remained tight-lipped on the matter, not responding to any media-inquires [...]
So user's privacy concerns don't even get a response from Apple anymore. We have to assume that their position still applies, that:
Apple, its partners and licensees, may collect, use and share customers' precise location data, including GPS information
Why? Because we know what's best for you... (Score:2)
It is OK to keep a log of the devices whereabouts... on the device. It is not OK to transfer that data to another entity without explicit permission of the devices owner... and better ask one time too often for that permission...
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fsck you apple, and google (Score:2)
Re:fsck you apple, and google (Score:5, Informative)
From this data, you can get a rough estimate of when and where I have been. But the more often I visit an area and/or the longer I am there, the less precise in time the estimate becomes. Combine this with data points that can be 100 km off, and the position becomes untenable that this is a log of your whereabouts.
Apparently, Android logs the last 50 cells encountered *AND* sends this log to Google.
Think of the users (Score:4, Interesting)
Apple is doing it for the users regardless if they want it or not. Why not give them the ability to purge the data let them delete or purge the data regardless if they want it or not. It could be simple option somewhere that does not take away from the pristine user experience.
I call bullshit on the whole thing anyway. A database of where I was last week/month/year has very little benefit to advertisers. Any benefit it does have is far overshadowed by the users personal privacy of having that data available to Apple and whoever else can access that info. What if my bank account balance was available to them, sure, it would help advertisers but what is the downside to my privacy to give that info up?
The users do not want this.
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A database of where I was last week/month/year has very little benefit to advertisers.
You are short on imagination. If I know what you are doing now, and I know what you were doing last year, then I can try to identify people who will be doing what you are doing now based on the similarity of what they're doing now to what you were doing a year ago and sell them stuff that you buy now.
To unclear (Score:4, Insightful)
I wonder if all those people who helped OpenStreetMap are aware that OpenStreetMap knows the exact location where they were when they collected the data.
On the other hand, there is a website know where you can enter the MAC address of a router, and it will give you the location of that router, based on data on Google's servers. I hope Apple doesn't allow the same thing. I would hope even more that Google would put a stop to this. According to what Apple says, this is a black box: Only when the location software in the iPhone OS asks for the information about routers that are physically nearby will it receive location information. And in that case, anyone with a working GPS could have the same information anyway, so this is no privacy breach.
No excuse for lack of encryption. (Score:5, Interesting)
I will concede the debate that permanently logged location information is required to run the features consumers want. I think it's false, and I think it's about iAds, but I'll concede it.
However, the lack of encryption or even simple hashing on this database is inexcusable. Unencrypted copies stored on every computer an iOS device syncs to! Inexcusable, irresponsible, sloppy software. A product which flings around my private data that way is a broken product, regardless of which features it offers. This is a stalkers dream. This will appear in every divorce court (That database is jointly owned property!). This will be used to bully and out gay college roommates (Physical access to your desktop? Yup). This will be used to keep tabs on employees work habits (Have iTunes on a work computer? Burned).
Apple made terrible software, and they are now informing us that they will continue to do so.
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Why on earth would you have iTunes on a work computer? You've got an iPhone, listen to music on that. Then you could have a phone charger at work, which won't leak any personal information except that you have an iPhone.
With that said, there is no excuse for leaving this data lying around on the user's computer. iTunes won't do anything for the user with it. Send it to Apple if Apple must have it, then remove temp files. I can see why you'd want to keep a log on the phone, but not why it needs to appear on
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For a lot of people who travel extensively (consultants), a workplace-assigned computer is their only laptop when on the road. This leads to lots of work-home blurring.
Re:No excuse for lack of encryption. (Score:5, Insightful)
Why on earth would you have iTunes on a work computer?
You may need to have it if your employer uses iOS products. iTunes is required to activate an iPhone (or iPad), as well as for backing up the on-device storage and doing certain other things. I have a work-issued iPhone and I'm actually required to have iTunes on my work PC for syncing the iPhone and loading on corporate-signed apps from outside the public app store.
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will someone mod this fella up, pls?
I have no problems with seeing possible technical reasons why this information may be useful to keep on the phone, but Apple, ENCRYPT IT!
bully and out gay college roommates? (Score:2)
Wow, what a powerful use of the jump to conclusions mat. You just did the equivalent of "think of the children".
If your roommate would rummage your computer to determine if you are gay, they'd rummage your other personal effects which they also have access to and find out anyway.
And if company I work for is the type to keep tabs on me, I wouldn't sync my iPhone with my work computer, even if I did have iTunes on it. And if I did sync to my computer there wouldn't I check the "encrypt iPhone backups" box?
Thi
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Dear Apple: No, you don't. (Score:2)
That is all.
Sounds good (Score:2)
HP webOS (Score:2)
Well... Ok then (Score:2)
I guess if you need it you need it. There we go. Good thing I don't need an iPhone.
Why the timestamps ? (Score:5, Insightful)
So Apple is beginning to reply over this blackeye. Excellent. Other posters have asked "who is the customer?" and that is a perfectly legitimate question. There ought at least have been some sort of consumer opt-out ala "DO_NOT_TRACK".
But beyond that, even granting _arguendo_ legitimacy to targetted advertising, what possible useful purpose do the detailed timestamps serve? A file with locations (when different from previous) would be equally as useful. Timestamps are for tracking & snooping, not local service advertising. If that were even ethical.
This argument is relatively important to Apple -- they might well be accused of "unauthorized access to computing systems" (aka cracking) unless they can show the tracking is somehow essential to the access they have been authorized (OS & app services). Just because they're a mfr/OS vendor does not grant them automatic permission to do what they want. The law is not written that way, and penalizes those whose use exceeds the owner's authorization.
At least for those running OS-X (Score:4, Informative)
They actually come in groups of three, including iphone-wu.apple.com, location.apple.com or something of that ilk.
This is obviously much more of an issue on any iOS device, where the user has little to no control of what's taking place behind the fancy window dressing, and for which no such firewall is made available for purchase through Apple's app store that I know of.
Anyway, for a computer that's staying in one place, a case could be made for the lack of need to know it is staying there all the time. Butt off my activities unless you give me the opt-in choice to be the one that decides whether to provide your company with this information or not. In fact, it could be argued that for home computers the only use for this sort of stuff is targeted advertising somewhere down the road, once users have accepted the idea that being tracked is normal.
It's like that famous quote (Score:2)
"We must know. We will know."
-- David Hilbert
Really? (Score:3)
George Orwell would disagree.
Re:Many apps require location services by design, (Score:5, Insightful)
My apps don't need to know where I was last year.
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Right. That should be eliminated.
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Re:Many apps require location services by design, (Score:5, Insightful)
They need to know my current location. Period. My every step for the past six months, not so much.
Not to say I can't think of uses that do need to record your movements (apps like jogging logs come to mind), but those don't apply to the vast majority of people and, once installed, can do their own - user initiated - tracking.
If you feel differently, then click the "don't allow" button when prompted.
Does the iPhone actually have such a button (in general, not just relating to tagging pictures)? If so, I would agree with you that this amounts to nothing but clueless end-users. I do not suspect that as the case, however.
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Where's the preference which says "please don't store my information forever, and don't send it to Apple so that they can store it forever + give it to any other business partner (including the police for a profiling database) who they decide would like to know where I've been."? Besides, there's no way to disable all location information, as a cell phone will be connected to a tower pretty much all the time, which identifies your location down to within a couple of miles. And this database, if you've rea
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It's not sent to Apple. It is stored on the device and the computer it syncs with.
It's been mentioned elsewhere, this is very likely a bug and not designed behavior. The file in question is meant to be the location cache and should be operating much like the cache on Android, only the deletion has not been happening.
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This is not what caused the uproar. If you go to the original source that even disclosed this was happening, they point out there is "[no] evidence to suggest this data is leaving your custody" [oreilly.com].
TFA is quoting Sewall from last year and trying to put it into the context of the current situation when his comments were not in the context of the current situation. That seems pretty disingenuous.
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But why on earth is that information kept? They could easily just dump old information, I'm thinking maybe 24hours. And phone owners should be able to turn this feature on or off as they please!
You post on Slashdot and can't think of a reason why? iPhones with GPS help updating Apple's database by reporting precise information about nearby routers to Apple's database. Now you don't want your phone to report the same information over and over and over again. Like my phone sending exactly where my neighbours' routers are every five minutes. And all the routers on my way to work twice every day. So how do you avoid this? You keep a list of known locations that you have sent, and don't send that infor
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that was my thought. I was withholding judgement until Apple actually opened their mouths.
apparently they decided to stick their feet into their mouths.
then again there is no indication that apple actually gets any of the location data. unlike google which only keeps a few days locally but transmits it to google regularly(who knows how many days they store at google) .
Re:That smells like because it is (Score:3)
It's called "quote mining". The explanation* [house.gov] for the location data is really quite straightforward. Apple isn't doing anything here that isn't also being done by Google, only the method varies.
*pdf warning
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The difference is Google is up front about it and allows you to control what data you let them keep. https://www.google.com/dashboard/?hl=en [google.com]
Does Apple? Where are the settings that control this info on Apple's site?
Re:That smells like because it is (Score:4, Interesting)
It is also right there on the iPhone. Settings-->General-->Location Services. You can turn them off or on globally and control which apps can use it if you choose to turn them on.
Except it doesn't work for the tracking database under discussion.
It still tracks you in the on-phone database. It tracks you using tower triangulation even if you turn the iPhone GPS off.
And it keeps at least a years worth of info.
And its stored in an insecure method.
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Funny, I don't see any Android phone geolocation cache controls.
I don't own one, I have a Blackberry (see how stupid all the "yer an apple fanboi" idjits look all of a sudden?:)).
Now can you tell me please, how can you possibly see goelocation cache controls in Android without having Android phone?
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His argument is that if someone else does it, it's NOT bad.
Further, I'm sure he would posit that Apple is trustworthy, as is Google, so it's no big deal to wear a tracking device for them.
Re:That smells like because it is (Score:4, Interesting)
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Apple didn't open their mouths on this "hidden file". The quote being used was a response to a question from a Congressman last year, around the time that they changed agreements to allow them to collect data around the launch of the iAd product.
Now perhaps their stance is the same on this issue, but if you're reserving judgement until they respond, then you should still be reserving judgement. The quote in the article was talked about extensively here a year ago, so there is no new information coming to
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TFA says they haven't said whether the data is sent up to Apple, but that Apple says if the want to it's "within their right to do so".
Yeah, no thanks.
How could it possibly be useful to them if it WASN'T sent? You know its been sent. Probably the instant you logged into iTunes on the phone.
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TFA says they haven't said whether the data is sent up to Apple, but that Apple says if the want to it's "within their right to do so".
Yeah, no thanks.
He's a fucking lawyer, what do you expect him to say ? This is NOT a real statement on location services, it's a lawyer spouting ass-covering bullshit.
Re:That smells like (Score:5, Funny)
Bullshit!
No it's not. That information is needed for the "Find-A-Homo" app. Th Republican's are really big on that app - don't know why. And the "Find-A- Public-Restroom" app.
I don't have time to find the sites. Today is worship the Chocolate Rabbit and Egg day.
Praise be the Easter Bunny - who the Jews killed and ate.
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4. Where to put more cell towers.
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You have summed up Minority Report. Now the question is, how does Apple relate to pre-crime?
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Well it also makes paranoid types bug out over unlikely scenarios, which entertains me, which I guess is yet another use.
Not one they intended, I'm sure.
Re:Only two uses for that data (Score:4, Insightful)
Two uses for that data: 1. Advertisements 2. Police
and of course the 3rd one that Apple do not want to think about: 3. Thieves can use it, to know when your house is empty.
It's not this file with their GPS that will help thieves, it's those stupid apps that post to Facebook and Twitter saying "BillyBob is at Starbucks on the corner of Main and Market with SusieQ!" Whee! That means BillyBob isn't HOME and I know from a status update last week that he has a new 50" plasma he just got from BestBuy! And from all the PICTURES he posts on his profile I have a workable map of his HOUSE and I know he lives ALONE and only has a lazy cat and not a vicious dog.
How many crooks will go through the trouble to leverage this file when there is so much low hanging fruit? None. The eerie thing about this file is a) What is it REALLY used for? I mean today. Advertising my ass. and b) Potential use of this data. To me it smells just like ISP log files and Dropbox back door encryption keys.
Each day I see things come about that makes the "fictional" big brother tracking technology shown on movies and tv like Enemy of the State and 24 look a little less like fiction.
Apparently having an iPhone will make it conceivable to know not only where you are now, but where you have been. Every day. For a long time. Couple this with those cell phone analyzers the Michigan police reportedly have. Think about it. http://www.thenewspaper.com/news/34/3458.asp [thenewspaper.com]
"But if you don't have anything to hide, then you have nothing to worry about". Ok, what about the reports I see where the TSA somehow finds out about outspoken people who complain publicly about the TSA? What about how they have people who watch for people IN THE LINES who are frustrated with being herded like cattle and groped like whores? http://tech.slashdot.org/story/11/04/15/2051220/TSA-Investigates-People-Who-Complain-About-TSA [slashdot.org]
If you have no opinion AND have nothing to hide THEN you have nothing to worry about. God help us.
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You were silly for ever sing their phone. I'd imagine that /etc/hosts can cure these issues for their laptops.
Re:No thanks dude. (Score:4, Funny)
Next computer and phone will not be a mac then. /previous Apple customer.
I'm sorry, but your response pretty much proves that you are full of shit. A *TRUE* Apple customer would not respond the way you did, so I call "bullshit" on your post. I do not believe you own *any* Apple products.
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You are a known troll but I'll respond anyway; Apple users CAN get better. For me it took the insult that was the Quadra when PC users were getting real processors and not something that came out of a cereal box. I mean, the 68040 would have been a really righteous upgrade to me back when I had a 68020 Amiga... And instead of getting with the times right away, maybe demanding Motorola price-shrink the '060, they instead took DAMN NEAR FOREVER to bring out PowerPC machines, most of which did not conform to a
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Unlike your cell carrier, Apple isn't keeping tabs on where you've been. The data is being stored on the device, and on the computer it's sync'd with. Nowhere else.
who to say that data is not being upload to apple? (Score:2)
who to say that data is not being uploaded to apple?
Re: (Score:2)
The creators of the 'iPhoneTracker' app (Alasdair Allan and Pete Warden) which analyses the data stored and represents it visually on a map have done some extensive research into this and have found no evidence that the data is transferred across the network to Apple, or anyone else.
That's not to say that I feel comfortable about the data being stored for so long in the first place, but suggesting that it's being collected and stored on Apple's ser
Re:What? Me Worry? (Score:5, Insightful)
I couldn't care less if Apple, a private investigator, or the US government knew my precise location 24/7. I'm not cheating on my wife, I'm not wanted by the FBI, and I'm not hiding from the IRS. So why would I give a shit?
You're obviously a moron so no amount of logic is going to change your mind. After all the information is already out there and you've chosen to ignore it so far.
Once everyone is logged and cataloged then police don't have to do their jobs anymore. Defense will change from "innocent until proven guilty" to "guilty until proven innocent based on a preponderance of the evidence". It has already happened, the most famous being finger prints. Finger prints are unique but matches are usually based on a few key markers. There have been plenty of cases where paper pushing monkeys blindly accept these key markers in cases to convict people. They had to hire professionals at their own expense to fight the system.
I just hope your iPhone whereabouts a linked to a high profile murder with no other suspects. The police will be pressured to get a conviction and with no other leads they will ride you like a $12 hooker trying to get you to confess... guilty or not. Sure you will most likely be found innocent, but that's after thousands of dollars in legal bills and having your like turned upside down.
The police government employees AND they're lazy. I wouldn't want them having this information. It's probably the first database they'll mine for leads rather than getting off their asses.
Re: (Score:2)
I agree with you in general, and I think a lot of the paranoia over privacy is overblown or even harmful. But there are legitimate reasons why location privacy is a good idea. The standard examples are abusive spouses, stalkers, closeted homosexuals in hostile territory, and nosy employers, and I'm sure there are a lot more. Those are all real problems, and none of them are going to disappear in the lifetime of a consumer electronics device.
OR, don't buy? (Score:2, Insightful)
How about a simpler solution: DON'T BUY if you don't like it!
Re: (Score:3)
I found this via Hacker News.
willclarke.net - Apple is not “recording your moves”
http://www.willclarke.net/?p=247 [willclarke.net]
Mr. Clarke's research implies that cell tower and Wi-Fi network locations are recorded, but phone location is *not* recorded, in the file at issue.
Of course, if you request the location of nearby restaurants via iPhone app, then your location is must be determined. I have seen no proof that user accessible *device* location data is stored.
If such data were available, why would an application like "Trails - GPS Tracker" ever need to "Resume recording"?
When looking at the data stored in that DB on my iPhone I came to exactly the same conclusion. The iPhone builds a local network topography map of cell towers and WiFi base stations to avoid having to look up that data over and over again from the databases at Google and SkyHook (as Android does it). Not more, not less.
And this is not only faster than accessing external databases and consumes less power, it also does NOT leak your location data to these service providers. Whenever a phone (or another device