Apple Deprecates Their JVM 451
Mortimer.CA writes "In some recent release notes Apple has deprecated their JVM: 'As of the release of Java for Mac OS X 10.6 Update 3, the version of Java that is ported by Apple, and that ships with Mac OS X, is deprecated.' In the past Sun (now Oracle) has always let Apple do this: 'Apple Computer supplies their own version of Java. Use the Software Update feature (available on the Apple menu) to check that you have the most up-to-date version of Java for your Mac.' I wonder how much heads-up Oracle was given for this change, and if the Java team has any code ready to go, or whether they'll have to ramp up porting for Mac OS 10.7 (aka 'Lion')."
Mac as ultimate dev machine no more? (Score:4, Interesting)
In the past I've heard macs referred to as the ultimate developer's machine, with a full UNIX, all the gnu tools, a nice UI (with X if you need it), and nicely integrated laptop hardware. But Java is still one of the top languages on the planet, so if Apple really stops keeping it up to date that could put a nail in that coffin. Heck, I'm pretty sure the Apple Store has a big pile of Java back there...
Way to go, Apple. (Score:2, Interesting)
With this, Mac OS X users get all their OS updates automatically from one place. Too bad Microsoft & the various BSD & Linux vendors are not able to do this too.
PS: HP does this too for the HP-UX Java releases (except for the automatic updates): http://www.hp.com/go/java [hp.com]
PPS: Java IS part of the OS because without Java you cannot run Minecraft. :-)
Re:Patents (usually) wouldn't worry Apple (Score:4, Interesting)
Meh, I could see them possibly doing this to strengthen Oracle's suit against Google's Dalvik VM in Android.
Or possibly Apple wants to introduce the straightjacket-in-a-walled-garden appstore approach to their desktop in addition to iOS, so they're starting to make moves to discourage the distribution of portable Java apps the same way they inhibit Flash on iOS.
Other than that, seems like a bunch of maneuverings between companies and technologies I don't really care all that much about. But at least hopefully it'll keep the fanbois who like chatting about soap opera politics preoccupied for a bit.
watch oracle do nothing (Score:2, Interesting)
What about servers? (Score:5, Interesting)
Also, Slashdot, I set this account to use the "classic" interface, why are you making me click buttons to see comments now?! I just want to see the page, not have to keep clicking "show more". This comment entry box is terrible too, the "Reply" button is too close to the box itself.
You are right.... (Score:4, Interesting)
From the Mac App Store guidelines:
2.24
Apps that use deprecated or optionally installed technologies (e.g., Java, Rosetta) will be rejected
Looks like you're right.
Re:So they are dropping another tech (Score:4, Interesting)
This is not a sign of lockdown ... java support on Macs having been drying up since Apple deprecated the Java-Cocoa bridge years ago. Nevermind it took them two years to release Java 6 which required users to have 64bit intel boxes. So, if you were doing any sort of Java desktop work (yes, this does exist), you were stuck on Java 5. If you were doing any server side work, you'd need to install SoyLatte to use the updated class libraries, nevermind dealing with performance issues from moving from JVM to JVM.
This is a GOOD THING as now Mac's will have a better supported and up-to-date JVM and updates should come quick and fast compared to Apple's sluggish almost apathetic attitude towards releases.
Re:Plenty of heads up. (Score:3, Interesting)
I believe that Apple would rather developers use Objective-C over Java for OSX development
Then does Apple plan to provide a tool to automatically translate the back-end of an existing application written in Java into Objective-C so that it can be used as a first-class citizen on Mac OS X 10.7?
Re:So they are dropping another tech (Score:2, Interesting)
Re:Patents (usually) wouldn't worry Apple (Score:3, Interesting)
MacOS X will probably be using J2SE, which the Sun/Oracle Java patent licenses will allow. Since Apple ported the Sun JVM, it would be a compliant suite. Sun/Oracle never gave free patent licenses for J2ME, however (as J2ME is very lucrative, being used in most cellphones around the world ("dumbphones" and featurephones)).
Android, however, unless it implements J2SE wouldn't be covered.
As for mobile patents, it would appear most don't have non-aggression pacts, going by all the mobile lawsuits all over the place. At least on the ones that aren't covered by RAND.
It doesn't come as a huge surprise though - I think the Java as an API in MacOS X has been quietly deprecated since Panther or so - you could still use it, but Apple pretty much depreceated it quietly for many years. It does affect a few apps I use though - Vuze and JBidWatcher, but those are on an older Mac that can't run Snow Leopard anyhow.
And another benefit, IMO? (Score:3, Interesting)
Unlike the Windows versions of Java, you aren't regularly harassed to install "Yahoo Toolbar", or "Google Chrome" or some other piece of software along with every single update they try to push out to you!
Re:So they are dropping another tech (Score:5, Interesting)
Larry and Steve are good friends. I would bet a lot of money that this is a "strategic" decision, not something in favor of customers directly.
Re:Plenty of heads up. (Score:4, Interesting)
You're right that the people that Apple is now pissing off won't be queueing up to port their applications to Objective-C. But it's clear that Apple doesn't want to invest that kind of money in that kind of user experience and then have to support it. They're already well on their way to slough off Carbon completely.
They want to settle on just one framework that they provide and support. (And yes, I said framework, not languages. There are supported bridges to Objective-C for Ruby and Python, and unsupported bridges in many other languages.)
I would conserve my bewilderment until Apple starts making it impossible to do, say, Qt apps.
My hunch tells me that there are more Cocoa applications than Java GUI applications, and even if that isn't strictly the case, that the number of people that are writing Java GUI applications each day are shrinking, and the number of people that are writing Cocoa applications each day are growing. (Yes, excluding iOS.)
Mac as a platform doesn't have a ton of software compared to Windows, but that doesn't mean that this makes even a sizable dent in the installed applications that people use. Name one pervasive Mac Java application besides Eclipse and Vuze.
(That doesn't mean that it's a valid reason to kill a Java runtime. But that sentence was discussing the impact, not the action.)
Re:I thought JAVA was supposed to be crossplatform (Score:3, Interesting)
I'm not sure why this was modded funny. IIRC Apache Harmony is written mostly in Java with only bits of C code to bootstrap the JVM written in Java.