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Apple Offers Free Cases To Solve iPhone 4 Antenna Problems 917
Apple just finished their press conference about the iPhone 4 antenna issues that have been widely reported and discussed in the past few weeks. Steve Jobs started by showing that the problem wasn't limited to iPhones, using videos of the BlackBerry Bold 9700, the HTC Droid Eris, and the Samsung Omnia 2 as examples, all of which dropped bars while being gripped in certain ways. He said, "This is life in the smartphone world. Phones aren't perfect. It's a challenge for the whole industry. Every phone has weak spots." He went on to say that only 0.55% of all iPhone 4 users have called in to complain about reception problems, and that the return rate on the iPhone 4 so far is less than a third of the return rate for the 3GS. Jobs then said that according to their data, the iPhone 4 drops an average of less than one additional call per hundred than the 3GS. He continued by pointing out that because the 3GS was based on the 3G, there was already a large supply of Bumpers, which most customers left the store with. When the iPhone 4 came out, the old Bumpers didn't fit, so stock was lower and fewer customers used them (80% vs. 20%). Therefore, Apple's solution to the antenna problems is to give a free case to every iPhone 4 purchaser before September 30. Refunds will be offered for those who already purchased one. Since they can't make the Bumpers fast enough, they'll be supplying other cases from third parties. Jobs also acknowledged recently reported problems with the proximity sensor, promising a future software update to fix it. Engadget's liveblog of the conference has a ton of pictures and more direct quotes from Jobs. It's worth looking at if only for pictures of Apple's anechoic testing chambers.
'Bout time (Score:4, Insightful)
They should have just owned up to the problem and offered this fix from the beginning of this mess!
Re:'Bout time (Score:4, Insightful)
This thing's only been out for a month!! at least give them some time to do their own testing, which they did!
Re:'Bout time (Score:4, Insightful)
Well, Steve Jobs conclusion was this:
So we've worked the last 22 days on this trying to solve the problem. And we think we've gotten to the heart of the problem.
So the heart of the problem is, smartphones have issues
Epic.
Re:'Bout time (Score:5, Interesting)
Furthermore, Apple does not admit the antenna is defective and does not intend to fix it.
Re:'Bout time (Score:5, Insightful)
Hi Dan...
Furthermore, Apple does not admit the antenna is defective and does not intend to fix it.
Its not defective if you cover it with plastic like everybody else in the handset industry. ;-)
And thats exactly the "Solution" Apple has adopted with the bumpers. Bandaid over a Bad design.
But shouldn't phones get better with each release?
These external segmented antennas cause one ADDITIONAL call drop in every 100 calls vs the 3Gs iphone.
Apple is saying See: Only One ADDITIONAL drop per Hundred!
I'm saying: You STILL measure call drops over a Hundred calls?
Bad enough they admit their newer phone is worse than their old phone, but then to admit they are still seeing multiple call drops in 100 calls.
My Nexus One has a full call log and not one call drop. It was a replacement for a iPhone 3G which dropped a few calls per month. Same carrier, Same area. Zero drops since I left Apple.
How does a bumper help the 3GS? (Score:5, Insightful)
Re:'Bout time (Score:5, Funny)
He went on to say that only 0.55% of all iPhone 4 users have called in to complain about reception problems
I'm guessing the other 99.45% couldn't get a signal.
Re:'Bout time (Score:5, Insightful)
Of course, hearing him talk about fixing the proximity sensor made me think that maybe that's my real problem. I don't know if it's AT&T's network that's dropping my calls, or my face. Either way, there are problems.
Re:'Bout time (Score:4, Interesting)
Actually, this reminds me of the early months of the X-Box 360, when Microsoft was claiming that failure rates were well below 2.5%. They claimed there were only so many complaints because it was so successful, and most X-Box 360 owners were happy with it, etc... In fact, the statements were almost identical if you swap the product and company names.
Now, looking back, we know that the early 360s had a higher than 50% failure rate. The number of complaints and warranty claims were much higher than Microsoft originally admitted. It came out that Microsoft was aware of the flaws that caused it, but shipped anyways to avoid costs/delays. They extended the warranty, and fixed the design problems eventually.
My predictions for the iphone 4? Within a few years we will learn that this problem is causing a significant problem for at least 10% of iphone4 users. Customer satisfaction with the phone was far lower than Apple is reporting. Apple engineers knew of the reception problems, but they decided to ship anyways. Apple might offer some kind of warranty extension, but between the free bumper and the short lifespan of phones anyways I doubt it.
Re:'Bout time (Score:5, Insightful)
C'mon guys. As I'm sure you're aware I'm no fan of Apple's short 3-4 year OS turnover, or its locking down of systems, or its overpriced $1000 hardware, or the fact my G4 is now obsolete (can't run anything newer than OS 10.4, or Safari 5, or the latest iTunes).....
Um, what was my point? Oh yeah.... they are doing the right thing. Did they drag their feet? Yes but so do most corporations. Look at Toyota: They've had engine problems since the 2000 which cost customers $5000 to replace blown-out engines after only 10-30,000 and they didn't finally acknowledge the problem until 2006 (under pressure from the US DOJ).
Apple solved this problem in just three weeks time, by giving away bumpers to protect the antenna from being shorted by the human hand. Bravo for them.
Re:'Bout time (Score:5, Insightful)
Re:'Bout time (Score:5, Insightful)
Re:'Bout time (Score:5, Informative)
True, to a point. It's also true that the FCC has a lot of rules about antenna placement in regards to peoples heads, and power issues. I've used the iPhone 4, and when not detuning the antenna due to a bad grip I found the signal strength and call quality to be excellent. Having said that I'll be waiting until Apple silently slipstreams a new version of the iPhone 4 into production before I buy one. All they need to do is put a 2 to 3 mil clear coat on the stainless antenna to solve the bridging issue.
All RF devices with antennas can be adversely affected by environment and one of the worst things for reception is a big bag of contaminated water. Having said that, the iPhone 4 is the only cell phone that I am aware of with an external antenna that can be detuned by bridging the antennas. THe Nexus one can, for example, be made to lose up to 17 dB of signal with the "death grip". The iPhone 4 can lose up to 24 dB with the same grip. This is due to the added degradation by detuning the antenna...
The reality is that a good signal is anything between about -107 and -51 dB, and most phones (iPhone 4 included) work fine down to about -113 dB, below which the call is dropped. Generally speaking, if you are anywhere over -89 dB you won't drop a call with the death grip all other things being equal. If you are less than -89 then you can grip your way to a dropped call.
Re:'Bout time (Score:4, Insightful)
Re:'Bout time (Score:5, Insightful)
I found it for you:
http://support.sprint.com/global/pdf/user_guides/htc/evo/htc_evo_ug.pdf [sprint.com]
Page 169. No sticker, but in the manual.
From my personal anecdotal experience with my i4 all the websites claiming doom and gloom were the ones spinning to me. Ars did a pretty good test showing that the new phone can lose ~20db of signal when held a certain way. That's enough to lose 1-2 bars and if that's all you have then it's definitely a problem. The most I can get to happen is 1 bar and it generally then bounces back up.
Apple brought the issue to light that has been a problem since phones started moving their antennas internal to the phone. A friend with a BB just IMed me laughing that he can do the same thing on his phone because of the weak signal he has in his office building.
I think Apple did all they could here. There is no way they have time to engineer, test, and possibly get FCC approval for some new phone in such a short amount of time. If the bumper isn't enough for people then return it. My i4 works fine with my usage and is much better reception wise than my 3GS was. Not that the 3GS was a stellar performer, but in places where I would drop calls on the 3GS (I live near the mountains) the i4 hasn't dropped yet.
Re:'Bout time (Score:5, Insightful)
Yes, all phones have areas where hand placement will attenuate the signal.
The iPhone has that _plus_ a whole new problem, caused by the uninsulated antennas. Great PR today by Jobs, but the people who know can see through it: yes all smart phones have reception issues, but the iPhone 4 introduced a new one. It's a serious gaffe on their part. The fact that the bumper fixes it proves that exposed antennas are a bad hardware design. The reason not everyone gets the same problem probably has to do with variable skin capacitance. My hands sweat a bit, and I've death gripped several iPhones 4 into submission. My own iPhone 3G does not behave that way.
I'm not trying to play "gotcha" with Apple, and it would unfortunately be business suicide to admit the gaffe clearly because we're such a society of ridiculers... so they've pretty much done the right thing. But there is a real problem with the exposed antenna design and it's too bad they (and many of we) can't admit it.
Cheers.
Re:'Bout time (Score:5, Insightful)
Re:'Bout time (Score:5, Insightful)
This isn't a problem that will obviously show up under any circumstances.
If you're in an area of strong signal strength, like the Apple campus, you aren't going to notice it. If you use it in disguise, like the leaked one was, you aren't going to encounter it, since insulating the antenna from the hand solves the problem. If you don't hold it in a certain way, the problem won't happen. Moreover, this sort of thing happens to all phones, to a greater or lesser extent. Hold it in a certain way, and it'll lose signal.
It's a problem that shows up on the final physical model for certain ways of holding the phone in areas without a strong signal. Assuming Apple did tests under those conditions, a few testers would report a problem. They expected a few testers to report a loss in signal strength, because that always happens. In other words, it was the sort of problem that even a good testing program might miss.
Then, of course, the final physical model was released to millions of people who lived and worked in areas with considerably different signal strengths and who held the phone in various ways, and the problem became evident.
Speaking as somebody who has written software with bugs that shipped with intact bugs, I sympathize. Some problems are hard to find by the QA department, and the only way to become aware of them is to ship and let users doing different things in different environments pound on the software.
Re:'Bout time (Score:4, Informative)
Re:'Bout time (Score:5, Informative)
Re:'Bout time (Score:4, Interesting)
A simple, low-cost solution would have been to apply a thin, transparent layer of some kind of insulating material over the antenna. Then it would look practically identical to what it is now, actually do what Apple says it does, in all use cases, and we would have evidence of competent engineers working at Apple.
Re:'Bout time (Score:4, Informative)
They were warned by their own antenna engineer that this was an issue.
http://gizmodo.com/5587815/top-apple-engineer-warned-jobs-about-antenna-problems [gizmodo.com]
Re:'Bout time (Score:5, Informative)
And according to Jobs during the Q&A [macrumors.com] after this announcement, the Bloomberg story (that Gizmodo cites) is bullshit.
Motive indeed. (Score:4, Interesting)
Gizmodo is a third party, and they have been pretty consistent in reporting on both points of view on this issue.
Actually Gizmodo may have an axe to grind [latimes.com], too. And the difference in reporting w.r.t. Apple since the "lost iphone" debacle is pronounced.
Re:'Bout time (Score:5, Funny)
What issue? This iphone only drops 1% more calls than the last. That's practically progress.
Re: (Score:3, Insightful)
Re:'Bout time (Score:5, Funny)
Give Apple a break. Of course they couldn't test the iPhone 4 prior to releasing it, on account that one of their employees lost the prototype which was later found by Gizmodo. How were they supposed to test it without the single prototype they had?
Re:'Bout time (Score:5, Insightful)
This thing's only been out for a month!! at least give them some time to do their own testing, which they did!
But they spent that month testing everyone else's phones. Namely "BlackBerry Bold 9700, the HTC Droid Eris, and the Samsung Omnia 2".
Apple has handled this poorly every step of the way. And at the end of the saga, they still try to weasel out of trouble with the old line "it wasn't just me, they are doing it too". I used to try that one on my mother when I got in trouble as a young boy. It didn't work for me then, so I don't see that it should work for Apple now.
Re:'Bout time (Score:5, Insightful)
This thing's only been out for a month!! at least give them some time to do their own testing, which they did!
They don't need a month for testing. I'm sure engineers replicated the issue fifteen minutes after they first heard about it, then figured out why it didn't show up in pre-launch testing about 15 seconds after that.
What took a month was meetings, consultations, coordination, marketing spin, legal input and legal review...
Anyone here not seen that drunken dance of the pointy-haired, parasitic elite at their own place of work?
Anyone work someplace where engineers are allowed to decide how to rectify high-profile issues? No?
Re:'Bout time (Score:4, Insightful)
Re:'Bout time (Score:5, Insightful)
Most critics of apple decry the pedestal that the fanbois and Apple put the products on. To me, Apple's sincere apology could only come off as more self agrandizing. Steve Jobs saying, "I'm deeply sorry for our oversight.", comes across as "We know that nobody deserves to be without an iphone and everyone's lives practically depend on them."
I'm not sure what you want from apple. either return the phone because you don't like it, or rejoice in getting a free Bumpa'
(i don't want to hear the argument "what if someone needs to call 911 and only have their left hand available to hold the phone")
Re:'Bout time (Score:5, Funny)
Re:'Bout time (Score:5, Insightful)
Re: (Score:3, Insightful)
Because the media has created this perception, Apple is giving everyone free Bumpers.
To be fair, Apple uses the media to create the perception of perfection, shininess, trendiness, and bug-freeness in their products. So I'd take it all as indicating that media whoring cuts both ways.
Simple math (Score:5, Informative)
But only .5% (not 5 percent, half a percent) of users have even reported the problem.
And how many users comprise .5%?
Based on 3 million iPhone 4's sold, that'd be 15,000.
Re:'Bout time (Score:5, Informative)
Re: (Score:3, Insightful)
yeah, "we'll provide cases for 2 months" is a bit of a cop-out unless they release a new version by then.
Re: (Score:3, Informative)
Also, I'm on an ATT family plan so my options were iPhone or terrible other ATT phone.
Re:'Bout time (Score:4, Insightful)
So in other words, the iPhone 4 sucks, but every other phone you'd consider sucks more.
Re:'Bout time (Score:5, Funny)
Yeah. Same boat here. I bought a bumper to fix it, but had to wait like 2 weeks to get it. During those weeks, holding the phone in pretty much any natural-feeling manner would result in signal loss. Maybe its a left-handed issue for people with small hands, but even with my right hand the only way I could avoid the issue was to extend my pinky finger as if I was the Queen of England enjoying a sip of tea.
Re:'Bout time (Score:4, Insightful)
Actually, what I've now read on Apple users forums even they are furious. They expected a real fix and they get what, a rubber band you put around the phone? That looks so slick and awesome.
Re:'Bout time (Score:5, Insightful)
Maybe the return rate was low because people wanted to check out the software fix they announced early on?
Re:'Bout time (Score:4, Insightful)
Cell phone quality has been so low for so long and people have become accustom to dropped calls "Are you there"s, etc that there is no need to apologize or say you did something wrong. Cell phone quality and its acceptance have become such a norm that my company is thinking of going to VOIP for its telephone including 911.
This is weird. I don't think I've ever had a dropped call that wasn't because the train went into a tunnel or something. Even many tunnels (or roads in valleys etc) are OK now, there'll be a tiny directional antenna at the end (picture [demon.co.uk]).
I've never had a dropped call while standing still.
Even landlines have their issues with heavy use. Special holidays and whatnot give those "We're sorry all circuits are busy, please try again later".
The only time I've heard anything of like that is after the 7/7/2005 attacks in London. Priority was given to pre-registered numbers (police, doctors etc. register their numbers). However, I only read that that was what happened, I didn't have any problem making calls myself.
Re:'Bout time (Score:5, Insightful)
Do you hold all phone manufacturers to the same standard?
Google learned first hand how hard it was to directly support a phone when they introduced the Nexus One. The Nexus One came with a whole list of issues, and Google was deluged with customer complaints. Complaints included service eligibility problems, people not receiving their phones in a timely manner, and technical issues like poor 3G reception. Basically people complained that the 3G signal would drop when they picked up their phone (sound familiar?). Google had to resort to email only support.
Verizon dropped the Nexus One in favor of the Droid Incredible, Sprint dropped the Nexus One in favor of the Evo, while T-Mobile barely acknowledges its existence, and will pretty much drop it in favor of the Samsung Galaxy S Vibrant.
The mainstream media didn't hype the flaws of the Nexus One, nor did they demand Google to rectify the problems. Instead the technology press produced articles like:
"Why hasn't the Nexus One Flopped (yet)?" - CNet
"Google Nexus One: A Successful Flop" PC Mag
"The Nexus One is a total sales flop" - Gizmodo
The list continues just Google it...
I think the real issue is that we expect Apple to have a higher standard, and the media measures Apple with that standard. Maybe that is why Apple is the perceived leader of the smartphone market.
As for my fanboism: Yes I like Apple computers, but I also have an Android phone that I'm pretty much stuck with. My point is shouldn't we hold all phone manufacturers to the same standard?
Remember after only 22 days, Apple makes a very public appeal to satisfy its customers. Sure they were pressured to act sooner rather than later, but they have a history of providing good customer support. Because of their popularity they don't have the luxury of quietly letting the model die like the Microsoft Kin or the Google Nexus One...
Easier solution (Score:5, Funny)
Re: (Score:3, Funny)
All Shiney, Metal and Glass (Score:3, Insightful)
But ram it into a condom to make it usable.
No surprise (Score:5, Interesting)
Pretty much what we would expect from any company in Apple's shoes. Damage control at minimum cost.
Apple's numbers are suspicious. Everyone I know with an iPhone 4 has the issue(s) but NONE of them have called AppleCare or gone to the Apple store to complain. They have all been patiently waiting for Apple to take care of them.
Re:No surprise (Score:5, Interesting)
That's key, and I don't see any way that they could have honestly believed that only 0.5% of their users were having trouble. They issued a press release saying they were going to work on a software update, and many were waiting for some kind of magic improvement.
My wife and I have both had problems, but neither contacted Apple Care. Apple Care was simply telling customers there was no problem, as they were instructed to do by Apple. This made it into the press and onto user forums. After that occurred, why would anyone go to Apple Care about this when they already knew what the result would be?!?
Re:No surprise (Score:5, Insightful)
Really, and is AT&T not logging your friends' dropped calls too, like they do with every dropped call on their network? Or are they just not making or receiving calls at all because the problem is so horrible for them that they just can't get a connection, and "waiting patiently" for someone to come fix their phone?
Signal attenuation due to grip is a more pronounced problem with this antenna design than with other phones. But the question is - does it matter at all, and is it impacting the day-to-day usage of most people? And the answer to that question is that it is not actually dramatically impacting most users.
Re:No surprise (Score:5, Insightful)
Unless you know hundreds of thousands of people, I'm going to trust AT&T and Apple's numbers, which cover _MILLIONS_ of users more than your anecdotal evidence covering, what, a half dozen?
The whole point of GP's post is that Apple's numbers are users who complained to their support or tried a return. The numbers themselves are not suspect, but the relevance of this measurement definitely is.
So how bad was it? (Score:5, Interesting)
On the other hand, first acknowledging that there is a problem, and then making excuses about other smartphones if the iPhone 4 is indeed worse seems odd at best. Acceptance and denial at the same time?
And finally, what are these cases? One of the things that people find appealing about the iPhone is that it looks good. Will people suddenly find themselves with a much less good looking phone if they want a proper signal?
Re:So how bad was it? (Score:5, Insightful)
It seems like they're trying to cloud the issue, since there are two problems. One that all smartphones face: Your hand can capacitively interact with the antenna in the phone, and cause signal loss.
The other, that the Apple iphone 4 supposedly faces (And didn't in previous generations): bridging the gap between two different antennas causing noise to be effectively introduced to both, drastically reducing signal.
The thing is, you can trigger the latter problem without your hand being near it by using something metal to bridge the two antennas, I've seen that in action.
A Rubber bumper around the edge is enough to prevent problem two, and problem one just isn't as significant a loss, so it's acceptable.
Re:So how bad was it? (Score:5, Insightful)
Well, I have one, and I don't use a case. I'm not sure if I can tell you how bad the problem really is, since I don't make many phone calls, and even though I do use my left hand when I do, my natural grip doesn't touch the weak spot.
Using data, it seems like it's slower when I touch the weak spot, so I don't do that. It's not my natural grip when using it for Web browsing either. And usually I'm using wi-fi anyway, in which case it doesn't seem to matter at all.
Not sure if that answers your question. I think it depends a lot on the user.
This was an entertaining one (Score:5, Interesting)
From the Q/A:
10:41AM Q: I can't get my Bold to drop right now, maybe you can show me how to do it?
Steve: You may not see it in certain areas.
Those are some yummy freshly picked cherries. (Score:5, Informative)
What's that? You're breaking up! (Score:4, Funny)
Only .55%? (Score:5, Funny)
Yet there's a suspiciously high number of calls on that line where the caller mumbles something incomprehensible and then hangs up.
Apple sermon (Score:5, Funny)
The Apple taketh away.
And on the third week of the coming of the iphone 4 Jobs said it was good... And gave to all gifts of bumpers to yoke the strength of the signal bar.
And it was good.
So sayeth the wise Jobs.
Book of Jobs (Score:4, Funny)
Steve finally has heard enough and speaks, giving a speech saying that he is not answerable to questions like other men, that he has experiences which ordinary mortals have not, and basically establishes that Steve has the right to do whatever he will with his creation, beyond reproach, and no one can question him. He then blesses the loyal apple fanboy, gives him free upgrades and a 140-year contract, and condemns his friends to windows mobile hell (althought he fanboy writes emails to Steve asking him to forgive his friends).
Hrm. not sure I shoudl have used an apple in a biblical parallel...
The others (Score:5, Insightful)
Re: (Score:3, Insightful)
Re:The others (Score:5, Interesting)
I thought it was hilarious that he said it 'iPhone 4 drops an average of less than one additional call per hundred than the 3GS.' My cell phone almost never drops calls. Certainly not one in a hundred to even start with. That's just sad.
Re:The others (Score:5, Insightful)
It's also a bit odd that Jobs actually has to stress "our new product is only worse than our old product by a factor of x" as a defense.
Since most other reviews I've seen say just how much better the reception is on the iPhone 4 compared to the 3gs (when not holding the phone in the 'wrong' way) if it loses more calls than it's predecessor than that would just go to stress how poorly the antenna design was. The external antenna screw up is essentially negating all other reception improvements and then some.
Re:The others (Score:5, Interesting)
No, it's about pointing out media sensationalism.
The primary feature of the phone is flawed. All they have to say is they made a mistake. The majority of this press conference was sugar coating a flaw which was probably known after the phones were through the manufacturing process.
Re: (Score:3, Insightful)
Exactly. People have studied how to do this stuff properly based on years of doing it. You don't do the sort of things that Jobs has just done.
Firstly, apologise. Secondly, what action are you going to take. Three, re-assure people you'll be checking the status personally. Four - take questions and be humble about it.
What Jobs has done is to leave the wound festering. He's just accused his audience of sensationalism, which is only going to piss them off. Maybe they were, but you don't do that. He's tried to
Re:The others (Score:5, Insightful)
Maybe if Apple wouldn't have used media sensationalism to hype their product in the first place, there wouldn't be such a backlash against unrealistic expectations. Apple's PR can be a double-edged sword....
Re:The others (Score:5, Insightful)
Yeah, well... live by the sword, die by the sword. Maybe if they'd quit trying to talk about how "magical" and "revolutionary" their products are like some sort of techo-Goebbles then they wouldn't get their hype bubble busted.
Re:The others (Score:4, Insightful)
Re:The others (Score:5, Informative)
>It kind of bugs me when there's a fairly common problem, and it gets swept up all out of proportion in one particular case. YMMV.
Is it though ? I've never had it on my HTC desire. Assuming every phone has a bad spot where you can reduce signal - okay, I'll bite it makes sense that it would be the case. But that doesn't mean it's the same problem. Apple's problem is they built the phone so that, that bad spot is in an area where the phone is held by LOTS of people ALL the time. Most notably it is directly where most left-handed people will hold the phone making them particularly impacted (and raising the question: did apple not test the device with any left handed users - they ARE 25% odd of the worlds population after all).
Apple's video is unclear here - I can't be utterly sure - but it looks to me like those other phones have to be held quite weirdly to hit the spot. Almost as if the phone designers had made a point to keep the antenna's sensitive areas away from where the user's hand will typically be. Apple on the other hand put it where it directly affects 25% of all people all the time and a significant number of the rest on a regular basis.
If that's the case then this problem IS an apple fault and was NOT overblown.
This is how it works. (Score:3, Funny)
Only 0.55% of iPhone 4 owners have called in about reception issues, he said.
I wonder why...
What the hell, Steve? (Score:4, Interesting)
"Low numbers of complaints and free cases"... (Score:3, Insightful)
WTF? (Score:5, Insightful)
Re:WTF? (Score:5, Funny)
It's an Apple story. Apple media events get priority posting because with their walled garden approach, once its done, that's all there is to it but it's presented in a very professional manner. With Linux stories, everybody wants to review the text of the story first and perhaps rewrite it. With Microsoft stories, everybody is waiting for the first service pack before posting.
Double Speak (Score:4, Funny)
Steve Jobs: "We've been trying to understand this so when we solve it, we really solve it, not slap a band-aid on it."
Steve Jobs: "Here's a free bumper to fix the antenna issue"
So to sum up... (Score:5, Funny)
...it's not a problem, the problem is unavoidable, everybody else has this problem too, and we're going to fix it.
Bold claim is bogus (Score:3, Insightful)
Make me wonder how they rigged that one up.
I'm Catholic... (Score:4, Funny)
quick poll (Score:5, Insightful)
How many of you people complaining actually HAVE an iPhone 4 and are actually experiencing the problem?! I for one cannot chime in on this debate yet because I'm up in Canada and we're not getting the iPhone 4 until July 30. (And you bet I'll be getting one).
I don't understand all this over-hyped apple-bashing. I know there are a lot of haters, but seriously, what more can you ask for from a company. Here's a direct quote from Steve from the Q&A session:
"For those customers we'll get them a case, and if that doesn't work, we'll get them a full refund. And we'll continue to work on antennas that don't have this problem."
Ummm .. they have a solution for you, free of charge. If you that doesn't solve your problem, or if you don't like their solution, they're offering a full refund! I'm not sure how much more they can do. They're not forcing you to buy any of their products.
Did you read that last sentence?! That's right, you actually have a choice!! Yay!
I guess people just like the attention on hating on others?! I don't know. You kids these days, can't be happy, can you?
Re:quick poll (Score:5, Insightful)
And this is for a group of people who, mostly, didn't even appear to own an iPhone or be affected by the problem. They still want blood anyway, for some reason.
Engadget's Page Refesh = Awesome (Score:4, Informative)
Re:Engadget's Page Refesh = Awesome (Score:4, Informative)
Well, it is a liveblog, so the auto-refresh is kinda nice. If it weren't there, you'd have to manually refresh the page if you wanted to get the minute-to-minute updates.
Also, there's a little link at the top of the page to turn the auto-refresh off.
Free KoolAid for all! (Score:3, Insightful)
And after Sept 30?? (Score:5, Interesting)
It's interesting that no-one seems to be paying special attention to the Sept 30 expiration of Apple's offer of free Bumper cases. In my mind, that hints at a few troubling scenarios that aren't properly addressed by today's press conference:
A) Apple will end up providing free cases for the iPhone 4 indefinitely.
B) After Sept 30, you have to pay for a case to solve a problem with the iPhone 4 that Apple officially acknowledges.
C) After Sept 30, revised iPhone 4 hardware will be hitting the shelves.
Both (A) and (B) seem highly unlikely...which leads me to believe (C) is the likely outcome. But course Apple doesn't want to cannibalize sales of existing iPhone 4 stock and slow down sales momentum, so they're keeping info about revised hardware under a very tight wrap. Maybe that means you should buy an iPhone 4 just yet?
Re:I see a lot of denial in this post (Score:5, Informative)
When you put it in perspective and consider the data offered, it is a fairly minor problem.
1) Every phone exhibits signal attenuation to some degree when the hand is placed on/near the antenna assembly, and many can be made to exhibit this same behavior;
2) The dropped call data from ATT shows that the iPhone 4 has performed less than 1 *more* dropped call per 100 calls than the 3GS - an increase, and a sign of a problem, but certainly not in the "IF YOU HAZ IPOHNE 4 U WILL DIEZ" class of problems.
3) 1.7% have been returned so far (about 1/3 the rate for the iPhone 3GS)
4) ~0.5% of the sales have prompted a call to AppleCare about this problem.
5) 3 Million units have been sold so far.
Does this sound like it's a widespread problem where 3 million iPhone 4's are nonfunctional? If all these iPhone 4's were causing call after call after call to drop and just weren't working, the return rate & AppleCare volume would be much higher. Their response is to adjust the signal strength algorithm being used to more accurately reflect the strength of the signal, to offer a free bumper case with each purchase, and to say "if you really find it intolerable, return it for a full refund." If you were following any of the coverage, Steve Jobs actually did offer an apology to "the small number of users affected by this," as well.
What more, realistically, do you expect them to do?
How did they get those numbers? (Score:5, Insightful)
Ask yourself where those numbers came from. .5%)
How does AT&T track dropped calls?
How many people will call support when they are told a fix is on the way? How many people call Apple Care? (thats the
When the calls get into support, how many are redirected to AT&T for "dropped" calls and then classified as a "non-issue"?
If you don't ask where the numbers came from, you can't tell when you are being lied to. If you've worked at any company at all you'd know how bastardized statistics can be -- you can get them to mean anything you want by hand-waving, reclassificaiton, etc.
Of course, for people that don't question, it becomes entirely what Jobs wanted by presenting this data...a "small" issue.
Re:I see a lot of denial in this post (Score:5, Insightful)
"The dropped call data from ATT shows that the iPhone 4 has performed less than 1 *more* dropped call per 100 calls than the 3GS - an increase, and a sign of a problem, but certainly not in the "IF YOU HAZ IPOHNE 4 U WILL DIEZ" class of problems."
Ah, the beauty of statistical slight of hand. This number is incredibly misleading and you, as many others surely have, fell for it.
The important and telling ratio is [iPhone 4 dropped calls] / [iPhone 3GS dropped calls]. i.e. how many times worse is an iPhone 4 than and iPhone 3GS.
We don't get that number but we do get this other number that lets us draw a graph of how much worse the iPhone 4 is than the 3GS as a function of iPhone 3GS' dropped calls.
The resulting graph is damning no matter where you look. Let's assume that the "less than 1 more" is ~1 more (if it were less than 0.5, Apple would have been happy to point that out). If the iPhone 3GS drops 1/100, then iPhone 4 drops 2/100, or twice as many calls! The relative performance of iPhone 4 gets better as the iPhone 3GS' dropped calls fraction gets higher (i.e. AT&T's networks is worse). So if i3GS drops 5/100 i4 drops 6/100 which is only 1.2x worse.
Essentially, the i4 is much worse than i3GS or AT&T's network stinks.
Re:I see a lot of denial in this post (Score:5, Informative)
The important and telling ratio is [iPhone 4 dropped calls] / [iPhone 3GS dropped calls]. i.e. how many times worse is an iPhone 4 than and iPhone 3GS.
We don't get that number but we do get this other number that lets us draw a graph of how much worse the iPhone 4 is than the 3GS as a function of iPhone 3GS' dropped calls.
I can give you something very close to that number. I have seen figures for call drops from phones on several different networks. Generally the figures I see are somewhat anonymized to indicate only the baseband chipset used by the phone in question (apart from those made by my employer).
- A good phone drops under 1% of calls, when averaged over several million call attempts. The very best phones (which are usually inexpensive feature phones) get about 0.7% calls dropped.
- A decent smartphone drops something around 1.5-2% of calls, over a similar number of call attempts.
- A high-end Smartphone using the Infineon chipset drops around 2.7% of calls. The only such device I know of is the iPhone (3/3GS).
If the iPhone4 is dropping 1% more calls than the iPhone3/3GS, this implies something around 3.5% of calls dropped, which is a very poor result indeed. My employer gets put under a lot of pressure by networks for any device which is worse than 1.5%.
There is some variation in calls dropped by a given phone between different networks. This is a function of network planning, congestion and/or poor cell-site configuration, as well as the measurement methodology (which differs slightly between networks). However, the relative positioning of different devices in the league table doesn't change so much, and the absolute figures are pretty similar as well.
Designing a touchscreen smartphone with good RF performance is a huge challenge. A noisy high-speed apps processor, multiple radios and the presence of a large metal shield over most of the device (i.e. the LCD) are all major problems for designers to overcome. Oftentimes when I look at device teardowns, it is clear that antenna design was a total afterthought. There are a few companies who consistently do a good job in this area: Nokia, Sony-Ericsson and Motorola come to mind (HTC are nearly there as well) - almost every product from these is above average in performance. Others are far less consistent in RF performance, although their products may be very shiny!
More anecdotally, my Nokia E71 has a far better ability to hang on to a signal in a poor signal area than my wife's iPhone (3G). Your Mileage Probably Won't Vary (YMPWV?)
AC for reasons which should be obvious.
Re: (Score:3, Insightful)
Put the antenna someplace your hand isn't likely to cover. I'd have to hold my phone sideways to cover the antenna while talking.
1 more dropped call can be a 100% increase (Score:5, Insightful)
When following the live blogging, one thought that just keeps coming to my mind, about how Steve J told Steve W about how much they made. Do people really believe in Steve J?
Re:I see a lot of denial in this post (Score:5, Insightful)
Wow, way to buy into all the marketing speak.
Every phone can be manipulated into signal degradation, but this phone allows the user to short the antenna while holding the device in a natural manner. Hardly the same thing.
Self-serving comments from ATT notwithstanding, the iphone has always been known to have relatively poor reception. It's a fantastic little device that does everything extremely well except make phone calls. And ATT's comment only cements that this model has the worst reception of all. This is a problem.
No way to verify the figure, but considering the short amount of time this has been out, and the publicity around the antenna problems, it's same to assume that a) not all phones that have been 'sold' have even been unboxed yet, and b) many who would be returning the phones were awaiting word from Apple on a recall or other remedy. In other words, this statistic is meaningless.
Another misleading number. Only a small fraction of people would ever call Apple support about this -- they'd be more likely to blame ATT, or to accept that the iphone just has poor reception.
You could easily turn same number around and completely change the meaning -- 'Within just weeks of the iphone's release, tens of thousands of user calls flooded AppleCare with complaints of antenna problems'.
Ford sold over 11 million Pintos. That doesn't excuse them from releasing a shoddy product that could have easily been fixed before its release.
What percentage of Pinto buyers do you think called Ford to complain about exploding gas tanks? How many of the cars were returned within a month of sale? Do you think other cars could be manipulated into having their tanks explode?
The iphone is a very cool device, but that doesn't give Apple a free pass when they screw something up.
Re:I see a lot of denial in this post (Score:4, Funny)
I see.
So your completely scientific safe-to-assume's, more-likely's, and other speculative commentary are a more authoritative way to judge the scope of this problem than Apple & ATT's real-world usage data.
Thanks for clearing that up for us.
Re:I see a lot of denial in this post (Score:5, Insightful)
The true problem is that they have a product with a flaw that was touted as the coolest thing in phone design since caller ID.
It was a marketing department screw up -- any antenna designer will tell you that exposing the antenna like that is a stupid idea. But, the coolness factor won out and the engineers had to do what they were told.
I for one am glad that they're getting raked over the coals. Too many times we engineers are forced to go along with stupid ideas: its rare that the full consequences hit back at those making the decisions.
The only thing left for Apple to do to make me happy is to admit that they put a higher priority on making the phone "cool" than on making it functional. Jobs didn't do that today and probably never will.
I've had to go along with way too many of these types of decisions.... Maybe this will be a lesson to others in the future.
Re:I see a lot of denial in this post (Score:5, Insightful)
This whole press conference was weird, including the errors in the slides he was showing...
Re:I see a lot of denial in this post (Score:5, Insightful)
"We admit that screwed up, and bad. We'll make it right. Here's how."
Steve Jobs: 'We're not perfect. We want to make *all* of our users happy.'
Steve Jobs: 'We screwed up.'
Steve Jobs: 'To our customers who are affected by the issue, we are deeply sorry"
And obviously, they are trying to make it right by giving you a free case and, if your not cool with that, giving you a full refund, no questions asked. What more do you want exactly?
Re:I see a lot of denial in this post (Score:4, Insightful)
It's almost like you wanted him to say:
It's very hard, when we look at this data, not to conclude that there is a problem. But it's a problem affecting a small percentage of users. ... we care about every user, and we're not going to stop until every one of those is happy....Let me tell you what we're going to do. First think, we've released iOS 4.0.1, which fixes the wrong formula for bars and there was a nasty Exchange bug, and that's fixed too.We recommend that every iPhone owner update to it. Second, a lot of people have told us, the bumper solves the signal strength problem. Why don't you just give everyone a case? Okay. Everyone will get a free case.
He pretty much said exactly that. There's a problem. We want to fix it, here's how.
I'm not an iPhone user (I use a Nokia N900 and like it), but the response seems pretty much exactly what everyone wanted it to be.
Re: (Score:3, Funny)
Apparently your touch screen made it a little difficult to type as well.
Re:Apple MacBook Display repair (Score:5, Insightful)
What was your point?
Yet you were able to walk into an Apple store and ask for help. You didn't have to wait on hold on some toll free tech support number and ask for an RMA number...
They are able to give their full undivided attention to you in within 2 hours. You just need to make an appointment first.
This indicates that other people have went through the trouble of making an appointment and will expect to not have to wait when they arrive. You could have easily made an appointment while in the store, online prior to going to the store, or even call them to make an appointment. I have had my MacBook Pro serviced by them, and I made an appointment. They promptly looked at my laptop when I arrived for my appointment. They identified the bad part and was able to replace it within the time alloted to each appointment which meant I was able to leave the store with a fully repaired laptop within 45 minutes of my arrival. I had AppleCare so price was not an issue.
A coworker had to have the motherboard replaced. He went to the store, and they verified that it wasn't something that could be easily fixed and would need to stay at least overnight. He was pleasantly surprised by a phone call around 5pm that said that if he made it to the store before they closed later that night, he would be able to pick up his repaired laptop.
Sounds about right. I replaced my Sony Vaio with the Apple MacBook Pro because after 1.5 years the backlight on the 17" screen went out. Getting the part from Sony was going to set me back $800 and I still had to do all the repairs myself. So instead of repairing the laptop, I took the oportunity to upgrade, and I made sure I purchased AppleCare with the laptop. The laptop is now over 3 years old and, other than that one visit to the Apple store, it has never given me any more problems. I'm using it now.
Excellent news! I'm glad you were able to save some money. I'm surprised you were able to purchase a new screen for only $120, but as long as the MacBook works!
You do realize it's like taking your car to the dealer for repairs versus doing it yourself with a third-party part that may or may not work. Apple warrantees their repair. You were able to find an inexpensive replacement part and fix it yourself which in the end meant that you assumed all the risk. Luckily everything worked out for you.
So you think you are better than everybody else, and don't need an appointment? Was the staff rude or were you just frustrated that they couldn't drop everything and look at your laptop?
Again I'm glad everything worked out in the end for you.
Re:Apple MacBook Display repair (Score:5, Interesting)
It wasn't _repairing_ it that required an appointment. It was _talking_ to them about repairing it. Just standing there talking to them in their store.
The basic Macbook (not macbook pro) is 1000 but often discounted to 800.
The fact that they would make a profit while repairing it doesn't bother me. The fact that their charge would be about 600$ for a half hour of labor (taking into account the cost of the part) bothered me.