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Apple Fails To Deliver On Windows 7 Boot Camp Promise 279

Posted by Soulskill
from the see-you-next-year dept.
SkydiverFL writes "For those fans of Apple's Boot Camp package, it looks like you might be waiting on the next 'end of year' to use Windows 7 on your shiny silver boxes. Back in October of this year, Apple published a rather short, but affirmative promise stating quite simply that, 'Apple will support Microsoft Windows 7 (Home Premium, Professional, and Ultimate) with Boot Camp in Mac OS X Snow Leopard before the end of the year. This support will require a software update to Boot Camp.' The support page has no updates regarding the new version. Maybe they're waiting for iSlate?"
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Apple Fails To Deliver On Windows 7 Boot Camp Promise

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  • by jonbryce (703250) on Friday January 01, 2010 @07:24PM (#30617066) Homepage

    There is no need to wait. I installed Windows 7 bootcamp on the day it was released on Technet, and it worked fine with the Vista drivers.

    • There is no need to wait. I installed Windows 7 bootcamp on the day it was released on Technet, and it worked fine with the Vista drivers.

      This is what I would assume since they are not using unique hardware anymore.

    • by Psyborgue (699890)
      Same here. I have Leopard and Win 7 64 bit on my macbook pro (Santa Rosa). Works perfectly.
    • by Z_A_Commando (991404) on Friday January 01, 2010 @10:27PM (#30618736)

      I have a friend with a 2008 MacBook Pro that absolutely could not, for whatever reason, get Windows 7 to run correctly on Bootcamp. He would start it up and be able to get to the login screen, but his MBP would report the keyboard and touchpad as something non-generic and require a driver that doesn't yet exist for Window 7. He could force-install a generic driver but the exact same thing would happen the next time Windows restarted because it detects a less than ideal driver and replaces it.

      Last I checked he was running 7 inside VMware instead, but he'd rather run it without a host OS under Bootcamp. As has been said lower here, it's not about the ability to run Windows 7 on Bootcamp, it's Apple's support of it. What's disappointing is they've had a lot longer than the GA of Windows 7 to put together this "update" and still haven't done it.

      • Re: (Score:3, Interesting)

        by Fussen (753791)
        I have had similar issues with the keyboard drivers myself. I have a 2007 Macbook Pro and when I tried to install the 64-bit version of Windows, I couldn't initialize the install because after EFI boot, I couldn't hit "Any key" to start the installer..

        The 32-bit version of Windows 7 was a success.. for some reason, that installer allowed me to press any key and begin the process. I am writing from Windows 7 on my mac right now, and I used the snow leopard disc to install my drivers. All went fine as such
    • by MobyDisk (75490)

      What about the special drivers that let you set the volume, screen brightness, etc?

    • by PatJensen (170806) on Friday January 01, 2010 @11:00PM (#30618974) Homepage
      This is not true. I also installed Windows 7 off of TechNet at launch, but a lot of stuff is broken. You will not get external audio jack support with Windows 7 OEM drivers on iMac 2009 machines. You will also not get internal microphone or mixer support with Windows 7 OEM drivers on iMac 2009 machines. If you intend on using any Voice over IP applications, Cisco IP Communicator, Ventrilo, Microsoft OCS - install Vista. And, updated sound drivers will not fix your problem. The Intel chipset drivers that ship native to boot camp are what are needed to map the mixer. Windows 7 driver support on iMac's are a sorry state of affairs.
      • by dissy (172727) on Saturday January 02, 2010 @05:00AM (#30620700)

        You are correct in that the OEM drivers built into Windows 7 do not support Apple hardware.

        Just install the drivers off the OS X DVD into Windows 7 and all that hardware will work.

        If your complaint is the drivers are not built into Win7, then you are complaining at the wrong company. Apple does not make Windows 7...

    • Actually, I ran across a nasty bug when I first put Windows 7 on a drive in my Mac Pro.

      My system has 4 physical hard drives in it. The first was labeled "OS X Boot" and the 2nd. and 3rd. had labels of "Data 1" and "Data 2". I installed Windows 7 on the 4th. drive. All went well, except when booted into Windows 7, it displayed the OS X drives out of order. (With the latest version of Boot Camp drivers on the Snow Leopard DVD, they provide "read only" support of the OS X HFS+ volumes in Windows.) It was

  • Why bother? (Score:3, Insightful)

    by moderators_are_w*nke (571920) on Friday January 01, 2010 @07:26PM (#30617080) Journal

    If you wanted a Windows laptop why would you pay all that money?

    • by furball (2853)

      Really good support. Like crazy good support.

    • Re: (Score:3, Interesting)

      by Darkness404 (1287218)
      Because some people have applications that need Windows to run for work, school, home, etc. that don't run nicely in VirtualBox.
      • by Guy Harris (3803)

        Because some people have applications that need Windows to run for work, school, home, etc. that don't run nicely in VirtualBox.

        And not on Parallels Workstation or VMWare Fusion either, presumably.

      • by jedidiah (1196)

        I dunno. Some of MY work apps are mandated to run in a VM.

        OTOH, the only real dog I've seen on the personal side for VirtualBox is iTunes [snicker].

    • by SuperKendall (25149) on Friday January 01, 2010 @07:39PM (#30617194)

      If you buy a Mac Laptop, you can run Windows, Linux or OS X, all fully supported.

      If you buy a Windows laptop, you can't officially run OS X - and of course it comes pre-loaded with Windows, not OS X.

      Considering you also get better quality hardware, it seems reasonable to pay a little more for more choice.

      • Re: (Score:2, Insightful)

        by yincrash (854885)
        A lot of people would say that 'better quality hardware' is debatable.
        • by zblack_eagle (971870) on Friday January 01, 2010 @09:23PM (#30618170)

          While I consider my aluminium macbook to be of excellent design and hardware quality, the first generation macbook that I had before this was absolutely atrocious. Random reboots, dying batteries, malfunctioning chargers, wireless that wouldn't connect under bootcamp and an optical drive that required prying a second disc half way in to be able to eject the first disc.

          On the topic of the article, Vista drivers work fine, but one thing I did not appreciate was having to (though easily) find a work around to Apple's arbitrary restriction on limiting the installation of x64 drivers to the macbook pros. Not sure what the stupid rationale would've been for that as the drivers work fine and nobody would've chosen to buy a macbook pro just to run Windows x64

        • Re: (Score:3, Informative)

          by Khyber (864651)

          Speaking as a former repair tech that still gets the 'honor' of fixing other people's broken new-model macbooks, I'll just say "Look at the actual board vendors." Apple hasn't realy "MADE" their own hardware in years. They just say what hardware they want and let the board makers pack it on and make it work.

          Fuck that noise, you're better off trying to piece your own system together. In fact, many companies exist to do just that for you, nowdays, with discrete powerful MXM graphics that you can upgrade. Bare

      • by IANAAC (692242) on Friday January 01, 2010 @08:13PM (#30617442)
        It's readily available in non-Apple form.
      • by StikyPad (445176)

        I don't eschew choice; I eschew carrying around a small box with a large price tag and a conspicuous "steal me" icon on the lid.

        I also eschew the anemic power of laptops compared to desktops (where's my quad core already?) and so long as I'm compromising, I might as well save some money in the process.

        • by drinkypoo (153816)

          You can get a quad core laptop, but only in a 18" (or maybe 17" by now.) And the battery life is only alleged to be a little over two hours, which is marketdroid speak for a little under two hours, or not long enough to watch a fucking movie. Still, you can get such a thing... just not from apple :)

      • Re: (Score:3, Informative)

        by Totenglocke (1291680)
        Agree. I'm thinking of getting a Macbook Pro, and it's tempting just to run it Windows 7 only. OS X really doesn't have any advantages over Win 7 that I can think of - especially since my friends who own Mac's are always trying to find scripts and programs to download to get OS X to have features that Windows has had for forever (hibernate, keyboard shortcut to lock the screen, things like that).
        • by jo_ham (604554)

          Virus protection issues - the lack of need to run a virus program. Same for malware.

          Set shortcut for hotcorner/screensaver and press it to lock screen. No need for script.

          No hibernate on OS X, but sleep is virtually flawless and performs almost the same task - if you ever want to close down for long enough that a battery will run flat, why not just power off completely? Is it because it takes a week for windows to boot? No idea.

          Also, define "forever" did Win 3.11 for Workgroups have hibernate? Did W95 have

    • Because you can't run MacOS X on a generic laptop (easily or legally). On the other hand, Windows 7 is magnificent and if I have to replace my Macbook Pro I'll probably just buy a Windows 7 based laptop and dual boot with Ubuntu.

  • Umm... (Score:5, Insightful)

    by Darkness404 (1287218) on Friday January 01, 2010 @07:27PM (#30617086)
    Um, I was under the impression that it was trivial to install Windows 7 on a Mac even without official boot camp support (per http://www.simplehelp.net/2009/01/15/using-boot-camp-to-install-windows-7-on-your-mac-the-complete-walkthrough/ [simplehelp.net]) whats the difference between the tutorial and what you would do normally?
    • by furball (2853)

      Higher quality drivers for video, touchpad (on laptops) support, Eye Sight etc. That's really what Bootcamp offers are the drivers that lets you get full mileage out of the Mac hardware in the context of Windows.

  • -Windows (Score:2, Funny)

    by pubwvj (1045960)
    New self-cleaning nano-tech glass allows one to avoid doing windows.
  • running windows 7. what's the issue? everything works great.
    • The issue, I would guess, is that while you managed to get it to run well, there's a decent percentage of macs with hardware that won't work perfectly with Windows 7. Apple not giving official support of Windows 7 means most users probably won't try to install it. If they do try to install it and run into a problem somewhere down the line, Apple tech support will most likely refuse to help since the feature isn't supported yet.

    • running snow leopard, debian, and win7. what's the issue? everything works great.

    • "Apple will support Microsoft Windows 7 (Home Premium, Professional, and Ultimate) with Boot Camp in Mac OS X Snow Leopard before the end of the year. This support will require a software update to Boot Camp. - [emphasis added]"

      Apple doesn't say you can't run it now, only that they don't yet support it.

  • by DigitalGodBoy (142596) on Friday January 01, 2010 @07:31PM (#30617112) Homepage
    I had the RTM installed on a first-gen Mac Pro and everything worked out of the box. Sure the Apple drivers put a startup disk selector in, and fix the clock sync issue but driver-wise what's the point?
  • by TimHunter (174406) on Friday January 01, 2010 @07:31PM (#30617118)
    ...line up here on the left. No need to crowd, there'll be plenty of room for everybody. This is Slashdot, so remember the rules. Only fags and hipsters use Macs. "Fanboys" is spelled "fanbois." Macs are expensive, shiny and there aren't any games worth playing.

    Use the Preview button!

    • Re: (Score:3, Insightful)

      by drmitch (1065012)
      I dunno. I switched to Mac in September after making fun of them for my entire life. Although I paid more than I would for a PC (just saying I would have purchased a 500 dollar PC laptop that didn't have the same specs as a MBP) I am quite happy with the little things that Apple does in the hardware and software. I do miss a few Windows programs (especially being an engineer and coder and needing the special software/hardware) but 98% of the time, I am perfectly happy with the visuals, lack of viruses, *NIX
  • oh wait, it wasn't broken, was it?

    drat. can't bash. lets post to slashdot anyway!

  • Bootcamp a gimmick (Score:5, Interesting)

    by fermion (181285) on Friday January 01, 2010 @07:43PM (#30617222) Homepage Journal
    I always saw bootcamp as a gimmick to encourage MS Windows users to switch to Apple Hardware. If one buys a mac, and really can't stand OS X, one can always go back to MS Windows. Or if MS Windows must be run occasionally, then Bootcamp is an effective way to do so.

    While it is valid to complain that Apple missed a deadline, I am kind of surprised that Apple even made the effort to create a deadline. I cannot imagine people paying Apple prices to run MS Windows on an exclusive basis. I can imagine them paying such prices to run virtual machines with other OS.

    I would rather see Apple point customers toward Parallels or Fusion rather than working on trying to get MS Windows to work as the base OS. What would be even more cool is a kernal that could then be used to run any number of OS in virtual mode.

    • by stokessd (89903) on Friday January 01, 2010 @07:54PM (#30617310) Homepage

      I always saw bootcamp as a gimmick to encourage MS Windows users to switch to Apple Hardware. If one buys a mac, and really can't stand OS X, one can always go back to MS Windows. Or if MS Windows must be run occasionally, then Bootcamp is an effective way to do so.

      I use BootCamp for playing games (I still play a lot of UT2004) and for doing CAD (Autodesk Inventor and PCB design). All those really benefit from direct booting into windows. Plus the fascist copy protection in the CAD programs makes it difficult to run in parallels. I do use parallels for light CAD work and such, and I just boot from the BootCamp partition using parallels. IT's the best of both worlds.

      I need windows around to do things like PCB design, because there are no viable Mac alternatives. There is a lot of scientific packages are just plain don't exist on the Mac. With the Mac I have OS X for my daily stuff and much of my engineering design work, and occasionally use Windows for the few things I can't do on the mac. All on one quiet machine.

      Windows 7 works fine on my mid 2009 17" MBP using the vista drivers. I run XP though, as I don't need or want the extra features of "7" and the smaller footprint of XP makes it nicer for my needs.

      Sheldon

    • Re: (Score:3, Funny)

      by Lemmy Caution (8378)

      Games games game games games. Games, games game games. Games = games. Game games; games, games games games, games and games. Games? Games!

      Games.

    • by jo_ham (604554)

      Games and good hardware.

      I know a guy that has an office full of Aluminium iMacs that only run Windows - he likes the design, especially the space saving and the quality of the screens. It was the best all-in-one machine he could find.

  • by RunzWithScissors (567704) on Friday January 01, 2010 @07:43PM (#30617226)
    Oddly, Windows 7 works just fine on my MacBook Pro 15".

    There was a Firmware update about 2 weeks ago, which may have been what we were waiting for; but I had no problems with it when I installed it today.

    -Runz
    • Re: (Score:2, Interesting)

      by ekgringo (693136)
      I have been successfully running 64-bit Windows 7 on my late 2008 15" MacBook Pro since RC2 came out, using Vista drivers. I don't think I can switch between the two video cards and I wish I could adjust the sensitivity of the multi-touch trackpad, but everything works fine for the most part. Hell, it runs games almost as well as my home-built gaming PC.
  • by WarpedCore (1255156) on Friday January 01, 2010 @07:51PM (#30617296)
    From what I heard, OS X uses certain low level functions that control processor speed/voltage within the OS itself versus what conventionally would be done through a BIOS on a normal PC. Apple uses EFI... I know that. Just reading about some of the "dangers" if using a Mac to run Linux... main reason being, you have a likeliness of damaging the CPU if all you run are intensive tasks under Linux. Apple wrote drivers that deal with this stuff under Windows. All in all, Vista drivers will work fine... but I'm just picky about "official bootcamp support" even if it is a gimmick. Apple wouldn't be putting an ounce of elbow grease into it unless there was something important they were writing into it to ensure a smooth experience.
    • by dgatwood (11270) on Friday January 01, 2010 @08:55PM (#30617844) Journal

      Windows 7 supports EFI natively. You apparently do need Apple drivers to use the internal keyboard and trackpad on laptops, though.

      Regarding power management, AFAIK, the worst case scenario would be if the SMC drivers didn't load, in which case after the SMC's watchdog timer fires, the SMC should bring all the fans up to full blast. You're not going to overheat the CPU by failing to load the drivers. You can verify this if you'd like. With your computer idle, unload the fan control KEXT. Thirty seconds or a minute later, the fans should ramp up. When you reload the KEXT, they should spin immediately back down to what you'd expect with the machine idle. At least this is what happens in the G5 towers. I'm assuming the Intel laptops behave the same way.

      CPU power management is handled by the CPU, not by any special bits in the chipset, AFAIK, so that should be unaffected no matter what. And the hardware is designed to protect against getting too hot, so at some point, the CPU starts putting itself to sleep to keep the temperature within bounds, and if even that isn't enough, the computer shuts down. AFAIK, most of that happens in hardware, so even a really broken OS shouldn't be able to damage hardware. At the very least, it's pretty unlikely.

      • by Psyborgue (699890)

        Windows 7 supports EFI natively. You apparently do need Apple drivers to use the internal keyboard and trackpad on laptops, though.

        The keyboard and trackpad work from a fresh install, but not everything on the keyboard is mapped to the right place and multi touch does not function. The vista drivers work, through, so it's not a huge deal.

    • by MobyDisk (75490)

      you have a likeliness of damaging the CPU if all you run are intensive tasks under Linux.

      [citation needed]

    • Re: (Score:3, Insightful)

      by selven (1556643)

      I use Ubuntu on a Macbook. The power management (battery life, suspend, hibernate) is much better on Mac OS, and there are a few drivers that need to be installed, but otherwise it works just fine.

  • I've been running Win7 64-bit Enterprise on my work Macbook 2,1 since August or September. Had to fiddle with it since this machine isn't supported for 64-bit environments, but it worked.

    • I did something similar with a Mini.. I don't get why they don't support 64bit on it, since it's perfectly capable of it. Other than greed I guess.
  • BZZZZT (Score:2, Interesting)

    by Azureflare (645778)
    Sorry, this story is just plain wrong. Windows 7 works fine under the existing bootcamp. Macs are just glorified Intel machines after all. As long as you expose the bios interface that allows windows xp/vista to run, windows 7 will run fine too.

    Sure, there may be a grain of truth in the article. Windows 7 is not "officially" supported by Apple. Neither is linux, and that runs fine on Macs too!
  • Back in October of this year, Apple published a rather short, but affirmative promise stating quite simply that, 'Apple will support Microsoft Windows 7 (Home Premium, Professional, and Ultimate) with Boot Camp in Mac OS X Snow Leopard before the end of the year [CC].

    Hang on, it's January.

  • uhhh... (Score:5, Funny)

    by FatdogHaiku (978357) on Friday January 01, 2010 @08:20PM (#30617508)

    Maybe they're waiting for iSlate?

    iGuess...

  • Its Very Doable now (Score:5, Informative)

    by anethema (99553) on Friday January 01, 2010 @08:32PM (#30617606) Homepage
    Here is some info not provided in the rest of the 'I'm posting from Win7" posts here is some helpful information.

    First, the Snow Leopard DVD includes boot camp 3.0, which VASTLY improves the use of the touchpad under Windows XP or Vista. It also mostly works under Windows 7.

    If you don't have a Snow Leopard DVD, here is a link to the drivers on TPB:

    http://thepiratebay.org/torrent/5054638/Bootcamp_Driver_3.0_for_Windows_32bit__amp__64bit_%28from_Snow_Leopard

    After installing this updating the sound drivers and video drivers would be advisable since the ones that come in boot camp suck and/or cause crashes.

    http://www.nvidia.com/Download/index.aspx?lang=en-us for video drivers. Select windows-7 then 32 or 64 bit depending on which you've chosen.
    ac
    http://www.realtek.com.tw/downloads/downloadsView.aspx?Langid=1&PNid=14&PFid=24&Level=4&Conn=3&DownTypeID=3&GetDown=false

    After this it should be reasonably stable.
  • I've really had no problems on the latest model unibody 15" MBP. I've been running the Windows 7 x64 RTM since it was released. I think the best features added from the actual bootcamp installation are the keyboard/trackpad functions, HFS+ drivers, and backlit keyboard. Drivers aren't really an issue...
  • Wait, (Score:4, Interesting)

    by Movi (1005625) on Friday January 01, 2010 @08:49PM (#30617784)

    So, the version i am running from Snow Leopard, that says "compatible with Windows 7" right there on the setup screen is actually NOT compatible with windows 7.

    FTFA:

    You cannot run your Mac applications simultaneously

    No one notified me of this! Ive been running it like that since I installed it!

    You cannot safely resize the Mac or Windows partitions

    Got me again! Next time i'll try it, i'll make sure to do it as unsafely as i can.

    You cannot easily transfer files between the two partitions (without third-party support)

    I'll stop using the hfs driver in boot camp right away (once i learn to disable it. Damn apple making stuff just work).

    Seriously, anyone reading CNet for legitimate stories should have his head checked.

  • Everything works fine. I used a third party partition manager to set up/move the partitions around and then used the bootcamp drivers. Power savings could be better (2 hours under Win7 vs 6 hours in OS x) but aside from that nit it works just fine for me.

    I'm not entirely sure what the issue is.

  • by Ilgaz (86384) on Friday January 01, 2010 @10:36PM (#30618824) Homepage

    I have noticed 2 major issues with Boot Camp coming with the "snow leopard" DVD and I started to believe Apple doesn't want users to have good performance on Windows. Or, they don't have slightest clue about importance of these things.

    1) The NVidia GPU drivers coming with Snow Leopard DVD (and there are no updates) are _old_. One would think "well, they could prefer stability", no it is not the case either. The stuff offered at NVidia drivers page are WHQL certified by default too. 9400M is especially a GPU/Integrated GPU hybrid, it really needs up to date, latest driver software to function properly.

    2) Now, this is not a trivial thing to fix like heading to nvidia and download a driver. SATA on latest gen Mac Mini (and Intel based stuff) is not properly identified to Windows via MBR or "BIOS". There isn't much information there but in case of Intel SATA controller, it is documented and you can take a real big risk of MBR tweaking with some ready to use tools and identify SATA/AHCI situation to Windows, thanks to NCQ like features _only_ available to AHCI (at least under win), 2-3x performance hit may occur. NVidia chipset having Mac Minis who really needs whatever software performance they need (they run 2.5"). I did every documented, undocumented, dangerous trick on book to have 20 MB/sec pathetic speed. Same drive on same hardware hits 60-70MB/sec on OS X.

    As Nvidia won't give specs to a chipset nerd or end user, things would really change in case of Apple themselves contacting them. I really believe people who can do crazy things like putting a virtual BIOS on top of EFI etc would manage to change couple of bytes. I started to believe that it is Apple who wants their users,customers to have junk like performance on Windows. Perhaps with the recent Win 7 hype, they are afraid of their customers having good experience with Windows and start to question their brand?

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