Apple To Charge for Some iApps 557
randomErr writes "News.com has this story that according to sources familiar with the plans, Apple is expected to announce at the Macworld Expo in San Francisco Tuesday that consumers will have to pay for new versions of iDVD, iPhoto and iMovie. Previously, Apple had offered upgrades to its digital media, or 'i' applications, for free."
In other news (Score:5, Interesting)
Rip-off (Score:3, Interesting)
Re:Rip-off (Score:5, Insightful)
I don't remember anything in my purchase that said upgrades to all software would be free forever....
Re:Rip-off (Score:3, Insightful)
Re:Rip-off (Score:5, Insightful)
The fact that those iApps probably will ship with 10.3, if 10.3 is a pay-for upgrade?
Apple doesn't intentionally break software with new OS versions.
And if those iApps do break in 10.3, and do not ship as new versions in 10.3, perhaps your friends will choose not to upgrade to 10.3.
Or maybe 10.3 will be so amazing they they will want to pay for both 10.3, and the updated iApps. They do pay for software they find useful, right?
No one is forcing people to upgrade. More likely, you're a power user who never considered the idea that you don't have to be running the latest and greatest software of the given moment, and it's psychologically traumatizing to consider the possibility of not upgrading.
-pmb
Re:Rip-off (Score:3, Informative)
You, my friend, have never bought a copy of QuickTime. I bought QT5 and when I upgraded to 10.2, surprise! QT6 Lite was installed and my full version of QT5 was no more...
Re:Rip-off (Score:3, Informative)
Re:Rip-off (Score:5, Informative)
http://docs.info.apple.com/article.html?artnum=
Lemme know!
Re:Rip-off (Score:3, Insightful)
This is NOT news.
History of the iApps (Score:5, Informative)
The charging for iApps is not a new thing:
iMovie 2 cost $30.
iDVD 2 was $20 (s&h)
When OS X came out, you got iMovie 2 free with it as a reason to upgrade. iPhoto, when it came out, was also free, IF you had OS X. Then, somehow, it entered the general Mac consciousness that the iApps were always meant to be free. The truth was, they cost you whatever you paid to run OS X.
iTunes, iSync, & iCal will probably always be free. The others offer a lot more value. Now that so many people have upgraded to OS X, there is no reason for Apple to give it to them free again. I don't mind paying if that means quality upgrades. However, the whole point is that the iApps were always meant to make money, just in different ways. They will continue to serve that pupose and in different ways as time goes on.
Homer? (Score:5, Funny)
At the mall eating cookie samples.
First they had the "Switch" campaign ... (Score:5, Funny)
Re:OT: Reasons TO vote for Bush in 2004 (Score:3, Interesting)
Plus, people seem to forget the fact that the top 10% of taxpayers still pay an overwhelming majority of the taxes. Believe it or not, it is possible for the "rich" to get a bigger tax cut than the "poor," and still end up paying a larger percentage of the overall tax burden. That "the rich get richer" claim just doesn't hold water.
Besides, the other option (the rich subsidize the poor until everyone's equal) is outright socialism - and we know that doesn't work in the real world.
Pft, charging for software. As if that'll work. (Score:5, Funny)
*Paraphrase of the comments my Dad's brother made to him, about Microsoft, in 1985.
Re:Pft, charging for software. As if that'll work. (Score:5, Funny)
Fortunately for software vendors, people will actually duplicate and throw your shit for you, saving you from having to bear the total cost of discovering what shit will stick to what wall
To me, that will always be the glorious and perfect balance between charging for something that can be copied and not living in a Big Brothered police state where even your calculator has DRM.
So to Apple, I say, hats off and good luck with your shit!
Re:Pft, charging for software. As if that'll work. (Score:2)
'tis true.... (Score:5, Insightful)
this looks like it's true. as long as it's only upgrades you pay for, i don't see that it's that big of a deal. get a new machine and you get the new software for free anyway, that's pretty much how it is now.
maybe if they can make money off it they'll update iMovie and iPhoto, both need it badly.
So, I have been misled! (Score:5, Interesting)
iPhoto recently lost all 501 of my photos, and Apple (UK) wanted me to pay £35 to ask one question about how to get them back as my hardware (500Mhz G4 Tibook). I refused because I had no guarantee they could help me. I hope that with the paid version, support comes included.
Re:So, I have been misled! (Score:2)
Lost them? Dude, iPhoto doesn't hide your photos someplace sneaky. They're right there in your Pictures folder. They're organized a little funny, but they're in there.
Re:So, I have been misled! (Score:3, Funny)
"And then my computer went BEEP BEEP BEEP and my photos were gone, and they were really good photos. Then I had to make new photos and they werent as good because I was in a rush. It was kind of... a bummer."
Good afternoon, Sir/Madam/Other (Score:2)
I represent the ForeverWear Siding company. May I have a moment of your time? I promise, it won't hurt a bit.
KFG
iAMSHOCKED (Score:5, Insightful)
I'm not an avid Mac user, but I would rather pay for few small upgrades from Apple which would amount to $30 bucks, than to switch Office suite versions twice a year.
Re:iAMSHOCKED (Score:2, Insightful)
I assumed the price of the iApps was part of the cost of the machine itself and not free at all.
If they're charging for upgrades (read: bugfixes), then I'd call shenanigans on them.
It reminds me of the old joke about the bartender serving free beer. A patron, elated at the deal, sat drinking for a couple of hours, and eventually had to urinate badly. He finds the bathroom door locked, and the bartender tells him "the key'll cost ya 100 bucks"
Re:iAMSHOCKED (Score:2)
re: live free or pay (Score:2)
I'll never support annual upgrades because it establishes the precedent that upgrades will be issued regardless of necessity. e.g., need is washed away in favor of a guaranteed revenue stream.
Re:iAMSHOCKED (Score:4, Insightful)
Now of course, it's entirely Apples perogative to start charging for their stuff. Nonetheless, if it's true considering that this is the second time now (third if you count 10.2) that they have suddenly introduced charges for stuff that people assumed would be free (.Mac anybody?), Jobs had better watch out - he'll get a reputation as somebody who pisses all over loyal customers time and time again.
Oh, and I'm sure there'll be a lot of posts saying "It's only X dollars, for what you get that's a bargain". They said that with 10.2, with .Mac and so on. Of course, value is in the eye of the beholder, but it seems to me at least that people are paying more and more for the Apple brand. The iApps are nice, but not that nice.
Re:iAMSHOCKED (Score:3, Insightful)
New features that Apple got for free from the OSS community. New features that have been in use in OSS systems for years. It is incompetence on Apple's part that they weren't in the initial release of 10.0.
I don't care what other people think. If you're selling me a commercial product I expect it to be complete and finished. If it is not I would be willing to accept free updates until you complete and hope for a discount on the unfinished product. Apple lies and tells us their products are superior, when, in fact, they are not. But that's normal for any corporation, so it doesn't bother me. I just refuse to hand over my money to any business that expects it can run this way. Personally I prefer to give (sometimes thousands) to companies that contribute to the community for free and expect nothing for it. I support them because they are the reason I've been getting free updates for the last 5 years. My OS has supported every piece of hardware I have purchased even if the hardware manufacturer hasn't released any documentation to the community.
There are better alternatives. Yes, like OSS. I manage 300+ GB of data with a Linux based network that cost me a couple thousand dollars. It would cost me $10,000 to setup anything comparable with Apple hardware and I'd still be waiting to pay for the "features"/updates to make use of about half my content.
Don't get me wrong, I love OSX and recommend that above all else for corporate desktop use, but I'm not willing to be Apple's bitch while they try to figure out how to make money with OSS software. RedHat has been doing it for years and I hear no financial excuses from them why they should charge for the #1 Linux distro. RedHat is a commercial entity too, last time I checked, so what's Apple's excuse? Maybe they just don't play nicely enough with the community to get the developement support they need. Which is why their customers are paying for it. Hell, even Mandrake does that to some extent. Its not a bad thing, really, its just not right.
$50 for all three (Score:5, Informative)
In other news, Apple is rumored to make an announcement about 802.11g.
Re:$50 for all three (Score:4, Insightful)
I don't mind Apple charging for software that is worth it ; iTunes and iPhoto (maybe) are worth the money.
However, Apple has two problems:
1. Software for money is held to a higher standard than free software. iTunes is incredible: it's fast, has plenty of features, and works great. iPhoto on the other hand is slow, very slow, and extremely slow. Plus you can't combine photo albums, and it doesn't perform well when you have thousands of pictures. So if Apple is going to start charging for software it should perform to a higher standard. Unfortunately, when Apple dumped the for-free iTools for the $99/year
2. Bundling! It will be really annoying if Apple makes you buy iDVD, iMovie, and iPhoto together. Like
Somebody at Apple is playing a dangerous game where they believe that Apple purchasers have an inflexible view towards price. That is, Apple purchasers will pay anywhere from $0 to a premium price because it's from Apple. While it's true that Apple users will pay more for Apple products because they're generally of higher quality, Apple users aren't stupid when it comes to value propositions. Exhibit A is
What Apple needs to do is figure out what their goals are: is it to gain more short term revenue (charge for
Shareware model? (Score:5, Insightful)
Besides the consumer application of many of these iApps, I also know lots of folks (including myself) that are using them for scientific and business purposes and then upgrading to the more expensive Pro apps when needs outstrip the consumer products. So, by getting these application "free" when you purchase a new computer and then paying to get the latest versions combined with using them as a portal to the Pro stuff, it seems to be a pretty good business model. If the iApps don't cost too much, are helping me to be more productive and are well written, more power to them.
Re:Shareware model? (Score:2)
Note: I have no idea what version iDVD is at.
Licencing fees (Score:4, Insightful)
As far as iDVD goes, I could see them charging for upgrades, or if you want to use it with a non-OEM/External DVD-R drive. That would actually be an improvement over the current situation.
Re:Licencing fees (Score:2)
Wont work unless you have an internal (connected to the IDE bus) DVD-ROM drive, though.
Hardly surprising, but may backfire (Score:5, Interesting)
The only way I can see this working out is if Apple stops including the iApps on all their Macs or ships lesser-powered versions (like they do with Quicktime).
This is getting old (Score:2)
Re:This is getting old (Score:3, Informative)
1) Apple wouldn't have to worry about Microsoft because office wouldn't have been a big deal.
2) Many of the people who switched away from Apple wouldn't because of file format lock in.
3) Every magazine article when doing comparisons could compare the price of x86 box + windows + office to the price of the mac.
4) Write having been a major product for 20 years would be vastly better today and Apple could make a real case in terms of features they offer.
A Poor Decision? (Score:2)
damn (Score:2)
It's fair, yes, give new iApps for people who buy new PCs, make everyone else pay. But I hate fair, I like pleasant surprise. But, I'll probably just fall in love with Apple again after my anger wears off. Oh well, I'll still have my desktop PC when I decide to throw away this laptop.
Let me sum this up... (Score:3, Insightful)
Apple/Mac haters: ``See? I told you Apple sucks.''
Does that about cover it? On to the next "story."
Good news for non-Mac-head like me. (Score:4, Insightful)
Re:Good news for non-Mac-head like me. (Score:2)
about time! (Score:5, Insightful)
I wouldn't cry if I had to pay, say $15 for the next iTunes update either.
Settle Down (Score:2)
No, wrong. Again. (Score:2, Insightful)
Except no, they weren't. iMovie 2.0 was $49 and the upgrade to iDVD was $20. Like they plan on doing now, they were only free with a new machine.
So giving you those two along with iPhoto isn't a bad deal at all.
The REALLY sensible option though would be to include them in a price of a
Is this really a change? (Score:2, Informative)
Apple Bashing (Score:2, Interesting)
So they are taking 3 programs that people use bundling them together and charging at most $50 for them. Last I checked microsoft charges over $500 for office. A program group that has not seen any real improvement since 1995.
Yes free stuff is cool but if you want to get a improvement from the last edition they company has to make some money out of the deal. No one complains that red hat charges for the better versions of their system.
If you want a better version of the "i" apps then you are going to have to help apple produce better editions. Fifty dollars is not too much to be asking for a easy to use powerful app.
Re:Apple Bashing (Score:2, Troll)
If you think the iApps in any way, shape or form compare to Office XP then it's easy to tell you've never actually used Office to any great extent. Office is an insanely powerful (sometimes too powerful) set of 5 or 6 apps that covers the whole spectrum of productivity.
In contrast, a lot of the iApps could easily be confused for something that was found on SourceForge if it wasn't for the distinctive Apple style UI and operating system integration. iTunes is a good media player - but at the end of the day, it organises and plays music. Oh yeah, CD burning too. Brilliant. I'll be fascinated to see how RhythmBox progresses, it's based on similar ideas (quicktime -> gstreamer). iPhoto is neat, but in no way could it be described as "powerful", it lacks features that are present in even the most basic photo manipulation/thumbnailing apps on Windows for instance. iChat has its ass humbly kicked by RhymBox (what is it with *box?), the work of one guy over a period of about 2 years. If you're in Windows sometime and want to play with a fantastic chat client, get it. The UI is beautiful. [rhymbox.com]
If you want a better version of the "i" apps then you are going to have to help apple produce better editions. Fifty dollars is not too much to be asking for a easy to use powerful app.
That sounds too much like the sort of rhetoric Mandrake and its users have been coming out with lately for comfort. Companies shouldn't need their customers to feel charitable towards them - if Apple wanted to make money directly from the iApps then it should have charged from the get go.
Good. (Score:2)
What happened to .Mac? (Score:2)
Beyond that, I think this is Apple shooting themselves in the foot again. If you take way iDVD, iPhoto, and iMovie, you're just reducing the value proposition to choose Apple over a PC. And that equation is already stacked against Apple as it is.
.Mac is the best way to fund iApp development (Score:2)
It would be even better if the free iApps were bundled as part of Cocoa so that other Mac developers could use their objects. It would be neat if other Cocoa programs could use iPhoto's cool photo viewing widget. Or if other programs could use some of iMovie's functionality. If the apps are free, Apple might as well use them as a catalyst to help developers develop some more killer apps. And if developers use all of the iApp classes then they'll be tied to the Mac platform lest they have to reinvent the wheel if they went to Windows.
Is this to compete financially w/ M$? (Score:2, Interesting)
J
New form of freedom (Score:2)
They used the free iApps to get people to convert over to the Mac platform, becoming dependant on the tool and the platform, then not being able to switch back when the price goes up.
iTools went from free to $100/year... nice jump there.
at least their hardware isn't expensive. (Score:2, Funny)
They already charge for these apps. (Score:2, Insightful)
I don't see this as an issue at all. There will not be an uproar since Apple is already doing this today.
Port them to PC (Score:2)
Re:Port them to PC (Score:2)
DVD drives and software? (Score:2)
So, can't crack the player to use on other hardware. Can't get the player unless you buy the player. Can't get a better player unless you pay for upgrade?
Perhaps this doesn't apply, the whole hardware-based burning software thing was a bit confusing anyhow.
Re:DVD drives and software? (Score:2, Informative)
Re:DVD drives and software? (Score:5, Insightful)
No, if you bought the computer with the DVD-ROM, then it comes with iDVD for free.
The reason you can't crack the player to run on other hardware is that Apple wasn't concerned about protecting their player - rather they didn't want to have to deal with thousands of different models of DVD-ROMs requiring thousands of different drivers. With an Apple DVD-ROM, you know that it will work perfectly, no need for drivers or any sort of configuration.
-T
These programs are worth paying for... (Score:2)
They might as well try and make back the money they spend developing or acquiring all of this technology, and they can still keep the choice fruit like Final Cut Pro and iDVD mac-only to attract hardware buyers.
the issue at stake (Score:2, Interesting)
I know a lot of you get pissed when people claim, in this example, that Apple should not charge for this software. It is a perfectly valid argument to claim that Apple has every right to do this, it is their software.
The phone company has every right to charge you ten cents a minute for even local calls. How many of your are on dial-up to a local provider? Sure, they have the right to do that, but the customer expects a certain ammount of respect from the companies we support.
A level of trust is missing in the customer-company relationship that needs to be found again, or perhaps for the first time in many situations, companies, and peoples.
Foxtrot comic about the expo (Score:2, Funny)
http://images.ucomics.com/comics/ft/2003/ft030103
Their business plan (Score:2)
This is only the beginning. (Score:2, Funny)
RMN
~~~
"Sources say..." (Score:2)
Let's just wait until after the keynote on Tuesday, shall we?
Just another reason to go linux full time. (Score:2, Insightful)
Everyone else seems to agree with cnet (Score:3, Informative)
http://macnn.com
http://macminute.com
http://thinksecret.com
even google news has it top of their tech page
http://news.google.com/news/gntechnologyleftnav.h
Good grief (Score:2)
I'm reading all the whining from people saying they're gonna jump ship if this happens... bait and switch mumbo jumbo. Get over it. And first, get over yourselves.
These apps are higher quality than any shareware app you'll ever find that will try to accomplish the same task. These apps come with the purchase of any new Mac. If you don't use them, you're not forced to upgrade them like others would have you do. If you do use them, then you should appreciate what you have and shouldn't mind shelling out a few bucks to support the development of these apps. What??? How dare Apple be compensated for making their software better! It's not like the apps are going to mysteriously stop working once a newer version is available. Sheesh!
Y'know...I'm soooo close to buying a mac...but (Score:2, Interesting)
However, the path for macs increasingly seems to be paved with nickles and dimes. Add that to the existing price difference for an i386, and i'm slowly easing my wallet back into my pocket.
It's just becoming apparent that wintel for all its faults is much more economical and versatile (in a free way). And Linux as a desktop is getting closer and closer....
Sure, it may "just work". But so does a $35k BMW. I could probably afford a BMW but that's not what I'm driving. Apple has a great product, but this is an extremely poor economic time to be making ankle-biter fees and charges part of the deal.
Not a NEW policy (Score:5, Interesting)
iMovie 2 came with new hardware, was easily pirated, and was later released as part of the major ($99) OS upgrades so most likely many people probably never heard of this policy.
I got iMovie 2 when I bought my TiBook and it. It's an easy to use linear editing system. If I wanted better titling, snazzy effects, or non-linear abilities I'd be looking at something in the $1K range. This works fine for me and I haven't really had any desire for more features for my home videos.
If Apple comes out with a new version, my current version doesn't stop working. It very well may have difficulties if I were to buy a new Mac, but then I'd be given the new iMovie 3.0 with that purchase. So there isn't a strong pressure to pay for an upgrade based on stability and compatability problems. This is the most refreshing thing. If I find that the features Apple offers in the iMovie 3.0 version compelling then I may choose to buy an upgrade, but that's based on what I find important features.
My cell phone, PDA, and MP3 player meet my current needs, but they aren't compelling. However, if a Sprint compatible version of the Kyocera 7135 SmartPhone is released in the US, I'd jump on the chance to upgrade for the features that it offers. Similarly iCal, iSync, iTunes, and the AddressBook aren't compelling apps but if they offered integration with a Kyocera 7135 feature set I'd easily pay a good chunk of change for the upgrades needed (they may work now, I have to get my 7135 to find out though).
As another example, I won't use iPhoto at all. I find its abilities aren't what I'm looking for in a digitial photo album. Even though it's free, I prefer my own system of folders in the file system. If Apple adds enough features to iPhoto that I changed my mind about using it, I think I'd also be okay with tossing in some bucks for the upgrade.
I dont trust News.com (Score:4, Insightful)
I've heard they were putting a lot of work into properly Cocoaizing iPhoto for the next release, a serious upgrade. You can tell with the 10.2.3 update that it, along with iTunes, aren't really properly Cocoaized because the stoplight buttons don't look right anymore.
All-righty then... (Score:5, Insightful)
If the rumors are true, Apple wants to charge users $50.00 to update three pieces of software: iPhoto, iDVD, and iMovie. The rumor article even doesn't coroborate if Apple is even considering of doing something similar with it's other applications, just speculating that if the rumor is true it might be the first move toward that.
Now, let's assume the first rumor is true. That the three apps named - iPhoto, iMovie, and iDVD - are going to charge for updates. It goes on to state that iPhoto manages your digital photos, where iMovie and iDVD allow you to edit digital videos and burn them to DVD. Now, having worked the retail sector before, this seems like a very good price for this. However, just to be certain, lets look at the prices of a few competitors...
After searching around on CompUSA's website, this is what I found. First, Pinnacle Studio version 8. After checking what software I could find that would actually burn MOVIES onto DVD, I ran across this particular title. This does the job (I'm speculating here, give or take a few features) of iMovie and iDVD. As for Photos, lets just go with Ulead PhotoExplorer Pro 7.0, again with the same disclaimer: based on speculation from knowing the basics of what the applications do, give or take some features.
Now let's compare the prices.
the Mac iBundle
iMovie, iPhoto, iDVD: $50.00
TOTAL: $50.00 + applicable tax
Ulead + Pinnacle Studio
Pinnacle: $99.99
Ulead: $24.99
TOTAL: $124.98 + applicable tax
All in all paying $50.00 for all three apps would not be a horrible fate by any means. Slightly annoying in that it used to be free, but not ripping anyone off either.
Just a few thoughts on shareware (a little OT) (Score:5, Insightful)
Shareware authors tend to call it something like "upgrade protection". Basically when you register the software, you get any updates for some period of time (usually a year) afterwards. If you want to upgrade again after that, you must purchase the upgrade protection fee.
I know all the arguments why they do it, how they need the money, etc.
But it makes me mad, and I refuse to play that game.
I registered a certain shareware internet application a couple years ago that had always been "free upgrades" ever since version 1.0 (it was version 3.x when I purchased it). The version AFTER I got mine, the author decided to start this upgrade protection nonsense. No continuing free versions for previous customers, we all get to play the protection racket game.
Needless to say, I immediately went looking for a keygen and made myself a valid key for the new versions.
I know everyone on their moral highground will defend the author and probably give me a hard time. So be it, I can accept that.
Had I known about this policy before making my purchase, I would've chosen another product to spend my money on. My _trust_ was violated, regardless of the legality of his actions.
In the marketing world, perception is everything - Apple's decision may make sense on budgetary, ethical, and legal footings, but if it annoys people as much as this shareware author's new policy annoyed me, Apple will get some negative PR.
Not strong, not particularly mean and nasty PR, but a lot of "Apple just isn't quite as good a company as I thought it was". And that cooling of the warm and fuzzy feelings on which Apple so bases their marketing and promotional campaigns, could be very dangerous indeed.
N.
This is why I use more and more free software (Score:4, Interesting)
I bought Zend Studio for a few hundred bucks, it was a good deal, really nice software. Only it doesn't work for me now, it won't run under a glibc2.3 system. Most likely I'll have to buy an upgrade(the new 2.6 version they're pushing) to see it work under my new system.
Cold Fusion 5.0 at work has DB driver problems. Their solution for a fix? Upgrade to MX(which has its own problems under Linux).
So it's back xemacs for an IDE for me and at work it's PHP in our future. No forced upgrades. 5 years from now emacs will still be there for me, most likely PHP will be as well.
You can't say the same thing for any software you buy from a company. 8 years back I bought Symantec's Cafe for Java and used emacs on the side. Cafe is dead, even Visual Cafe is pretty much dead, but emacs lives on.
I used to buy a lot of software. But the more I buy the more I find out that in the long term, it just isn't worth it.
Re:iFIRSTPOST (Score:3, Funny)
Re:That will spell the end (Score:5, Insightful)
Re:That will spell the end (Score:2)
This trend will continue, only now it's going to cost even more. They used to provide point upgrades free, now they charge for EVERYTHING. There is ZERO insentive to stick with them.
The hardware becomes useless? (Score:4, Insightful)
What, your machine just turns into a lump of inert plastic? What ever happened to buying a piece of technology that does what you want and using it until what you want something better?
There are millions of Mac users with ancient machines running exactly the same software they set them up with years ago. The machine worked fine for them then, and works the same way now.
There's no one holding a gun to your head forcing you to "upgrade".
More likely, what's happening is that you want to upgrade, because the new software or hardware does something your old system doesn't. Guess what, time to pay for something new. It's not a $1500 lifetime membership to everything Apple will ever invent.
IMHO, software companies created this brain damaged thought process when they beat it into people's heads that it was a license instead of a purchase. Maybe if they started making it clear that we're buying a physical product, people wouldn't feel such entitlement to every future iteration. Honda doesn't send you the latest model every year for any less than the full price, why should Apple?
-pmb
Re:That will spell the end (Score:2)
Ohhh boy are you gonna hear about this. You obviously have not used Wintel for long at all if this is your experience. One only has to look at operating system updates to get the "bait-and-switch" bit from Microsoft. How about product updates that require you to purchase new versions of other software because of broken compatibility with updates? How about etc...etc...etc....
Come on, think about this. Do you honestly expect any publicly traded company to provide free services and products forever? They have people on the payroll, they have infrastructure. All of that is not free as in beer.
Re:That will spell the end (Score:2)
You can question MS's business ethics, you can question product quality but you can't question their upgrade path.
Re:That will spell the end (Score:2)
Re:That will spell the end (Score:2, Insightful)
Nothing says 'this market is saturated' better than when a company turns to nickel and diming its existing customer base.
Apparently the switch campaign isn't convincing all the 'sheep' like me to plunk down 2Gs in droves.
"And then my computer went beep beep beep and lost my movie and it was a really good movie and the upgrade cost me 50 bucks. It was kind of... a bummer"
Bait and switch is nonsense (Score:4, Interesting)
That makes no sense. The iApps aren't meant to be long-term user apps anyways. They are:
1) proof-of-concept Cocoa applications.
2) stopgaps for the "why should I use the new OS which has no Apps, why should I write Apps for the OS with no users" conundrum.
3) setting the bar for 3rd party App quality
If you want free updates forever, then I suggest you look into supporting the GNU projects on OS-X. Things like GTKAqua will bring the gamut of GTK apps from the FreeBSD ports collection to OS-X. This includes GIMP, and forthcoming GIMP-Film.
"Waaaaah... If I have to pay, I might as well pay Microsoft" will get you diddly squat. Oh, and the best portables: TiBooks don't run Windows. They run OS-X (Darwin). You just don't know what your options are.
Re:That will spell the end (Score:2)
Wrong, they get EOL'd with every major upgrade to OSX.
As for bait and switch they baited me with a free product, then switched and started charging for that product. To me thats a bait and switch and I personally dont give a flying fuck what your definition of it is.
Re:That will spell the end (Score:5, Insightful)
Oh, and the next version is for a fee.
How is this any sort of bait and switch? It's a lot like shareware software that gives you a trial version with no expiration, but if you pay you can unlock the full features... which is what Apple has been doing with Quicktime vs. Quicktime Pro for years.
And as for Microsoft not ever pulling this, what about Word 95, Word 96, Word 97, Word 98, Word 99, Word ME, Word 2000, Word 2001, Word XP, etc. You complain about things getting EOL'd with every major upgrade, but you forget the primary Apple business model - they make money on hardware, not software. Most users get a Mac and stick with the operating system on it and never upgrade. When they buy a new machine, that's when they upgrade to a new OS. Very few Mac people ever upgrade their OS independantly of the hardware.
Additionally, the incremental upgrades of Mac OS are free - they only charge when it's a major change.
For instance, 7.0 to 7.1 was free. 7.5 to 7.6 was free. 8.0 to 8.1 was free. 8.5 to 8.6 was free. 9.0 to 9.1 to 9.2 was free. X to X.1 was free. Windows has done the same thing - patches and service packs are (usually) free, but major changes - 95 to 98 to ME to XP cost money.
Stop bitching 'cause you don't understand the business and think you should be given everything.
-T
Re:That will spell the end (Score:2)
It's nothing like shareware. With shareware, the deal is perfectly clear before you start - the app is for trial purposes only, it will lock up or be restricted, you are expected to pay for it if you find it useful. Often with shareware in fact updates are/were thrown in for free or a much reduced price.
This is something that was given away for free, and no mention was ever made that future updates may cost money. Of course the possibility was always there, but as they were only available with Macs, I'd guess most people assumed the cost was a part of the hardware.
That's why it's called "bait and switch" - they switched their business model/ethics half way through.
And as for Microsoft not ever pulling this, what about Word 95, Word 96, Word 97, Word 98, Word 99, Word ME, Word 2000, Word 2001, Word XP, etc.
Again, not a useful comparison - Word has always been sold on the basis that there will be updates which you are free to ignore if you want. You don't have to use Office XP with Windows XP (although this might change) for instance. Microsofts model has been clear from day 1.
You complain about things getting EOL'd with every major upgrade, but you forget the primary Apple business model - they make money on hardware, not software. Most users get a Mac and stick with the operating system on it and never upgrade.
Apples business model is no excuse - if it pisses off the customers, who cares how Apple make money? Not the customers, that's for sure. I'd question the validity of the "never upgrade" statement, 10.0 and 10.1 in particular had severe performance problems and many/most/nearly all users have upgraded as far as I can see.
Additionally, the incremental upgrades of Mac OS are free - they only charge when it's a major change.
That depends on whether you consider 10.2 to be major enough to warrant $120. Considering that it was largely a collection of bugfixes/optimizations/slight UI polish, you could probably get the same with several MS service packs on 2K or NT (and of course, for free with linux).
Stop bitching 'cause you don't understand the business and think you should be given everything.
Understanding business has nothing to do with it - this guy was clearly a pretty loyal Apple user, who paid for .Mac yet he feels he's been screwed. He shouldn't have to "understand" Apples position: they are a company, they shouldn't need or deserve sympathy.
Re:That will spell the end (Score:2)
Re:That will spell the end (Score:2)
Re:Well, duh. (Score:5, Informative)
Re:Well, duh. (Score:3, Informative)
Advance your clock to the year 2020 or so, launch QT Player, click the cancel button, reset the clock, and it won't bother you again for 17 years. But yeah, it is obnoxious and silly.
Re:Well, duh. (Score:5, Informative)
You seam to be forgetting that Quicktime Pro has hundreds of features that Media Player doesn't. QTPro isn't just a player. It arranges/edits/layers various forms of time-based media, and allows encoding and preparing of media clips in about 20-30 different audio and video formats for a variety of applications, such as streaming applications or DVD authoring. It has support for sprites, links, vector based animation for building interactive multimedia projects. Can your Media Player do this?
Re:Money for Quality Apps (Score:2)
Charging for iApps will spell the death of the iApps and any insentive to buy a mac.
Re:Money for Quality Apps (Score:3, Interesting)
Don't know about you, but the iApps were not even on my pro/con list when I switched to the Mac platform.
For me, the underlying OS had more to do with that then some applications. With the exception of iTunes which I use religously.
Re:Money for Quality Apps (Score:2)
Besides the entire appeal to the iApps is that they are dumbed down. Making them more complex defeats their entire purpose.
Adobe? Heh (Score:2)
Yeah, Apple is sooooo afraid to piss off Adobe.
-T
Wanna be switcher here... (Score:4, Insightful)
Ive tried several of the iApps and think they are pretty nice applications and I used to think a good reason for switching was the *FREE*
My big problem with Apple is they dont really seem to care about getting new customers as much as they just want to take advantage of the existing loyal customers. These people arent going to hang around forever. With the charging 129 for an upgrade that finally brought performance to the level originally promised, taking away the formerly free
Re:Wanna be switcher here... (Score:2, Funny)
5 years later:
With the charging of 275 for a friggin' skins-only upgrade that cuts out user-created skins, taking away the formerly free .mac, charging for iApps, requiring annual usage fees, betraying us on DRM, requring us to go through an apple portal to use the internet, permitting only one-button mouse use, some of us may someday see the light. Finally. This time I _mean_ it!
Re:good news for LinuxPPC? (Score:2)
Re:Why is this news? (Score:2)
A company has to charge for its goods and services-- but if it raises its prices continually, in the face of competition, it will eventually lose sales, and make less of a profit.
Re:Why the apple bashing? (Score:3, Insightful)
And, regardless of what people want to believe or not on Apple being different, they have been time and time again. They've expiremented with various designs of computers and computing devices (both iMac designs, the cube, the iBook, the All-in-One systems dating back to the origional macs and going through the performa and powerPC's and the precursor to the origional iMacs, using PowerPC chips at a time when everyone was going with intel or other x86 designs, the Apple Newton which helped pave the way for modern PDA's, etc...). I've watched through the years as features Apple introduced seeped it's way into the PC world.
They are different in the way that they've done most things. However they are still a company that has employees and bills that need to be paid. You can't forget this.
Do people think that Apple is different? Yes. Is that the only thing that makes them different? No. Does being different always benefit them? Of course not. However, them charging for updates hardly makes them the same as every other company out there.