Apple Re-Reverses G4 Order Cancellations 156
uncleFester writes "ZDNN appears to be reporting that Apple appears to be reversing its decision to reinstate all cancelled G4 orders, except for "a few orders" (probably machines in the production pipeline). From this latest switch, anyone wanting a G4 is going to have a hard time even knowing if they have one on order, let alone physically receiving the box."
Re:what a debacle (Score:1)
This wouldnt happen if there was still competetion (Score:1)
If a Mac clone vendor was still around, as soon as Apple announced this nonsense they would have offered comparable machines at the original price to anyone who had ordered a G4, and Apple would have no choice but to behave sensably. Instead, they're back to their old "Screw the customer!" selves...a pattern they started to set back with the ][ GS.
Maybe only VARs will get canceled (Score:1)
It seems that Apple is going to honor those orders placed at their store (The Apple Store) but will not honor the thousands of other orders placed at other stores (Mac Club, Mac Mall, etc.)
Re:Sounds like Steve Jobless living up to his imag (Score:1)
Seems to me like someone just got done watching Pirates of Silicon Valley or something.
Out of curiosity heroine, have you worked at Apple or NeXT or Pixar yourself?
I think a moderator could make a correction (say, -4)?
- Darchmare
- Axis Mutatis, http://www.axismutatis.net
Apple: Trust No One (Score:1)
Motorola is having so much trouble because they are concentrating their efforts elsewhere. This apple thing has kind of blown up in their face. After all, a year or so ago when they were having their IBM difficulties Apple didn't look too promising (or too productive). Right now Motorola is farming out G4 production/testing to AMD whom they helped on a 'lil chip earlier.
Apple just wants to push ahead, unfortunately the petal is to the metal. All machines have a maximum attainable speed (right?). Even corporate ones. But that said, the G4 was released before anyone thought it would be. (Even I thought it would be MacWorld SF in Jan.).
Re:Help Wanted (Score:1)
Now if Apple had Microsoft's marketing muscle, we'd probably have near saturation of Macintosh systems throughout the world, with Steve Jobs talking about using the Apple's user interface expertese to design car dashboards. (You see, that icon on the left is the fuel level...)
Ah well, it's a miracle that Apple has any market presence, given the crappy state of affairs in Apple's non-technical middle management. If it weren't for the Macintosh faithful, I suspect we'd be saying "Apple who? Didn't they make some home brew kit in the 70's?"
Re:Actually. . . (Score:1)
So much for the 'fiasco' tanks Apple's stock theory. Try again. You loose, coward.
Apple was forced to announce the G4s (Score:1)
Apple obviously knew that the initial G4 chip supplies from Motorola would be extremely limited, as is the case with most new processors. Regardless of these Motorola delays, Apple worked hard to finalize the design of the G4 machines in time, in order to keep the schedule of their R&D functions. The fact that the hardware designs were ready was misinterpreted by the media to mean that an announcement was immiment.
Come Seybold, Apple faced a difficult choice: Ignore this pressure to announce and fail to materialize the G4 everyone and their dog was expecting (most probably leading to a VERY bad reaction at NASDAQ), or introduce the new machines while being fully aware that there wouldn't be enough of them made anytime soon.
Apple chose the latter path, betting that the G4 introduction and a later notice of anticipated delivery problems (and lousy Q4 results) would hurt the company less than just introducing the G4 later. This is pretty understandable to me, because the sales of the G3 naturally slowed down under the G4 anticipation. I think the basic choices Apple made after the leaks have been sound, but the implementation of them, public relations wise, have proved that Apple still has serious internal communications issues to work out.
Re:Apple: Trust No One (Score:1)
True. But what is completely jacked about Apple is that they in lieu of the higher speed machine, they are shipping lower speed ones, and leaving the price the same. So, if you ordered a G4-500, if they ship it to you, it'll be a 450, and they aren't going to refund the difference in price to you.
Now, if you ordered a 450 and haven't recieved it yet, your order will be cancelled, you 'll get a refund if you've already paid, and you'll have to re-order. But, when you re-order, in order to recieve a G4-450, you'll have to pay the extra $300 that the G4-500 would have cost you before. The G4-400 is going for what the G4-450 was selling for when you first ordered.
Simply that Apple doesn't have enough chips is an understandable and forgiveable predicament. Things happen. It's poor planning on their part, but all new products have a ramp-up period. Apple has a very small inventory. That's good when you're in production. But, it means you have to really plan, though, and they kind of blew it.
The Beef is: Apple is doing their own loyal fans right up the poop-chute. It's like the late 80's all over again. Steve Jobs is back in town! Yeah!
Re:ZDNet IS ON CRACK! Slashdot is an enabler. (Score:1)
And you did, Congradulate yourself.
Slashdot makes no claim of authenticity to the stories IT LINKS TO. All Slashdot does, is grant us a forum to air our opinions on subject matter that matters to us. If you want to start an online newspaper, go ahead. Slashdot might link to one of YOUR RESPONSIBLY RESEARCHED STORIES.
Simply because you read it here doesn't imply truth. Not everything published is true. Slashdot doesn't publish any of it. You're angry at the wrong people.
Re:Oh boy. (Score:1)
Used car dealers are notorious for it. It IS illegal here, but Mac-users seem to enjoy being bent over by a company that has screwed them over many, many times in the past.
Re:malda you dickhead (Score:1)
That really makes a lot of sense. Where are your grounds on that statement? Please, at least back something up before you post it.
Re:Is apple NUTS? (Score:1)
Re:Hard to imagine... (Score:1)
Then the delays started. Right now, it's reaching a point of telling people "If you want a new Mac, you'll probably have to wait until sometime in January or February, and we don't have any more of the G3s in stock. But we can give you a new PC now, if you'd like." It's not all that easy to explain the apparent reasons in terms that these people will understand... "Well, Apple's having some delays. Part of it is because Motorola, who supplies some important parts to them, isn't coming through as expected... yes, they do other things than the phones..." (and on, and on, and on... discussing, trying to explain, trying not to get sucked into a lecture on the structure of the global economy, which can happen with some of these people...). It's easier to say "Something went wrong at Apple so we won't have anything for you for a while."
We have a lot of devoted Mac users here now discovering that their mouse has one button too many. And that's another headache entirely.
"I can't find my apple menu!" "Do you have a button that says "start" in the lower left of your screen?"
Calm yourself (Score:4)
http://www.macnn.com
http://www.macopinion.com
http://www.macweek.com
http://www.maccentral.com
http://www.macosrumors.com
You'll notice that none of them seem to have any sort of agreement on what the hell is going on. Remember people, it's not wise to base your judgements on something coming from ZDNet - their style of reporting was most likely to rely on one or maybe two of the above sites and cite them as 'anonymous sources'.
The fact is, nobody really knows what the hell is going on. Everything seems to point to the fact that everyone is getting their G4s at the original price except for some people who ordered early via resellers.
Now, if Apple really is going back and forth on this, well, I don't know what to say - they may have started dipping into the 'special' Kool Aid. On the other hand, this could simply be a case of one side of Apple not knowing what the hell the other side is doing (does anyone know if they use Outlook/Exchange over there?). Admittedly Apple has an odd enough history to make something like this halfway plausible, but remember who you are checking on for facts before you go apeshit...
- Darchmare
- Axis Mutatis, http://www.axismutatis.net
Re:This wouldnt happen if there was still competet (Score:1)
(and yes, I do own a PowerComputing machine)
- Darchmare
- Axis Mutatis, http://www.axismutatis.net
This is WRONG, or at least misleading. (Score:1)
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Just-in-time manufacturing and Apple's hype (Score:1)
It's the only way a hardware company can survive anymore.
Hardware is expensive; it's just not practical to stockpile inventories and then release, because if you don't sell your product, you'll be spending lots of money on warehouse space for an inventory that you may or may not sell all of, with tons of operating capital tied up in that equipment. If you can't make the release date, most of your customers will wait the extra few weeks for you to ship before ordering a new product, especially if they've been waiting months already for this product to be released.
Also, look at what happens when there are flaws discovered after production has commenced. The G4 flaw has a very simple fix in the short term, just lower the clock speed. It could've been more serious, like the Intel 820 chipset problem -- There are thousands of motherboards that will probably need to be destroyed because they stockpiled before release. While both Moto and Intel can be seen at fault for insufficient testing, the basic fact remains that while you can almost always patch software, hardware bugs are very difficult (and hence expensive) to work around. Regardless of whether or not any of the public knew these problems ever existed, they would still cost hundreds of thousands of dollars to fix; By hyping it before your production is ramped up, you have an estimate of demand for your product and have still prevented your target consumers from purchasing the an inferior (but already released) product; so, you will not waste money on warehousing the product, and will not have any more defective parts to replace than you will actually sell on the release date.
I will agree though that Apple has a bad habit of hyping products very early without sufficient production, especially recently (iBook, AirPort, etc). The G4 is a product that needs the hype though, and here's why:
In order for Apple to remain healthy, they need the high margins of their powerful computers to keep profits up (they can NOT live on iMacs alone, there just isn't enough profit to feed R&D). Hyping the G4 early keeps people from buying lower priced G3 based systems, bringing up the most fundamental point with Apple's marketing: In their "workstation-class" machines (read: non-iMac/iBook), they are only in direct competition with themselves. The people being targeted with the G4 were 90% of the time going to buy a Mac anyhow. They have prevented a number of G3 orders from happening with the promise of the G4 -- and therefore will increase their average profit when all of the G4's are finally shipped. To have NOT hyped the G4 would have been just as poor a marketing decision.
All of this, of course, is offtopic. The issue here is not should they have hyped the G4 without sufficient units produced, it is should they have cancelled all existing orders and cut performance ratings without cutting prices, and then waffle on the issue until nobody had any idea what was going on.
Re:what about Motorola (Score:3)
But Apple is solely to blame for 2 actions, which will anger customers far more than not having the 500Mhz processor.
1) Cancelling pre-orders
2) Downgrading processors without reducing the prices
The rationale for #1 is directly connected to #2. In order to protect their profit margin, pre-orders must be cancelled in order to make people order into the 3 price tiers.
The pathetic excuse of DRAM prices is ridiculous. Apple carries a 30-35% margin on their G4 line [26& overall, but G4 is higher margin than iMac]. That means ~$750 profit on a $2500 system. They can afford to eat the DRAM price rise. The quarterly profit will be severely hampered, but they wouldn't expose themselves to lawsuits and bad PR.
It sounds like the financial guys are in charge, while customer service is at the bottom of the pile. Think Different. The stock price is more important than your customers.
Re:How does this deserve an "insightful" rating? (Score:1)
A reply (Score:1)
If only I could talk them into a Powerbook and external monitor....
Again? (Score:1)
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Apple Press Release, ZD article was wrong (Score:2)
Apple has issued a press release [apple.com] this morning stating in part "Apple® today announced it will honor all orders for its Power Macintosh® G4 computers placed before Wednesday, October 13, at the originally quoted prices, including those placed with the Company's resellers which were accompanied by a purchase order, or a cash or credit card deposit."
This is crazy (Score:2)
Apple is dead...Not (Score:1)
You may not like the Mac, but it is here and it will stay for some time...
How long will it take them to realize (Score:1)
I'm under the impression that they really need the G4 to succeed, but between the bug itself, and their lousy handling of it, that seems unlikely.
Re:Calm yourself (Score:1)
Mind Blowing (Score:1)
Re:What is this in reference to? (Score:1)
Those were 3 posts from ONE article. There were more in that article itself, I didn't even have to look hard. The scoring of posts is NOT about pro/anti Linux with the intellegent moderators, it's about what's written well and what contributes to the discussion at hand.
You though, seem to do little to contribute to the discussion at hand, and even in the face of information that proves you wrong, you continue to act like a troll, not listening, babbling on your tired point again and again. I only respond to you because I am in favor of moderation, I support how it works around here. Peer review is what makes Free Software work, and it works to moderate this place. What you need to do is grow up yourself, and remember that the world isn't against you, and that the only person you're impressing with your anti-moderation and groundless anti-linux babble is yourself. Find me some GOOD points that disprove GNU Software and I'll be glad to give you a dozen reasons in counterpoint to every one you give.
Re:What is this in reference to? (Score:1)
Once again you have stooped to insults when I am
speaking about my actual experiences on
that great state of "Theory." (You know,
everything works in Theory.)
The fact of the matter is slashdot has a majority
of pro-Linux, pro-OSS, anti-MS, and especially
anti-anti-Linux people. Now, I've taken
statistics, so I do believe it is not my
imagination (nor implausible) when I say that most
things that are anti-Linux or anti-OSS get thrown
down to the bottom. The few times I have seen this
trend bucked is when the post in question is
lengthy, or by a person with high karma, or when
they go out of their way to be "nice" to the
Linux camp. (Or when some anti-Linux folks happen
upon it first.)
But if an anti-Linux or anti-OSS person takes the
same tone as many of the posts I've seen that are
pro-Linux (anti-MS, anti-Apple, etc.), then that
post is immediately sent to hell.
"You though, seem to do little to contribute to
the discussion at hand,"
In other words, you usually disagree with me, so
my opinion should be silenced.
"and even in the face of information that proves
you wrong, you continue to act like a troll,"
What information proves me wrong? I never would
seriously claim that EVERY POST that goes against
Linux is moderated down. But I have seen plenty
that are on target, but anti-Linux, marked down.
"not listening, babbling on your tired point again and again."
So in other words, I should just listen to YOU,
swallow anything YOU say, never disagree.
Otherwise, I'm a troll, or "an idiot," because
I don't agree?
Do you ever realize when you're being absurd?
"What you need to do is grow up yourself,"
Hmmm, I believe that's insult #3 for this thread.
"and remember that the world isn't against you,"
Actually, I was just talking about moderation on
slashdot. How this escalated to the world is
beyond me...
"and that the only person you're impressing with
your anti-moderation and groundless anti-linux
babble is yourself."
Well at least you're impressing people for the
both of us then, eh?
"Find me some GOOD points that disprove GNU
Software and I'll be glad to give you a dozen
reasons in counterpoint to every one you give."
When did I say I was against GNU software?
Oh, I see, you're assuming that because I'm sick
of hearing about Linux or OSS that I disapprove
of GNU software... Gee, I never would have thought
you were one to jump to conclusions.
Hardy har har.
-WW
what a debacle (Score:2)
But seriously, the original G4-cancellation announcement was wrong (in the immoral sense). Telling your paying customers the product they ordered simply won't be available but they can have a lesser product for its original price is tantamount to a slap in the face. I imagine the flak they caught over that caused them to make the change they did, which was the Right thing to do. Now this? This like slapping your customers in the face, apologizing and promising to make amends, then slapping them again.
I hate Marketing departments...
MoNsTeR
Re:Don't like it? Leave. (Score:1)
(Actually, it's just andover.net's. You see, they
bought the site from Rob.)
My browser loads the banner ad just as well as
your's. I think (since I'm helping pay for this
site just as much as you), well, I think I'll just
keep coming back.
"If you don't like the way he runs it, get the fuck out. Nobody's forcing you to type "slashdot.org" in the URL box."
Actually, in my browser we have what's known as
a BOOKMARK. You see, you don't actually have to
keep typing the URL.
I know, it's a huge leap in graphical user interface designs...
bzzt.
-WW
there goes a huge customer base (Score:1)
I remember Apple's promise to commitment which made many iMacs never make it to shelves. They tested the computers BEFORE they went out to market. It seems now they're loosing their quality dedication, this is the sort of problem that should have easily been noticed during all those quake3-photoshop tests.
Re:What is this in reference to? (Score:1)
Seriously though, the moderation around here isn't all THAT bad. While it's true that a post that just says 'MS sucks, haha' is less likely to be moderated down then a 'Linux sucks, haha' post, the general idea of moderation DOES work. I've seen the silly 'MS sucks, haha' comments get moderated down for redundancy. Heck, we should be both be taking Karmic penalty for wandering this far offtopic =)
My point is that the moderation around here doesn't suck as bad as you say. I like to think I'm fairly level headed, and as an active moderator, I don't like to see the moderation slandered. The local bias does weigh down on the people fighting the general consensus around here, but at the same time, quality posting still ends up being seen at Score:2.
I'll agree though, that the blatant anti-MSness around here is getting to me. I hardly think MS's code is worth the CD's it's burned on, but in the end, I don't want to see endless 'MS sux my A$$' posts. There just aren't enough moderator points for all the redundancy, and the moderation guidelines say to score up more then you score down.
And as far as me being the One True Right, not even my ego can swallow that whole. And I did assume much. I think we'll both survive though.
Apple != SmartPR(tm) (Score:1)
Watch the stock (Score:2)
-B
Re:what a debacle (Score:2)
http://www.theregister.co.uk/991016-000002.html
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The wrong Steve is definitely in charge (Score:2)
Bring back the Woz!
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Perot skit (Score:1)
Oh boy. (Score:1)
Fortunately, I live in the UK, where there are laws against this sort of thing. Apple legally has to send me the stuff I ordered, and at the price I ordered it for. So all smiles here. : )
Re:Apple announcement ? (Score:1)
From now on the rule is: Press releases are good sources of REAL news, and we trust all companies not to spin us like tops.
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it's you, but you're not alone (Score:1)
But the sub-text of what you wrote is valid: no reason to act like a bunch chickens with our heads cut off.
Interesting point... (Score:1)
I can't help but wonder how many more people are in the same boat as you, and even more die-hard MAC users that also refuse to reorder the system yet again. I can't help but think this is going to do irreperable damage to their ESTABLISHED customer base, as well as the NEW users they had attracted. Oh well, just my thoughts.
Re:Watch the stock (Score:2)
Have you looked at Apple's stock recently? It's been outpacing just about everything on the market. It's been up 10% since the first announcement of G4 cancellations. Apple has been reporting extremely strong sales of iMacs and iBooks. The reason for the G4 problems is they can't build them fast enbough because demand is so high. Other companies would love to have such problems.
Don't Think So (Score:2)
Well actually this doesn't really seem to be the case at least around here. My sister's 400 ordered from the Apple Store is apparently on it's way. And the local Mac store has quite a few 400's on the way. (Which means two in the office on Wednesday!)
Plus after a conversation with the owner of said store, this is not really hurting buisness as much as helping it. People are putting their money down sooner than later because the situation creates an I-gotta-get-mine-now feeling. Anyway...
excusing the flim flam (Score:1)
I share your feelings, of course, in the sense that I'd be annoyed if I ordered one and it got cancelled (especially if I knew the price was going up and was patting myself on the back at having got in under the wire :), but I also keep a level head about stuff like this by remembering that it's a two-way street. I like to be able to cancel orders too, so why can't Apple?
I attribute attitudes like yours (I'm not singling you out) to this weird thing people do on the subject of money: for example, when buying something used from a friend, people always expect a good deal on price because it's "for a friend". Why don't people ever want to throw in extra money because it's "for a friend"?
The law, by the way, recognizes something similar to what Apple did in the legal definition of a contract. A contract is not binding just because two people sign and agree to do something. One of them has to "rely" on it and actually do something to indicate that that they relied on it. Now, there are also laws about "false advertizing" and as a result Apple probably has a disclaimer that says that they can cancel, so contract law doesn't enter into it, but it's still interesting (and very much on topic ;) to see that it's nothing new.
As to your hating Marketing Departments, it was probably Finance that said "hey, this is going to cost us too much." Marketing was undoubtedly saying, "this is going to hurt us a lot in PR." Doesn't that kill you: Marketing was on your side!
ZDNet Balls up things again. (Score:1)
Bravo (Score:1)
I am no Mac user - my experience with apples ended with the IIe in high school. However, Apples have nearly always provided a performance edge for graphics and sound production environments. Their attention to quality hardware (not so much the OS) is appreciated.
I would rather see a company apologize for its mistake and take a blow to PR than to release a product which they knew required a fix (ex. every release of Windows or NT to date.)
Now look at that mess you've made (Score:1)
Rule 1: never buy software that says version 1.0 on it.
I would also like to add that the same rule holds forth for new hardware. The G4 is a wholly new platform. It stands to reason that Apple would have some problems with ramp-up. Sounds like someone skipped a few milestones on the project chart, like the step that says "does it work according to the specifications?" and "can we make enough?" That just shows a lack of planning that is not an emergency on my part.
Also, most Mac folx will agree that it is not the company we love, but rather the machines. I am starting to see a problem within the company. After Mr. Jobs comes up with an idea, the actual process should be passed to someone who can take care of all the picky little things that need to be done to assure the Company that Things Like This don't Happen Again. Perhaps Mr. Jobs should not be involved with the daily runnings but the overall vision (yuck, I hate that word) of the Company.
Just my two bits.
But I do still love Macs! (Score:2)
Re:malda you dickhead (Score:1)
No, that sentence is from the actual message you
get when you're banned for 24 hours. It says to
contact Rob, at which point he will side with the
Linux/GPL zealots and tell you they were right to
moderate you down...
"Forget it."
Yeah, you're right, it's just a waste of time
trying to talk to malda unless you're one of those
aforementioned.
-WW
Re:What is this in reference to? (Score:1)
Yep, that way we don't have to read anything
that criticizes Linux, eh? Yeehaw!!
-WW
Re:Apple announcement ? (Score:1)
I must admit that I enjoy (if not love) it when people take me to my words: I believe you (or at least most people) would agree that my comment was made in a certain context; that Apple is reversing an already reversed decision concerning its shipping of pre-ordered product and even cancelling of orders for this product. This is, if true, major news : it would represent a flagrant example of really, really bad apple PR, incredibly awful management and a general lack of respect towards the consumer. These are not light things. In this context, considering that ZDNet cites an unnamed source and that other Apple-related web sites have different stories, wouldn't it be a good idea to wait for an official statement from the company in question ? It's not like they can hope to swipe this under a rug or anything, they'll have to make this policy known officially really soon if they want it to be enforced.
As for your accusations towards Microsoft; If ZDNet cited an unnamed internal Microsoft (to keep to your example) source as saying that the company had decided to cancel development of Windows 2000 (which I would be happy at hearing) or decided to force users to pay an incredible fee for said Windows 2000 simply because they have a monopoly and can, wouldn't you tend to argue that maybe ZDNet is pushing it a bit and maybe we should wait for the next business day (tomorrow) and hope to see some statement from the company ?
My PERSONNAL (yup, that's in uppercase) point of view is that the company should be considered innocent until proven guilty. ZDNet hasn't brought many facts to back its accusation.
It is sad to see the lynching of Apple by
P.S. : For what its worth, if I ever learn, beyond any doubt, that this is true then I will be one of the first to bash on Apple. However, if this turns out to be false, then I do believe ZDNet should at least apologize (and said apology should show up on
In conclusion, never ignore the context in which a comment is made...
P.S. #2: This venting feels good...
Re:I doubt that (Score:1)
It should hurt the Apple Store more than the Mac (Score:2)
I don't think this is going to hurt Apple much, mainly because the product is so strong. Apple customers love the product more than they hate the company's business practices. This is especially true with the new G4s and DV iMacs, which are looking like fantastic creations.
Where it might have an impact is on the Apple store. I've always wondered why people would buy from Apple, when they can get the same product from a retail computer store for less money. I know retailers are pretty clueless nowadays, but at least you have a nice clean transaction where you give them the money and they hand you a computer. Nothing beats that kind of immediacy.
Next time I buy a Mac, that's exactly what I'm going to do - no messups, clean transaction, I get my machine and walk away with it. Sorry, Apple Store.
D
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Re:This is crazy (Score:2)
What are you talking about? This is hardly Apple's death knell. The problem is that they are too popular. Huge numbers of orders, plus unexpected Motorola supply problems, plus unexpected Taiwan supply problems. They simply got to a point where they couldn't fill the orders.
I don't want to seem like I'm defending them too much on this issue, because I think they handled it atrociously, but this is hardly the end of them. Their market share is huge, their stock is hot, their CEO is on the cover of TIME, they're selling over 100,000 iMacs per week, IBM is going to start making G4 chips soon. They're not going anywhere. Even the mass media isn't writing them off anymore. The "it's finally over for Apple" thing is so tired.
Re:Watch the stock (Score:1)
Don't they have contracts? (Score:2)
if I'm agreeing to deliver a product to a client at a guaranted deadline and have suppliers I'm depended on to meet the deadline, I demand deadlines from them, too.
I make contracts with my suppliers where I write down fees for not delivering in time.
I set the fees at least as high as the fees I will have to pay because I cannot meet the timing.
Or I get a phrase in the suppliers contract which states that they have to cover my costs which arise when they fail to deliver in time.
Either apple is dumber than me in doing contracts (which I heavily doubt) or motorola denies to sign such terms. If the first is true - apple, you know where to find me
Oh, I forgot one possibility, perhaps motorola apple has to pay fees to apple and apple just wants to keep them for themselves. (big
Even in the very turbulent graphic boards market I haven't seen such corporate behaviour before.
Announcing vaporware - yes, for sure, but taking orders for vaporware (in the sense of being not ready for delivery) - no, never.
Hello People! What press releases.. All hearsay (Score:2)
As a Mac (Not MAC people!) owner and Apple shareholder I am not outraged or concerned. How many "I used x but not anymore." messages appear hear for Apple, RedHat, Intel, etc. I don't reallly pay attention to them anymore. Apple will prosper and this will be like the whole G4 ROM block tempest in a teapot. (Everyone knows that the G4 upgrades are available now willl no action/reversal from Apple, right?) If I HAD ordered a 500mhz G4 I would be a little mad at Motorla, but hey -some Mhz +some RAM what is the big loss? Not much.
If these wild-cat boycotts worked/were even for real, Apple would of died after killing the Clones. Instead it's gotten 2x marketshare and 3+x stock price.
Disclaimer: Apple is a public corporation and should be trusted/not trusted to act as such. Apple is no one's mother Teresa it sells product for profit.
Thanks alot (Score:1)
Re:malda you dickhead (Score:2)
And don't give me tripe about the moderation being totally out in deep left field around here. Some moderators aren't good, but on the whole, unfair moderations are undone eventually. Lately, I've been reading a lot of score 2 comments that are not ALL pro-GPL.
And on the side, I'd have to say that GNOME, KDE, XFree86, the kernel itself, all are 'large programs.' So thank you, that last point was TOTALLY useless. And honestly, V4L (Video4Linux) is still new, so you should start to see video editing programs come. Neccessity is the mother of invention.
Re:What is with you people here? (Score:2)
Interesting theory, but it doesn't hold water. If Apple had competition in the Mac box arena it would make no difference here. Motorola's inability to deliver would mess up everyone equally.
Re:Just-in-time manufacturing and Apple's hype (Score:1)
As for what apple should have done, IMHO they should have given all the customers with G4s on order the option of buying a slower G3 machine for less money, or wait x weeks for the G4 production to ramp up. Hiking prices and cancelling orders at the same time is a low-blow to the customer, though.
Re:What is this in reference to? (Score:1)
And, to add insult to injury, here's a list of Score:2 posts that are actually pro-NT/MS.
http://slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=99/10/13/08
http://slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=99/10/13/08
Here's one that's actually points to the '10 Dumb NT' things, and applies them as '10 Dumb Linux' things. Score:4
http://slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=99/10/13/08
So why don't YOU stop trolling? While there certainly IS a pro-GNU attitude to this place *SHOCK!!*, don't assume noone has a brain. Except yourself.
Re:Apple announcement ? (Score:3)
This scenario isn't really news. They've already done this with Windows NT 4.0, and will most likely do this with NT 5.0 as well. So if ZD reported that MS was going to stick it to the little guys because they could I sure wouldn't be surprised.
A Confirmed Order Is A Contract (Score:1)
The problem comes when Apple cancels orders that it has already taken.
The cancellation of confirmed orders is what is making customers angry.
When Apple took these orders, Apple agreed to deliver its product for a given price. Now Apple is backing away from its agreement and alienating nearly 80,000 customers by not honoring its contract with them.
A great analysis of the situation (before the flip-flop of the flip-flop) can be found at MacOpinion [macopinion.com].
I do smell a class-action lawsuit brewing here, but for those who don't wish to make an attorney richer, please take the time to let the Federal Trade Commission know how you feel about this using the FTC Complaint Form [ftc.gov].
Btw, in the two scenarios you present, Apple ships more units the first way, not the second (with the worst case being an equal number of shipments).
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i've got an idea (Score:2)
I mean, if apple did cancel the orders that wasn't very nice of them; if they're going to give people who ordered G4s, discounts, that's nice. But do you have to know one way or the other right this instant?? can't you wait a bit until we can have some kind of news report that is definately true one way or the other? instead of the columbine/lewinsky-style drudge reporting we have now?
Damn kids these days. No patience whatsoever. they have to have instant gratification. Can't wait for reliable reports on anything, have to know immediately even if it means it's maybe innacurate..
Hey, wait a minute, i just remembered-- i'm 16, i'm one of the damn kids. and the whole instant-gratification demands in news were brought about by CNN, which was started by baby boomers, and fed by tabloids bought and run by baby boomers.. Hmm. Aw, whatever.
Re:Apple Computers are nice, but... (Score:2)
Try these two links.
http://dailynews.yahoo.com/h/nm/19991016/tc/tec
Wall Street analysts were mostly unfazed, saying they did not expect a big drop in customers or orders.
``It's better than nothing,'' said Lou Mazzucchelli, an analyst at Gerard Klauer Mattison & Co., who predicted customer outrage
when Apple first announced the pricing switch. ``Is it going to make everyone happy, no. On the other hand, I really think
they did have an issue with increased expenses and they are trying to make the best of a bad situation.''
Mazzucchelli estimated that about 5,000 customers have pre-ordered G4 systems from the Apple Store before Oct. 13. The
remaining G4 orders that have yet to be fulfilled were from retail stores or distributors, he said.
``I'm not worrying about it,'' said Daniel Kunstler, an analyst at J.P. Morgan.
and
http://quote.yahoo.com/quotes?SYMBOLS=AAPL&deta
As you can see the stock price has gone up two-and-a-half times this year - following a doubling last year. If you had bought Apple stock at it's low, you would have increased your money 5x.
Where I work there are the Mac user and those (everyone else) who laugh at Apple's blunders. I wish apple didn't make it so easy.
Are you telling me that Intel and Microsoft don't make blunders?
Re:Apple now has 12% according to recent statistic (Score:1)
"A little knowledge is a dangerous thing"
"There are lies, damn lies, and statistics"
That 12% market share being cited is a classic example of both of the cliches. Apple does have a 12% market share in U.S. Consumer market. But that totally excludes international market, corporate market, etc...
Apple's overall market share in the computer market is estimated to be 6%. That's down from the highs of ~15% in the late 80's and even down from the 7% market share of 1996.
Re:Again? (Score:1)
Customers get angry either way. Apple makes more money and ships more units the second way, both of which benefit the Mac platform. Which would you do?
--
everybody remain calm (Score:5)
So you're a computer company dependent on another company for your chips. Fairly normal. Your chip supplier tells you to expect X number of chips and A, B, and C speeds. You plan your configurations, price points, and advertising around these numbers. Then several weeks after you've announced your spiffy new computers, your chip supplier calls you up and says "Oops, we goofed, we won't be able to give you as many chips as we thought and we won't have any running at A Mhz. Sorry!" What are you, as a computer manufacturer, going to do? If Apple had changed processor speeds and price points, their low-end pro system would cost less than an iMac, and they'd be losing tons of revenue because they wouldn't be selling anything at their highest price point. And the reason that they're only honoring a few orders is that they just don't have enough chips to fill all the preorders.
Apple is between a rock and a hard place: if they adjusted their price points to make their customers happy they'd see their profits and stock price drop and their shareholders would be unhappy. So they maintained their price points and a lot of customers are unhappy. If there's anyone to blame here it's Motorola for not meeting demand for the chips. Call me cynical, but I have a feeling that if this was anyone but Apple people would be acting a lot more reasonably.
Re:Watch the stock (Score:2)
As I remember it, Apple started heading into bad times a few years ago when they began having problems delivering PowerMacs. That was the start of a downward spiral from which they almost didn't recover. Back then, I thought the same thing you're saying now -- if the only problem is that demand is too high to meet quickly enough, then it's not much of a problem and will solve itself quickly. But that's now it happened. Loyal customers were alienated and went to other platforms, some of them never to return.
Apple needs to solve this problem pronto.
Re:Apple Computers are nice, but... (Score:1)
I'd like to trade up from my Pentium, but I won't choose an Apple box for some time due to policies like these.
Is that one of the Pentiums with the arithmetic bug? How did you get treated on that? Are you running Windows 98 Special Edition, or the long-lasting W2K beta? How were you treated on that?
Don't believe the hype. Apple screws up, but they usually fix it, and over the past couple of years, they usually learn from their mistakes. Plus, Mac users are overwhelmingly happy with their computers. That counts for a lot. I'd rather have a company that makes great products and sometimes fucks up in business and marketing than the reverse.
Re:This is crazy (Score:1)
Apple is f*cking its most loyal customers (its power users) in the ass! It is not fair to those users and it is not fair to us, the Mac faithful, who have been defending them for years.
Frankly, I'm sick of it.
MacCPU has a good article, Stevie in Vaporland or How to Snatch Defeat from the Jaws of Victory [maccpu.com], on this fiasco.
----
Apple - Never going anywhere... (Score:4)
One comment rally struck me. It seems to be on a lot of people's lips when an "Apple screwed up again" news story comes out (even like this one, without a shred of evidence backing it) - "It seems that Apple, once again, has begun another slow death."
What? Is that like "multiple successful suicide"? For years people have been forecasting the end of Apple. "Apple is dying. Apple cannot survive this time."
Guess what- Apple is still here. No, their market share never seems to go anywhere. They do good (PowerPCs, switching over to the PCI architecture, and so on) and they do bad (flamable PowerBooks, cancelling clones). And yet they are just as strong as ever. Never growing stronger and, at the same time, never growing weaker.
Why is that? Well, with everyone's favorite monopoly, Microsoft, around, Apple can only tread water. It has a good product (wheter you choose to admit it or not, MacOS is a decent evironment. There are better out there, but not a whole lot), but not good enough to take MS down (can anyone, single-handedly?).
Apple does have a good customer base, and good customer loyalty. Apple has been smart enough to know that interoperability is key. Starting many years ago, all shipping Macs are capable of reading PC disks (floppy and otherwise). TCP/IP became an imporant form of networking that Apple soon integrated (MacOS 9 includes AppleScripting over TCP/IP!). These facts keep it afloat, despite PR screwups.
So where does that leave Apple? Not able to break the 10-15% marketshare because of MS, but with a strong enough customer base that it is not going to fail. I would not call Apple a "niche" company, since there is not set "niche" that is customers fall into. Rather, Apple is a by-product of the current monopolistic state we find ourselves in with dektop PCs.
Perhaps Linux-followers have a lot to learn from Apple.
Re:major PR problem (Score:1)
Re:What is with you people here? (Score:1)
While it's true that if there were cloners, they would not be able to deliver G4 systems, they certainly would be able to deliver better products than Apple is currently hawking. Yes, the AltiVec engine can provide some amazing speedups, but the core of the chip is exactly the same as the G3, which can easily spec up to 1 GHz and beyond. Whose to say that if the cloners were still around we wouldn't be seeing a 800 MHz G3 available on the market. For most of us (surf the web, read e-mail, compile) this would smoke a 350, 400, 450 or 500 MHz G4 (aka G3 + AltiVec)
I purchased several clone systems and deal with the makers was spectacular. The best part seemed to be they only offered items that were actually available. I bought a then cutting edge Motorola StarMax 5000 with a 300 MHz chip, and recieved it two days later. Stomp on my foot and call me Charlene! What service!
Re:Hard to imagine... (Score:1)
If he wanted a "top of the line" system he'd order a Sparc Ultra something-or-other. Or an SGI. Whatever.
AMD sucks. (just my opinion- wanta buy a slightly used K6-2 mobo/processor??)
Why does everyone see this... (Score:3)
AppleStore orders will be fulfilled (Score:2)
Re:What is this in reference to? (Score:1)
This is an example of what I'm talking about.
Because you don't agree with me, you have to
label me a troll, even though what I said was
the absolute truth based on my experience on
slashdot. Big deal, you pointed out three posts
that buck the trend. All that means is some anti-
Linux people got there before you.
-WW
Re:How long will it take them to realize (Score:1)
---------------------------------
Who moderates this thing?
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ZDNet IS ON CRACK! Slashdot is an enabler. (Score:3)
Why does Slashdot let this drivel through the gate? And better yet, why do so many Slashdot readers believe it? Slashdot is supposed to be about not swallowing things based on face value. Apple has issued ONE, SINGULAR, UNO press release on this matter, entitled "Apple Reconfigures Power Mac G4 Processor Speeds to Match Chip Availability." Whatever ZDNet and MacWeek said is their problem. Let's review Slashdot's stories on this over the past several days:
Wednesday: According to MacInTouch, Apple just reduced the processing speed of G4s by 50Mhz, without a price reduction or change in configuration, and cancelled all outstanding orders.
Thursday: According to MacInTouch "Apple has reversed the cancellation of existing Power Mac G4 orders, according to impeccable sources, and is calling back customers to explain
Sunday: "ZDNN appears to be reporting that Apple appears to be reversing its decision to reinstate all cancelled G4 orders, except for "a few orders"
So, for some odd reason, the first two days are pointed at MacInTouch, but the last one is pointed at ZDNet. If anyone had actually looked at MacInTouch today, they would realize that MacInTouch has (correct) information that directly contradict's MacWeek's:
As we reported first on Oct. 14, Apple reversed its decision to cancel outstanding Apple Store orders for Power Mac G4 computers and to force customers to re-order. [...] (Sources say that a contradictory report, citing Apple spokesperson Rhona Hamilton, has since been retracted.)
MacNN.com [macnn.com] (the most reputable of the sites, IMNSHO), confirms this:
Our understanding is that all Apple Store orders before the "reconfiguration announcement" will be honored, as part of Apple's reversal on its G4 Cancellation policy. [...] (Muddying the issue is a MacWEEK report that claims Apple will only be reversing a limited number of Apple Store orders.)
If Slashdot (or readers) cannot responsibly research and report on Apple, it should cease doing so.
- Scott
------
Scott Stevenson
Hard to imagine... (Score:2)
I for one, don't use a MAC, so it's no sweat off my back. However, I can't help but feel for the mass of business owners that had theirs on mass order, awaiting their arrival. Oftentimes, as is happening where I work, companies make plans AROUND the fact and around the date they are to receive new equipment.
Point? Well, don't really have one. But you've got to wonder how many hard core MAC users this is upsetting. Quite obviously, to have something pre-ordered, you either REALLY like what it has to offer, are REALLY devoted to the organization, or simply NEED it BADLY, and very fast.
I'd love to hear from some MAC users, perhaps even some people who had these on pre-order, and get their take on the situation.
Is apple NUTS? (Score:1)
I mean, its like they're chatting over press releases; we don't care how they arrive to a decision about resolving the matter, we want to know the decision when they make it. This is the definition of adding insult to injury.
Apple seems unable to realize that they can't treat their customers like idiots and expect the G4 to be the big success they need it to be.
-W
Greed and stupidity. (Score:1)
Apple needs to clear this PR disaster up quickly or they will start losing market share again.
To Apple: C'mon guys, lets get the act together. Customer service is the biggest thing to differentiate you from your competition. People aren't going to buy your boxes, no matter how "superior" you might think they are if you don't take care of the customer. Customers are why you are in business.
I can't believe so many companies, especially Silicon Valley companies miss this mark. Just putting out a good product isn't enough. Turn your nose at your customers, and they'll just go elsewhere.
Re:This is crazy (Score:1)
This being said, Apple isn't like Amiga. The Amiga is now dead-ish because of horrible management. In this [Apple's] case it looks like a problem of the technology catergory.
I still don't like the way they are handling it. Apple has done well with a 5% (+/-) market share. I truly think the management should be applauded for their efforts. But, the road to hell is paved with good intentions.
*Sigh* - And I really liked the G3, too...
Re:what a debacle (Score:2)
If you read some of the Mac sites (macintouch.com, mosr.com, macnn.com), you'll see very few people claiming such things. The Mac fanatics love the platform but have, at best, a love/hate relationship with Apple.
... (Score:2)
--
what about Motorola (Score:1)
Sounds like Steve Jobless living up to his image (Score:4)
Steve yelled as loud as he could at Motorala engineers "ARE YOU VIRGINS!!?!" to push the defective chips out while Motorola engineers probably winced that morning and wondered what the idiot was doing. Then Apple started getting complaints from customers.
At 3am fielding a sea of customer complaints Steve's engineers probably started yelling at him "I'M SO SICK AND TIRED OF YOUR ABUSE ON THIS PROJECT!!!!" for being such a madman. Steve finally exploded and yelled "ALL RIGHT! These chips don't work. Stop production!!!!" Definitely a guy you don't want to work for.
Re:malda you dickhead (Score:1)
If you think this is unfair, you should contact malda@slashdot.org.
Let me get this straight, you want everyone to E-Mail Rob and tell him that his method of temp-banning is unfair?
Forget it.
I don't think you understand how difficult it is to run a forum like this and how consuming it is (both economically and time-wise). To come into a fourm and ask for the floodgates to open into Malda's mailbox is a stupid, juvenile thing to do.
Things like temp-banning, moderation, and karma were put into place because people like you continually abused the system.
Oh yeah, and the GNU rant was so stupid it was humorous. Yeah, I'm sure everyone will want to help you out on your E-Mail campain.
Apple Reality (Distortion) (Score:1)
This is just business as usual for Apple. Bad business, to be sure, but these sorts of things should be expected by now. Maybe paying this much attention to Apple is new to a large number of the /. crowd. Whenever they announce for sale a new product that you want you have to give them at least two weeks, if not a month, and closely follow macintouch and the other sites to see if they rushed it. Wait for the reports of product delays, periferals that don't work, software that does not work,...etc it will all sort itself out and is usually worth the wait. But you have to wait when it comes to Apple. Don't get me wrong. I'm not defending them. This is (another) royal screw up. I'm just not surprised is all and I'll probably be looking into getting a G4 system in a couple of months when the dust settles and I can be sure I know what I'm getting.
Don't like it? Leave. (Score:3)
- A.P.
--
"One World, one Web, one Program" - Microsoft promotional ad
Re:It should hurt the Apple Store more than the Ma (Score:2)
However, it's true that we folks who live in massive urban areas tend to take our conveniences for granted. Within an hour's drive, I have at least two CompUSAs and two - no, three - Fry's electronics outlets.
However, that's still no reason to take Apple's lousy non-student pricing. There are any number of fine online Mac retailers, and they all comfortably undercut Apple.
D
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Apple announcement ? (Score:5)
Moreover, if a message on ZDNet had been posted about anything of usual interest to
Anyways, www.macintouch.com seems to offer an interesting spin on the ZDNet story; one which makes more sense and one which satisfies my curiosity until the next press release from Apple.
Re:... (Score:2)
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Re:malda you dickhead (Score:2)
Re:How long will it take them to realize (Score:2)
Re:what about Motorola (Score:2)