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Apple Businesses

Apple Announcements 158

Posted by CowboyNeal from the samuels-fav-platform dept.
pavewrld sent in a couple of links. The first is over at MacWorld Online and announces the new PowerMac G3's, which look similar to the iMac. The second announces the new iMac's, which now come in a variety of colors. Also in Apple news, NikT wrote in to say that Mac OS X server was announced, and it will include Apache and BSD 4.4. Finally, Ethan Butterfield wrote in to let us know of Steve Jobs' keynote address at MacWorld Expo. Apparently Apple has licensed OpenGL from SGI, and John Carmack demoed Quake 3 Arena on one of the new G3's. You can read more at Macintouch. Phew! With MacWorld Expo going on, the Apple news is nonstop.
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Apple Announcements

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  • My wife picked out the car because "it looked sporty and cute"

    My mother picked out her computer because "this shade of beige goes with the wall paper".

    Maybe techies and gear heads care what's under the hood, but most of the public are happy with their "cute" P-150's and Saturns.

    My case at home is ugly as hell... so's my car.
  • Micron, Dell, and Gateway are NOT the best computer builders.

    I am.

    And if you know how to do it, you are too.

    I can consistently configure better, cheaper computers by skimping on things I don't need to be all that great (sound, video on a server, etc) and can get quality parts that I know what they are.

  • First of all, I like Apple and there machines. Say what you will - I'll agree that the OS can use A LOT of fixing (soon to be remedied by OS X - not server, just OS X). I will even agree on the pricing issue, macs cost much more than PCs.

    Secondly, QUIT FREAKIN' complaining about things like the case. Look, do you really think that Apple is targeting the slashdot audience? Well, do ya? No...They are trying to draw in "normal" people - you know them, the people who aren't like most of said audience?

    Mac OS X server - I'm sorry, Mac OS X server and Linux ARE NOT equal by any means. Sure, they may be able to do some of the tasks, but I'm betting a lot of people are willing to buy an OS that is well supported (you can't get this level of hardware/OS support any where other than commercial establishments). And another thing, Linux is by no means easy to setup. Mac OS X Server is infinitely easier to setup. Don't get me wrong, I love Linux, but sometimes this cult-like following needs to admit a few things - like Linux isn't the most user freindly OS in the world (and I don't want to hear those people out there who will pipe up and say, "Oh yes, Linux is VERY user friendly, in fact, the other day I ...", etc. - stop bloating you ego/image).

    Price - you all are usually comparing build your own machines to Apple's. Well, stop. Compare to name brand machines. Macs are still more expensive than PCs. Two reasons: Apple sort of needs to keep its profits up. You can't do that with a small consumer following and low prices, you, sadly, have to charge more. Apple has been trying, one can see from the drastically lower prices of new macs, to bring costs down. Reason two: Many may not agree with me, but I believe that Apple machines have better quality parts, and thus a higher reliability. I've seen all sorts of things go bad on PCs, all over the place - more so than on a macs.

    I have to agree on the mouse and keyboard - especially the 2/3 button problem.
  • It makes perfect sense to me - the iMac is competing for the same type of people who, if they bought a PC, would buy a Compaq.
  • Don't read it then. I'm personally not interested in Apache since I don't run an http server, but I don't bitch when somebody posts an article about it.
  • Don't read it then. I'm personally not interested in Apache (since I don't run an http server), but I don't bitch when somebody posts an article about it, or when somebody posts an article about corporate databases, or other such stuff that doesn't interest me. If we all bitched every time an article didn't interest us, the comments would suck more than they already did.

    So, if you don't like Apple, be quiet and don't read the article.
  • Definitely top quality stuff. My Apple //c still works flawlessly, as does my Imagewriter color dot matrix printer. I've never had to call tech support for either one of them.

    As for the PC crap I've owned, the Packard Bell's motherboard died in 3 years, the Canon inkjet printer is not too reliable, and the 14" monitor is a funny blueish color (it goes away if you jiggle the monitor cable at the back), and it's only four years old.

    The Apple, which is 14 years old, is definitely in better condition than everything except the 8-month-old Pentium II (though by the time the Apple is 20 years old in six years, it'll probably be in better condition than the Pentium II will be when it's seven years old).
  • The usage "xxx wa yappari yyy" means something more like (in this case) "BeOS is best on Multi". A little more positive-sounding.
  • God, they're STILL using ATI chipsets? When will Apple ever learn?

    While ATI made vast improvements with the Rage 128, everything I've seen indicates it still gets blown away by the likes of a Riva TNT (And in visual quality but not 3D performance by the G200)

    Apparently the 128 takes a significant performance hit when performing trilinear filtering, while the Riva TNT gets "free" trilinear.

    Still, at least Apple isn't using S3. :)
  • ppc linux + sheepshaver

    for the curious
    http://www.sheepshaver.com
    http://www.linuxppc.org

    and for anyone with grips about interface,
    http://www.bioele.nuee.nagoya-u.ac.jp/member/tak /mlvwm.html

    the combination much cheaper (and likely to be
    faster) than this BSD4.4 on top of mach thing.
    if not for the macOS package being so expensive id
    try it out. but it looks like the only real
    advantages are the remote mac thing and web objects
  • "Jobs specifically showed that the PowerPC G3 400 was about twice as fast as a Pentium II 450 with everything else the same"

    I work for a company that produced what used to be a Mac-only app, but in 1996 we released a Windows version as well. A Mac fan created a speed test with a script for our app. A Pentium II-300 scored a 14.0 on the test; a G3-300 scored 14.7. (Higher is better) Not exactly a factor of two, and we've been on the Mac much longer than we've been on the PC.
  • It wouldn't be a first for VW to include another product as an option to their car.

    Altho' a New Beetle Imac could also have a translucent hood and front bumper, come in trippy colors, have a powerful engine, etc. It would also have two daisy-chainable cigarette lighter ports that can attach any type of device. It would have a wonderful CD-changer and speakers. Unfortunately, there wouldn't be a radio, although you could attach a 3rd party one into one of the cigarette lighter ports.
  • Apple Insider [appleinsider.com] has some more info on the keynote speech, including a blow-by-blow description. I really want to see that pile of 50 iMacs all showing the same video. Jobs sure does have a knack for spectacle.
  • This is from Macintouch:
    dedicated video slot is PCI 2.1 compliant but allows only fixed, 66-MHz operation at 3.3 V.;
    the other [3] PCI slots can switch between 32-bit and 64-bit operation (at standard 33 MHz) and operate at 5V.
  • "Sorry, but I can't even find an office PC that costs $4800, unless its a server. And while that 266Mhz G3 might be faster than the 266Mhz
    Cyrix in a $400 PC, I suspect it would be sadly embarrased by a 450Mhz PII. Yeah, they got pretty colors, but if they want to maintain
    some semblance of credibility, they should install some bullshit filters on their marketing dept. output!"

    Uh, the 4800 dollar version is a special apple
    server model. You could buy one of the regular
    models for a _lot_ less and have a very nice
    server running Linux on a 300 Mhz PPC, or
    even a 400 Mhz PPC.

    I'm lusting after firewire disk drives as we
    speak.



  • Can you boot fifty diskless clients off linux?
  • it costs $999 for a peice of software that apple has no intentions of supporting past this version. What a deal!
  • Wake up mac lamer. Celerons have 128k of on die cache. Makes for a pretty speedy $100 chip, that overclocks pretty dang well.
  • Oh I forgot: I admin a network of about 100 G3 machines (as well as 350 other macs) and I have yet to see ONE G3 'outperform' (or in Jobs speak) TOAST a pentium. I agree that in theory they may be *faster* but I have never seen it in real life. The damn things are pokier than shit. And I am being nice. (Maybe it is just the MacOS that doesnt do it justice, but linuxPPC has yet to take advantage of the processor yet)

  • WRONG (Score:1)

    by Danta ( 2241 )
    As far as I understand the 4th slot is proprietary, although it's PCI.
  • Unfortunately, Apple appears to be taking a page from M$ here. At least, half a page at any rate.

    MacOS X Server does appear to cost $999. OSX itself will probably be around $100, just as MacOS is now (it's slated to replace MacOS, and it can't do that if it isn't priced similarly).

    The difference is that with MacOSX Server you get unlimited clients. NT costs nearly five times as much for that right which M$ calls a "privilege."

    Now, there's one other possibility. Consider: it appears that OSX will be perfectly usable as a server. Also consider that $999 is the cost of membership in Apple's developer program. Furthermore, take into account that OSX Server is in essence a beta of OSX. Are you starting to get the picture? The $999 price tag is essentially for the right to betatest OSX. I'd imagine the price will drop very drastically once OSX is released.
  • For that price I can get the iMac with Virtual PC and run Linux/x86 im emulation faster than the Celeron can natively. It's true.
  • unstable non-multitasking is a "bug"

    Whoa. You've managed to make no sense here. Were you referring to two things (stability and supposed non-multitasking, about which you are dead wrong), or just one?

    one game is not enough to make a platform
    True. Many games are not enough to make a platform either. Games are, in fact, useless to making a platform; they contribute nothing but marketing dollars. Macs have all the top games anyway (or they are in development) so who cares?
  • Um, no offense, but what does Java have to do with any of this?
  • Just a clarification... MacOS X Server _is_ BSD4.4. Mach kernel, BSD personality, MacOS-like GUI.
  • The new purple iMac looks rather nice, as do the new G3 cases...

    There is a paucity of good aesthetic design in computer cases; too often you get either bland beige office furniture, or cheesy scifi plastic. I'd like to see some classic styles; how about an Art Deco Bakelite case; or perhaps curvy orange-red plastic for that swingin'-60s space-age bachelor pad look?
  • When I last heard, Apple had made no decision on OS X Server support past this version. They were playing around with dropping it, but that was just a rumor. My guess is the Apple is "testing" the waters before it commits to everything. Then again, that's just speculation :-)

  • Barbie (Score:1)

    by Troy ( 3118 )
    Don't get me wrong, I'm a fan of the Mac platform and all of that.

    And not that I necessarily dislike the look of Yosmite (the new G3 P-Mac), but doesn't it look like something that they snagged out of Barbie's dream house?
  • I guess I'll stick with LinuxPPC and Sheepshaver.
  • The ATI Rage 128 outperforms the TNT in 32-bit color mode, which could be important in some of the Mac's 'media' strongholds. It also has a very good MPEG-2 decoder (the best in a 2D/3D combo chip, according to Tom's Hardware), has the RGB out necessary for flat LCD monitors and can handle DTV. Look at Tom's Hardware forum for more information about this. The TNT is better in some respects, but the Rage 128 definitely wasn't a bad choice.
  • you just can't beat the extended ii. i'm using one _right now_. i'll give the mouse a try - i generally hate all mice equally. at any rate, it looks like i'll be getting one regardless of how potentially ugly it is (2nd generation be hardware was kickass, the imac is kickass... what i really want is a connection machine case. drool)

    anyone know of a good usb generic serial adapter? i'd like to keep my existing generimodem.
  • Is the cases. Now, I am not crazy about Apple's new cases, but they dont look terrible. But the fact that Apple had the guts to come out with them is what I like. Trying new things...

    Now, what I am hoping, is that PC makers take note and start making some cool looking cases. Really, how hard would it be to design a box that can take a stnd ATX case that looks cool? Throw in a couple fans and plenty of drive bays...

    So many of us take such time into making our desktops look cool, why not have a case to match?

    With Apple showing that a pretty box will sell, hopefully others will jump on the bandwagon.

    Elwood.
  • ... is it brings together a subset of Microsoft and unix fans so they can bash Apple. This is ironic given that Apple's is moving slowly towards open standrds while Microsoft continues to free from them.

    And yes, I know AC postings shouldn't be considered stereotypical of any group. I wouldn't be AT ALL surprised if at least SOME of these idiot trollers were some part of Microsoft's latest "grass roots" campaign. A cute cowardly Visual Basic script..

    Rather than being scornful of Apple's latest move to UNIX you should at least try to find SOME good in this, rather than "it sucks because it isn't Linux". Or at least rant about how Solaris and IRIX are also "not Linux" so to look like more of an idiot to a larger group. Apple, pre-Steve Jobs, were giving serious thought to moving the MacOS GUI on top of the WINDOWS NT kernal.

    I think SOME Linux "advocates" are using their platform as an exclusionary tool; I mean they are being critical without being helpful. Lots of people on the "other" side, Windows or Mac, look longingly towards Linux, but then they hear how difficult it can sometimes be to get your hardware working. I bet you System X doesn't have this ease-of-use problem.

    Stop looking down your nose be grateful there are "lesser evils" than Microsoft, like Apple, Be, Sun and SGI. If you can program, you should be ashamed of yourself. Donate the time you spend trolling to a worthy cause, like a nice open and FRIENDLY configuration utility that is half as good as Microsoft's and a tenth as good as Apple's.

    Flame away, I don't care. :-D
  • The G3 is not a bargain basement machine. Apple doesn't have the resources or the desire to replicate the entire PC market.

    Obviously you can get a cheap PC by skimping on quality of various parts. The G3 is not aimed at you if thats what you want. When comparing to PCs, make sure you're looking at a high end video editing machine. Make sure you include a 16Meg video card plus a Voodoo2, 10/100 Ethernet, 100Mhz bus, 1Meg of cache at 200Mhz, USB and Firewire, etc.
  • I too was a little dissapointed with the new cases, and raging about the way they used the iMac kybd and mouse. I've decided I like the box - it takes getting used to but I daresay that if you see it in the flesh with one of those monitors... whoa. Nice.

    But that mouse is brutal. It is worse than brutal. How the FUCK do they expect a profesional designer using his/her mouse up to 6 - 8 hours a day to use that thing? New USB mice cost money - luckily they left the ADB port, but it's not good enough. That's the one thing that put me off. They decided to save a bit of money and use those shite parts on the part of the machine that you use most (after the monitor).

    If I'm working fast I can't afford to make mistakes by hitting the wrong keys and that keyboard is built for it. It's too small, way too small. Whatever happened to the Apple Extended Keyboard II? I have one and it is something else. And the mouse is horrendous to use - weren't they going to bring out an new mouse with two buttons? Come on, guys! It's an anti-photoshop combo from hell.




    Sorry. Had to get that out of my system. Yeah, I like that box...
  • While most of these thnigs are great (mainly Apple still making it to another Macworld) , I think the most important is the OpenGL announcement.....look's like there is a industry standard 3D api now....being on all major platforms. Be, MS, SGI, Apple, and Linux? Also, the new G3 specs are pretty nice, but I am not sold on the case yet. Guess I will need to see one in person. I think SGI has them on this one, as far as cases go. But it looks like they will have some serious graphics horsepower. They are thinking different for sure, the Apple of years ago would never do any of this.

  • I agree, anyone that dare puts a invigorating design out gets points with me. I am pro Mac (an all Mac Architect's office, a dying breed, hope for reversal), and I did't like the iMac when I first saw it in print/electrons, but after getting up close and personal, my mind changed. I suppose the same will happen here, though I did like the rumored ice/smoke grey combo a little better. A little more suttle, at least for my taste.


  • awesome idea, i love cable architecture....and you make desk and floor space, I think you are on to some thing.....


  • in RealVideo, the new box, and well everything, started to grow on me. I suggest checking it out if you can. A little long, but entertaining. And definitely informatinve. I think I will get one of those new boxes, and some descent peripherals.
  • For $4999, you get a single-CPU system with what appears to be 2 drive bays, no floppy drive, and a mighty generous 16MB video RAM that most servers never flex.

    Considering the scary dual-PII/450 systems with 6 bays you can get for that money, you'd better plan on making good use of that copy of WebObjects they throw in (which I guess you'll need level-4 JDBC drivers to talk to the world with) and the Appleshare file and print services.

    To be fair, it is sort of neat that Apple will now be shipping a rock-solid server OS, of all things.
  • So that's $1000 for BSD 4.4 bundled with a commercial-grade Appleshare server and a copy of what I perhaps foolishly assume will be a developer-only license for WebObjects, given that WebObjects traditionally costs tens of thousands of dollars to deploy.

    And I guess you get phone tech support.. which I sure hope they're busy training people to provide.

    I'd still think hard about this. Do you want Apple to be your frontline support provider for a BSD variant? Are you committed to using WebObjects as your web templating and middleware system? And assuming you need to do Mac filesharing, does netatalk not do what you need?

    If you answer yes to all the above, this has appeal. If not, you're buying a mighty expensive single-CPU, low-capacity, no-hotswappable-anything box to run that $1000 version of BSD, which is the same price as BSDI/OS AFAIK.

    I mean, for the $4000 they're getting for that 256MB G3/400, you can get a pretty nice dual-PII server with 6 hotswap drive bays and a hot-spare power supply.

    This is a big leap forward for Apple, but the pricing still isn't quite competitive, and at the moment it's a dead-end as far as scalability goes. Where are the SMP systems to migrate up to as your needs grow once you commit to OS X? It's not as though they'll be able to pitch Mac-like ease-of-use as a price justification for these MacBSD systems.

    I'm impressed by the direction they've taken, but the lack of bigger iron in their product line would make it foolish to consider for now. And their decision to forge ahead with what looks like yet another branch off the BSD tree sets off little alarm bells.
  • among all the hype about new macs, new colors for the iMac... the real news is:

    Quake2 and Quake3 will be released for the Mac soon!

    :-)

    another serious application for the Mac...

    -- rednic
  • Yes, a total of THREE PCI slots.
    Knock out one for your new video card.
    Knock out one for your SCSI controller.
    ANd if you ever upgrade your sound card, there's the last one.

    I have yet to see many choices on the USB end, FireWire is gonna be even worse, even if it is far superior.

    This is barely more upgradeable than an iMac
  • It may be a grand, but look at what you get -


    -unlimited users(YEAH, eat that MS)
    -quicktime
    -appleshareIP(for serving mac, windows)
    -webobjects(very nice, look into it if you dont know about it already)
    -And all the other nicities like Apache, while free, will probably have nice setup and config utilities.
    -NetBoot(finally. 1 server demonstrated booting up 50 iMacs simultainiusly)
    -and it will probably sell for 600 or 700 on the street.


  • It actually has 4 PCI slots

    1 64-bit 33mhz for the video card
    3 32-bit 33/66mhz slots left empty

    these high badwidth slots can easily accomodate a PCI expansion chassis with 3,7, or 11 slots(also rumord to be coming out following the same design and the tower) and have space in these for disk arrays. Most mac users dont need more then 3 extra slots. If your going to upgrade the video card then take out the old one. Besides, most PC's only have 3 or 4 pci slots anyway, and they ALWAYS have to be used for things like SCSI, Video, and the like, so I dont see what that one poster was complaining about. There are plenty of drive bays, and lots of space for ram(a gig of 100mhz 10ns ram sounds good to me). Finally, a well rounded machine from apple.

    And lets here it for what should be the BEST implementation of OpenGL.

  • Really, I'm sick of this crap. Unless it's related to Linux/PPC or m68k or something similar, I'm just not interested. Apple is a bunch of mindless, heartless bastards and I will have nothing to do with them. Their systems suck now, and will always suck, and their proprietary, unethical business model sickens me.

    Okay, done now.
  • I *REALLY* doubt that MacOS X Server is targetted
    at the Linux-community either... It's more likely
    targetted at those NT-heads that run companies
    where the CEO's want NT and the tech-support
    and everyone else doesn't...
  • Well, those who already have a Apple Bus Mouse II
    can continue using it with their new computer...
    So, where's the problem?
  • No sound cards for the Mac? I use a Korg 1212 in my G3 300mhz machine for digital audio work and am pumping out 48 discrete channels of audio with many complex effects, all in extremely pristine quality. I write music, mix and master CDs right in the machine! The Korq has analog, SPDIF and LightPipe IO and rocks the world of just about anyone who hears it. The 1212 is only one of many options, as well. The Mac is the best machine for digital audio work, imnsho, and I've tried three major platforms extensively.

    The 1212 sounds w-a-y better than the built-in set. Still, the stock sound system blows Windows "standards" out of the water.

    Razor
  • the title says it all:

    What's up with MacOS X server for x86?
  • The base price of the Mac OS X Server is $4999. That's the system he was refering to. The base price of the new G3 is $1599.

    SteveM
  • That will be the key to making this thing fly, if you ask me. Most users couldn't care less--unless they run into problems--what video chipset their computer uses, what the speed of the system bus is, what kind of RAM, etc., etc.--they just want it to work and meet the demands they place on it. With users being able to simply install memory upgrades, expansion cards, etc., without having to deal with a "black-box" case that's bolted shut like a tv set (and "therefore" requires you to pay for some pimple-studded wanna-be geek from CompostUSA to come over to your house an hour later than scheduled, stare lustfully at your daughter, frighten the cat, enrage the dog, leave footprints on your new carpet, and then spend five minutes actually doing the upgrade . . .)is a HUGE step in the right direction. It helps to demystify an aspect of personal computing that I've always hated--from the standpoint of a general user, at least.

    What's more--and don't get me wrong, I'm not knocking PC hardware itself in any way--but there is simply NO PC out there that I can think of that even comes close to being truly "user-friendly" in this way. (Coupled with Windoze what you usually get is user-nightmarish.)

    Aside, the case's appearance . . . well, it looks pretty damned ugly, if you ask me. But hey, I thought the iMac was an eye-sore when it first appeared, but, well . . . now I have one and . . . it grows on you. (Wish I'd gotten a purple or green or orange one, though--ah well.)
  • Considering WebObjects is around $1K and ASIP is around $500, it's a good deal for THAT bundle. But I wish they'd sell it without all that stuff (price around $100?). Oh, well...
  • That's what this is all about: making Mac hardware the best deal for running WebObjects (for, say, low to medium range systems).
  • but OSX (non-server) should give you all that good stuff and should sell for ~$100. 3rd or 4th qtr, 1999
  • c'mon...Mesa is a bunch of freeware crap, just like linux.
    Hm, so you're saying Linux is crap as well. That's about the worst insult of all kinds. :o\ If Linux were as bug-ridden as you make it sound then I would have trashed it already and went back to (eek!) microsoft.

    I've never ever used an Apple product for the Macintosh that could ever even remotely be described as buggy.
    And, having used a mac myself for a few years, you notice the MacOS has it's bugs as well. Multitasking is OK, but could use a lot of work, because even in 64 megs of ram, Netscape (albeit probably a pretty buggy piece of software in and of itself) continued to barf on me and crash the whole system. If the multitasking were implemented properly, it wouldn't have brought the whole system behind it when it went bonkers.

    Once Quake3 is out there, everyone in the world will see that Macs are the best gaming platform.
    I'll believe it when i see it. And, just because the Mac gets one more game doesn't make it the best gaming platform. It's like saying that Linux is the best server platform. I'm sorry, but I see better all the time, mainly in the *BSD area. Perhaps Apple will find something good with OS X server :o)
  • c'mon...Mesa is a bunch of freeware crap, just like linux.
    Hm, so you're saying Linux is crap as well. That's about the worst insult of all kinds. :o\ If Linux were as bug-ridden as you make it sound then I would have trashed it already and went back to (eek!) <gag>microsoft</gag>.

    I've never ever used an Apple product for the Macintosh that could ever even remotely be described as buggy.
    And, having used a mac myself for a few years, you notice the MacOS has it's bugs as well. Multitasking is OK, but could use a lot of work, because even in 64 megs of ram, Netscape (albeit probably a pretty buggy piece of software in and of itself) continued to barf on me and crash the whole system. If the multitasking were implemented properly, it wouldn't have brought the whole system behind it when it went bonkers.

    Once Quake3 is out there, everyone in the world will see that Macs are the best gaming platform.
    I'll believe it when i see it. And, just because the Mac gets one more game doesn't make it the best gaming platform. It's like saying that Linux is the best server platform. I'm sorry, but I see better all the time, mainly in the *BSD area. Perhaps Apple will find something good with OS X server :o)

    And bah! Damn thing sucked up all of my HTML tags, oh well.
  • does that pc include a monitor and ethernet?
  • Last year, ATI became the #1 graphics chip maker before Rage 128 was even released. Why? For companies that have to design motherboards and systems with a graphics chip integrated, performance is only one part of the equation. For instance, ATI's customer service and engineering support for those kinds of companies is among the very best in the business. They also have a lot of other business pluses that made them number one even though S3, 3DFX and Nvidia (sp?) put out Savage3D, Banshee/Voodoo II and RIVA TNT before Rage 128 came out.

    What I'm basically saying is, Apple has different needs compared to end users, so they have to choose for different reasons too. There's more to it than just raw perfomance.
  • It also allows other Macs to boot up from it. Steve Demonstrated a (drive-less) iMac booting directly from a server over 100base-T. It was very fast.

    The cost is for the server with unlimited clients. Microsoft charges per seat, don't they? If so, this would be a substantial price break over NT servers.
  • I saw two VW Beetle's at Macworld Expo today that looked like iMacs. I beleive there is company giving them a way as a promotion. They looked pretty cool...but I'm not sure I would want to be seen on the road with one of them.
  • I saw the new G3 boxes in person today. They actually look a lot better then some of the pictures I've seen on the Web. The box seems to be smaller than a standard minitower.

    The ability to get into the computer with a touch of a button is very cool. Just push..and the motherboards and bays become instantly available. Here's a picture [apple.com] in case you haven't seen it.

  • I thought Apple would bundle MkLinux with these machines.
  • I agree. I had heard that the case was going to be like that of the 8600/9600 models but dark translucent blue. That would have been cool. Though the case Apple used does look strangely good somehow...however the keyboard and mouse have to go. My friend got an iMac when they first came out and I never could get the hang of the mouse, he says he likes it though...Judging from its specs thougt, Apple should sell them like hotcakes.
  • 2) The demo of OS X Server was very quick but impressive. ...but booting 50 iMac's off the stock PowerMac running the server stands as one of the better demo's I've seen.

    I think that there was a Partial error of ommission. Fast well designed network for the demo. Catch the mention of four 100-baseT ports, all slots filled. Probably on a switched fabric, too. Raid array.
  • > "Ours does what their's does for a LOT less!"

    No, your's doesn't.

    DPS
    Objective-C runtime
    NetInfo
    Mach
    WebObjects
    Quality user interface (- IMHO)

    Linux ain't bad, but it ain't OpenStep.

    JFB
  • Look, don't embarass yourself. You've never seen OpenStep, have you?

    Linux doesn't have the Next Objective-C runtime. Nothing that runs on Linux doesn't support DPS as an imaging model. Linux on Mach doesn't support zone memory allocation, Mach messaging, Mach ports. Linux web tools are nothing /at all/ like WebObjects. Linux has nothing like Application or Interface Builder.

    Linux is fine for what it is, but the $999 gets you a considerably more mature OS. Linux has wonderful tools, but the whole is less than the sum of the parts.

    I'll concede the point about UI, as that is highly subjective.

    JFB

  • Ok, a little clarification is needed...

    1) There are four not three PCI slots. The fourth slot is a high speed PCI slot which contains the ATI card. If you want to replace the video, replace the card. Otherwise, try out dual-monitor support... it's a hell of a lot better on the Mac.

    2) Yes, you'd have to take a slot for the SCSI controller, but EIDE is on the motherboard if speed isn't as big of a deal. Plus, now that Apple is shipping a viable machine with FireWire, high end devices should start appearing (ie, Hard Drives, CDR, etc).

    3) Thanks to the iMac, more USB devices exist than did before.

    4) I don't think you'll ever find a Mac user that has upgraded or had to upgrade their sound card. That's because it's a part of the Mac chipset and has been standard for quite a long time. Heck, even the original Mac can play sampled sound quite nicely.

    This is a awesome machine. Apple has finally addressed the big issues that needed to be addressed. This machine comes standard with 64 megs of RAM. A kick ass video card. 100 megabit Ethernet. 100 mhz bus. And the list goes on. And the price is amazing for what you're getting. Just try to get a name brand PC for that price. The last time I checked, Compaq had a PII 450 with some of the features, but surely not the video card, of the new G3 and it was in the $2100 price range.

  • The specs have
    3 33Mhz 64bit PCI slots
    1 64Mhz 32bit PCI slot for the ATI 128 card.

  • >Companies that stay in a niche market -- that do one thing and do it well -- are commendable and rare.

    Thats because they always get taken over by the big guys. Take GoLive, they just got bought by Adobe. Apple know it can never be as big as MS. As Steve said, they (Apple) are just trying to make the best damn computers in the world, for a price. Apple could make computers that cained anything out there on the market, but you would pay BIG bucks for them. I think Apple should be commended for producing the machines they do.

    As for advertising, show me ONE company that does not bend the facts in their favour when doing public demostrations and tv comercials.

  • I am particularly humored by Apple announcements on Slashdot because no matter how much people hate/love Apple and their products nothing, and I mean NOTHING gets a bunch of computer geeks talking like a company who is really doing something to change the industry, especially this company.
  • its processor humbles the
    Pentiums in office PCs four times its price


    Sorry, but I can't even find an office PC that costs $4800, unless its a server. And while that 266Mhz G3 might be faster than the 266Mhz Cyrix in a $400 PC, I suspect it would be sadly embarrased by a 450Mhz PII. Yeah, they got pretty colors, but if they want to maintain some semblance of credibility, they should install some bullshit filters on their marketing dept. output!

  • A Celeron 333 system from Dell with comparable features (except for bigger 8.4 GByte hard drive) costs $1268. Congratulations to Apple for bringing the price of a Mac down to the same price as a PC, but I certainly wouldn't call these puppies less expensive than a PC!
  • The quote I questioned was in reference to the iMac at $1199. There is a significant leap from "a G3 400 is twice as fast as a Pentium II 450" to "a G3 266 is faster that the Dual PII 450 system you could buy for $4800". I love the Power PC and I'm sure it is faster than a Pentium II at a given clock rate. However, I see no evidence the the disk, video, or bus are any faster than a comparable PC, and the video is slower than most PCs. Which means in real life, you should see little difference between an iMac and a comparably priced PC. I like Apple and like to see them succeed. I just have a problem with them trying to bullshit me. Certainly, you misunderstood my statements; what exactly in it do you consider FUD? What part of is is less accurate than the Apple Marketing hype?
  • What planet have you been living on? The Celeron 300A, 333, 366, and 400 ALL have onboard cache. Which is not to say that it's a better processor than a power PC (it isn't). Next time, check your facts before you make an ass of yourself in public.
  • That's based on a Dell Dimension V 333Mhz Celeron. Yes, I added the 10/100 ethernet card, and the monitor was included. I reduced the RAM from the standard 64MB to 32MB to equal the iMac. Unfortunately, I couldn't get a disk any smaller than 8.4 GBytes. Oh, and of course the PC has a floppy drive! And yes, saying a 333 Mhz Celeron is "comparable" is probably cheating, but I haven't seen any benchmark results that I trust yet. Anyway, the point was that the iMac and the PC are approximately equivalent in price/performance, therefore it is misleading to keep implying the the iMac is somehow a better value than a PC.
  • You're looking at "Multi", the most lovable robotic girl to come along since Vicki from the 80's sitcom "Small Wonder". She comes from a Windows 95 video game called "To Heart". She is EXTREMELY popular in Japan, particularly among geeks (otakus ^_^). The idea is, I guess, that BeOS is so wonderful that even Multi's CPU runs it. I wonder if that means that Leaf will be doing a BeOS port of "To Heart". If so, then that would be Totally Cool(tm).

    The Japanese text reads "BeOS hayatsu pari Maruchi de!" My Japanese is Not Good. I guess it means "BeOS is fast enough for Multi". Anyone wanna help out?

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