Apple's New Mouse Retains Flawed Charging Design 119
Apple has maintained the controversial bottom-charging design in its new $79-$99 USB-C Magic Mouse, released alongside the new iMac Tuesday, despite years of customer criticism. The port location, unchanged since 2015, renders the mouse unusable while charging.
Eh (Score:1)
Doesn't 5 minutes of charging give you a week of usage? Cue the outrage.
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Doesn't 5 minutes of charging give you a week of usage? Cue the outrage.
Not in my experience. It takes about 30 minutes to charge.
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Doesn't 5 minutes of charging give you a week of usage? Cue the outrage.
Not in my experience. It takes about 30 minutes to charge.
Sorry... I meant to say "to last a week". It takes over an hour to fully charge.
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I mostly WFH so mine sits upside down with a cable sticking out of it's butt 27 days a month looking really stupid in the process
All this, simply so they can force users to have wireless mice, seems, like I dunno, they fired Johnny Ives (ok, he "decided to retire", right) they can make sane decisions at some point
hmmm.. (Score:3)
The battery in the $5 mouse from Dollarama that I am using has been running for several months on a dollar store Panasonic Battery.
Re: hmmm.. (Score:3)
I honestly want someone from Apple to explain to me why Chinese knockoffs smart watches allow notifications to go to my phone and my watch simultaneously as well as last >10 days on a charge, yet my supposedly superior Apple Watch (at 4x the cost) lasts barely a day and doesnâ(TM)t allow for this.
The only reason I use the Apple Watch instead is because my cheap Chinese knockoff for $27 didnâ(TM)t track swimming.
Ridiculous.
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The battery in the $5 mouse from Dollarama that I am using has been running for several months on a dollar store Panasonic Battery.
Batteries... why would I need one of those, wired mouse FTW.
br I had a Gigabyte gaming mouse die on me earlier this year, lasted a good 15 years. I can't go back to a standard optical mouse but bought a cheap-o Dell laser mouse for £15. Even for gaming I've got a Steel Series I paid less than £40 for on offer. Who's daft enough to spend $100 on a crappy mouse... oh, it's Apple, never mind.
And that is why.. (Score:4, Interesting)
This just a stupid form over function decision to the detriment of its users.
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This just a stupid form over function decision to the detriment of its users.
IMO you've just described a significant percentage of Apple's product line.
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Why the hell can ATVs not set up a mesh net
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The LISA and Mac mice were much better than the Mouse Systems mouse and Microsoft Mouse which were available for PCs at the time.
>My first computer was a TRS-80 M1 clone
My first was a KIM-1.
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Sinclairs, Kaypros, Osbournes, Ataris, Commodores, Amstrads, PDP 11-23, Polycorp (made in New Zealand) etc etc etc etc and even a couple of analog computers
I have a robotic arm for the Sinclair ZX81 and a whole pile of other rare items.
Trying to see if I can get my mitts onto an early Zilog Z80 development board
Got into the computers from reading Practical Electronics (IIRC) that talked about the UK101 , a Ohio Scientific
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I pretty much agree with your comment, but an anecdote might create a little understanding of what goes on.
3 decades ago I worked for a "Macintosh Accelerator" company, the leading one, which got into making Mac Clones. Yes, they did legally exist for a short time.
At MacWorld, the company's behemoth Mac Clone was set out on a trade-show pedestal for us booth babes (heh) to run our mouths about for 3 days. We'd been lent RAM to fully fill the slots, which in the day would've cost as much as a starter home. W
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Pointless whining (Score:2, Insightful)
Charge it at night. Use it for months. Charge it one night.
Of all the massive things to complain about when it comes to Apple, this has to be the most ridiculous overblown one.
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Which night should people charge it? There's no battery meter.
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There is a web server inside the mouse which will tell you how much charge is remaining. You can also download the app which will send you an iMessage on the night it needs to be charged.
Re:Pointless whining (Score:5, Insightful)
I don't understand how this helps when the mouse is dead and needs recharging? You are trying to justify stupidity. Why would you put a charging port underneath when it could very easily be placed in the front?
It's like saying why even bother with seat belts and airbags since you can see the accident coming so just hit the breaks.
It's a terrible design in functionality and don't get me started on ergonomics. The design reminds me of this skit; https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6bhrBdgYTV8
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Why would you put a charging port underneath when it could very easily be placed in the front?
There may be a technical reason.. they choose to build a charging circuit that does not support charging while the unit is operating and they want it that way - in this case if the port was in an accessible position: People might think their mouse is broken, since they plug their mouse in and cannot operate the mouse while it is in charging mode.
Having the mouse powered on causes an additional load on the battery
Re:Pointless whining (Score:5, Insightful)
There may be a technical reason.. they choose to build a charging circuit that does not support charging while the unit is operating and they want it that way - in this case if the port was in an accessible position: People might think their mouse is broken, since they plug their mouse in and cannot operate the mouse while it is in charging mode.
No there isn't. Every other single wireless mouse on earth manages to be used while charging. This excuse is pure mental gymnastics.
The 'load' of the mouse sensor and wireless circuitry is measurable in the milliamps, and the charging input in amps. There neither needs to be any load on the battery while charging it as the USB input can handle the load, nor any issues with damaging the battery if loading it instead of taking operational power directly from the USB connection.
There is absolutely no justifiable technical reason for doing this. It's just dumb.
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1) It would be the only device they make that does this.
2) It's not powered off. It's still responding to BT endpoint queries.
You could move the goalposts on 2 and say, "well maybe they just can't handle the additional load of the capacitive surface and the emitter/sensor", but hopefully the need to move those goalposts will help you understand your hypothesis doesn't hold a gram of water.
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It's not powered off. It's still responding to BT endpoint queries.
hm. Safety feature, so the mouse is not in the user's palm when the battery overheats during charging and blows up in a fiery mess.
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It's not powered off. It's still responding to BT endpoint queries.
hm. Safety feature, so the mouse is not in the user's palm when the battery overheats during charging and blows up in a fiery mess.
And yet, the Magic Trackpad can be used while plugged in. I think the "strain on the cable" theory is the most plausible, but even that is still pretty lame. If Logitech could pull it off [amazon.com], surely Apple can.
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And yet, the Magic Trackpad can be used while plugged in.
And the Magic Keyboard. And your iPhone. And... every single wireless device that Apple makes, except for this.
I think the "strain on the cable" theory is the most plausible,
Couldn't disagree more. It's laughably implausible from where I'm standing.
If Logitech could pull it off [amazon.com], surely Apple can.
You mean every single wireless mouse manufacturer on the planet.
There's a more reasonable explanation- hold a magic mouse, and ask yourself "where would you put the hole, without screwing up its very pretty lines?".
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The reason is aesthetics.
If you look at the magic mouse, they'd have to leave a big gaping hole somewhere in its smooth lines. They don't want to.
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It's like saying why even bother with seat belts and airbags since you can see the accident coming so just hit the breaks.
Did you loose your mind? I think you left it over their. It is rediculous.
Re:Pointless whining (Score:4, Insightful)
There is a web server inside the mouse which will tell you how much charge is remaining. You can also download the app which will send you an iMessage on the night it needs to be charged.
... You think this is an acceptable substitute for a simple battery level indicator?
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I don't know anything about a web server, but when I wrote the Linux kernel driver for the Magic Mouse, it used a very simple USB HID packet to report battery level. I haven't used one with my Macbook (which I got long after I wrote that driver), but the Macbook usually shows battery level for Bluetooth-attached devices, so I expect it does the same for Apple's peripherals.
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> There is a web server inside the mouse
Good to know. I'll buy another mouse without IP stack.
Re:Pointless whining (Score:5, Informative)
At least be informed: the battery level of any Apple wireless device is visible in the Bluetooth menu/settings. It's been there since... well, at least for the many years I've had a magic mouse.
There's also a pretty visible notification that pops up telling you it's at 10%, which still lasts for a long time on these devices.
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As someone who is informed: Precisely zero people are regularly going into their Bluetooth menu to check the battery settings, and no 10% does not last a long time on these devices. If it happens at the start of a busy day you may not make it to the end. Bonus points if you remember the time between the warning and the end of the day, only to find the day after that your mouse is flat.
That low battery warning is something that a normal consumer with a standard consumer friendly mouse would use as an indicat
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I should also add that at least the low battery warning is battery in MacOS than Windows. Windows checks the battery status and gives a low battery warning on Bluetooth wakeup. Mice spend a lot of their time asleep. That means as I am typing this on my windows machine if my mouse was below 5% it goes to sleep and when I reach over to move it it reconnects and I get a popup saying battery low. And I'll get it again in 20 seconds, and then again 20 seconds later. Literally a nagging fucking most annoying noti
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If you're on a Mac you'll get a notification when it's getting low and that you should charge. *DAYS* in advance.
You're not going to be surprised.
As people have said elsewhere, there are actual things to complain about with these mice for most people. Comfort (for instance, it's not great for my carpal tunnel, I much prefer the trackpads personally), the way the alternate buttons work, all sorts of things. But the charging thing? It's overblown.
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Overblown? Sure. But it's also the easiest thing in the physical design to change. They could very easily keep the shell (minus the new hole for the port obviously) and shift around the internals all while sacrificing nothing, not even form or beauty or whatever they pretend to care about. Either Apple's hardware designers are naturally bad, or Apple leadership forces them to be bad.
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However- that doesn't mean criticism over its stupidity is unwarranted.
Because let's face it- it is stupid.
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Every night? When you put down work for the day, just leave it plugged in - I do the same to my ANC headphones, I plug it in to charge when I'm done for the day, and take it off charging the next day when I start my day.
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You literally have to turn the fucking thing upside down, and leave it that way, to charge it. And ultimately- just why?
Why can't they, like every other fucking company on this planet, put the charging port in a reasonable spot.
It's fucking stupid.
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Why can't they, like every other fucking company on this planet, put the charging port in a reasonable spot.
Or just go one better and have it use batteries. The single AA in my ancient Logitech lasts for months.
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Goofy! (Score:2)
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To each their own, I guess. I don't like lightweight mice, or keyboards. Not only do I actively use it, but my Magic Mouse is the lighter of the two mice I actively use. The mouse I use on my PC (Logitech G502) even without the add-in weights is heavier than the Magic Mouse.
The one thing I really think Apple got right was making the whole surface of the mouse active. Finger scrolling in whatever direction you need, while simultaneously moving the pointer with your wrist, is really nice.
This is a purposeful design decision (Score:2)
They don't want folks to use it while it's charging. It's a wireless mouse so they designed it to be non-functional while it's plugged in.
Users might have to adapt a little bit. Reasonable people can disagree with the decision. But people who write about technological design should not be entirely confounded by this 10 years after the launch.
Re: This is a purposeful design decision (Score:1)
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What part of "Apple wants its products to be used in the way it thinks all users will want it to be" moto of Apple did you miss in the memo? That's the story with practically every Apple product. The last Apple product I bought was in 2016 and was a used 2011 Macbook Air because of the form factor and portability, and I immediately installed Parrot Linux on it without even booting it into MacOS. Some of their products are pretty nice if you can circumvent their O/S on them.
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"But I urgently want to use the mouse, and I don't care if it is still connected to a socket!" Then buy another mouse to your liking.
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It is brilliant design. It does exactly what Apple is intending: Don't use your mouse while charging. Don't damage your charging port by pulling on a cable. Keep your mouse free from any entanglement while working.
"But I urgently want to use the mouse, and I don't care if it is still connected to a socket!" Then buy another mouse to your liking.
If your charge port is going to be damaged by mousing around with the cable attached, it wasn't made very well in the first place, IMO.
That said, who actually buys these things? I don't know anyone who uses a mouse. Trackpads are so much more user-friendly for pretty much all purposes, and they don't have any problem being used with a cable connected, because like all reasonable input devices, they don't move around.
Mice have always sucked, whether you're talking about roller ball mice or optical mice. T
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But what I don't understand is you like a trackpad, I find it hopeless and prefer the red clit (Trackpoint) of this Thinkpad.
To each his own
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Trackpads are so much more user-friendly for pretty much all purposes
Touchpads are fine for lots of things, but they're absolutely awful for tasks that require speed and precision. For example, I wouldn't want to use a touchpad for vector graphics, 3D-modeling, or page layout. I imagine that video games are probably easier to play with a mouse as well.
I've also occasionally been frustrated by drag and drop tasks. Multi-touch makes the once impossible possible, but it still feels awkward. Text selection is such a problem that I almost exclusively use the keyboard.
That said,
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my gut says that if I were in charge, the product would have been cancelled outright
It's great that all of your needs are best served with a touchpad, but not everyone is so fortunate. The humble mouse still has its place and will likely be with us for many years to come.
I'm not saying that nobody prefers mice. I just can't see enough people spending $80 for a mouse that offers only limited benefit over an $8 mouse with double scroll wheels to make it worth the engineering resources to redesign the thing, particularly given that it would have zero sales to Windows users or tablet users or phone users, making it a tiny niche of a niche of a niche in the world of computing.
Last year, Apple sold about 22 million Macs, and a whopping 9% (+/-) are not laptops. Very few laptop
Re: This is a purposeful design decision (Score:4, Funny)
Don't damage your charging port by pulling on a cable. Did you have a straight face while typing that?
Re: This is a purposeful design decision (Score:2)
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"The port location... renders the mouse unusable while charging." They don't want folks to use it while it's charging. It's a wireless mouse so they designed it to be non-functional while it's plugged in. Users might have to adapt a little bit. Reasonable people can disagree with the decision. But people who write about technological design should not be entirely confounded by this 10 years after the launch.
When literally every other wireless mouse in existence has this one figured out, it's completely valid to complain about a crap design no matter how long after the launch. I have a super cheap wireless mouse that can plug in (at the front of the mouse) and still be used just as a wired mouse while it recharges. I don't see any detriment to the mouse or the user in this design. Apple just doesn't like seeing ports on their products while in use. Which may make sense to a designer, but designers that aren't a
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When literally every other wireless mouse in existence has this one figured out, it's completely valid to complain about a crap design no matter how long after the launch. I have a super cheap wireless mouse that can plug in (at the front of the mouse) and still be used just as a wired mouse while it recharges
Right next to my Apple wireless mouse is an Apple wireless keyboard. When I get the "Keyboard battery very low" message, I just plug it in for an hour while I keep on working. Why can't my mouse work the same way?
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My PC laptop has had the same wireless mouse that I charge and use while charging for almost 10 years, which is about 9 years past what Apple wants you to own that device for.
Speaking as a MBP owner.
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"people who write about technological design should not be entirely confounded by this 10 years after the launch.
Maybe they should if it continues to be confounding after 10 years. Maybe they should if it is actually MORE confounding after 10 years of iteration and hindsight.
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This is thunderously stupid attempt at justification.
Why wouldn't they want folks to use it while charging? Are their engineers so incompetent they can't make a mouse that can handle charging while in use, like every other rechargeable wireless mouse does? The users want to use the mouse while charging, there is zero technical justification for not making that possible.
They aren't confounded by how Apple wants this to be not used, they are confounded by how fucking stupid this design was in the first place,
Apple is f*ing losing it (Score:2)
Doesn't surprise me (Score:2)
"Looks" appears to be very important for Apple products. Having an open hole would be considered ugly. But, to be fair, I looked up picture of the mouse and putting a hole on the lower part of it where it can continue to be used while plugged in doesn't appear to be practical. Does it tell you that it's about to run out of juice so that you can charge it at the end of the day for the next few months?
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"Looks" appears to be very important for Apple products. Having an open hole would be considered ugly.
Perhaps we should talk about how it "looks" to have your mouse sitting there on its side, rendered unusable because the charging cable is plugged into the bottom... while you're sitting there, having to use a second mouse.
I had a rechargeable bluetooth travel mouse 15+ years ago that would let me continue to use it while it was charging.
Not surprised (Score:2)
Why am I not surprised? Apple has always been a design company. Form over function in pretty much all their design. The only reason to put the USB port in that location is because they think it it looks better like that.
Mitch Hedberg (Score:2)
Escalator temporarily stairs - sorry for the convenience.
All rechargeable mouses suck (Score:2)
Let me swap the damn battery. And use AAs not AAAs. Same with game controllers.
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Looking at the dimensions for this mouse, it wouldn't be able to fit a AAA in there even if you lubed it with Vaseline or grease.
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I know. Technically yes. What I was alluding to, however, was that it's a tiny mouse and I hate it just for that. My hands are about average size (stop the jokes, please!) and that mouse would get lost under my hand. My current Razor Naga has a whopping 1.7 inch height. Anything smaller than that, for me, becomes uncomfortable to use for an extended period of time.
Re: All rechargeable mouses suck (Score:2)
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The very first version of the Magic Mouse (2009-2015) did actually use two AA batteries.
The Mobee Magic Charger replaces the batteries in that model with a rechargeable battery pack that allows the mouse to be charged wirelessly through induction. I find it weird that Apple hasn't copied that for the Magic Mouse, considering that its phones, watches and earbuds to that.
Get the old Apple mouse then (Score:2)
it had 2 AAA batteries.
Meh (Score:2)
It's odd... (Score:2)
I bought one of those Jellycomb wireless trackballs a few years ago, and I've never charged it.
And yet it just seems to keep working. Almost like magic. I figure give it a few more years and I'll have to find the USB charging cable, but from an EE perspective, I'm honestly impressed.
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Sometimes I wonder if some of those trackballs have a way to scarf some small amounts of energy when moved around, but not so much that it gives perceptible resistance.
For me, at work, the generic Dell mice work well enough, assuming they have a scroll wheel. For home/gaming, a Bad Dragon mouse is relatively inexpensive, and once you set up the macros and buttons, you don't need the included software. Their MMO mouse is pretty solid and has a nice DPI control.
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It's an overall Apple plan to return to... (Score:2)
Can we convert mouse motion into electricity? (Score:3)
When you use a mouse, a common gesture is to quickly snap your wrist back to reposition the mouse and continue moving the pointer. Always wondered whether some internal mechanism couldn't be derived to capture some of that motion and convert into a trickle charge.
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When you use a mouse, a common gesture is to quickly snap your wrist back to reposition the mouse and continue moving the pointer. Always wondered whether some internal mechanism couldn't be derived to capture some of that motion and convert into a trickle charge.
OK, Reagan. We're not falling for that again!
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The cost is resistance to the motion. People can be very sensitive to the mass of their mouse. Having one that resists rapid movements, even by a very tiny amount, could be pretty unpalatable. That being said, there are probably plenty of people who wouldn't care... So the next question becomes- is it really worthwhile? I'd love to know the answer to that.
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Any harvesting of energy to charge your mouse ultimately results in that energy being provided by your wrist, i.e. increasing potential wrist strain. Additionally most such energy harvesting mechanisms rely on some form of mass/spring to generate the charge. Having such a dynamic component in your mouse will also affect your pointing accuracy.
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It would make the mouse feel weird to move, but it could be done. It wouldn't produce a useful amount of energy though.
I use a NiMH cell in mine. When it runs out I just swap it for a fully charged one and put it in the charger. Eneloop and IKEA cells stay charged for many, many years, so just change them when they run down and throw them in a drawer.
Apple used to make great mice. (Score:2)
Then Jobs came back and while he deservers all the credit in the world for making Apple the power house it is now, it was under his direction that we got th
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Back in the 90s they had one of the best options on the market, the Desktop Bus Mouse II. The placement of the ball, yes a ball, was position towards the front making cursor control very precise for the time. I could draw with this mouse and would switch between it and my Wacom for vector stuff. The overall shape of the mouse was comfortable to use.
Then Jobs came back and while he deservers all the credit in the world for making Apple the power house it is now, it was under his direction that we got the hockey-puck mouse -- which at least where I worked quickly got replaced as I'm pretty sure it instantly caused Carpal Tunnel Syndrome, and then later the magic mouse. Awful mice IMO. I would not be surprised to find out that the vast majority of hockey puck mice ended up in landfills or crippled their users.
+1. I used an ADB Mouse II with an ADB-to-USB adapter with my desktop machine up until I stopped using desktop machines.
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The position of the ball is one of those innovations that have been lost in "modern" technology.
The centre of gravity and the point of pointing is the same point: and it is right in-between the user's fingertips.
It was actually not found by Apple, but by (what later became) the design house IDEO, in their work for Microsoft to design the 1987 "Microsoft Mouse" [ideo.com], colloquially called the "Soap bar mouse".
The designers had done a lot of user testing, and found that the new ball position had a measurable effect
Car can't be driven while fueling (Score:2)
I mean is that next? Once and awhile to let your mouse charge isn't a big deal, especially since you can charge it for five minutes and get enough use out of it to plug it in that night to charge it. In addition you have a ton of ways to tell how much power it has left...so..you know, be an adult and charge it before it's dead?
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There's a valid reason you can't refill the explosive fuel of your vehicle in motion.
Now military pilots? They can. You, though? No.
But the real analogy you were looking for was:
What's next? Stopping your light rail/subway train to charge it?!?!
Can the stupid design be mitigated against? Of course it can. But why the fuck do we have to?
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Did you really need a /sarcasm at the end of the title?
You know what's stupid? People needing an entire redesign because they're too fucking stupid or lazy to sometimes put their device on the charge. Special entitled twits.
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Did you really need a /sarcasm at the end of the title?
Your post doesn't seem sarcastic... And your reply makes it seem even less so.
You know what's stupid? People needing an entire redesign because they're too fucking stupid or lazy to sometimes put their device on the charge. Special entitled twits.
No. That's how capitalism works. If a product sucks, people complain and/or don't buy it, and it gets fixed.
A mouse, in the year of our fucking lord 2024, that must be plopped upside down and unusable while charging, is the very fucking epitome of fucking stupid.
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No, you can't try that one, I mean good job on trying to twist it but no one things that someone would really complain that you can't fuel your car while driving.
I'll teach you how capitalism works. People are buying it.
You defeated your own arguments. Just whining about it does nothing if you bought it anyway. Maybe, YOU didn't buy it, but you don't matter, everyone else is buying it.
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No, you can't try that one, I mean good job on trying to twist it but no one things that someone would really complain that you can't fuel your car while driving.
Your mouse isn't a car, you stupid fucker.
Would someone complain if you couldn't use your phone while charging? Your laptop?
You know what the difference between a car and a phone or laptop is? One of those things have nothing the fuck to do with a mouse.
I'll teach you how capitalism works. People are buying it.
I'm pretty sure you couldn't teach someone how to count to 10.
You defeated your own arguments. Just whining about it does nothing if you bought it anyway. Maybe, YOU didn't buy it, but you don't matter, everyone else is buying it.
Everyone else? lol.
My entire wing of work uses Macs. Not one of us use that stupid fucking thing.
We do use the trackpad though- it's pretty damn nice.
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Now you're trying to take it literal? At first you tried to pretend it wasn't sarcasm, and now you're trying to make it literal?
Are you too fucking dumb to have a discussion and just need to rely on twisting things to make you sound clever? Go take your entire wing of mac users and fuck off. Not the first time someone has told you this, won't be the last.
Maybe... (Score:2)
Obvious Fix (Score:2)
They just needed to make a small charging dock that you sit the mouse on when not in use. This is an obvious fix if you are married to the stupid design of that comically small and useless mouse they make. The thing is nothing but a hand cramp waiting to happen, I vastly prefer the trackpad.
Logitech mice last for a year on a single battery (Score:2)
For years, I resisted wireless mice and keyboards because of having to replace batteries. But I don't mind doing it once a year. No need for recharging.
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yes but it doesn't have a touch pad on top of it. I think it has a speaker to make a fake clicking sound too but the biggest thing in it's power budget is an EMF emitter that promotes a feeling of smugness in it's user.
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Logitech doesn't have a touchpad, that's true. I've used Apple's fancy touchpad mouse quite a bit, and I find the feature to be more marketing hype than anything, so they can call it a "magic" mouse.
Apple certainly does know how to promote a feeling of smugness in its customers, that is very true.
Why not use wireless charging? (Score:2)
It seems like a pretty obvious thing to do. Make a mouse pad that will charge the mouse wirelessly.
Little Brick is my name for it.... (Score:2)
EU (Score:2)