'The Apple Vision Pro's eBay Prices Are Making Me Sad' 148
An anonymous reader shares a report: I paid a lot of money for the privilege of getting an Apple Vision Pro brand-new in February. All-in, with optical inserts and taxes, I financed a little over $3,900 for the 256GB version of the headset. A day or so ago, I made a mistake that I'm sure many early adopters are familiar with: I looked up how much it's been selling for on eBay. On Wednesday, a 1TB Vision Pro, complete with all the included gear, Apple's fluffy $200 travel case, $500 AppleCare Plus, and claimed to have been "worn maybe about an hour" sold for $3,200 after 21 bids. The listed shipping estimate was $20.30. Brand new, that combination is $5,007.03 on Apple's site for me.
Another eBay listing, this one with my headset's configuration (but sans optical inserts) went for just $2,600 -- again with most, if not all, of the included accessories. Several other 256GB and 512GB models sold for around that amount this week. The story is no different over on Swappa, a popular reselling site among Apple users. Bloomberg News, over the weekend: In related news, employees at some Apple retail stores are now being asked to fill out surveys after giving Vision Pro demonstrations to potential buyers. Apple wants to know if they were able to close a sale and get any feedback from the would-be buyer. Apple also wants to ensure employees are following the 20-minute demo script.
As I wrote last week, Vision Pro demand has dropped considerably at many Apple stores. One retail employee says they haven't seen one Vision Pro purchase in weeks and that the number of returns equaled the device's sales in the first month that it was available.
Another eBay listing, this one with my headset's configuration (but sans optical inserts) went for just $2,600 -- again with most, if not all, of the included accessories. Several other 256GB and 512GB models sold for around that amount this week. The story is no different over on Swappa, a popular reselling site among Apple users. Bloomberg News, over the weekend: In related news, employees at some Apple retail stores are now being asked to fill out surveys after giving Vision Pro demonstrations to potential buyers. Apple wants to know if they were able to close a sale and get any feedback from the would-be buyer. Apple also wants to ensure employees are following the 20-minute demo script.
As I wrote last week, Vision Pro demand has dropped considerably at many Apple stores. One retail employee says they haven't seen one Vision Pro purchase in weeks and that the number of returns equaled the device's sales in the first month that it was available.
isn't that just how used things work? (Score:5, Insightful)
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Re:isn't that just how used things work? (Score:5, Interesting)
It's a solution looking for a problem.
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> reflects on the lack of utility for many many people.
It's a solution looking for a problem.
That's like calling a 100" tv a "solution looking for a problem", which is basically a compliment for something that is obviously an expensive toy for rich people. I'm not pretending it's a solution to literally anything. It's a big screen, it's really cool, and I like it, and I'm fortunate enough to play with these things.
Will it have mass market appeal? No.. a $3500 head mounted display will not ... duuuuuhhh.......,
Re: isn't that just how used things work? (Score:2)
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except tech is suppose to get cheaper as time goes on, i remember my first cd r writer was $400 and now they can be bought for under $50.
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except tech is suppose to get cheaper as time goes on, i remember my first cd r writer was $400 and now they can be bought for under $50.
But this is New Tech.
That temporarily Resets the "CostvClock" a bit.
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I don't know what a sane price is for this. If it were a laptop, $3200 is a great deal for a lightly used 5k original device. I think that reflects on the lack of utility for many many people. Its possible you contrarian reading my post have some use for it that can't be met with any other device. I don't know who you are or what your needs are but I'm also not in charge of you. Go do you're thing and report back how cool it is that you've done it.
While you bait some contrarian into a contrived utility story, why are you talking about utility and VR headsets at all? It's not a something on the kitchen countertop or workshop wall has to go to make room type of decision, it's 110% entertainment.
It's like deciding between a 85" tv or a 55" tv, you don't need either. "But I can extend my work computer's display to it" is bullshit there too, but so is acting like a bigass display is something one buys for utility.
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Apple devices tend to retain their value very well. It's even a selling point to some buyers that while they may pay more for a Mac or iPhone upfront they're likely to be able to get quite a bit of that back by selling used or trading in.
The Vision Pro looks to be an exception to this, perhaps because the price was way too high to begin with, or perhaps because demand is simply low for such a device.
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Cars, even. I think they're returning to reality, but sheesh used car prices have been silly.
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This was my thought as well.. There is a certain cache to buying a 'new' thing. Its like buying a new car, you get all the window glossy and what not; maybe its a pride thing, you will get some 'attention' from the deal ship for a time, maybe a 'free' car wash membership etc. Above all you can likely drive it off the lot that day.
However we all know you can probably find a low mileage example of a very similarly appointed vehicle with very likely identical power plant/drive line that is last years model s
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There is a certain cache to buying a 'new' thing. Its like buying a new car, you get all the window glossy and what not; maybe its a pride thing
Yes.. Also other things you tend to get with brand new electronics, which aren't necessarily so much with cars:
1. Intact manufacturer warranty. Some Applecare warranties may be transferrable.. most sellers won't bother. Apple may be better than others in this area though; with most products: your second hand buyer will have no rights offered under the manufac
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There is a certain cache to buying a 'new' thing.
Cachet.
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Used Apple products less than 6 months old usually retain 85% of their retail value, so selling for close to half of retail, especially for something where an older model is not available yet, is really stunning. This was supposed to be a flagship "everyone has got to have one" product that was going to sell out, and sell for more than retail on the secondary market. By apple standards somebody is going to lose their job over this.
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It never was going to be. It's clearly targeted at very high-end users and devs from the very beginning for this unit. Which is obviously an experiment for early adopted.
$5000 is a price tag 90% of the population just can't pay for something like this.
Give it 6 months, a year, maybe 2 years; If the product line doesn't die then there has to be a $1000 model, and eventually a less than $300 version.
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This was supposed to be a flagship "everyone has got to have one" product
No, it's just a name, but putting "Pro" in the name was 100% intentional and Apple's way of letting you know, they know, it's over the top.
I'm sure they missed their sales targets, I'm not sure they will release a regular, what .. $2000 version now? But that would have been the one they'd hoped for mass appeal.
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It doesn't help that they nerfed the one killer app, extra monitors for your Macbook.
As it stands you can only see your Macbook screen, that's it. No second monitor, no screen sharing with other people not wearing a Vision Pro (the physical display on the laptop goes black). The only thing I saw people excited about was being able to have multiple screens for working while travelling, but you can't do that.
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Does anyone expect an electric device of any OEM to hold its value after being opened?
Generally 50% of the value is lost just by being an open box. Owners may be hoping to keep more, but it's unreasonable to expect much more than that for a >2 month old product.
Outside times when used parts are in unusually high demand - such as the Playstation 5, which never seems to be in stock, so the used prices that should be a couple hundred $$ are instead inflated to more than the sealed brand new from the manuf
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Does anyone expect an electric device of any OEM to hold its value after being opened?
Generally 50% of the value is lost just by being an open box. Owners may be hoping to keep more, but it's unreasonable to expect much more than that for a >2 month old product.
This is simply not true. While there are some cases where opening the box will lose you 50% of the value, that's by far the outlier *unless* you're talking about something that goes on sale for a significant discount - which apple products do not. Then your starting point for resale would be the lowest on-sale retail price...which, yah, can push some stuff down significantly. If we're talking microwaves, ok. Phones and laptops and the like? nyet.
TL;DR - A quick google says Macs depreciate about 17% at
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Lol. (Score:3)
Re:Lol. (Score:5, Funny)
I financed
LOL.. Facepalm.
$3900
LOL.. Facepalm.
Apple
LOL.. Facepalm. Congratulations. You hit the trifecta of stupidity.
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For that amount you can finance a really nice mountain bike or a really low-end motorcycle and experience reality instead of virtual reality.
But I guess everyone has different tastes and different ways to dispose of income. Hey, at least they didn't buy a boat or a classic car. Those can not only drain away 10X that amount of money, they also can take up all your free time too.
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And I own a boat. Sans the (according to my wife, superfluous) electronics, I've only got about $3k into it, boat motor and trailer. It's about as old as I am, but I've rebuilt it bow to stern, so it looks nice enough and serves me well. Other than the 5$/year in gearcase oil, an occasional $30 water pump, and a few sets of spark plugs, I don't spend hardly any money on maintenance. I spend more on the beer I drink while on it than I do on the gas to run it. To be fair to OP's comment, though, it was a
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My friends complain about the marina fees and haul-out fees. It sounds like an expensive hobby. Maybe not quite as bad as guitars though, where rational thought has completely evaporated.
Re: Lol. (Score:2)
Yeah it's not maintenance I hear complaints about. It's the slip fees. I've heard the number $20/ft/mo.
A hammer in search of a nail (Score:5, Informative)
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Don't finance Experimental electronics. (Score:5, Insightful)
If you have 5k burning a hole in your pocket and you wouldn't' notice if it disappeared from your bank account, sure do it if thats what you enjoy.
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Re:Don't finance Experimental electronics. (Score:5, Insightful)
Sheesh....
We hear about all the kids with college debt....are these the same ones racking up huge extra debt by financing "gaming rigs" or things like AVP?
I think even in junior high school, we had one class that showed us budgeting, writing checks (yes I'm old)...etc.
I understand that it's easy and common to get into CC debt...I did once too, but not so horrible I couldn't get out of it.
I have huge CC limits, but I just charge and pay off fully each month.
When I want something BIG...I enjoy saving for it and researching the living fuck out of it to make sure I can get the best I can afford and be exactly what I want with no buyers remorse.....
Am I the only one that does this anymore or something....?
Re:Don't finance Experimental electronics. (Score:5, Insightful)
This is nothing new.
40 years ago, I had friends blowing big chunks of money they didn't have on things like new high-end stereo equipment, scuba gear and souping up their cars. They went through the same home economics classes and go the same parental advice as everyone else, but they just chose to ignore it. I'm sure the exact same thing is happening now to a similar subset of the population.
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Damned kids with their pricey avocado toast. Everything was perfectly fine until they showed up.
Re:Don't finance Experimental electronics. (Score:5, Insightful)
Fellow oldie here, waiting for the avocado toast remark. I know you're just kidding though trying to make point.
You and I both know, if your grew up in the same decades I did, toast has nothing to do with. If I bought a house, say in a nice suburb of Toronto for 92,000 in 1992, and adjusting for inflation etc it should now be worth about $285,000, so there's no logical reason I should be able to list it at 2.09 million, but I could.
It's pure greed driving that gap. Real wages haven't risen in the US since 1970 adjusted for inflation while productivity has grown 400%. If the average US wage earner had gotten the same raises that CEOs make, the average US worker would earn $160,000/year and not mid-40s. And the average percentage of CEO to average worker pay wouldn't be over 300x instead of the 20x it was in the 1970s.
But I agree, avocado toast, seriously? What are these youngsters thinking? Peanut butter is fine.
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I'm totally with you. I have NO debt that isn't a future investment. But, I learned all that entirely on my own.
Having grown up in the USA in the early 90's, I can tell you that there were no financial management courses in either my elementary or high schools. You have to learn all this stuff from your parents (or in my case, by myself).
I believe every high school should include a course on how to buy and finance a house, and the basics of taxes. The only reason why I waited until my late 20's to inves
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Anyone reading this, please please do not finance a car's worth of money on some new gadget you're not even sure if you have a use for. I've had many friends do similar. Friends who took out tech loans from the university at 9% interest for a new gaming rig that was outdated in 3 years, and are still paying it back. Friends that would get behind on utility bills so they could get the brand new Gaming system. Just don't. Having entertainment and fun should be available for all, but do it with in your budget for heavens sake.
If you have 5k burning a hole in your pocket and you wouldn't' notice if it disappeared from your bank account, sure do it if thats what you enjoy.
This was exactly my thought when I RTFS, financing is for things you need to live your life, not toys.
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At least things like a boat, jetski, motorcycle and similar can last decades if you take care of them.
Electronics much less so as support can be dropped on a whim, hardware specs can't keep up with software/firmware updates, or the items is simply not repairable because it's sealed. Almost everything in consumer electronics will not last much beyond the financing terms if you take a loan, worse if you put it on a credit card and make minimum payments.
Re:Don't finance Experimental electronics. (Score:4, Insightful)
I disagree. Paying 50% or more on top of the sticker price is wrong. The whole finance industry is a racket designed to extract money from those who can least afford the extra cost.
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"Outdated in 3 years" Or as other people call it "Enjoyed it for 3 years playing cutting edge games"
Look. We get it, not everyone is rich or has disposable income to blow on hobbies. But there are plenty of people who get actual enjoyment out of early adopting and playing with tech. Don't judge what brings other people joy, and guess what, it's those people like us who allow those people like you to get a bargain on second hand 3 year old gaming PC gear. ... You struck a nerve with me, I today sold an RTX20
Re: Don't finance Experimental electronics. (Score:2)
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But there are plenty of people who get actual enjoyment out of early adopting and playing with tech. Don't judge what brings other people joy,
He's not judging them for what brings them joy, he's judging them for:
> Friends who took out tech loans from the university at 9% interest for a new gaming rig that was outdated in 3 years, and are still paying it back.
Given his uid, he ain't that young either. 9% is a punishing rate of interest and yeah it was a bad decision to blow that much at that point, if the
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What decade are you living in where a car is $5000? That’s a down payment today.
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I paid $17k for a Jeep Renegade that was only 3 year old. Imagine if I bought a more obvious piece of crap with a lot more miles on it.
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Should be Embarrassed (Score:5, Insightful)
It's too fucking heavy!! (Score:2)
600 grams is too heavy. Would you walk around with a 600 gram dumbbell on your face? It's good for a one-time 30 minute gimmick. Don't get me wrong, the visuals are amazing and what it can do is great, but it's not light enough to just wear casually .. nor is there good enough content on it. They need to get it down to at least 120 grams, which is totally possible because the Bigscreen Beyond weighs 120 grams .. so if a couple of guys in a garage can make a 120 gram VR headset (with 2.5K per eye displays) w
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Yeah, that was shocking that they had the thought to put the battery in a remote location, but thought laptop grade electronics and attendant heat management belonged right there with the lenses. Also, to use lots of glass and metal, which while more 'premium' than plastic, weighs a relatively large amount. If you were committed to a tethered pack *anyway*, why not make all the 'not needed on face' stuff go with it?
I might have understood if the battery were right up there, but they were already in 'awkwar
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I don't think it was a blunder, it's just that the technology does not seem to be ready. Which is kind of interesting. Right now this looks like a device for commercial/professional use (and yes, military ... sorry). Certainly for the price.
Strange, I would imagine that if Steve Jobs were still around, he probably would have said the same thing: "too bloody heavy, make it lighter!". Sometimes being OCD is a good thing in product development.
Well, they make me motion sick anyways, so I'll just move along.
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I don't even like wearing glasses and hats. Give me a holodeck!
cool (Score:5, Funny)
now go be sad, quietly, by yourself because no one cares about your stupid purcha.....
I financed a little over $3,900
oh my god.
Biggest mistake, financing an impulse buy (Score:2)
If you don't have the cash to buy the latest gadget for entertainment, you shouldn't be buying it. I have no sympathy.
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Yep....the only way I "finance" is something like if they give me 6-12-24 months interest free, then sure I'll take it.
BUT I only do this when I have cash in hand to buy it....I'll then take that cash and invest it in my market account of high yield savings and earn a bit of interest on it while making my monthly payments....
Going into debt is never a really good idea in general.
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The interest rate on "financing" for a device that can't really be insured, can't be tracked by title, etc is going to be the same as a high interest credit card. Why do this to yourself?
At least put it on your own credit card and get some cashback or frequent flyer miles or something.
Well, don't be so damn trendy. (Score:4, Insightful)
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Being an early adopter doesn't mean you have to fall for every sparkly doodad put out by a major company.
In this case, satisfaction depends on whether you're 'adopting' the equivalent of a dog or a cat, or the equivalent of a Chia Pet. The former has some potential for being emotionally gratifying and possibly even useful, while the latter is... well.. rather like a Vision Pro!
anonymous reader (Score:2)
In my opinion, when an argument like this comes up, the answer is that you paid a premium to enjoy a product or service for longer, or earlier, than others. Kind of like early boarding with an airline.
As for the Vision Pro itself, it is too heavy and too expensive. Why would you finance a gimmick at an early-adopter price?
Anyway, you are correct in that it's a mistake to look at what other people are paying right now. When you go to finance someth
When you don't think before you buy. (Score:2)
Stupid is sad (Score:2)
I'd be pretty sad if I were stupid enough to finance $3900 on a gadget with no financial return potential. No idea what the terms are for such financing, but at 6% over 36 months (eg. similar to what you'd pay for a car loan) you're paying an extra $500 on that price. That's insane to me.
I was taught that financing things was foolish, and a waste of money. Only finance something that will earn you money or make you money: a car for getting to work, a house (which will appreciate, or at least not waste your
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Well, if you have the Apple Card and finance through Apple Pay, I think you can get from 12-24mos interest free....
I bought my Mac Pro that way and got an additional 3% off which covered part of the sales tax.
I paid it o
yeah, apple people are stupid (Score:2)
They're literally paying $3200 for e-waste. Something tells me they all driver cybertrucks.
Early Adoption (Score:2)
I early adopted the $1200 HTC Vive.
It sits in my closet collecting dust. The screen door effect is far too noticeable for me. Of course, newer iterations of VR have better resolution for less price.
Such are the risks one takes when you early adopt. Oh well, you only live once. It's fine to makes few mistakes along the way. Just learn from them and move on
sad yet funny (Score:2)
I paid a lot of money for the privilege of getting an Apple Vision Pro brand-new in February.
I financed a little over $3,900 for the 256GB version of the headset.
if you don't mind, you seem to have bigger problems than the depreciation of overpriced luxury consumer gadgets. i hope you at least have some fun with it.
NEVER (Score:2)
If you expect to get value from your $, never buy the bleeding edge product. Also, there's no compelling reason to buy this product...at all. You can fully expect Apple to be dropping the price soon.
One Good Outcome (Score:4, Insightful)
If Apple gives up on it, maybe that will FINALLY be the end of VR / AR / "Spatial Computing" for a generation. Even if they spent $10 billion on it, that's less than ten day's revenue in 2023. Just write it off and close the project.
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Haven't solved the fundamental issue yet (Score:2)
Societies are inherently social. It's right there in the name; there's no getting around it. From how your parents came together, to your employment, to professional and personal organizations, to recreational activities: anytime you have more than one person, it's social (no matter how much some of us may wish otherwise).
You know what isn't social? Having a physical barrier that isolates you from others. So while Apple will tout the device's AR capabilities, show us ads with fathers participating in birthd
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Cinephile is a killer app (Score:2)
Spend more money on AirPods Pro. Download an app called Cinephile, lie in bed, stream Star Wars Andor in 4k on a 100ft movie screen. Then tell me that you are still sad.
There is no doubt this is expensive, but I compared it to the cost and space consumption of very large screen TVs or 4k laser projectors. Its a great choice if you don't have a place to build a (good) home theater and don't want to run wires everywhere. Its well suited to people who travel a lot, or live alone, or perhaps are stuck in senior
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Oh no...THAT was one of the things I was thinking of as a reason to buy one...along with how you described the large movie experience (especially on an airplane).
Well, darn...maybe the next version.
I need to go down and at least do a demo and see for myself.
Re: Cinephile is a killer app (Score:2)
This is just my experience. If your vision is perfect, you might experience it differently.
Maybe one issue is generation loss. You take the output of the laptop and map it to a plane in a 3D environment, then you manipulate that plane in a sphere, then you distort the entire thing to correct for optical issues with the compound lenses, then you donâ(TM)t have the same quality as the original laptop output.
But thereâ(TM)s probably a multi-factor solution involving all of the above components and ma
Re: Cinephile is a killer app (Score:2)
I should add that I do use it as a laptop screen adequately for brief periods, maybe 45 minutes. But it doesnâ(TM)t really make sense to me to use it rhat way when the laptop is already sitting in my lap.
The advantage is that you can do things on your laptop without removing the AVP. That eliminates the need to swap devices. â"e.g., âContinuityâ(TM). But itâ(TM)s not really my go to laptop external display⦠Immersed app might change that if I can have 5 screens on
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... the immersive environments like Hawaii and Yosemite, gimmicky apps that float 3D objects n front of you with photorealism, immersive video, video games on your ceiling ...
Gimmicky? Forget that silliness. Until Apple lets me have Lacy Lennon dancing in front of me 24/7, I can't see the use. Kidding, not kidding.
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... the immersive environments like Hawaii and Yosemite, gimmicky apps that float 3D objects n front of you with photorealism, immersive video, video games on your ceiling ...
Gimmicky? Forget that silliness. Until Apple lets me have Lacy Lennon dancing in front of me 24/7, I can't see the use. Kidding, not kidding.
And yes, yes, before anyone else says it, "I'd only get about 10 minutes use of that at my age." There, happy now? :)
Probably stolen (Score:2)
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Yeah, or market prices are determined by what buyers are willing to pay.
If you put your used $item on eBay at or around the same price as I can get one from the manufacturer that hasn't been subject to whatever misuse / abuse you may have applied to it during your ownership, why the fuck would I screw around with eBay?
If you want to sell a used thing, there's going to be a depreciation value applied unless it's a rare collector item. And if it's a fairly useless used thing, the price drop will be greater t
Early Adopter (Score:2)
Shit on your face is not fun. (Score:2)
Even if it's Apple shit on your face.
2+2=don't make products the market has already roundly and repeatedly rejected.
Why didn't you buy? (Score:2)
Probably because of the 20 minutes of script reading. If I wanted to waste my life listening to a drone read I'd call customer service.
There's a lesson on economic value here (Score:2)
AR is dead on arrival (Score:4, Insightful)
Nobody wants to work 8 hours a day with something strapped to their face. Are people nuts?
I have three big, very expensive monitors that are about as good a work experience as I need, and I don't need to sweat into a headset. Even more expensive than that vision pro, although their usable lifespan is much more.
AR is DOA. VR has applications in entertainment and simulation.
This is painfully obvious to anyone.
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Nobody wants to work 8 hours a day with something strapped to their face. Are people nuts?
This is painfully obvious to anyone.
Not really true. I wear glasses from the time I wake up till the time I go to bed. I WANT to wear them. They make my life significantly better.
People want VR and AR. They don't want a 1.4lb device. When the form fact reaches something similar to glasses, it will be everywhere. Just like no one carried a laptop in their pocket, the smartphone form factor enabled adoption of the pocket computer.
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I dropped thousands of dollars to get rid of my glasses. There was a lineup out the door of people waiting to do the same.
Supply and demand (Score:2)
Crap nobody wants gets sold cheaply before it becomes a paper weight. Film at 11.
Surprise! Shock! (Score:2)
This guy bought a v1.0 product that is meant for literally nothing but developers and early adopters to fuck about with, and expected it to retain value on the used market?
If you can't use it for anything useful, and it's not a fashion item, then it's not going to retain any value. Period.
Stop your loss by selling it for what you can, and stop bitching that you fell for the hype.
Not bad (Score:2)
Which company is next with a big budget 3D virtual (Score:2)
So far Google, FaceBook, and now Apple have sunk huge sums of money into this space.
With each round dying out fast than the last.
I've said this a hundred times. The form factor is wrong. And there is no upcoming tech that can fix this.
Successful toys need to be casual. Something you can just grab and instantly start using. With the ultimate being the phone. Game consoles are close. But a VR/AR headset requires a lot of preparation before entering into the "space". In almost all cases the best experi
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Not sure who your talking to, but have not heard anyone claim returns are 100%, pretty sure that would have gotten some kind of news coverage.
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Not sure who your talking to, but have not heard anyone claim returns are 100%, pretty sure that would have gotten some kind of news coverage.
Did you RTFA? Of course not.
the number of returns equaled the device's sales
That's a 100% return rate. Which is false as Apple themselves reported a 1% return rate on their earnings call.
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Re:Returns are 1%, not 100% (Score:4, Informative)
Which is false as Apple themselves reported a 1% return rate on their earnings call.
Apples last earnings call was February 1, the Apple vision pro was released February 2?
Re: This could have been seen from a mile away... (Score:2)
Newton was certainly not a successful product, but as it encompassed many of the things we take for granted in modern smart phones, I can't see it as a blunder either.
A former boss of mine told me "you can tell the pioneers by all the arrows in their backs" - meaning that a good, but incompletely-formed idea gets sorted out by the market over time, and not always to the benefit of its creators.
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I'd pay $5, and list it again on ebay for $100. for the lulz. I bet that would make you really sad.
I'll give you $20, giving you a massive % profit. Easy money.