Beeper Users Say Apple Is Now Blocking Their Macs From Using iMessage Entirely (techcrunch.com) 175
An anonymous reader quotes a report from TechCrunch: The Apple-versus-Beeper saga is not over yet it seems, even though the iMessage-on-Android Beeper Mini was removed from the Play Store last week. Now, Apple customers who used Beeper's apps are reporting that they've been banned from using iMessage on their Macs -- a move Apple may have taken to disable Beeper's apps from working properly, but ultimately penalizes its own customers for daring to try a non-Apple solution for accessing iMessage. The latest follows a contentious game of cat-and-mouse between Apple and Beeper, which Apple ultimately won. [...]
According to users' recounting of their tech support experiences with Apple, the support reps are telling them their computer has been flagged for spam, or for sending too many messages — even though that's not the case, some argued. This has led many Beeper users to believe this is how Apple is flagging them for removal from the iMessage network. One Beeper customer advised others facing this problem to ask Apple if their Mac was in a "throttled status" or if their Apple ID was blocked for spam to get to the root of the issue. Admitting up front that third-party software was to blame would sometimes result in the support rep being able to lift the ban, some noted.
The news of the Mac bans was earlier reported by Apple news site AppleInsider and Times of India, and is being debated on Y Combinator forum site Hacker News. On the latter, some express their belief that the retaliation against Apple's own users is justified as they had violated Apple's terms, while others said that iMessage interoperability should be managed through regulation, not rogue apps. Far fewer argued that Apple is exerting its power in an anticompetitive fashion here.
According to users' recounting of their tech support experiences with Apple, the support reps are telling them their computer has been flagged for spam, or for sending too many messages — even though that's not the case, some argued. This has led many Beeper users to believe this is how Apple is flagging them for removal from the iMessage network. One Beeper customer advised others facing this problem to ask Apple if their Mac was in a "throttled status" or if their Apple ID was blocked for spam to get to the root of the issue. Admitting up front that third-party software was to blame would sometimes result in the support rep being able to lift the ban, some noted.
The news of the Mac bans was earlier reported by Apple news site AppleInsider and Times of India, and is being debated on Y Combinator forum site Hacker News. On the latter, some express their belief that the retaliation against Apple's own users is justified as they had violated Apple's terms, while others said that iMessage interoperability should be managed through regulation, not rogue apps. Far fewer argued that Apple is exerting its power in an anticompetitive fashion here.
Easy fix (Score:5, Insightful)
Easy fix; don't use iMessage at all! /s
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exactly. It's not as if there was a use case for using iMessage anyways. Tons of alternatives are cross-platform.
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Can you send an SMS from a Mac? We are talking about iMessage on Mac here. And no, sending through your phone doesn't count.
Do they provide some sort of SMS gateway allowing to send and receive SMS without requiring a mobile phone number and plan?
But yes, it's always good to remember that iMessage is also the default SMS application on the iPhone, not even sure it can be switched to something else.
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Well, you can't send RCS on a PC without pairing to your Android phone either
You seem to assume that I was defending RCS. I wasn't. RCS suck. And iMessage suck even more. I don't use any of them.
Read again my message. I only said there isn't any use case for iMessage (that can't be fulfilled using an alternative, plus chances are that alternative will be cross-platform). You definitely haven't provided one.
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It's not easy to use since it's limited only to ~20% of smartphones sold and other Apple devices.
And now we learn that it's not easy to use on some Macs as well as they are being blocked.
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I didn't move the goalpost to RCS. And you didn't prove me wrong about SMS. So what are you talking about?
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But as far as I remember a message sent from a Mac to a phone would be an SMS
And what phone number would that message arrive from? Does replying works?
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It be nice if there was a method to fight back (Score:5, Interesting)
When a corporation does something like this, your options as an individual amount to 'suck it up, maybe bitch on social media'.
It's very asymmetrical. They have a legal department, you have debts and a job. They lie, they breach contract by disabling something you paid for justifying it with that lie, and you bend over and take it.
Re:It be nice if there was a method to fight back (Score:5, Insightful)
Next time don't buy an Apple.
Re:It be nice if there was a method to fight back (Score:4)
Sure.
But also, if it's an advertised feature of a Mac that you can send iMessages, and they ban that device because they're being anticompetitive asshats, don't you think that you should have some kind of legal recourse for them taking away features from your property after purchase?
Don't we usually get really pissed off around here about that kind of thing?
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Sure. There should be some kind of legal recourse. But there isn't. We know there isn't. Apple knows there isn't. We know Apple knows there isn't. Everyone knows Apple will do anything and everything to keep their walled garden locked (if someone somehow didn't know, then they should be allowed electronics period). Hell, they've knowingly done illegal actions in the past.
Anywho, knowing Apple, this is exactly the behavior I expect. If any of these Beeper Mac users are surprised, I say again, they shouldn't
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(if someone somehow didn't know, then they
be allowed electronics period)
Damnit.
Re:It be nice if there was a method to fight back (Score:4)
Actually no. Most people aren't generally aware of this sorry of thing because they're not nerds into that sorry of thing.
I doubt my plumber knows. On the other hand he knows how to fit gas pipes without destroying my house and killing me and maybe my neighbours. Maybe you and I are too stupid to live? Or if someone stuck me in the cab of an artic and told me I had to deliver a load, well it might not go well. The reversing to a loading dock at the end certainly wouldn't, but the rest of the drive wouldn't be great either.
No one has gone to become expert or even knowledgeable in every area of life . That includes you.
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How to do general plumping doesn't make big news articles. Apple's giant fuckups and general anti-competition does. They've been in plenty of big news articles about their bad behavior - nerd news or not. Whether or not they consciously think about it or are willing to admit they know is another thing altogether. But they definitely know.
Specialized training isn't very comparable. And even if it was - it still backfires on you. They were trained (or otherwise learned) to use the tools to do the job. Smartph
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I'll bet you a dollar that there's a TOS/EULA section forbidding reverse engineering. So if using beeper violates it, are they really the "bad guy" for shutting you off?
I don't like it. I think it's crappy. Apple management sucks for many MANY reasons. I'm just saying... It's not like there was no warning or nothing forbidding doing this kind of thing.
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The ToS/EULA probably doesn't say anything about reverse engineering. What it probably says is something along the lines of using a 3rd party to interact with the service is a violation and you'll lose access. Except, you know, in legalese.
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>There should be some kind of legal recourse.
There is indeed one, but not in the direction you're pointing.
That color indicates that Apple is certifying that it was sent with secure end to end encryption.
Apple would realistically face liability for transmitting and tagging if this were not the case.
I've seen no indication that apple has been offered the source code to review, let alone been offered reimbursement for the engineering costs to review the code that some guy on the internet is claiming to be
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I don't like it. I think it's scummy... .BUT.... There is almost certainly a "thou shalt not reverse engineer" in the EULA/TOS.
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Don't we usually get really pissed off around here about that kind of thing?
We do, but many people around here seem to be of the "Might makes Right" variety. So they openly champion such practices hoping they will be the next king......
A small subset are Betas hoping to shoot the final killing bullet. (And not before then.)
The rest are a bunch of BOHICAs. (Read: A very small percentage of those are also championing that cause because they like the pain.)
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Whatsapp, facebook messenger, Telegram, Signal... All have the same asymmetry built in.
Re: It be nice if there was a method to fight back (Score:2)
ArchieBunker will pay you a visit soon to tell you that you must always do as Apple says.
Re:It be nice if there was a method to fight back (Score:5, Insightful)
There is : get out of the Apple ecosystem. You'll end up saving money and getting better tech from elsewhere out of the deal too.
There's no downside.
Re:It be nice if there was a method to fight back (Score:5, Insightful)
There's no downside.
Yes there is: Google.
You know, the same company that is presently waging an anti-adblock arms race against people who can't stand their increasingly obnoxious ads on YouTube. So we already know Google is fine with taking user-hostile actions to further monetize their "free" products, it's just a question of when they'll decide to do it to Android. Because, profit.
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https://www.zdnet.com/article/... [zdnet.com]
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You're right, better lock everything down to the lowest common denominator and let the mighty company tell us what we can and cannot do.
It's the "Unattended" part that bothers me.
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And you see no potential exploits that enables?
Of course it does, just as much as the official app stores. Both Google's and Apple's have delivered malware to devices. If you don't use the functionality, then it won't affect security on your device.
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There is : get out of the Apple ecosystem. You'll end up saving money and getting better tech from elsewhere out of the deal too.
There's no downside.
As much as I do not like the Apple walled-garden I still wouldn't agree with your statement. Personally I have android, mostly because of it's bigger flexibility, however based on my experience:
- the hardware quality of Apple is much better - they just last and last, whilst my pixel phones died just after warranty expired (2 out of 3)
- Apple keeps getting upgrades till the hardware is no longer compatible (~10 years), whilst Google flagship phones only 2 or 3 years (don't remember which), not to mention any
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- Android phones (except Pixels) are full of bloatware, really full of it
True, my really cheap phone came with a gesture program, a help program, a file manager and a FM radio app along with the stock Google stuff. It's the problem with a C$150 (about US$100) phone, stupid bloatware like help and a radio app, which is handy when you have only 512 MB's of data or no reception.
I guess with Apple, the FM radio app and such are part of the operating system, plug in your headphones and during the emergency with no cell reception, listen to the news.
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- Apple keeps getting upgrades till the hardware is no longer compatible (~10 years)
This part is not true (for Macs at least). Otherwise OpenCore wouldn't exist.
I remember a long support and I specified circa 10 years for iPhone (because the sub-thread was about ditching Apple for Android, hence I assumed it's about phones), however of course I might be wrong. I do not know whether your statement is based on a personal experience or some other source, so below I provide some details I found online - please specify your sources in case you disagree, for sure we can sort the details out.
Google search returns:"Apple will support iPhones (and all devices it makes) for
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Except none of this is true. Samsung while a big portion of Android users, isn't even that good. They just pump out a lot of low quality devices for high margins - kind of like Apple, but worse and across a wider spectrum. Google isn't going to give up making Pixels anytime soon, and they moved manufacturing to India. So, yeah, still no downside to leaving Apple. There are zero benefits.
Re:It be nice if there was a method to fight back (Score:5)
Benefits to not apple?
Well, easier repairs, and better privacy, more software options, upgradeable shortage, owning a phone that respects me.
I've got a fair phone 5 and it promises a long support windows. It's much easier to repair, I don't even need a screwdriver to replace the battery. And I can run mobile Firefox with a better list of privacy focused extensions.
I'm also the kind of turbonerd who has a terminal on his phone and installs open source software from F.droid.
And if I feel like it I can install alternative OSs or root the phone, they even provide instructions on how to unlock the bootloader. As long as you don't actually brick it and can restore the factory ROM, it won't even void the warranty.
Etc.
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There are zero benefits. To Apple.
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I mean that's not entirely true. I'm never going to buy apple.
With that said, iOS is less fragmented than android, which does give some benefits. The CPUs and NPUs are very fast, and some models have a good lidar sensor if you have use for that particular target obscure niche. Few android phones get updates for as long as apple ones, the fairphone being notable exception.
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With that said, iOS is less fragmented than android, which does give some benefits.
Taken individually, every Android phone is less fragmented than iOS as a whole.
Just limit yourself to a single Android vendor if you think less fragmentation (aka less choice) is better.
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With that said, iOS is less fragmented than android, which does give some benefits.
Taken individually, every Android phone is less fragmented than iOS as a whole.
Just limit yourself to a single Android vendor if you think less fragmentation (aka less choice) is better.
"Fragmentation"... Apple fanbois seem to mention this a lot but have never explained why it's bad or what problem that a monoculture fixes.
Especially as every problem that fragmentation represents now exists in Apple's ecosystem. Especially the only real valid argument that not every "app" can run on every Android phone. Now that Apple have several different levels of hardware, the same issue exists for them.
What they're really saying when they squeal "fragmentation" is that Android is a diverse multi
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Kind of hard to tell how someone who owns no Apple hardware and who won't buy any our a fanboi, but whatever cope you need to maintain whatever cognitive dissonance you have...
Android is a bit of a shitshow, with vendors providing the hardware and customising and aggregating the software. They are often poorly updated and hacked around with. On x86 you have several major GPU manufactures and a few minor ones but they provide the drivers to the end user. On phones every manufacturer gets the driver from the
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https://techcrunch.com/2012/05... [techcrunch.com]
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So, get a Google Pixel. Literally solves every issue you mentioned.
Fragmentation isn't a real issue and hasn't been for years at this point.
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So, get a Google Pixel,
No thanks, I have a fairphone 5.
Literally solves every issue you mentioned.
No it doesn't because it doesn't solve the fragmentation problem. One or two phones being OK doesn't change the fact that developing an app for android is a massive ball ache because of how fragmented it is. It's an exercise in whac-a-mole of weird bugs from hacked phones, and old OS versions. It's a big drag on app developement, if you're not doing something very straightforward.
The graphics, OpenGL shader lan
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I regularly develop apps for Android. Fragmentation is not an issue. Currently, to be listed in the Play store at all, you need to target API 33 minimum aka Android 13 released 2022. Google seemingly will keep this pattern up increasing the minimum API requirements every August for the foreseeable future. My minimum API level for my apps is three less that the current target - so currently 30 aka Android 11 released 2020 (unless it's like a really, really basic app where versions essentially don't matter at
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Two different models, sold in different markets. Again, each Samsung Galaxy model is less fragmented than iOS as a whole.
While you are there, iOS is more fragmented because of the choice of Apple to release the same phone with different amounts of storage.
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You have yet to give an example that actually means anything or is actually unique to Apple.
Re: It be nice if there was a method to fight back (Score:2)
Example: apple sold you a smart watch with a o2 (blood oxygen ) sensing feature but now can't sell it because of patent problems, so now they are going to push a software "fix", and remove that feature.
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The psychotechnology you're looking for is called Marketable Torts.
With Marketable Torts you sell your right to sue for cash up front and investors seek to recover significant damages. It was popular in Iceland for centuries before the Church took over.
Our government replaces that with Class Actions, which sound similar, but they 99% protect the corporations and enrich the lawyers, screwing the injured plus massive delays.
Check out 'Legal Systems Very Different Than Our Own' for details.
Also consider why a
The price tag of iMessage (Score:5, Interesting)
This is what happens when a widely used protocol is closed source and do not want to interoperate.... sure, it's their system dictate the rules but sometimes those same rules will also hurt the very customer base it tries to control/restraint/protect...
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This is what happens when a widely used protocol is closed source and do not want to interoperate.... sure, it's their system dictate the rules but sometimes those same rules will also hurt the very customer base it tries to control/restraint/protect...
That would be the kind of thing the EU would be very upset about if it were actually a problem.
But it's not a problem in Europe or anywhere else outside the US because no other culture is so vain as to care about what colour your bubble is.
I dislike Apple with a passion but have to admit that IMessage doesn't violate even the most stringent consumer protection, there's nothing illegal about differentiating messages by source as long as any source using the standard protocol (SMS in this case) is still
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Fuck Apple (Score:2)
Wormwood Incorporated.
Why does Apple need their own SMS protocol? (Score:3, Interesting)
If an iPhone can only send messages using a proprietary protocol then I would say get a better phone.
Re:Why does Apple need their own SMS protocol? (Score:5, Insightful)
Apple wants everyone to be isolated in their ecosystem that they have full control over.
So do every major corporation in the long run. Lock the customers into their ecosystem. So you'd need a Facebook computer for Facebook, Apple computer for Apple, Google computer for Google, Microsoft computer for Microsoft and Linux computer for hacking into all those environments.
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Re: Why does Apple need their own SMS protocol? (Score:3)
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because MMS tends to shrink and compress the hell out of most images.
Yes, please! I'm so tired of receiving a 24MB image of a friend's cat. If someone is going to send an image in an email or text message, why not add a pop-up and let the user select how large the photo needs to be. It seems every new phone with a high resolution camera defaults to sending the largest photo possible.
A panoramic view from a vacation? OK, 24MB.
A picture of a crushed Amazon package? 8MB.
A cute rabbit in your flower bed? 2MB
I don't need to see the veins on the leav
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My phone has a quarter terabyte of storage and a 5G network connection that is faster than my home cable broadband. It's literally not worth my time to answer some dumb prompt about how much scaling down I'd prefer on an incoming image. As it is I'm already sick of websites asking me if I'll accept their cookies. I really don't care either way, just stop nagging me.
Here's a better idea: let whoever is sending these unwanted pictures know that if you wanted to see the mundane details of their day-to-day l
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Higher quality images too, because MMS tends to shrink and compress the hell out of most images.
Higher quality images too, because MMS tends to shrink and compress the hell out of most images.
That's the Carrier's fault; not Apple's; nor the MMS Protocol's. Go whine to them. The Carriers are doing Downsampling and brutal Recompression. Yet, somehow, nobody gets out the Torches and Pitchforks against Them!
Why?
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Because people are idiots and want to blame Apple.
Precisely.
Re: Why does Apple need their own SMS protocol? (Score:2)
Re: Why does Apple need their own SMS protocol? (Score:2)
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What exactly is the point of iMessage? I have never used an iPhone. I did turn off RDS on my Android phone because I don't see the point of it - and I think it allowed for adding emojis to my messages (which I don't like). What is wrong with regular SMS? Is an iPhone incapable of using standard SMS (over IMS) messaging? If an iPhone can only send messages using a proprietary protocol then I would say get a better phone.
Seconded on the iMessage bit. As for the rest, I've used an iPhone almost since they first appeared, never used iMessage. What to use in my friends/family circle is usually an informal negotiation on some 3rd party communications app between a mixed bag of iPhone and Android users who, except for myself, aren't nerds and therefore blissfully unaware of the Android vs iPhone holy wars. Lately the consensus has been to use WhatsApp but there are other alternatives we could switch to. The reason nobody I know
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Historically SMS used to cost money (it still does in most countries outside US) and it's ridiculously expensive, like 10c / text message, so people use alternatives, iMessage being one that is already installed on Apple devices by default.
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I did turn off RDS on my Android phone because I don't see the point of it
Yeah all my friends are also 90 years old and only send text messages. In the meantime most of the world recognised the shortcomings of that. I'd send you a video explaining it, but how would you watch it...
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What exactly is the point of iMessage? I have never used an iPhone. I did turn off RDS on my Android phone because I don't see the point of it - and I think it allowed for adding emojis to my messages (which I don't like). What is wrong with regular SMS? Is an iPhone incapable of using standard SMS (over IMS) messaging?
If an iPhone can only send messages using a proprietary protocol then I would say get a better phone.
People are whining precisely because Apple falls back to using Standard SMS/MMS, rather than Google's Proprietary Extensions to RCS when Communicating through their "Messages" App to non-Messages-Using Targets.
Apple has already announced Compatibility with Standard RCS; but that supposedly isn't good enough.
Personally, I don't get it.
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So Apple bans Mac hardware from using iMessage, but the owner of those Macs are not Apple customers all of a sudden and are getting "all butthurt" about it?
Did you even read the god damn headline before posting?
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Right. Because the only people bitching about Messages are Beeper customers using Macs.
Didn't even read the god damned news anytime in the last, I dunno, forever?
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The story is about Apple banning Macs.
You claimed that the people effected are not Apple customers, which is obviously a very stupid thing to say.
Then you try to move the goalposts. So we'll add bad-faith argumentation to your obviously stupid thing to say.
Care to add more?
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It's also annoying when a person says something like "Facetime me" and my answer is "use something portable." Apple users (most, not all) seem to be so clueless as to not even realize that the
Apple's hostility towards their own customers (Score:2)
Apple's hostility towards their own customers is quite amazing, really. Apple sells such amazing hardware that's so incredibly hobbled by their software and hostility both towards users and developers.
But then again Linux (at least Linux developers) seems to suffer from the same problem, but it's manifest differently, and driven more by ego.
Microsoft may dictate what the UI looks like and how we start our programs, regardless of user desires. But they generally don't seem to care what you do with Windows on
Re:Apple's hostility towards their own customers (Score:5, Insightful)
Apple's hostility towards their own customers is quite amazing, really.
Not as amazing as the continuing loyalty of those customers. But, as research into spousal abuse shows, if you beat someone often enough, they'll get so used to it they're afraid to give it up.
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Apple's hostility towards their own customers is quite amazing, really.
Not as amazing as the continuing loyalty of those customers. But, as research into spousal abuse shows, if you beat someone often enough, they'll get so used to it they're afraid to give it up.
The thing is, the old "he beats me but he says he loves me" only works at fooling the victim for so long.
However Apple's vendor lock in is more akin to keeping their wives shoes in a locked drawer so they can't leave the house without permission. Eventually Apple will become so passe that few will remain loyal, we'll return to the era of the early 00's where only rabid "attention switcheur" fanboys will remain.
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The thing is, the old "he beats me but he says he loves me" only works at fooling the victim for so long.
The experience of those who deal with domestic abuse suggest, quite strongly, otherwise.
There are exceptions, of course, but there are reasons why most states have laws that require the police to arrest someone if they see physical evidence of abuse, regardless of the wishes of the victim. Wife has a bruise? Husband's leaving in handcuffs, even if there's a home security video of her falling down the stairs while home alone, or the cops are in serious trouble. And any prosecutor can tell you how many times
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Re: Apple's hostility towards their own customers (Score:4, Informative)
Apple sells such amazing hardware
They really don't. Just ask people who repair apple hardware for a living.
https://youtube.com/watch?v=xF... [youtube.com]
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And yet, Apple is highly successful and has tons of happy customers. I don't see the issue here.
no one wins (Score:2)
> Apple ultimately won
This is more like tic tac toe where no one wins.
Apple will suffer for this (Score:2, Interesting)
I already favour kindle for books because it is crossd platform, subscribe to prime for video.
If Apple keeps this up, it increases my determination to eleminate their systems from my daily life - i.e. over time their advantage will begin to erode if my position is widely adopted.
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For ancient technology, choose Apple. (Score:2)
Once upon a time, Apple was the leader in hardware and software. Now, when every other vendor is calling their own worthless update, the latest and greatest must-have, Apple makes a point of using ancient technology.
gdpr the data (Score:2)
Ask google for the data. Get proof it wasn't spamming.
Yeah, Apple is a monopoly. That's how it works. (Score:2)
Makes No Sense (Score:2)
Why would Apple Users use Beeper to "Access iMessage"? What possible Advantage would That Have; over just simply Using the "Messages" App?
That's just Insane.
Why I won't be buying Macs or iPhones anymore (Score:2)
But the saga is over. (Score:2)
Imagine what the internet would have looked like.. (Score:2)
... if an evil corporation like Apple owned all of the communication protocols
We need open standards. ALL messaging protocols should be open and published
Apple is the best example we have of how evil a tech company can be
Only one solution (Score:2)
The only solution is legislative. Force them to allow interoperability to any company that meets certain attainable criteria.
It never ends (Score:2)
1984 to 2024. That marks 40 years of people being outraged about the absolutely stupidest things, as long as it's Apple. Just give it up already. Look up "confirmation bias," "social outrage," and "cherry picking" to understand. No? OK. Just blame Apple for the stupidest trivial bullshit, and ignore any problems with your own cherished brands. That seems to be what makes people happy.
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"Cry me a river. You used an unauthorized program [...]"
Are your fascist jackboots laced up tight enough?