China Bans iPhone Use for Government Officials at Work (wsj.com) 70
China ordered officials at central government agencies not to use Apple's iPhones and other foreign-branded devices for work or bring them into the office, WSJ is reporting, citing people familiar with the matter. From the report: In recent weeks, staff were given the instructions by their superiors in workplace chat groups or meetings, the people said. The directive is the latest step in Beijing's campaign to cut reliance on foreign technology and enhance cybersecurity, and comes amid a campaign to limit flows of sensitive information outside of China's borders.
The move by Beijing could have a chilling effect for foreign brands in China, including Apple. Apple dominates the high-end smartphone market in the country and counts China as one of its biggest markets, relying on it for about 19% of its overall revenue. It wasn't clear how widely the orders were being distributed, but similar messages were communicated to employees at some central government regulators. Beijing has for years restricted government officials at some agencies from using iPhones for work, but the order has now been widened, the people said. The latest order also signals an intensified effort by Beijing to ensure its rules are strictly enforced.
The move by Beijing could have a chilling effect for foreign brands in China, including Apple. Apple dominates the high-end smartphone market in the country and counts China as one of its biggest markets, relying on it for about 19% of its overall revenue. It wasn't clear how widely the orders were being distributed, but similar messages were communicated to employees at some central government regulators. Beijing has for years restricted government officials at some agencies from using iPhones for work, but the order has now been widened, the people said. The latest order also signals an intensified effort by Beijing to ensure its rules are strictly enforced.
Re: (Score:1, Troll)
Re: (Score:3)
Honestly, the Federal Government, at least portions of it that deal with sensitive information, should procure a custom OS to be used specifically for dealing with that sensitive information. The custom (probably Linux based) OS would be as boring as hell and have no 3rd party apps at all and no connection at all, or at best a very limited connection, to the web.
Re: (Score:2)
The USG was a huge procurer of Blackberries, back when they were a thing. BYOD was their replacement strategy.
Re: (Score:1)
I was BB guy back in the day for a while. I did the whole BBES setup and admin thing, etc.
Sure they were more secure, especially than iPhone at the time, but damn, what a pos to actually use. Despite having unlimited free access to a BB, I used my iPhone anyway. I only touched the BB when absolutely necessary for work. I left it on my desk at work even during work hours unless I was specifically doing BB related work tasks. Yech
Re:U.S. Next Please. (Score:4, Interesting)
The BB was a device that was well suited to government e-mail use - the keyboard was far more accurate than any touch keyboard - and then they crippled the thing with CAC sleds and such. Imagine a handheld where you had to insert a smartcard into it to use it.
If I could get such a mobile keyboard back, i'd be happy. I don't need to watch youtube on my phone.
Re: (Score:1)
Poorly constructed testing (Score:2)
Obviously - it's impossible for an inaccurate as hell keyboard like a touch one with autocorrection geared for stupid people - go ahead, try typing some unusual word into the system - who don't use technical jargon and don't care about proper punctuation and capitalization to be better than a real keyboard. Full stop.
The rest of this is just bullshit justifying the bad decisions of the past. Touch keyboards are suitable for kids texting and not much else.
Re: (Score:2)
Or they could just disallow you to bring your phone into the room that you already need to be inside to see sensitive information. Oh wait, they already do that.
Re: (Score:2)
Do Chinese-brand mobile phones come with less shovelware and bug-ridden spyware from third parties than most cheap phones sold in other countries? (Obviously, they will have CCP-approved spyware, which is hopefully not so bug-ridden.) If they include all that, they're likely to not be good enough for official use.
Regarding Huawei, iPhones are mostly assembled and tested in China although they are designed in the US. There are some adversarial arrangements there, and at least a good way for Chinese nation
Re:Long overdue (Score:5, Interesting)
From what I've seen, phones in China are similar to ones in the West in terms of what they come bundled with. The cheaper they are, the more crapware comes pre-installed. The high end ones just have the manufacturer's own app store.
Oh yeah, they all have their own app stores, because Google Play isn't available in China. Unlike Apple, Google refused to censor it, so it's blocked.
The CCP doesn't need to pre-install spyware. They prefer to use the Great Firewall and access to cloud storage accounts. It's not like the East German Stazi where they are actively investigating everyone, they only really care about the spread of "rumours" and individual agitators. In the case of the former the social media and search engine companies just censor keywords, and in the case of the latter they just send the police round to hassle or arrest them. Happened to Naomi Wu quite recently.
Re: (Score:3)
The CCP doesn't need to pre-install spyware. They prefer to use the Great Firewall and access to cloud storage accounts. It's not like the East German Stazi where they are actively investigating everyone
Yes, [gizmodo.com] it [cyberscoop.com] is [cnn.com].
I could provide several more [theverge.com] links [defenseone.com], but I ran out of words.
Re: (Score:2)
You seem to be confusing private companies harvesting data for the CCP.
Oh right, you probably think that all companies in China are the CCP and everything they do was personally authorized by Xi.
Re: (Score:3)
Re: (Score:3)
Every country is like that, you obey the law or face the consequences... Unless you already bribed the government/law enforcement.
It's actually closest to the EU. Companies, often American ones, find themselves on the wrong side of EU rules and try to beat them in court. They often lose and end up with big fines. In China it's a bit different because obviously the CCP is not above disappearing people, so when the government says you interpreted the rules wrong and need to do this, companies do it with littl
Re: (Score:1)
So you think going to court and paying a fine if you lose is very similar to being disappeared?
That's an interesting perspective.
Re: (Score:1)
Too stupid and cowardly to do anything but post ad hominem and think he's smart.
Unsurprising.
Re: (Score:2)
You were the one who said that China preferred to get data from corporate and network intermediaries, dude. They are very explicit that they want CCP members at every company, giving "guidance" on how to comply with laws that include assisting the government on demand and giving them control over all data.
https://tfiglobalnews.com/2022... [tfiglobalnews.com]
https://www.visiontimes.com/20... [visiontimes.com]
https://www.thewirechina.com/2... [thewirechina.com]
https://www.rfa.org/english/ne... [rfa.org]
Re: (Score:2)
The law says that companies must cooperate with the government to grant access to user data where possible. That typically means no unbreakable encryption on cloud storage or messaging, and prompt responses to requests for data.
But that's very different to being an arm of the CCP, or producing spyware for it. By that logic, many US companies are branches of the NSA and proxies for the FBI.
Re: (Score:2)
The FBI and NSA don't install government agents at companies, much less require the companies to hire party members to direct compliance and report violations.
You should have stopped with claiming that the country with a Social Credit System [wikipedia.org] and that arrested people [bbc.com] for holding blank sheets of paper is not "actively investigating everyone". That was less pathetically moronic than claiming that when a CCP-influenced company preloads spyware from a CCP-controlled company that is required to provide any user
Re: (Score:2)
True, it's the other way around. The FBI and NSA hire former company staff, and the companies hire politicians to deal with their regulatory issues.
By the way, people have been detailed by police for holding blank sheets of paper in the UK.
I'm not saying any of this is acceptable, I'm saying that just because you hate China isn't a good reason to not understand how it works or how we can beat it, or to pretend that things are so much better here.
Re: (Score:1)
How does this work? Do you get a direct deposit at the end of the month or do they pay you in real time as you post?
Is it really worth your time at 50 cents a post?
Re: (Score:3)
For the record, I don't like China, or the CCP. I have to admit they have greatly improved the lives of the Chinese people, but the way they went about it was often... I'm not sure what the best adjective is. Misguided to the point of being a crime against humanity.
Of course Xi will never be brought to justice, unless the CCP itself decides it no longer likes him. I don't doubt that he cares a great deal about eliminating poverty in China, but some of his methods cannot be excused. But then again, neither c
Re: (Score:2)
You seem to be confusing private companies harvesting data for the CCP.
What private companies? The ones with embedded government representatives they have to clear their decisions with?
Re: (Score:2)
Re: (Score:1)
Always bring a burner for foreign travel to any place sketchy.
That was official corporate policy for traveling execs for laptops at my last place, too.
Re: (Score:2)
It's not like the East German Stazi where they are actively investigating everyone, they only really care about the spread of "rumours" and individual agitators. In
Everyone is like the stasi now. Gathering data on everyone is now within reach of determined private individuals and the required hardware is in the ballpark of a dependable car, the data dumps are public domain, people should be concerned but it’s not talked about a whole lot.
Governments have budgets for staff and hardware and authority and capability to ingest less accessible sources. The cost can go as high as you want but the floor is so low that it would be puzzling for any government not to b
Re: Long overdue (Score:1)
The uk had good ways to test huawei networking equipment and it was working well enough to allow them to be used. I don't see much reason why phones couldn't have the same treatment.
That is...until the USA insisted and the UK government bent over, as usual.
Re: (Score:3)
And US govt banning Huawei didn't? Double standard much?
Double standards are warranted when it comes to countries that are clearly autocracies, such as China. In China, the communist party has complete power over business. There is no separation between corporation and the state in the sense that corporations have to follow all orders, such as handing over all information on request, without question or checks and balances.
In a democracy with civil rights, a corporation can refuse, or demand a court order, or simply go to court against the government. There is n
Re: (Score:2)
As should other countries, including ones that think of the USA as a friend. Eg NSA tapped German Chancellery for decades, WikiLeaks claims [theguardian.com].
Re: (Score:2)
Re: (Score:1)
Re: (Score:2)
No, the Chinese-made phones are finally compromised enough that China will only "trust" their bureaucrats to carry them.
Why do you think the US government banned Huawei phones to begin with?
Selective enforcement will ensue (Score:2)
Party officials love their iPhones. They're even greater status symbols than in the US.
BYOD is a poor policy. It's especially unwise for any government to allow it. Likewise, it's unwise to depend on an unreliable supply chain for network hardware that can be implanted like the NSA Equations group did/does.
Re: (Score:2)
Party officials love their iPhones.
Do you think this is any different in the west?
There was a story about an Australian politician who was exempted from the password policy on phones because he said "it was too hard to type in when driving". Fortunately he wasn't the minister for transport. Also people like that don't BYOD, that's just for the plebs, they get the company to buy all their stuff for them and damn any device policy, they want their toy and want it now.
Probably not about data security (Score:2)
China is too important for Apple and Apple is too important for the US to risk with heavy handed secret orders for foreign surveillance, it will leak eventually. Not worth it.
This is about China ensuring the Apple ecosystem won't conquer their entire market and exports most profits in the consumer electronic market to the US and weaken their autarky.
Re: (Score:3)
Apple can neve
Re: (Score:2)
iOS/iPhone is the highest value target for attackers, because so many people have iPhones. Of course, even so it's likely that only well funded law enforcement and government agencies can unlock it.
What I'd really like to know is how well Google and Samsung phones stand up. Both take security seriously, especially Google.
How much revenue? (Score:2)
Re: (Score:2)
They probably count on a snowball effect: with no iDevices in the government, many apps developed for the internal market may not work well (maybe not at all) on iOS, then in less interest for locals to buy them.
Re: (Score:1)
It just means most of them will have a government phone and a personal iPhone.
If anything, Apple will briefly sell more phones on China, not fewer.
Re: (Score:2)
Re: (Score:2)
Of course... (Score:2)
Re: (Score:2)
Came here to say this. "Enhance cybersecurity" means that China can't bug iPhones to monitor its government employees, so it'll require them to use phones that it has already bugged.
If anything, this is a sign that Apple is doing things right.
Re: (Score:2)
> means that China can't bug iPhones
That's one of six possible interpretations (6 choose 1-3) .
What evidence leads you to this conclusion?
Re: (Score:2)
The fact that China is a surveillance state, whereas Apple has frequently and publicly resisted pressure to add back doors to its devices and software.
What are the other possible interpretations?
Re: Of course... (Score:2)
Is this the same apple that made the changes China asked for in their app store, which Google refused to do?
Asking for a billion potential friends.
Re: (Score:2)
Yep! Also the same Apple which refused to give the iOS source code to the Chinese government.
I don't mind Apple abiding by Chinese laws to make its hardware and software available in China. I am glad it hasn't bowed to pressure to make its hardware and software modifiable by China.
Re: Of course... (Score:2)
Itym glad they claimed they did not give them the source so you could feel comforted. You can't trust a corporation. Well, most of us can't.
Dogfooding (Score:2)
Here I am in a US-aligned country with my Moto-branded Lenovo phone thinking (aside from the lack of updates), the Chinese make some reasonable budget-priced kit.
Meanwhile in Shanghai, a black turtleneck wearing party official is crying into his almond milk caramel latte over brother Jinping taking away his Apple bling.
Cupertino decadence will be the downfall of the Chinese empire.
Re: (Score:2)
Here I am in a US-aligned country with my Moto-branded Lenovo phone thinking (aside from the lack of updates), the Chinese make some reasonable budget-priced kit.
Same, I abhor the waste but from my standpoint I'm better off with a device that costs less than half as much but has more than half the useful lifetime. The phones have zero resale value since they start out so cheap, so there is no industry for redistributing them even in perfect condition (my phone has spent its whole life in a rugged case and with a screen protector.)
But then, I wouldn't BYOD this sucker into an office, either, that would be both irresponsible and also a bad idea for me.
Re: (Score:1)
He is losing his officially paid for government phone. He'll have an iPhone 14 or whatever by the end of the week for personal use so he can continue to iMessage his mistress.
So they are going to use... Android? (Score:2)
I mean... I'm no iPhone fan, but I'm not sure that's better.
Re: (Score:2)
They will use Android-based phones, but they will be running Chinese builds, not American builds which are NSA Enhanced (tm). This is a good and sensible plan for them.
Re: (Score:2)
Instead they will be CCP Enhanced (tm). Which is still arguably a good thing for the CCP (unless the NSA figures out how to kick that back door open), but bad for literally everybody else that would touch the thing.
Re: (Score:2)
Re: (Score:2)
Who said that I didn't? Assumes statements never said.
Good start (Score:1)
Re: (Score:1)
Canâ(TM)t remotely spy on the iPhone?
They just can't be sure they're the only ones spying.
America: Tiktok China: Apple (Score:1)
Any closed phone should be (Score:2)
It does not matter what kind of phone, if you cannot put a community maintained firmware on it, you can assume it has built-in backdoor. Either by the Chinese or one of the privatized surveillance from the US.