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Businesses Apple Technology

Apple Talks Up High-End iPhones in Sign Ultra Model May Be Coming (bloomberg.com) 63

An anonymous reader shares a report: Apple Chief Executive Officer Tim Cook, speaking on an earnings call that was mostly focused on holiday results, made an off-the-cuff remark that could be quite telling about the company's future. Cook was fielding a question about whether the iPhone's rising average sales price was sustainable. After all, a top-of-the-line model that cost $1,150 in 2017 (the iPhone X with 256 gigabytes of storage) now fetches $1,600 (the iPhone 14 Pro Max with 1 terabyte).

His response: The price increase is no problem. In fact, consumers could probably be persuaded to spend more. "I think people are willing to really stretch to get the best they can afford in that category," Cook said on the call, noting that the iPhone has become "integral" to people's lives. Consumers now use the device to make payments, control smart-home appliances, manage their health and store banking data, he said. While Cook wouldn't say if he anticipates further price increases, he made a good argument for why even more upscale iPhones could make sense -- especially if they deliver new features. Apple has internally discussed adding a higher-end iPhone to the top of its smartphone lineup.

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Apple Talks Up High-End iPhones in Sign Ultra Model May Be Coming

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  • Get me a VR headset with 8K per eye (over 65ppd.) I don't need stupid phone tweaks, not unless it's a foldable or they actually thought of something revolutionary beyond my conception.

    • You'd need quad 4090's per eye to drive that at a convincing rate and never mind applying full RT. Any postprocessing gimmickry to address those issues will only increase frametimes...
      • by backslashdot ( 95548 ) on Monday February 06, 2023 @02:01PM (#63269543)

        Not with foveated rendering. With foveated rendering, which only renders the area you're looking at in high resolution, you need less GPU than is required for even HD resolution rendering. If you don't believe me that only a small portion of the screen needs to be rendered properly, tell me whether you can read this entire sentence without moving your eyeball.

    • Apple VR? It'll be fantastic, cost €4500 for the base model, an additional €500 for the tracking lighthouses unless you want the titanium ones which cost €1000, and cause nasty headaches when you "wear it wrong". It'll also have some serious flaws when you use it outside the Apple ecosystem.

      Full disclosure: happy iPhone user.
  • by Sebby ( 238625 ) on Monday February 06, 2023 @11:01AM (#63269043)

    Cook said on the call, noting that the iPhone has become "integral" to people's lives

    Seems like a misstep by Cook to admit they're basically becoming a monopoly; this will come back to haunt them in the future.

    • What he mentioned is what any smartphone (Android) can do. You could argue that between them, Apple and Android have an OS monopoly.
    • It's not a monopoly in the market, they just have a monopoly over customer's lives and attention spans.

    • they're basically becoming a monopoly

      22% market share is not a monopoly.

    • Monopoly, “You keep using that word. I do not think it means what you think it means.”

    • Consumers now use the device to make payments, control smart-home appliances, manage their health and store banking data,

      I do that on my $150 Android phone. Your point is?

      (I think his point is that his target market is "stupid people with too much money")

  • Nah man, these mooks still have some juice left to squeeze out. Call it high end and round the price up. Easy Peasy - Apple proabably
    • The problem is the naming. Pro and Pro Max already exist. What'll they call the new phone - Ultra (per TFS), Extreme, Extreme Pro Max Ultra? We're getting dangerously close to Windows naming schemes there...

    • Re:Squeeze it (Score:4, Interesting)

      by sound+vision ( 884283 ) on Monday February 06, 2023 @12:51PM (#63269331) Journal

      They have to keep revenue growing. They're scared of releasing anything much below the $400 mark. Having a phone at that price point might hurt their "premium" brand image, which is what keeps the whole enterprise viable. The same reason why Rolls-Royce will never release an $80,000 car, even though it would be a great car and their biggest seller.

      Since the smartphone market isn't growing anymore, they can only expand revenue by wild price increases at the top-end. The segment who buy things because they're the most expensive.

  • by Ritz_Just_Ritz ( 883997 ) on Monday February 06, 2023 @11:03AM (#63269049)

    Who is buying all these "premium" phones with no revolutionary improvements? After they satisfy the itch of people who will just buy the newest iPhone "just because," then what?

    • Who is buying all these "premium" phones with no revolutionary improvements? After they satisfy the itch of people who will just buy the newest iPhone "just because," then what?

      "Free Upgrades" for Verizon, ATT users, etc, drive some of this stuff. Of course, they aren't really free, as these users are paying outrageous amounts of money per month for these accounts. But for others, yes, there's a contingent out there that has to have the latest Apple stuff, and they'll pay through the nose to show it off. The Cult of Mac was always a marketing phenomenon, and it transferred to the Cult of iPhone.

      Me... I use the oldest one I can securely get by with. It does everything I need. And I

    • by _xeno_ ( 155264 )

      Beats me, but some people are, given that foldable phones have been selling in the $1500-$2000 price range.

      Now you could argue that being foldable is a "revolutionary improvement" so the comparison isn't really fair, but these phones tend to have worse overall specs because the foldable display takes up more of the overall phone's mass, meaning everything else has to be engineered around allowing the phone to fold.

      And, in fact, those phones may be exactly what Tim Cook is referring to. He sees people droppi

    • Who is buying all these "premium" phones with no revolutionary improvements?

      You may not consider them "revolutionary" but after you have had a phone for four years or more, buying a new phone gives you something that feels pretty darn impressive.

      That's who is buying them, people who eventually upgrade from older phones. Or just need new ones for whatever reason.

      • I buy used, 1 or 2 years old. I still get a big step up in hardware but with less of a price gouge, someone else can take the depreciation of new.

        • I buy used, 1 or 2 years old.

          Yeah see that is a great plan too, you are still getting some nice bumps whenever you get new phones, and re not that much behind in performance compared to the newer models.

          If I didn't do iPhone development professionally where newest models are pretty useful for testing, I'd probably do that as well.

          As it is I really should have last years model to test dynamic island stuff on hardware, but am waiting on new models this year...

    • by edwdig ( 47888 )

      Most cell service plans include a trade in deal that basically lets you get a new phone for free every 3 years if you trade in the old one. That's what drives the majority of upgrades.

      Yeah, the differences between one phone and the next model are small, but if you jump a couple years at a time the difference is pretty noticeable.

    • Those that can claim it as a business expense. So crooked managers and CEO types.
      • Us normal corporate drones too. My employer paid for my S22 Ultra so I can sit in my home office all day :)

    • Who is buying all these "premium" phones with no revolutionary improvements?

      Women.

      Both kinds.

  • While Cook wouldn't say if he anticipates further price increases, he made a good argument for why even more upscale iPhones could make sense -- especially if they deliver new features. Apple has internally discussed adding a higher-end iPhone to the top of its smartphone lineup

    I remember when Steve Jobs decided to keep things simple by having just a grid of 4 simple products; seems like Cook is intent on returning the Apple product grid back to Jobs-absent era.

  • by Maury Markowitz ( 452832 ) on Monday February 06, 2023 @11:07AM (#63269059) Homepage

    "Consumers now use the device to make payments, control smart-home appliances, manage their health and store banking data"

    And you can do all of that on an SE.

    I don't doubt that people will pay more for the upscale model as a status symbol. But they're not doing it for their smart home.

    • by skam240 ( 789197 )

      My thoughts exactly, all of the things listed there can be done on a phone costing a couple hundred bucks.

      For the life of me I have no idea why anyone who values their money would ever buy a brand new flagship phone from Apple or Samsung with what they charge.

      I still have a friend who has this driving need to own the newest smart phones meanwhile when things come up that require money (like say going out to have a few drinks) he's often a bit strapped for cash. Now he has a family and I don't so on one hand

      • I was rocking an original iPhone X until a couple of months ago. I would still be using it perfectly happily, and it had 80% battery capacity. Then my son dropped it on the one place in the entire house with a hard floor and broke the screen. That will teach me...

        It cost more to fix it than it was worth. Waited for the 14 announcement, and when it came out and I learned the new features were basically useless (perhaps more than useless in my case, I ski the bumps) I went and got a 13 the next day.

        I'll likel

    • And you can do all of that on an SE.

      And even on a [cough] cheap Android phone.

      His target market is "easily parted from their money" though, so he has to say things like that.

    • He is not saying that you have to spend that money for those features.. but that people would be willing to spend that kind of money BECAUSE they are using their phones literally constantly.. if you are always using a single device you are more likely to spend a few more bucks on it, so it feels solid with a great build quality and a thought through designs.. instead of some plastic toy which lags on every scroll..
      Granted, there are marginal gains between a 500 and 1500 usd device nowadays.. but if you use

    • by Pascoea ( 968200 )
      5000 pictures of their morning lattes, another 5000 of their avocado toast.
    • by gflash ( 6321000 )

      What do people put in it?

      You know that the iPhone can shoot in ProRes, don't you? That takes an imperial f**ton of space.

      As well, you know that cloud storage isn't free don't you? And some people may not want to store absolutely everything on their phone in the cloud?

  • ...who take the most expensive iPhone and still put gold and diamonds on it, there's a market.

  • by TFoo ( 678732 ) on Monday February 06, 2023 @11:34AM (#63269127)
    and I'll pay it. ESims are a carrier-dependent lockin and are a huge hassle.
  • by Pascoea ( 968200 ) on Monday February 06, 2023 @11:44AM (#63269167)
    My absolute favorite Samsung commercial. "If it looks the same, how will people know I upgraded?" [youtu.be]
  • An entire week of a person's life, for a portable communication device.
  • Not just higher end, higherer end!
  • Yeah, iPhones and smartphones in general have become "integral to people's lives" But you can do 99% of the things a high-end iPhone does with a 300$ Android. The camera will be worse and the CPU slower (but indistingishable so for most tasks and most regular Joes).
    If some people are willing to pay even more for top-model iPhones good for them. I won't be one of them
  • Yeah, Who WOULDN'T pay double for a brushed champagne finish that's smaller with less storage, as 93+Escort+Wagon says "Extreme Pro Max Ultra" model,
    to "get the best they can afford"??

    Does it fold?? Oh. sorry that was another announcement about something that MIGHT happen... NEXT YEAR.

    Could these announcements of POSSIBLE products that MIGHT come out at some unspecified time in the future, GET ANY MORE EXCITING !!! Woo wee!
  • Put me down as someone who is not interested. Yes, everything I currently have is Apple, but I have NEVER been on the "upgrade now" bandwagon, I reassess and then buy when the old one is DOA and not worth fixing. My phone useage is such I can probably go back to a dumb phone and be no worse off.
  • I just bought a new iPhone - it is marginal improvement over my 6 1/2 year old one. The prices are mad - my conclusion is that Apple are in for a big awakening and Tim has made a big misjudgement.
  • Re "In fact, consumers could probably be persuaded to spend more" Tim Cook need to see what percentage of the average person's income the average iPhone is. Yes, these are premium, but still....

  • Makes sense. There's certainly room for more differentiation between the "common" and "luxurious" ends of the smartphone market.

    Look at cars: regular folk in the market for a new car (to the degree regular folk are buying new and not used) might pay ~$30k for a Toyota Camry. A Ferrari/Lambo/Rolls/Bentley will set back the ultra wealthy of the world an order of magnitude more. Compare to smartphones, where the $1000 iPhone Pro I use day-to-day is fundamentally the same device that Jeff Bezos uses (with th

I tell them to turn to the study of mathematics, for it is only there that they might escape the lusts of the flesh. -- Thomas Mann, "The Magic Mountain"

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