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Biden Admin Report Criticizes Apple, Google App Stores (axios.com) 63

Posted by msmash from the tussle-continues dept.
A new Biden administration report describes Apple and Google as "gatekeepers" of mobile app stores and suggests legislation is needed to spur competition and give app makers and consumers more choices. From a report: The White House is pushing for tech antitrust action in the new Congress, with a new Department of Commerce report laying out what it sees as a harmful app store environment for both consumers and app makers. The report, from the National Telecommunications and Information Administration, is the Biden administration's fullest effort to lay out concerns about the app store ecosystem.

There is "real potential harm for consumers" in the way Apple and Google run their app stores, with the companies "inflating prices and reducing innovation," Alan Davidson, NTIA administrator, said in a call with reporters. "We're looking forward to seeing what legislation gets introduced on Capitol Hill.... Our hope is that this analysis can inform how people are thinking about these issues," he said. "We have a real opportunity to make progress on tech and competition in this Congress," said Bharat Ramamurti, deputy director of the National Economic Council. "We're highly committed to reform in this space and we will work closely with Congress to see whatever is possible."
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Biden Admin Report Criticizes Apple, Google App Stores More

Biden Admin Report Criticizes Apple, Google App Stores

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  • One of these things is not like the other (Score:5, Informative)

    by timeOday ( 582209 ) on Wednesday February 01, 2023 @02:07PM (#63257329)
    Android allows side-loading (no rooting required) which I think it is a pretty solid defense. (And something I have made use of).
    • More importantly, you can side-load complete app stores
      • First thing to side-load is F-Droid. I always install with the system file browser, which you have to give install rights. You should/should take those away, I guess. The second thing to install, from F-Droid, is Aurora Store. Not even a Google account needed on any Android, yet all banking and such works fine. Yeah, surely I've of these things is not like the other. (Bonus points for setting up Newpipe repository in F-Droid and installing it from there...)

    • Re: (Score:3, Insightful)

      by leonbev ( 111395 )

      Yeah, this shouldn't be something that should require a law. Shame on Apple if it does.

      Apple should "read the room", and finally offer an option to install third-party applications outside of the App Store from its Settings menu. Of course, they should also give a sufficient warning that doing so is a potential security risk and that you're voiding your warranty if a rogue application somehow bricks your device. While they're at it, they should probably add a way to remotely disable this feature on managed

      • Their argument is that consoles do this, and nobody says anything about this. One of the reasons i won't buy a console

        • Re: One of these things is not like the other (Score:5, Interesting)

          by Kitkoan ( 1719118 ) on Wednesday February 01, 2023 @02:30PM (#63257435)
          Thing is, I feel Apple killed that argument with their "What's a PC?" ad campaign. They showed that iOS is supposed to a full use computer and not a very limited device.

          A console (right or wrongly) is argued that it's designed to be limited and for limited functionality. Apple claimed with their ads iOS devices are for work and everything, meaning they can't claim that it's supposed to be a very narrow usage device like a console.

        • Re: (Score:2)

          by Sebby ( 238625 )

          Their argument is that consoles do this, and nobody says anything about this.

          I'd argue that consoles should also be subject to this, however one major difference between game consoles and smart phones is that smart phones are more "general computing" device, especially when they (Google,Apple) do ads like "there's an app for that" or "what's a PC?" to promote them as such.

          Given this positioning, there's some similarities in how anti-competitive Microsoft was in the 90s.

          • The ONLY thing that stops consoles being general computing systems is software.
            IIRC at some stage people were building supercomputers out of consoles.
            • Comment removed based on user account deletion
              • Yes, but as I say, the ONLY thing that stops consoles from being computers is software.
                An indépendant store would be allowed to supply/sell such software.
                If you want to claim you "own" it then it is up to you to do what you like with it, so it is not up to MS/Sony/Nintendo to say you can not.
                They may restrict those Apps from their store, but an alternative store can do what it likes.
                There is ZERO difference between IOS and consoles.

                https://phys.org/news/2010-12-... [phys.org]

            • Apparently, the only thing that keeps ANY modern device from being a general purpose computer is software...

              https://www.gamespot.com/artic... [gamespot.com]

            • Re: (Score:2)

              by Sebby ( 238625 )

              The ONLY thing that stops consoles being general computing systems is software.

              True, they're similarly "locked down" to whatever OS the manufacturer wants, and that is also consumer-hostile.

              • And if they are not locked down you are 100% responsible for their security.
                If you install 3rd party software that racks up thousands in micropayments during the night, that is your problem.
                And this WILL end up happening.

                • Re: (Score:2)

                  by Sebby ( 238625 )

                  Yes, I never claimed it had to be "them" covering everything if it's no longer their software on my device. Where did you get that idea?!?

                  • Because lots of parents already complain about their kids racking up huge debts on their "locked down" devices.
                    Open it up and the issue gets much much worse.
                    The average consumer will actually be worse of.
                    And lots of developers will also be worse off, particularly if their popular "app" name and icon get ripped off and malware gets sold under the identical moniker on a 3rd party store advertised though hacked web sites, spam, social media, etc.

                    • Re: (Score:2)

                      by Sebby ( 238625 )

                      Because lots of parents already complain about their kids racking up huge debts on their "locked down" devices.

                      ...because Apple and Google do such a good job [slashdot.org] preventing that anyways :rollseyes:

                    • Correct, and this will make the situation MUCH MUCH worse.
                      You may get what you want in a store in Vietnam cheap, but good lucking getting any money back.
                      You are now expecting the average home idiot to know about the security/reputations of various stores.
                      Just look at how bad Amazon is for fake merchandise.
                    • Tell me you're a clueless old fart that didn't bother reading the fucking link without telling me you're a clueless old fart that didn't bother reading the fucking link.

        • And even on Microsoft, if you sign up for a dev account you can sideload.

      • Most of the Apple user base probably donâ(TM)t want this.. otherwise they would have moved off years ago. I know some techies will go oh my wife / mom forces me to be on this platform and I would rather have access to side loading, but they are in a minority. Why force the issue? Itâ(TM)s the main differentiator between the ecosystems, especially when we hear how inferior and over priced the hardware is. We like the walls around our garden.. just let us sit in it and enjoy the quiet.

        • People don't buy Apple devices because of AppStore policies.... They buy them for the Apple logo and the blue (or is it green?) bubbles..

          • People don't buy Apple devices because of AppStore policies.

            Allowing 3rd party app stores and/or sideloading wouldn't require Apple to revise their own App Store polices. It could still remain just as walled and garden-y as before.

            Although, if the government is looking at Google too, it might be that they're considering it is the App Stores themselves which need a bit of policy loosening. That's why being stubbornly anti-competitive can bite you in the ass. Once Uncle Sam gets involved, you might not like his solution very much.

      • Re: (Score:2)

        by pacinpm ( 631330 )

        App should not be able to brick device. If if is it's the systems fault. In this case it means Apple fucked up.

    • True, but in reality the vast majority of people don't know that's even an option. Consumers believe you get apps from the Play Store. Period, end of story. Even those who _do_ know you can just download an APK have to be _super_ wary about what you actually install from an unknown source. If you're an app developer, there's basically no point in distributing outside Play unless you're aiming something at other developers, or, well. Porn stuff. It's still a monopoly that takes an outrageous cut of pa

      • If you don't know any other way to download apps (e.g. developer mode), then you are exactly the kind of user Google and Apple are trying to protect from downloading malicious apps. If you do know... then it's on you.
      • People complain about the 30% cut but I wonder how many developers would want to back to the days where they were lucky to get 30% cut and up fronted all the costs of development, marketting, packaging etc. before seeing the first sale.
        • Exactly.
          Side loading may even enable Apple to increase their cut.
          It will allow them to increase their rejection rates (ie you can go elsewhere)
          "Oh you left us, yeah sorry, we don't want you back" will also be an option.
          A few high profile hacked phones because of badly run 3rd party stores will push consumers back to Apple, as well as developers, they will to to where the customers are.
          A few high profile stores that get hacked and peoples credit card details end up on the dark web will also change reali
          • These comments are rubbish. For the parent comment, nobody is suggesting we go back to the days before the app stores. And if devs stopped using the app store en masse, they've already experienced both ways, I'm sure they'd at least try to figure out how they'd prefer to operate without the hinderances of the past haunting them. Considering devs are generally good at problem solving, they get the benefit of the doubt. For this comment, Apple is allowed to increase their fees or their rejection rates, for
            • And yet the google store has far more malware than the Apple store.
              • The contents of the stores themselves isnâ(TM)t something I was focused on. If I want to develop an app that passes all scans and even appears to operate legitimately, but inject malicious payloads selectively, neither store is equipped to stop that. Scanning for and gating obvious malware is great, but only gets us so far. For that, Android, while perceptibly worse, can improve and try to meet or exceed expectations there are of Appleâ(TM)s store. Devs can write code for both platforms which comp
    • On the one hand, I agree with you. On the other, I think it's because the Play Store is the default and only preloaded option on Android. Google prevents another option from being preloaded before the consumer gets the device. (Before it's mentioned, yes Windows has their store preloaded, but some OEMs will preload other stores like Steam).

      This is a slippery slope here. While I agree people should be allowed options of other apps stores, but if this is being made to force others onto the default installatio

      • Re: (Score:2)

        by NFN_NLN ( 633283 )

        > Google prevents another option from being preloaded before the consumer gets the device.

        My Samsung phone had some bullshit samsung store that was used to update their bullshit samsung apps that came with it.
        Yes, it was running Android.

      • Re: (Score:2)

        by Zak3056 ( 69287 )

        Google prevents another option from being preloaded before the consumer gets the device.

        IIRC, that's simply not true. Google's big "monopoly position" is that if you want the Google ecosystem, you get the whole thing (e.g. if you want the Play store, you get gmail, gmaps, etc, and, conversely, if you want gmail, ggmaps, etc, you get the Play store). As noted by NFN_NLN, device manufacturers are free to load their own app stores.

    • Android allows side-loading (no rooting required) which I think it is a pretty solid defense. (And something I have made use of).

      These are basically the same people who had trouble with the concept that Facebook makes money by running ads. You're really expecting too much of our government if you expect them to realize that Android allows sideloading.

    • Re: (Score:3)

      by Altus ( 1034 )

      Possibly for both of them... The argument is that side loading will spur innovation that the app stores are stifling. There should be significant evidence of this in the Android eco system. If there isn't a thriving side loading market there, why do we think there will be on iOS?

      Im sure a ton of people will chime in with their favorite side load app but an app used by slashdot geek doesn't make a thriving economic ecosystem. If its not used by the general public then its not going to have the kind of eco

  • Phone apps need gatekeepers to prevent idiots from downloading malicious apps! If you ask Apple and Google, that's the excuse they will give you.
    • 4-row keyboard for iOS is one I've been wanting forever...

    • They just want to take advantage of Google's massive install base without paying anything.

      They want Google to eat all the costs of developing, supporting, and improving the platform while they skim the profits off the top.

      One can quibble over the standard cut Google charges, but arguing they deserve nothing at all [1] is pretty specious.

      (The same argument applies mostly to Apple too, except apple famously makes money the hardware sales, whereas for most Android devices, Google gets $0)

      [1] The entire point o

      • This argument can be applied to any OS, and history has shown that an OS needs access to apps, even if the OS maker isn't making money from each sale.
        OSes need these options, they don't need to host them (so they shouldn't be forced to host them for free on their own app store), but they need access to app sources. It's not mooching, it's a symbiotic relationship.

        • Re: (Score:2)

          by Pizza ( 87623 )

          ...Not any OS, just the ones given away for free.

          You can't ship an iOS or MacOS product without getting a cease-and-desist from Apple's lawyers. You can't ship a Windows product without paying Microsoft for the OS. I'm not saying MS charges very much money, but it's infinitely more than the zero Google gets.

          Anyone can ship a product built on Android without paying Google a penny. But if you want to take advantage of Google's services (store, accounts, provisioning, updates, etc etc) someone's going to ha

      • Pfft. Poor Google! Just think, if they didn't get a cut of every app purchase, they might have to actually... *gasp* innovate. I wonder how M$ ever made it this far without charging to install apps on Windows. :eye_roll:
  • Now is the time for Microsoft to bring back windows phone/ windows mobile. The interface is still better than anything out there, and they could get traction in this market.

    • Windows Phone was just as locked down as iOS. Because Microsoft had trouble attracting developers, their app store was a miserable experience.

      Also horizontally scrolled menus, ugh.

  • play the red china card and say that side loading (Score:3)

    by Joe_Dragon ( 2206452 ) on Wednesday February 01, 2023 @02:57PM (#63257561)

    play the red china card and say that side loading is needed to install apps that are found in the main store in the USA

    • play the red china card and say that side loading is needed to install apps that are found in the main store in the USA

      For an instant there I thought you were going to suggest screaming "SIDE-LOADING IS COMMUNISM!!". That would be a ridiculous claim but probably very effective propaganda wise if you don't like side-loading. Calling anything 'communism' in the US is likely to get it banned with a minimum of prior deliberation..

  • "Freedom from porn" (Score:5, Insightful)

    by Sebby ( 238625 ) on Wednesday February 01, 2023 @03:22PM (#63257685)

    Steve Jobs famously said that users would have "freedom from porn" when announcing the app store.

    To me, that line sounded like "freedom from choice [of what you can do with your own device]". A decade later, rings even more true.

    • Considering that I can't get a farking handicap parking space anymore, I'm pretty sure Steve, may he rest in peace on a bed of pineapples, rubbed off on a few people.

  • From the
    Amazon App Store

  • Two parties (Score:4, Insightful)

    by registrations_suck ( 1075251 ) on Wednesday February 01, 2023 @05:37PM (#63258139)

    That's rich, considering the office Biden holds is determined by only two choices: the Democrats or the Republicans.

    How about giving is some better choices in that department, you fucking piece of shit!

  • The Green Bubble status of non-Apple users creates a hostile environment where non-apple-participants are discriminated against, where pictures are crushed low-res and the perps (the apple owners) eliminated from discussions by apple owners. This needs to be addressed. We don't need the division. What other tricks are used to crush interoperability? Access to apple photos?

  • Walled gardens are not great, but I think for the average iOS device user this is a really good feature to prevent them from shooting themselves in the foot.
    When they break this open, we will see the same lunacy we are desperately trying to contain on PC with malware and all sorts of Spyware, adware and other nonsense you do not want.
    So far, this super evil apple App Store has at least helped prevent the worst possible outcome.

    And no, making it opt-in will not help. Panicking scammed users will click on ANY

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