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Portables (Apple) Security Apple

Perfectly Good MacBooks From 2020 Are Being Sold For Scrap Because of Activation Lock (vice.com) 222

2-year-old MacBooks with Apple's T2 security chip are being turned into parts because recyclers have no way to login and factory reset the machines, reports Motherboard. "It's a boon for security and privacy and a plague on the second hard market." From the report: "How many of you out there would like a 2-year-old M1 MacBook? Well, too bad, because your local recycler just took out all the Activation Locked logic boards and ground them into carcinogenic dust," John Bumstead, a MacBook refurbisher and owner of the RDKL INC repair store, said in a recent tweet. First introduced in 2018, the laptop makes it impossible for anyone who isn't the original owner to log into the machine. "Like it has been for years with recyclers and millions of iPhones and iPads, it's pretty much game over with MacBooks now -- there's just nothing to do about it if a device is locked," Bumstead told Motherboard. "Even the jailbreakers/bypassers don't have a solution, and they probably won't because Apple proprietary chips are so relatively formidable." When Apple released its own silicon with the M1, it integrated the features of the T2 into those computers.

"The functionality of T2 is built into Apple silicon, so it's the same situation. But whereas T2 with activation lock is basically impossible to overcome, bypass developers are finding the m1/m2 chips with activation lock even more difficult," Bumstead said. "Many bypassers have claimed solutions to T2 macs (I have not tried or confirmed they work... I am skeptical) but they admit they have had no success with M1. Regardless, a bypassed Mac is a hacked machine, which reverts to the lock if wiped and reset, so it is not ethical to sell bypassed macs in the retail environment."

Responsible recyclers and refurbishers wipe the data from used devices before selling them on. In these cases, the data is wiped, but cannot be assigned to a new user, making them effectively worthless. Instead of finding these machines a second home, Bumstead and others are dismantling them and selling the parts. These computers often end up at recycling centers after corporations go out of business or buy all new machines. [...] Motherboard first reported on this problem in 2020, but Bumstead said it's gotten worse recently. "Now we're seeing quantity come through because companies with internal 3-year product cycles are starting to dump their 2018/2019s, and inevitably a lot of those are locked," he said.
"When we come upon a locked machine that was legally acquired, we should be able to log into our Apple account, enter the serial and any given information, then click a button and submit the machine to Apple for unlocking," Bumstead said. "Then Apple could explore its records, query the original owner if it wants, but then at the end of the day if there are no red flags and the original owner does not protest within 30 days, the device should be auto-unlocked."
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Perfectly Good MacBooks From 2020 Are Being Sold For Scrap Because of Activation Lock

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  • Stolen? (Score:5, Insightful)

    by zshXx ( 7123425 ) on Tuesday January 24, 2023 @07:07PM (#63237666)
    Wait, won't they be stolen and shit? In that case, i would like them rot rather then benefit a thief ( I know i am an a***)
    • Re: Stolen? (Score:5, Insightful)

      by saloomy ( 2817221 ) on Tuesday January 24, 2023 @07:22PM (#63237708)
      No you are not. They are doing exactly what they should be doing. How did this bozo get the laptop? Who did he pay for it? Moreover, who is getting rid of a 2020 M1 laptop? These are stolen. A legitimate sale or repair, you remove the lock on the device. Even the Apple Store has you do that when you repair or trade in your iPhone or they will not accept it. No one is throwing these out to be recycled. These are being stolen and the thieves realize they can not unlock them so they go to a trash bin or recycling yard. Real second hand markets wipe and release the laptops.
      • Re: Stolen? (Score:5, Informative)

        by MikeDataLink ( 536925 ) on Tuesday January 24, 2023 @07:36PM (#63237758) Homepage Journal

        Real second hand markets wipe and release the laptops.

        Correct. The last IT shop I worked for had a process by where all Apple devices being returned from lease/sold/recycled had to be unlocked and reset to factory settings.

      • Re: Stolen? (Score:5, Interesting)

        by ravenshrike ( 808508 ) on Tuesday January 24, 2023 @07:45PM (#63237780)

        How hard is it to RTFS? Most of the ones being discussed are businesses updating their internal computers from 2018/19, which can't be arsed to wipe everything. The computers that popped up in 2020 were probably mostly stolen, but those are not the ones currently at issue. Whereas the proposed solution makes things pretty simple. Your laptop is stolen, you note that on your Apple account the laptop is connected too, and it can no longer be unlocked by someone else with an apple account without the original account password.

        • Re: Stolen? (Score:2, Insightful)

          by saloomy ( 2817221 )
          Even if so, whomever gets these computers from the business surely knows (at best by the second time) not to pay without verifying the device is eligible for sale / transfer to new owner. What is the alternative? Lower security for everyone else? No. Fuck that. If you steal my laptop, I want it ground to carcinogenic dust because fuck you. Thats why.
          • Re: Stolen? (Score:5, Informative)

            by Immerman ( 2627577 ) on Tuesday January 24, 2023 @08:24PM (#63237876)

            > What is the alternative?
            How about *exactly* what was suggested in the article? How does that lower security?

            Request a reset from Apple, let them verify with the registered owner, and if no objection is lodged within a month (or whatever grace period), unlock the thing.

            If you want to screw the person who stole your laptop, just say "No" when Apple asks you to authorize an ownership transfer. Or preemptively report it as stolen.

            • by drnb ( 2434720 ) on Tuesday January 24, 2023 @11:48PM (#63238220)
              It relies upon the owner reporting the Mac to Apple as stolen. So thieves will benefit by whatever rate owners fail to do so.

              Unlike the alternative where the buyer has the owner unlock, reset to factory, and has a Mac prompting for an Apple ID to configure (lock) the system with.

              And expecting Apple to contact the original owner is ridiculous. (1) They are not part of the transaction. They already provide a solution, factory reset. (2) The buyer is already in contact with the supposed owner.
              • They are part of the transaction because they inserted themselves into the middle of it. I fully agree with most of the concept behind activation lock it even gave one of employees a small amount of piece of mind that the phone that was stolen out of his car was useless to the thief (though he much rather would have just had the phone).

                But it would be nice if there was a way to contact the owner and ask them to release the device. Obviously Apple isn’t going to give that contact information to the new

                • by narcc ( 412956 )

                  That doesn't help when the original owner is locked out of their device. This is an incredibly common problem.

                  See, a lot of people will create a new account every time they get a new phone because they can't be bothered to recover their old account with a long-forgotten password. If they get a new phone number (which a lot of people do regularly for reasons I could even begin to guess) then they've also lost their ability to recover their old password and thus have no way to verify that they are, in fact,

                  • It's a pain in the ass, and I recently had to go through this for the exact-fucking-reason you gave, because my step mother is one of the people who do that.

                    But it is do-able. It just requires spending a lot of time on the fucking phone with Apple Support.
            • by N1AK ( 864906 )

              How about *exactly* what was suggested in the article? How does that lower security?

              You may not thing it makes much difference but I suspect you already know at least some of the reasons: 1. If someone can impersonate the original owner to authorise 2. If the original owner doesn't become aware of the request within the objection period. Neither of these are that unlikely because it's not like everyone keeps contact info with Apple 100% accurate or never buys the devices for other people.

              The current solu

        • No sane business is throwing out 2018 MacBooks, especially in the current economic climate. A $2500+ MacBook better go for at least 5-7 years.

          Authorized recyclers request access to the MDM for removing the management locks on devices, both Dell and Apple. Recyclers that donâ(TM)t have a data destruction program should not do business recycling.

          These are stolen or the primary recycler couldnâ(TM)t be bothered to fix them so they sold them explicitly for parts. And according to Louis Rossman there s

          • Re: (Score:2, Interesting)

            by Anonymous Coward

            K12 here, we're cycling out 2018s and not keeping them all, lower battery healths are going to a reseller.

            Supposedly our techs always get everyone signed out of icloud. One by one. I'm sure they never forget that step during the other 15 pages of instructions we give them for cycling.

            Keep pretending TFA is just liars and everything is stolen. Keep running those emoji quotes too. But go back to twitter first.

          • Re: Stolen? (Score:5, Interesting)

            by narcc ( 412956 ) on Wednesday January 25, 2023 @01:58AM (#63238388) Journal

            2018 MacBooks [...] A $2500+ MacBook better go for at least 5-7 years.

            2023 - 2018 = 5

          • Laptops get replaced every three years usually.

      • by stripes ( 3681 )

        Moreover, who is getting rid of a 2020 M1 laptop? These are stolen.

        Most of the time, yes. A small number may have belonged to someone who died, and while I believe Apple has a process to remove the activation lock from those (involving the death certificate), bereaved families may not want to jump through those hoops after that sort of even, even for a $1000-$3000 laptop (they may not even realize the price, or that Apple has a process to get it unlocked).

        That said, if the proposed "Apple should use the

        • Apple has their own buyback program and their service providers coordinate with sellers on wiping. If cannot unlock they can recycle parts instead of reuse. Lowers buyback values. Apples prices are not bad. Probably not best but they want happy repeat customers so try to make it ok. This is more for individual vs enterprises but the same companies that do services for Apple have their independent buyback operations. Ex Likewise formerly Brightstar. The little independent dealers will struggle more and shoul
      • There may be an argument to be had that at least some of these are not stolen but rather replaced with M2 Macbooks since those came out (and there are tech companies out there that will updgrade), however yes, most of these are likely to be stolen since the M1 is still such a formidable machine.

        At the same time one would think that M1 Macbooks that are part of a replacement program with M2 silicone would be unlocked and already reset when they reach a used machine store since those companies would likely ha

    • by v1 ( 525388 )

      Why would you buy a car without getting the key? If it's a newer car, that's gonna be an expensive key to replace.

      This is vastly lowering the value of the product to the thief, greatly lowering the fence value and making them re-assess the risk-to-benefit of stealing a macbook. The same thing is happening to cell phones, they're not targeted by thieves nearly as much as they used to be because they can't get much or anything at all for them.

      This is llke complaining about the cost of replacing the key on t

      • by sjames ( 1099 )

        If you're a business you might legally repo a car without the key.

        • by v1 ( 525388 )

          then you continue like you'd do with any partial repossession, you continue to work to get back the rest of your property. No different than if you got back the car and the stereo was gone. decide if its worth the effort, and if it is, continue to pursue it.

    • Re: (Score:2, Informative)

      by drkshadow ( 6277460 )

      RTFA is unpopular, so that must be why they started putting everything in the summary.

      These computers often end up at recycling centers after corporations go out of business or buy all new machines.

      End-of-life, according to a corporate contract. The corporation doesn't want to invest more money into it, so they dump it for recycling. Instead of being re-usable, however, now they're reduced to raw materials -- but most of that is too toxic to separate and process, so they're just trash.

      • by N1AK ( 864906 )
        It may be true but any company throwing away 1-2 year old Macs worth $3k (articles figures) is incompetent given how trivial either trading it in or unlocking and selling or donating is; and ask yourself this, is any company that would rather throw $3k away rather than sell it or give it to someone else when they throw it out going to decide "yeah sure" when they get a request a couple of months later from someone they don't know to allow it to be unlocked?

        I'd like to see some evidence that this is a com
  • This is dumbassery. They're buying used, locked laptops then complaining that they're locked. Duh! I wonder what percent of these are stolen. 75%?

    • Re: (Score:2, Informative)

      by dgatwood ( 11270 )

      This is dumbassery. They're buying used, locked laptops then complaining that they're locked. Duh! I wonder what percent of these are stolen. 75%?

      ~100% would be my guess. Approximately nobody is going to replace a 2020 MacBook yet. That's only 26 months old.

      • Owner dies?

        • by dgatwood ( 11270 )

          Owner dies?

          There's an existing process for that. The executor of the will brings a certified copy of the death certificate, proof of executorship, and proof of identity. With that, any Apple store will be able to wipe the device and disassociate it from the Apple ID. At that point, it is indistinguishable from a new device.

          If the executor also brings a court order ordering Apple to grant access to the Apple ID, the executor will also have access to iCloud backups, iTunes purchases, etc. (but not the actual contents

    • Bankrupt startups (Score:3, Informative)

      by ghoul ( 157158 )
      I am assuming these are from estate sales of startups that went belly up (probably because they bought 3000 dollar macbooks instead of 1000 dollar PC laptops). The IT guy probably got laid off too so he/she cant be bothered to wipe these laptops.
      • Any recycler worth their salt would get a bill of sale then and get the recovery key from Apple if not already contracted to have access to them.

        Professional recyclers know damn well what theyâ(TM)re doing. Theyâ(TM)ll even yell at you for removing the RAM and SSD. All these devices are stolen by some crackhead that hasnâ(TM)t realized yet theyâ(TM)re worthless.

    • 100% stolen.  Since they as a business should have asked the legit owner to turn off activation lock.  Which state are they in? someone should get the state AG to look into that biz for fencing stolen goods.
  • Laptops, tablets, and cell phones are quick smash/grab targets for thieves. They sell out immediately to a middleman or a fence who then tries to flip them for more. Your high-dollar electronics get sold for pennies on the dollar. Car smash and grabs are so bad people are leaving their cars open, including trunks and lift gates to let thieves know there's nothing inside. [newsweek.com]

    • Did you make this up yourself, or did you hear it on some dumb-ass right wing propaganda site? Or are you clinically paranoid?

      I live in a major metropolitan area, and I have never head anything about this. I don't know anyone who does this. Everyone I see routinely locks their cars. You can see it being done when they get out of their vehicles, or when they walk up to their cars and remotely unlock them. The lights flash and sometime it makes a beep.

      I have never been to the universe you live in, and for t

      • In San Francisco, the problem has gotten so bad that I know people with cars that have been broken into six or more times in one year. Itâ(TM)s very bad here. People do leave their doors unlocked and windows down here. Not everyone. But more than you would think. Laptops are one of the main targets. Anyhow, before Apple activation locked iPhones, we had theft rings and muggings over iPhones. I have witnessed at least three. I know a guy that was mugged at gun point. Locking the parts made them even l
  • by jasonssecretaccount ( 10215377 ) on Tuesday January 24, 2023 @07:26PM (#63237732)
    Regardless of if these are stolen or not, back doors are a BAD idea regardless of if Apple or Google or the FBI or someone else holds the keys.
    • Granting anyone except the previous owner the ability to unlock the system is indeed a bad idea. But there could be a way to generate a new encryption key such that the system can be wiped and reinstalled for someone new to use.

    • NOT AT ALL - this is simply to unlock access to the machine not to decrypt everything. What they need is a backdoor to factory reset.

  • These laptops are locked because the owner did not unlock and factory reset them. If these were legitimate transactions that would have been done. So these recyclers all but admitted to dealing in stolen goods.
    • Re: (Score:3, Informative)

      by zephvark ( 1812804 )

      Nope. I got an iPad as a hand-me-down from my Dad. He managed to remember the main password, so I can boot it up. However, he has no idea what the Apple ID or whatever is. This means that I can't reset the machine at all, and it's permanently stuck with his personal data that can't be removed. Call this a "security feature" if you like but, it looks like a mandatory obsolescence scheme. My best bet is to hit it repeatedly with a large hammer and discard the pieces in separate trash cans.

      • by njvack ( 646524 ) <njvack@freshforever.net> on Tuesday January 24, 2023 @09:34PM (#63237998)

        If you can unlock it, you should be able to go into Settings to see the Apple ID it's activated with. I think it's always the top option; the label has changed with OS versions, though. If he doesn't remember the password, it's fairly likely you'll be able to use Apple's tools to reset it — you'll need to go through some steps to verify the account ownership. If you trust clicking a Slashdot link link to reset your Apple ID (I might not, myself), you're looking for https://iforgot.apple.com/pass... [apple.com]. Searching the web for "reset apple id password" should get you to the same place.

        Anyhow — if you can get into the Settings app and actually have access to the Apple ID's owner (and they set it up with actual question answers and such) you should have some routes to fully wipe the device and set it up from scratch, no hammer involved.

        There may be some additional routes you and your Dad could access by going to an Apple store in person, but you really should be able to do this all over the web and/or phone.

        • by narcc ( 412956 )

          If you don't have access to the email or phone number associated with your account, odds are against you being able to recover your account. People are just as likely, it seems to forget their security question answers as their passwords. What is the name of your favorite pet? Did you put the state as well when you answered the 'city you were born in' question? I've seen people fail to recover their account this way minutes after creating it.

      • For every person like your Dad, there's someone out there that's glad that their stolen lap is inaccessible to whoever stole it. And that drives the value of a stolen Mac down, so hopefully fewer of them are stolen.

        I'm sorry that your Dad didn't write this stuff down or whatever, but that's really on him.

        (This is, incidentally, why Apple never turned on end-to-end encryption for absolutely everything until recently, even though they could have. One of their most common customer service complaints is a forgo

      • by ghoul ( 157158 )
        If you are logged on to a Macbook you can reset the Apple ID password. So just rest your Dad's AppleID password.
        • by narcc ( 412956 )

          Are you sure about that? Does Dad have the same phone number and can that line receive text messages? Does he remember the answers to his security questions? Dad didn't even know what an Apple ID was. The odds of recovery are not in his favor.

      • Possible the device never had activation lock, you can check in the findmy app.
    • by narcc ( 412956 )

      If these were legitimate transactions that would have been done.

      Not even close. I'd be willing to bet most people selling their Mac or handing it down don't even know that this is something that can be done, let alone something they should do.

  • A friend gave me an old android tablet (a ZTC something or other) because I wanted something bigger than my phone for ebooks. The problem was, he hadn't used it in years, and couldn't remember the passcode, so I couldn't get into it, even with a full wipe (which apparently, you don't need the passcode to do).

  • Where can I buy one prior to being locked? I never resell my old computer stuff. It it was mine, and now for sale, it's because someone stole it. When I'm finished with electronics, I either repurpose it myself, or it's ground up and melted down.

  • by alms ( 871430 ) on Tuesday January 24, 2023 @09:17PM (#63237980)
    A few years ago my house was broken into. The thieves stole all the Macs, but they left a bunch of iPhones and iPads that we had lying around because they knew they couldn't do anything with them. Maybe next time they won't bother to take the Macs, either. This is one case where I welcome our new security overlords. If we're lucky, Apple will get into the bicycle business next.
  • Not wanting to but accepting that Apple will never unlock an iCloud locked device:

    1: If you are charging to recycle computers, charge more for locked ones.
    2: If they are lease returns, charge the destroyed item fee for any that aren't reusable.
    3: If you are the purchaser, check before you accept the delivery. Never buy "as is." In computer recycling parlance, that means "broken."

    That way whoever is responsible for selling the locked computer will be responsible for paying for the fact that it's e-waste.
  • If they are locked, chances are they were stolen. And if that's the case, shouldn't they be working with Apple to make sure there is a system in place to reunite stolen goods with their owners? But I guess resellers feel it makes more sense to complain and get a click bait article, rather that do the right thing.

  • by NoMoreACs ( 6161580 ) on Wednesday January 25, 2023 @11:29AM (#63239484)

    Does every single thing Apple does have to be spun in the most negative way possible?

    Sure seems like that around here.

    Grow up.

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