Telegram CEO Accuses Apple of Destroying Dreams and Crushing Entrepreneurs (macrumors.com) 54
Telegram's CEO has accused Apple of destroying dreams and ruining entrepreneurship with its App Store rules, more specifically, the company's 30% commission levied on in-app purchases for developers who make over $1 million a year. From a report: Writing on his Telegram channel, Pavel Durov said that Apple had informed the messaging platform that it would not be able to allow content creators to use third-party payment methods for sales. Telegram allows content creators to offer access to channels or individual posts through a paywall users could pay for with a third-party payment method and not Apple's in-app purchasing system. Durov said Apple is not "happy with content creators monetizing their efforts without paying a 30% tax" and that Telegram has no choice but to disable paid posts and channels on its iOS app. "This is just another example of how a trillion-dollar monopoly abuses its market dominance at the expense of millions of users who are trying to monetize their own content," Durov continued.
They can't do what Amazon does? (Score:2)
Amazon bypassed Apple's 30% tax by making customers use a website (mobile-themed) instead of an app for purchases.
What is different in Telegram's case?
Re: They can't do what Amazon does? (Score:3)
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Have you tried to make an instant messenger that focuses on privacy and that they cannot decrypt your shit for anyone... present your decrypted content on their own website
And who is the payment processor changes none of that. Apple processes a payment and sends a verifiable receipt. Apple remains outside the circle of trust with respect to content and its encryption. Apple merely says "they paid the bill, you can send them your content".
Not if you Dream to Destroy Dreams....? (Score:2)
Millions of Telegram posters make more than $1mm? (Score:1)
Cuz that's all this affect, right? I'm not a fan of Apple's paywall but this is a tough banner to raise - 'Fight for the millionaires!!'
Re:Millions of Telegram posters make more than $1m (Score:4, Interesting)
Does this mean 1 million net profit, or 1 million gross? After expenses the take-home may be much more modest for these businesses.
Anyway, there is NO WAY that 30% commissions are needed to run the app store. That is excessive greed with no justification beyond "because I can." Lowering that to ten percent would be an enormous relief for developers and still rake in a significant profit for Apple. It will also reduce a barrier-to-entry so there is possibility that some or all of the profit loss from this 20% reduction would be made-up for in volume.
Re: Millions of Telegram posters make more than $1 (Score:2)
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Does this mean 1 million net profit, or 1 million gross? After expenses the take-home may be much more modest for these businesses.
Anyway, there is NO WAY that 30% commissions are needed to run the app store. That is excessive greed with no justification beyond "because I can." Lowering that to ten percent would be an enormous relief for developers and still rake in a significant profit for Apple. It will also reduce a barrier-to-entry so there is possibility that some or all of the profit loss from this 20% reduction would be made-up for in volume.
Fairly obvious that it's revenue... And when you're doing transactions of less than a dollar, 30% will barely be paying the card fees in a place like Europe where fees are regulated, let alone in places like the US or Australia where Visa/MC/AMEX et al. get a free reign to charge the merchant what they like. Yes, for every $1 you spend at apple, Apple will be lucky to receive $0.70 after the merchant service fees are done.
I hate Apple as much as the next person with half a brain and a modicum of self re
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You do know that $1M in revenue does not mean that one is a millionaire, right?
"sponsored posts" are Social Media Spam (Score:2)
They're unsolicited content, just like the spam marketing calls on your phone.
Good for Apple for charging the buggers that put their 'sponsored' spam into a social media feed!
its funny (Score:1)
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It’s funny how the only people who complain are huge companies who are sad they can’t make even more money.
The App Store cut is brilliant value for everyone else, and they are who we should care about.
Exactly This.
Re: its funny (Score:3)
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Odd, so you LIKE paying 30% more for exactly the same thing everyone else is?
Yes.
From the start Apple said "Hey want to make more money than zero dollars? Here you go"
Now millionaires are complaining that the more than zero dollars they are currently making isn't enough more than zero dollars.
As someone that doesn't even have a million dollars, their plight to make even more doesn't exactly tug at my heart strings.
Precisely.
Nobody seems to remember the bad old days; when SMALL Developers got nearly zero sales; because no one could find their shit to even KNOW to buy it.
As the Parent says: Just like with those idiots at Epic, this is nothing more than Meelionaires complaining that, at 70% PROFIT, their piles of Cash aren't high enough!
FFS.
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Odd, I buy tons of games from Steam, have no trouble finding the games I want and pay exactly the same OR LESS if there's a sale, than I would in other retailers or from the game's storefront. Plus I don't have to go through Steam's store because I want to buy my character a cool skin. It's called "competition" kids. Apple competes with no one on their phones, they are not looking out for you.
Excuse me.
It is the Developers that have sole control over the price (across a level-playing-field of 70% Gross Profit (actually, 85% for almost all smaller Devs. and all long-term Subscriptions), regardless of the Developer and App vs. IAP type) of their Apps and IAPs on the Apple App Stores.
And still No Fee Whatsoever to Freeware Apps; with all the exact-same Hosting, Page Creation, Review-Tracking, Download and Update Handling, etc. as the "Paying" Accounts. . .
So who needs multiple "competing" Distribut
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I don't LIKE paying 30% more, but honestly for most of what I buy via the app store ( $5) I wouldn't notice. I'm not saying Durov is wrong -- I haven't really thought about it. But 30% on a few bucks is probably rounding error for most people walking around with Apple phones.
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You are not paying 30% more anyway.
The shop has 30% less turn over, and there fore saves:
* billing costs
* payment costs
* refund costs
* tax preparation time/costs
etc. p.p.
From a point of view of a shop 30% might be a bit to much, but 15% - 20% they would have costs anyway, so the real Apple cut is only 10%
That might have changed with sinking credit card fees etc. - no idea.
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As a user, I do care where it goes if that revenue means the purchase I'm making for an ongoing thing I'll be using won't be wasted due to the service provider I'm purchasing from is unable to keep the lights on due to Apple extorting them for 30% when it only costs them 3% or so for the actual payment processing.
I get Apple charging 30% if their CDN and everything else is in use, but for just payment processing it's fucking theft and you know it. Even AMEX and their higher processing fees are a laugher of
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As a user, I do care where it goes if that revenue means the purchase I'm making for an ongoing thing I'll be using won't be wasted due to the service provider I'm purchasing from is unable to keep the lights on due to Apple extorting them for 30% when it only costs them 3% or so for the actual payment processing.
I get Apple charging 30% if their CDN and everything else is in use, but for just payment processing it's fucking theft and you know it. Even AMEX and their higher processing fees are a laugher of a bargain in comparison.
Extorting?
Nobody is forcing those corporations from developing Apple-compatible Apps.
Typical sense of Entitlement.
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Please tell me how "we can pay Apple 30% to sit in the middle and do nothing, or we can cut our potential market by 50%" is not extortion.
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Please tell me how "we can pay Apple 30% to sit in the middle and do nothing, or we can cut our potential market by 50%" is not extortion.
Same as "I could pay the membership fee to that golf club, or I could not golf there", isn't extortion, either.
Same as "I could join the Union to work at that 'Union Shop' for $50/hr'; or I could find a job at a non-Union shop for $25/hr. and not pay Union Dues", isn't extortion, either.
Same as "I could order that Ribeye Steak for $40 at a Restaurant, or I could buy that Ribeye at the Grocery for $20 and cook it myself", isn't extortion, either.
In each case, it is a matter of "Their Club; their Rules", Comr
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Please tell me how "we can pay Apple 30% to sit in the middle and do nothing, or we can cut our potential market by 50%" is not extortion.
Oh, and Apple hardly "Sits in the middle and does nothing."
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Exactly. apple is busy stealing apps ideas and rolling them into ios. Stealing code takes money
Sorry to deflate your ego; but 99.999999998% of all Apps consist of either things that have been done before (generally, dozens of times), and/or embarassingly-bad craptastic design and/or coding.
Who wants to pore through that mountainous pile of dung just to find the occasional morsel of undigested steak?
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Odd, so you LIKE paying 30% more for exactly the same thing everyone else is?
You don't understand how ALL Businesses work, do you?
Come back when you learn something about Economics.
Google also charges 30% after first million (Score:2)
Odd, so you LIKE paying 30% more for exactly the same thing everyone else is?
We don't. Google also charges 30% after first million.
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You can use Amazon's store front on Google devices. Or Ted's store front, if Ted wants to make one and compete. Or you can buy direct from the app developer.
Buyers lose any security benefit there is from the Google Play Store. Plus what makes you think it is any cheaper on the vendor store?
Sellers lose a lot of potential sales not being on the Google Play Store.
And sellers lose a few more sales for those that try to side load and are given a bit warning by Android about potential malware. Remember the election fiasco where various election officials never ran the software prior to election night, and were afraid to install after seeing this generic warnin
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Survival instinct.
Anyone paying the Apple tax runs the risk of getting run out of business by first party competition whenever Apple feels like it, because Apple can turn a profit with 30% less revenue.
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It's even funnier when someone tries to justify anticompetitive practices and quasi-extortion from the most valuable company on the planet, because the people complaining aren't mom and pop shops who can't afford to complain and wouldn't be listened to even if they did.
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the only people who complain are huge companies
The only people who complain and get articles written about it are huge companies, because that's the way media tends to work. Plenty of individual and smaller development companies objected to the flat 30% cut for everybody, and I'm sure there are plenty that still object to Apple's 15% or 30% cut.
Wargames (Score:2)
"The best move is not to play [appstore development]"
I have been trying to decide which is more risky, developing smartphone apps, or developing "indie" games
At least with indie games you always have the option of selling them directly off your own website, but kickstarter, steam, gog and a million other market places will generally take your app in exchange for a tiny fraction of the sales price. The downside is that pc games are a fairly small market.
On the other hand, with smartph
My friend had an innovative idea. (Score:1)
Re: My friend had an innovative idea. (Score:1)
Funny, all of the stash houses in my city are in the suburbs. If you want quantity at low prices, knowing the right people in the suburbs gets you a much lower price than in the inner city.
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It's always fun to watch (Score:3)
I accuse Telegram... (Score:2)
... of criminal levels of crypto-spam.
If only... (Score:2)
If only there was another platform people could move to...
I di wish there were more than two platforms, but at least Andoud us a bit less if a walled garden.
Build your own platform (Score:3)
If you don't like it, you can build your own platform.
OEM your phone, build your distribution network, support network, and developer organization. It's not hard.
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I would like 700K please (Score:1)
Maybe because it sucks way less (Score:2)
Look at it in the same way that government looks at things: if you want less of something, tax it. Ergo, Apple likely saw way earlier than anyone else that less spam and obnoxious advertising made the user experience better. After all, who doesn't use an ad blocker in their browser these days? Remember the early days of the web when advertisers inundated users with tons of popups and other crap? Who isn't annoyed by certain TV channels that show two minutes of show and 5 minutes of commercials (I'm look