Apple Employees Criticize Work-from-Home Policy in Open Letter (engadget.com) 126
A group of Apple employees have written an open letter to the company's executive team complaining about its new policy that only allows for two days of working from home, iMore has reported. From a report: They said that Apple's reasons for implementing the policy don't stand up, and that the policy is wasteful, inflexible and will lead to a "younger, whiter, more male-dominated, more neuro-normative, more able-bodied" workforce. "You have characterized the decision for the Hybrid Working Pilot as being about combining the "need to commune in-person" and the value of flexible work," the letter states. "But in reality, it does not recognize flexible work and is only driven by fear. Fear of the future of work, fear of worker autonomy, fear of losing control."
Apple is giving some leeway, just some. (Score:2)
They built an alien spaceship office building ffs (Score:2)
Re:Apple is giving some leeway, just some. (Score:5, Insightful)
Employees can always move on to another company if unhappy at Apple.
And that's likely what will happen.
The main problem is that whenever something like this happens, the qualified people bail first because they can demand to work at their terms and conditions.
Eventually what you're left with is the useless middle management who can't bail because, well, who'd need the dregs.
Re: (Score:2)
Middle management stays either way. What you're left with is actually three categories:
1) People with impostor syndrome
2) Diversity hires
3) People who are mainly sticking around because they're comfortable with their current life situation, and aren't as productive as they used to be
Re: (Score:2)
Group 1 will eventually figure out that they are the ones that keep the company running and will bail, too.
And then you're fucked.
Re: (Score:3)
Nah, impostor syndrome doesn't go away that easy.
Re: (Score:2)
Tell me about it, it's a trade disease in security.
But even here you eventually find out that it's just all in your head.
Re: (Score:2)
I don't care what skin color, gender or other traits humans have. I hate all of them equally and would generally prefer not to work alongside any of them.
Re: (Score:2)
Every company is different, but sadly I found that I DO need to turn up to the office periodically. Sure, I get a whole lot less done and it sucks on every level, except there are just those people who are otherwise very good at their specific jobs, but they just can't handle expressing their woes in an email or a phone call. Seriously, one of my most hated things is when people just turn up at my desk to request something, it's a nightmare for productivity and concentration however I've lost count of the n
No reasoning, just a bad argument. (Score:5, Interesting)
"younger, whiter, more male-dominated, more neuro-normative, more able-bodied"
But, nothing in the policy requires employees to be either male, white, neuro-normative, or able bodied. The campus is fully ADA compliant.
Re:No reasoning, just a bad argument. (Score:5, Insightful)
Yeah - they kind of lose me even trying to use that as an argument. They are basically hoping Apple panics at the accusation and gives in
Re: (Score:3)
Yeah - they kind of lose me even trying to use that as an argument. They are basically hoping Apple panics at the accusation and gives in
COVID or no COVID, a non-compete job in a right-to-work environment, means jack shit when it comes to threats from the employer. If you're valued elsewhere, arguments turn into justifications real quick-like. Employers forget that fact as quickly as they forget you once you've decided to leave, so let's not pretend employees should feel any differently.
Bottom line is a business is trying to justify a five-billion dollar campus right now, with ridiculous requests that are not justified other than to fill p
Re: (Score:3)
No doubt they are intelligent. Only if they would channel that intelligence towards excelling in their chosen profession instead of making up shit in order to stay Slacking from home..
I drove an hour to work every day. Add that up, that's an entire workweek wasted every month, sitting in traffic behind a wheel, driving to a job that I've been remotely enabled to do, since RDP was invented. I proposed an alternative to my boss at the time. I work 100% remotely, and give the company back an hour every day, if they gave me the other hour I was previously wasting. They agreed, and I took that hour to exercise each day.
The overall benefit to the company, the environment, my health, and my
Re: (Score:2)
Re: (Score:1)
They swapped around the paragraphs... The fear statement is near the beginning of the letter. The racist one is in the 5th point, but the submitter juxtaposed these, or the editor did, for max click bait and outrage incitement.
Re: (Score:2, Flamebait)
Yeah, that's right. The ADA was passed in 1990 and ever since then, every workforce across America has been just as diverse as it could possibly be.
Re:No reasoning, just a bad argument. (Score:5, Insightful)
That "campus", cost five billion to make, and sits on commercial real estate paying a lot in taxes to write off.
Some reasons, are far more obvious than useless layers of middle-management.
Re: (Score:2)
It's a big number. And yet they could afford to build 40 more of them if they wanted to.
Re: (Score:2)
It's a big number. And yet they could afford to build 40 more of them if they wanted to.
From their cash on hand alone.
Re: (Score:2)
Then sit the C-Levels in it to feel important. I don't need the campus to work.
Re:No reasoning, just a bad argument. (Score:4, Interesting)
"That "campus", cost five billion to make, and sits on commercial real estate paying a lot in taxes to write off."
Why yes, that is an excellent example of the sunk cost fallacy.
Once built, the costs don't really change whether the building is full of people or empty, though you could argue that commercial real estate should be reassessed at a lower value if people aren't coming in to the office.
Re: (Score:1, Troll)
Most if it seems pretty obvious.
Male because women do more childcare stuff on average, being home is better for that.
Neuro normative just means that some people are not very comfortable around people or find it hard to behave the way they expect. WFH suits them, no co-workers wondering by for a chat.
Able bodied is just pointing out that people with physical disabilities often find commuting and working in an office that isn't as well adapted to them as their home more difficult.
Re: No reasoning, just a bad argument. (Score:3)
Ouch, you've just shredded to pieces thousands of manuals of political correctness.
Re:No reasoning, just a bad argument. (Score:5, Insightful)
"younger, whiter, more male-dominated, more neuro-normative, more able-bodied"
I stopped reading there... they said woke shit so I don't give a shit. I probably would've agreed with them if they just left it as a "flexibility is good for workers and we need to attract and retain workers".
Re: (Score:2)
So you're slamming them for not being PC. How woke of you.
Re:No reasoning, just a bad argument. (Score:4, Insightful)
"younger, whiter, more male-dominated, more neuro-normative, more able-bodied"
But, nothing in the policy requires employees to be either male, white, neuro-normative, or able bodied. The campus is fully ADA compliant.
I kinda want my engineering team to be "neuro-normative"; because the alternative is a workforce populated with Brains from the jars marked "Abbie Normal"!
But seriously, if that is some sort of code for "cis" gendered, Heterosexual, persons, I don't think anyone could say with a straight face that Apple, literally from the top-down, is one of the more inclusive, non-judgemental Corporations in the U.S.
So, WTF, over?!?
Re: (Score:3)
"younger, whiter, more male-dominated, more neuro-normative, more able-bodied"
But, nothing in the policy requires employees to be either male, white, neuro-normative, or able bodied. The campus is fully ADA compliant.
Let's think about that for a moment.
Statistically speaking, women are more likely to be responsible for child-rearing activities, including picking the kids up from school, etc. This is not to say that this is always the case, but it is more common. Discouraging working from home makes that considerably harder. Thus, a policy that prevents working from home does, at least to some degree, disproportionately discourage some women from working for Apple.
The race bit seems like a bit of a stretch, though I'l
Re: (Score:2)
Re: (Score:2)
Hits all the high points. (Score:2, Troll)
They are just good libs using the most effective arguments they understand. They have managed to accuse the company of being prejudiced against women, non-whiles, and disabled people in adopting the policy of requiring their employees to visit their office every week. (I'm not sure what "neuro-normative" means, but I suspect it has something to do with gender.) It does not matter if any of these accusations are true; it is only important that the company is accused. If things run according to the curren
Re: (Score:3)
I am an autist. I HATE having to spend time with human beings in the same room. I hate it. It's the single worst stressor in my life. You could pay me 1/4th of what I make now as long as I get it in writing that I do not have to spend a single moment of my working hours in the same room with other people and I will join your company now.
The last 2 years were the BEST in my life. The best. By some margin and then some. Only because I didn't have to spend a single moment of my life with other people in the sa
Re: (Score:2)
Ok, I give up, this is a new one on me...
WTF is "neuro-normative"?
Is this yet another pronoun thing?
Re: (Score:2)
I'm just guessing here, but I'd imagine a "tedious 1 hour journey" for an able-bodied person is "a tricky, exhausting and possibly dangerous journey" for (some) disabled people. Thus, the need to work in the office would discourage disabled people from applying (or staying). How accessible the campus is isn't the majority of the problem.
I'll guess again that around Apple campuses it's generally pretty expensive real-estate. My guess is that most of that real-estate is owned by (in general) richer white peop
Re: (Score:2)
You could make the argument (just barely) that females benefit more than males from remote work, since they are more likely to be involved with childcare.
You could make the argument (reasonably) that if you have a physical disability, you benefit more than the able-bodied from remote work. (Of course if you *do* have a disability, you could simply request working from home as an ADA accommodation-- people make requests like that all the time).
The inclusion of "white" is just, well, nonsense. I suppose you
Re: (Score:2)
Re: (Score:2)
That's not an either or.
Like that is going to work. (Score:2)
The only thing Apple will understand in this case, is a mass exodus of talent to their competitors.
And by that, I mean a REAL MASS EXODUS. As in, like, EVERYONE.
Re: (Score:3)
Lol. Haven't you noticed? All the big corps got together and came up with the same hybrid working plan.
Re: (Score:2)
Lol. Haven't you noticed? All the big corps got together and came up with the same hybrid working plan.
Exactly this. They're all doing the same thing hoping they can slowly boil the frog (us) so we get used to having to trudge into the office every single freaking day even though it's not necessary.
Re: (Score:1)
Re: (Score:2)
Great, so you do my 50% work in office share? I do your 50% work from home share.
Re: (Score:2)
Re: (Score:2)
Larger than my first apartment, I'd take that offer.
We're both gonna live there?
Re: (Score:2)
Not gonna happen.
The best people can always write their own ticket anywhere they want to work: salary, work location, project approvals, etc.
For most of the people, Apple is the best job they will ever have. They can get another job easily enough, but it won't pay as well, won't have the prestige projects, and won't make them feel as special as working for Apple did. This is the peak of their career.
Some people are just lucky to have a job.
Re: (Score:2)
A few posts above I already said I would agree to 25% salary just so I don't have to exist with humans in the same room.
Some things are worth more than money.
So, this is a bad thing? (Score:1, Insightful)
The policy ... and will lead to a "younger, whiter, more male-dominated, more neuro-normative, more able-bodied" workforce.
They say this like it's a bad thing. You can debate the first three, but it's hard to see how mentally and physically healthy are going to negatively impact productivity.
They are full of it anyway, anyone needing handicap accommodations will get them
Re: (Score:2)
Unfortunately, that may be exactly what executives are hoping. Those are illegal discrimination when the company does it directly, but something tech companies have been actively doing since the earliest days.
An opportunity to get all the discrimination factors without it actually being considered illegal may seem like a god-send to some bosses.
Re: (Score:2)
Well, since it wasn't seen to be discriminatory before Covid, when it was the norm for everyone to come into the office...I kinda doubt it could be framed as discriminatory now.
Re: (Score:2)
Well, since it wasn't seen to be discriminatory before Covid, when it was the norm for everyone to come into the office...I kinda doubt it could be framed as discriminatory now.
Exactly what I was thinking.
Covid has especially the software development and customer support workforces kinda spoiled, including me.
I can develop software far more efficiently without the constant background mumur of nearby cubedwellers; especially when a couple of them start discussing something funny or otherwise interesting.
My suggestion: Bring back real offices with real doors (that are really allowed to be closed!), and mental office noise will decrease, and productivity will increase.
And no, you can
Re: (Score:2)
Anyone needing handicap accommodations will get them to the optimum necessary for PR reasons.
Say What? (Score:5, Insightful)
Re: (Score:2, Informative)
its the nice way to talk about autistic people because even saying autistic is a problem now.
Re:Say What? (Score:4, Insightful)
It sure is. They're arguing that a normal, able bodied workforce is bad.
What a time to be alive
Re: (Score:2)
The world won't be just until everyone is not average.
No. The world won't be just until everyone is forced to sink to the least common denominator. I wish I could remember the name and author of the SF short story where exceptionally skilled/talented people were forced to suffer artificial handicaps to promote social equality. Athletes had to wear weights or physical restraints; smart people had to wear headphones that intermittently played sudden, loud noises to disrupt their ability to concentrate. Can't remember what they did to attractive people, but it wa
Re: (Score:2)
Re: (Score:2)
Re: (Score:2)
Harrison Bergeron [wikipedia.org] by Kurt Vonnegut
The only Science Fiction Writer, that was never a Science Fiction Writer!
Spectacular!
Re: (Score:2)
smart people had to wear headphones that intermittently played sudden, loud noises to disrupt their ability to concentrate.
Why all that effort? Just make them work in an open-plan office.
Big Guns! (Score:2)
younger, whiter, more male-dominated, more neuro-normative, more able-bodied
Wow, their pulling out all the stops!
Phy$ical bodies (Score:4, Interesting)
The type of work that is the lion's share at Apple is of the mind, not of the body.
By having people phy$ically show up, there will be prejudices against people whether blatant or not because of phy$ical attributes. It could be something like the choice of color of clothes, or anything else that shouldn't be an indication of how good people can perform their tasks, but they are often used as such.
That's why the phy$ical and mental should be seperated in the workplace, to keep those prejudices in check.
Re: (Score:2)
Re: (Score:2)
Me keeping an office chair from flying off into space is my job now?
What exactly is your benefit from making me drag my corpse in front of your computer instead of mine?
Re: (Score:2)
Me keeping an office chair from flying off into space is my job now?
What exactly is your benefit from making me drag my corpse in front of your computer instead of mine?
Well, in some ways, it is kind of unfair to some persons on a Development Team who cannot really do most of their jobs at home; while others can, and expect to; just because. . .
In Apple's case, a lot of their Projects involve fairly tightly-knit Hardware/Software/Mechanical Packaging Teams.
Software Devs: Who needs an Office? Gimme a couple of giant monitors, fast VPN, a comfy work chair, and I'm good to go! Bonus that I can take a break and smoke a couple of hits of Pot once in awhile!
Hardware Devs: Much m
Re: (Score:2)
Well, in some ways, it is kind of unfair to some persons on a Development Team who cannot really do most of their jobs at home; while others can, and expect to; just because. . .
Then I guess they should have chosen jobs that can be done from home if they want to work from there. Yes, I can, and yes, I expect to.
In Apple's case, a lot of their Projects involve fairly tightly-knit Hardware/Software/Mechanical Packaging Teams.
Guess why I don't want to work in that kind of job.
So, when only 1/3 of the Team gets to work from home 100%; especially if the reasoning is nothing more than "Because we can; sucks to be you!", obviously esprit-de-corps is going to suffer, productivity overall will tank, and mistakes will increase; solely due to internal friction within the Team.
So instead force people to come to office who can't even remotely understand why they should and make the good ones of them quit to move over to companies where they can get what they want? Yeah. That's gonna make productivity soar.
Re: (Score:2)
Well, in some ways, it is kind of unfair to some persons on a Development Team who cannot really do most of their jobs at home; while others can, and expect to; just because. . .
Then I guess they should have chosen jobs that can be done from home if they want to work from there. Yes, I can, and yes, I expect to.
Great!
Well, it looks like you found a solution that works for you.
How inconsiderate of you to the challenges of others. But then, that seems to describe your entire world-view.
In Apple's case, a lot of their Projects involve fairly tightly-knit Hardware/Software/Mechanical Packaging Teams.
Guess why I don't want to work in that kind of job.
So, when only 1/3 of the Team gets to work from home 100%; especially if the reasoning is nothing more than "Because we can; sucks to be you!", obviously esprit-de-corps is going to suffer, productivity overall will tank, and mistakes will increase; solely due to internal friction within the Team.
So instead force people to come to office who can't even remotely understand why they should and make the good ones of them quit to move over to companies where they can get what they want? Yeah. That's gonna make productivity soar.
I can't imagine you have many friends, do you?
Re: (Score:2)
None of my friends are working in fields they didn't choose, if that's what you mean.
Re: (Score:1)
That makes sense for attributes a person cannot easily leave at home. Like skin color. But for instance, the choice of color of clothes is something a person can change. So it is more a matter of wanting to adapt or not.
Now one can make a choice to try and find another job. Personally, I have an aversion against overly formal settings. Something like a dress code might make me very reluctant to join a company. If enough people think like that, perhaps Apple will have problems to attract competent employees.
So they can't compete? (Score:5, Funny)
Re: (Score:2)
Sounds like they are saying they have to work from home and simply can not compete with white males, the physically fit, or normal people (are we still allowed to use that term?).
Well, they used "nero-normative" so I guess we can
Re: (Score:2)
It sounds to me like they're saying they can't compete in the office politics that naturally ensue when you put all the smart monkeys in the same box, for undefined reasons that I'd rather not argue about. But that doesn't mean their contributions are any less otherwise. If some people can make a greater contribution to a business from home, doesn't it make sense to let them stay there?
Re: (Score:2)
You're supposed to say "neurotypical" so they don't know you're talking about them.
I've Had Gastric Bypass Surgery (Score:5, Funny)
It's helped me to lose a lot of weight, and has greatly improved my overall health!
But it also means I fart like a cow in heat.
And due to some slight complications during recovery, I developed an anal fissure, and needed a sphincterotomy. Consequently, my farts no longer sound normal. Instead of the blase midline treble and pitiful bass, my backside now produces the black-tarred glutterings of an angry Servitor of the Outer Gods.
And I intend to share my Chthonian Paeans of Darkness and Despair with everyone in the office.
And if management complains, then I'll point out that because of the surgery that saved my life, I no longer have control over such things.
lmao (Score:2, Troll)
will lead to a "younger, whiter, more male-dominated, more neuro-normative, more able-bodied" workforce.
Oh no. Normal White people might benefit from something. The horror.
Re: (Score:2)
My dream of working in a place with "older, blacker, female-dominated, more neuro-abnormal, more disabled" workforce just became a tiny bit less likely all of a sudden. Oh no.
"Apple Together"?? (Score:3)
The name of the organization in-and-of-itself is a bit of a misnomer, as they apparently don't actually want to work together. The irony is positively palpable.
Find a better job (Score:4, Funny)
At least for the competent, the IT job market is pretty good right now. Even better if you have some IT security skills.
Re: (Score:2)
I'm skeptical of WFH, I happen to think companies overly reliant on it will not maintain cohesion and suffer higher turnover, as with outsourcing.
But you know what? I could be wrong. If you don't like the terms you signed up for with Apple, and think you can continue to make silicon valley wages without having to get out of bed, knock yourself out, more power to you.
I fully expected workers to suffer massive layoffs in the next economic downturn (again - as yet unproven), and subje
Re: (Score:2)
There are lots of OTHER jobs available.
For most people BETTER jobs are not available... Apple is near the top of what they can get.
Re: (Score:2)
Define better.
A job where I can stay at home, not have to deal with humans physically and can actually concentrate while working because I don't have to listen to one side of the conversation of a loudmouth? Yeah, that's a better job.
Re: (Score:2)
Pretty much this.
I am a security expert with over 15 years of experience. I have a background in law, and I have a background in financial auditing. And I am fairly affordable, I don't give a shit about money.
You'll find that this makes for a very good bargaining position.
Re: (Score:2)
Indeed. Anybody that made sure they have good skills and extended those skills and branched out a little can still chose their jobs and that will not change anytime soon.
I am currently going a bit into financial auditing via data-analysis. Not because I need to, but because it is something I have not done before and it sounds interesting.
Lost all sympathy (Score:2, Interesting)
I was with up up until:
will lead to a "younger, whiter, more male-dominated, more neuro-normative, more able-bodied" workforce
First off, who is the stereotypical gamer dude that just wants to sit around the house?
That's right, white male.
Furthermore, in terms of commuting non-able-bodied (AKA handicapped) people have all kinds of perks, like much more comfortable spots on transit or premium parking spaces at work that are better than executive spots.
As for neuro-normative, well that's just right out the win
Re: (Score:2)
Yep, sorry (Score:1)
I guess I'm a woman then, because I like the social aspects of in-person work?
Correct, just be grateful you found out now later in life, if you were still in gradeschool you would be made to surgically transition.
Re: (Score:2)
Women can get pregnant, it's commonly accepted infants need to be breastfed for at least half a year for optimal health and psychological outcomes and partially as a result of those things they also usually end up the main caretaker.
It's kind of a big distinguishing factor, icky biological determinism.
Re: (Score:2)
First off, who is the stereotypical gamer dude that just wants to sit around the house?
That would be me. But in all fairness, it's less gamer, it's more due to me not liking humans. They are at best a nuisance and at worst a pest. I can concentrate far better if there are none of these creatures around who expect me to pretend I'm one of them.
I suddenly think I know how Jane Goodall felt...
Furthermore, in terms of commuting non-able-bodied (AKA handicapped) people have all kinds of perks, like much more comfortable spots on transit or premium parking spaces at work that are better than executive spots.
That is really swell... as long as you actually have a physical handicap that can be seen. Try the same with, let's say, a condition where the physical presence of human beings causes you to get stressed ou
An unsigned open letter (Score:2)
No signatures? So what, is this like one person saying "I speak for everyone?"
Has this person heard the good news about the HR department, which is the standard way of effecting internal change?
Trollish Bull (Score:1)
Genius! If we lock ourselves away, nobody will know we are a minority. All discrimination issues magically solved!
The whole thing is one big lazy trollish clickbait.
Walk, don't talk (Score:3)
People who want to WFH should take jobs that permit that. Yes, a lot of large tech companies are being assholes about this, but there are a ton of fully-remote tech jobs available. My last two jobs have been fully-remote and I'd retire before taking a tech job that required going to the office.
My last office job was a short commute by North American standards, but still chewed up an hour a day. Having that hour back made a significant improvement to my quality of life.
Talk with your feet, Apple employees. Not just your words.
Re: (Score:2)
But vesting on stock options... Yeah, they'll just write a letter and hope.
I'm going to repeat myself. (Score:2)
If they were allowed to work from home they wouldn't do a damn thing and they project their own shitty behavior onto their employees.
They fear a work environment where reward is based on merit rather than ass kissing.
I believe that the pandemic has forced these facts into the light in a major way and the great resignation is tangible proof.
Yawn (Score:2)
I stopped reading once the woke card was played. How is working in an office or not colour or race related ?
And a note to whoever wrote the letter: Apple customers don't give a shit whether Apple has a work from home policy or not. They don't. Not one iota. Nope.
Re: (Score:2)
Horseshit. If you are a dev, sre or a mixture there of ... YOU have a real job and sitting at a tiny desk in an open area environment ONLY makes you wear headphones and give folks an in to come walking by to steal time from you that you didn't intend to spend.
So yeah, GTFO with that talk. Jealousy is a hellva drug.
Re: (Score:1)
What exactly is "more neuro-normative"?
Re: (Score:2)
I imagine a combination of issues working on-location for autistic or ADHD employees. The level of distraction and noise that has to be dealt with takes away a lot of productivity potential.
Re: (Score:1)
Re: (Score:2)
Give me one good reason to come to an office and we'll talk.
Otherwise, save your breath and my time.
wouldn't go unused though (Score:2)
Even if Apple offered 100% work at home any time you wanted, lots of people would still come in and use the office from time to time... just on a schedule that worked for them, or an occasional all-hands.
Also there are plenty of people working in the secret Apple labs that have to come in all the time anyway, so the building would get used...
If I worked for Apple, I would go into that campus at least a few times a month just to take advantage of the facility.
Re: (Score:2)
Nope.
I'm in the happy situation that I have a skill set SO rare and SO in demand that I set the rules. Play by them or I'll work for the competition on the other side of the road.
Or the other side of the continent, it's not like it matters.
Re: (Score:2)
The main problem is that when employees are unhappy, you don't lose the 3/4 that you could do without. You lose that 1/4 that is actually innovative and pushing, because they can very, very easily find another job.
What you're left with in such a scenario is the middle-management bozos that have to cling to their job no matter how crappy it gets because they know that they won't find another one.