Apple Store Workers Are Preparing To Unionize (9to5mac.com) 79
According to a report from the Washington Post, Apple Store employees at several retail stores in the US are said are said to be planning to unionize. 9to5Mac reports: Groups at two stores are reportedly preparing paperwork to file with the National Labor Relations Board, with about six more locations at earlier stages of planning. The Post says the main source of unrest is due to wages. Apple pays retail employees in the range of $17-$30 per hour, depending on role and seniority. However, the workers say these rates have not kept up with inflation.
Inspired by recent successful union votes at more than 90 Starbucks stores, the report says that efforts to unionize have recently accelerated. Operations are largely happening in secret in case of retaliation from management. However, the Post says that at one store managers have already began discussing how unions will hurt employee working conditions: "Apple Store employees at one store said managers have already begun pulling employees aside and giving speeches about how unions will hurt employees, lower their wages and force Apple to take away benefits and opportunities, such as the 'career experience' that Herbst described. Managers try to eavesdrop on employees, they said, while pretending to do something else."
Inspired by recent successful union votes at more than 90 Starbucks stores, the report says that efforts to unionize have recently accelerated. Operations are largely happening in secret in case of retaliation from management. However, the Post says that at one store managers have already began discussing how unions will hurt employee working conditions: "Apple Store employees at one store said managers have already begun pulling employees aside and giving speeches about how unions will hurt employees, lower their wages and force Apple to take away benefits and opportunities, such as the 'career experience' that Herbst described. Managers try to eavesdrop on employees, they said, while pretending to do something else."
Unionized... re:Lol (Score:3, Funny)
What, were they ionized before this?
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For what little it's worth, I like the way you did that. Even deserves more Funny.
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They are out of touch with the rest of the work force. No job has kept up with inflation. They should really chat with other low paid people who are forced into unions. Like Safeway and other grocers. It's not the employees who benefit all that much if at all. The people running the union however will get rich off of the union fees er "dues" you are forced to pay that would actually make a difference in you eating or paying rent.
Re:Lol (Score:5, Insightful)
Re:Lol (Score:5, Insightful)
As an Australian I find the USA version of unions quite odd.
Here, if you want to join a union, you sign up - and you've joined a union - it's that easy. Takes a minute or three online, last I checked. Not everyone at a location needs to be a union member, why would they? Unions are national, they don't care if only 14% of a store are union members.
If you want the employer to take union dues out of your pay, ask them to, they probably will. Otherwise, just set up a regular payment from your bank account to the union, again, this takes seconds using an banking app or website.
Australia has laws about unlawful termination of employment - there has to be a good reason to fire someone, and being a union member is not a good reason.
I don't understand your second last sentence about "government forcing one company to pay higher wages over the other" though, where is a government involved?
That said, from my experience of unions here, 8 hour days, 5 day work weeks (until the recent casualisation of the workforce and extension to 7 day trading for many retailers), 10 days annual paid sick leave - that accrues if you don't use it all, 20 days paid leave - that accrues, 3 months paid long service leave after 7 or 10 years (depending on employer) - that accrues and many more benefits.
It's all good from what I've experienced - obviously USA mileage may differ, for reasons I'm unaware of.
Re:Lol (Score:5, Informative)
As an Australian I find the USA version of unions quite odd.
Compared to the American version (in some mostly blue states) it sounds like it!
Here, if you want to join a union, you sign up - and you've joined a union - it's that easy. Takes a minute or three online, last I checked. Not everyone at a location needs to be a union member, why would they? Unions are national, they don't care if only 14% of a store are union members.
In the US, we have right-to-work states, and union states. In a union state, if the workers at a location (like a vehicle assembly plant) vote to unionize by majority, then all the employees are involuntarily forced to join the union. There is effectively a security agreement between the union and the employer, whereby the employer is prohibited from employing non-union members at that location. In a right-to-work state, such arrangements are illegal, and employees are not forced to join the union, but do so voluntarily. I believe the union can not be voted out either, but in some states that may be the case, I'm not sure.
If you want the employer to take union dues out of your pay, ask them to, they probably will. Otherwise, just set up a regular payment from your bank account to the union, again, this takes seconds using an banking app or website.
In union states (there are 23 as well as some US territories), your union dues are deducted from your paycheck automatically, like taxes. You do not have the option of paying it after the fact, and the union membership at unionized locations is mandatory. So, if you want to work at that auto plant in that state, your paycheck is deducted for taxes and union dues. I think this is wrong.
Australia has laws about unlawful termination of employment - there has to be a good reason to fire someone, and being a union member is not a good reason.
I agree with you. But, if the union demands an exceedingly high pay rate, that should be grounds for dismissal, especially in union states where you can not remove a union for a location.
I don't understand your second last sentence about "government forcing one company to pay higher wages over the other" though, where is a government involved?
Because it is illegal in union states to employ someone outside the union, and it is illegal to remove the union, a unionized workplace will have higher wages than a non-unionized workplace. Because of those laws protecting the unions, the employer is stuck with a facility that is inherently more expensive to operate than their competitors who perhaps are not unionized (like Tesla vs Ford). Ford opened their plants a long time ago, so they are unionized. Tesla is new, and has so far been able to avert unionization. Therefore Ford operates a more expensive plant compared to Tesla, all else held equal.
That said, from my experience of unions here, 8 hour days, 5 day work weeks (until the recent casualisation of the workforce and extension to 7 day trading for many retailers), 10 days annual paid sick leave - that accrues if you don't use it all, 20 days paid leave - that accrues, 3 months paid long service leave after 7 or 10 years (depending on employer) - that accrues and many more benefits.
Yeah, sounds great. Here, unions negotiate various benefits for their employees, but a lot of the time, these benefits are already a part of the common compensation employees receive. Also, negotiating on your own, you can get even better wages. The union usurps your bargaining power. This may be good for some who are bad at negotiation or possess very little tradecraft and skill to command high compensation and benefits, but worse for others who are probably more capable of assertive negotiation. There are arguments it also reduces productivity because if you are in a union, the union is who will fire you, and not the employer (baring egregious behavior
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I worked doing flooring for a year and a half. I can vouch for the reduced productivity of union crews. We had one job we had to hire a union crew alo
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No, the argument is that Unions encourage lazy workers. If you think that's a good thing, then you're part of the problem.
Re: Lol (Score:2)
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There is so much wrong with this. I'll pick this one because it's laughably false:
Also, negotiating on your own, you can get even better wages.
No, you won't. A single employee has no power. Employees are very often abused and underpaid and have no hope of improving their lot. The only thing they can do is threaten to quit, which is no threat at all.
That's why collective bargaining is so important. When employees act together, they can demand better wages, better working conditions, better benefits, more time off, etc. That's the power of the union.
If anyone tel
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That's only true if the employee has no particular skills. As long as you're an interchangeable cog you can be replaced with another interchangeable cog.
Unions don't exist to protect you from your employer. They exist to protect you from your fellow workers.
I make far more than the vast majority of Union workers, and I've never been part of a Union. I make more money (and have better working conditions) because I offer skills and experience that my employe
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That's only true if the employee has no particular skills.
That's where you're wrong. Everyone is replaceable. Your organization was fine before you showed up. It'll be fine afterward.
Employers know this, and they will use it to screw you over. Just wait until you find someone working under you that makes significantly more than you do. It's more common than you think. It's why most employers forbid you from discussing compensation with your coworkers.
Notice that as soon as it became difficult/impossible to find workers for minimum wage, businesses started raising wages to attract workers. That didn't require unions, and it didn't require laws. The market sets a fair price.
Don't make me laugh! Wages haven't kept pace with inflation for 40 years. The only reason wages are going u
Re: Lol (Score:2)
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Thanks for the illumination!
Seems different countries do some things very differently indeed.
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Not everyone at a location needs to be a union member, why would they?
Let's be honest though - if you want to work on a large Construction Site in Australia you had better be a member of the CMFEU or bad things will happen to your tools, car and face.
Re: Lol (Score:2)
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This is nothing but bullshit anit-union propaganda.
It's not the 1980's any more. The people are waking up to your lies and demanding their fair share. It's about damn time.
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Workers have been getting screwed for a very long time. Wages haven't kept pace with inflation reducing their buying power, while worker productivity has continued to increase and profits are at an all-time high. Wealth disparity has continued to increase at an alarming rate.
Yeah, I want workers to finally get a fair shake.
But keep licking those boots. See how far that gets you. The rest of us are going to fight for what's right.
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Wages haven't kept pace with inflation for 40 years. People are tired of working 60-hour weeks for poverty wages that buy less and less every year.
People are finally starting to wake up and recognize that anti-union propaganda for what it is. They've also figured out that the wealth does not, in fact, "trickle down".
When people earning twice the minimum wage notice that they have less buying power than they did working for minimum wage 35 years ago, they start thinking about guillotines. We're going to s
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but how many hours week to week? (Score:2)
but how many hours week to week?
Re: Those are pretty decent wages for retail (Score:2)
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I do not recall stories of Apple staff having to pee in Gatorade bottles to make quotas.
No, but they were forcing them into unpaid overtime by making them wait 15 minutes after their shift ended just to get searched before being permitted to leave.
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Working for free and treated like a criminal. That kind of crap doesn't fly when you have the power a union provides.
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If you are really worth more than the company was paying you, then they (or some other company) will certainly pay you more.
Don't be a fool. Wages haven't kept pace with inflation for 40 years. If you think you're being fairly compensated, odds are good that you're wrong. Wait until you find someone under you with a higher salary.
They guy who delivered my pizza yesterday told me that he got a $5/hour raise. This is not skilled work. He's an easily replaceable cog who was once told that he was lucky to have a job at all. The only reason his wages nearly doubled was because of the so-called "big quit" where workers, acting i
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I don't understand, this is not a forced labor situation, if you are unhappy change jobs... its not like its requiring any special skills to stand in a mostly empty store all day hoping to upsell someone on some air pods, thats pretty much every retail store post I dunno 2005
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I don't understand
Your masters are very happy about that.
I'll explain. Mandatory unpaid overtime is "working for free". Being physically searched before you're allowed to leave you job is "being treated like a criminal". It's degrading and humiliating. No one, not even Apple employees, should be treated like that.
The people's eyes are open. They've realized that they don't need to debase themselves just to earn enough to not starve. They're learning the power of collective action. It won't be long before we see the ri
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A) the practice is long gone at apple stores
B) get a new job if it degrades you that much, no one is being forced to work at a place they hate
its that fuckin simple
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Does that boot taste good? I've never seen someone lick one so vigorously! Or maybe you're just delusional?
"Get a new job". That isn't as easy as you make it sound. Changing jobs can be a difficult and expensive prospect for a lot of people, especially when their healthcare is tied to their employer. Some poor sod going from one minimum wage job to another is just changing abusers, not improving their life an any way.
This is by design, of course. Ask the guy standing on your neck.
Though getting anew
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I am not delusional, I leveraged my talent into a decent career without social movement, unions, nor student debit. I feel no pity for people who decide to keep making lateral job moves without leveraging their experience and knowledge to make gradual improvements.
Everyone has to start somewhere, and it takes time to move up from the bottom, but paying dues to rich people is just another tax.
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You should let people know that you're a psychopath in your sig. It'll save the rest of us a lot of trouble.
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I am not spamming the place with boot on your neck bullshit, you like unions, super ... its worked out so well in the past, look at the auto industry... oh wait they all moved
How bout hostess, those dumb fucks went on strike so hard the company folded, brilliant
Go pay your dues to rich people, they will totally protect you and your 17$ an hour flunkie job
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Keyword "were". Apple lost the lawsuit and is forced to pay for that time as well. They were also forced to pay everyone for that time. It was a rather large settlement
Still, it is rather high for retail - most retail jobs pay minimum wage only. The Genius pays even more - $17/hr is for floor staff, the Geniuses I've heard were paid nearly $30/hr. Yo
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I was in my hometown - a small rural place in outstate that's pretty cheap, and even there, Walmart was over $14/hr and a local store was advertising for $15/hr just for a clerk.
Your area may be
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The wildcard is going to be the ability of firms to misclassify workers as contract and therefore beyond the protection of federal law. This will be the favorite countermeasure of business. As mentioned, firms like Apple Pay market wages and are not overtly abusive. The effectiveness of the union then will depend o
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Mod me down all you want. You can't stop the truth from being told. The people are awake! They know that it isn't the immigrant that has their boot on their neck, it's their employer!
You better pray for strong unions. The alternative is guillotines.
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I'm not really sure what they think they'll gain by unionizing.
Better wages, better working conditions, better benefits, more (or any) paid sick leave and vacation time, better job security, the list goes on and on.
When workers act collectively, they have an incredible amount of power. That anti-union crap worked for a while, but people have finally started to wake up.
$17/hr (Score:1, Funny)
to tell people:
"Did you try turning it off and back on again?"
"Oh you did? Well, since that didn't fix it, the new model is right over here. What color would you like?"
Sign me up.
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Entry-level salaries are determined by the value of the work performed, not by the success of the company. How would you feel about a store that set their prices based on how much you earned? If you're a successful high earner, surely you can afford a few bucks more for that frozen pizza than the single mom who is paying with EBT. Chances are, you'd probably think such store is using unfair pricing practices, and that a frozen pizza should be the same price for all customers, regardless of their income.
W
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How would you feel about a store that set their prices based on how much you earned?
Just fine, as I'm not required to shop there. They are free to charge as little or as much as they please.
Why should labor rates be any different than the laws of supply and demand that govern the price of a frozen pizza?
Maybe labor rates are more complex than simple supply and demand? What's more capitalist than bargaining over wages?
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Just fine, as I'm not required to shop there. They are free to charge as little or as much as they please.
The other stores in your area anticipated that you might decide to take your business elsewhere and all agree to implement similar pricing policies. Only problem is, when businesses do that it's called price fixing and is considered an anti-competitive practice. But when employees get together and attempt to price-fix the cost of labor beyond its fair market value, that's called a union.
Don't get me wrong, I'm fine with people wanting some form of wage protectionism when it comes to skilled labor. Compan
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More anti-union propaganda.
I hope they're paying you well. You're stepping on your own neck.
Lots of different types of people work (Score:2, Insightful)
Every worker deserves enough money to pay for shelter, food and retirement.
And what of the potential workers who are willing to work for less? People work for lots of reasons, so why should other people's desires dictate what their wage will be?
Many already-retired people work part-time because they enjoy the socialization. Teenager workers usually don't need to pay for housing. Apple fanboys are probably willing to work for less at an Apple Store compared to working at a Best Buy.
For the same outlay, Apple can pay:
- 15 fanboys $20/hr, or
- 10 unionized workers $30/hr
As a customer,
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Don't be stupid. Apple can pay 20 guys $50 hour and not notice the difference.
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Apple can pay a lot more than that.
This is why having a high minimum wage is important. Some people might be willing to work for less, their personal situation allows them to survive on less money. Problem is it screws the people who need the money to live. Minimum wage is there to prevent a race to the bottom.
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This is why having a high minimum wage is important.
Absent price controls on cost of living expenses, minimum wage will always be minimum wage. Remember that "fight for $15" from a few years ago? Yeah, inflation caught up with it and earning minimum wage still feels like earning minimum wage - you just get to see a bigger number on your paycheck (and a proportionally bigger one on your grocery bills).
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People work for lots of reasons, so why should other people's desires dictate what their wage will be?
The law cannot permit people to work for less than a living wage because such a law will permit employers to pay less than a living wage.
We could fix this. With a UBI tied to the cost of living, there is no need to enforce a minimum wage. You also don't need social security, food stamps, AFDC, disability insurance, or frankly most of our other social programs. Although to be fair in order for it to really work we also need a national health system, which the ACA is not. I am required to buy health insurance
Re: $17/hr (Score:2)
Many argue that companies should reduce profits. That would be challenging for two reasons. First, a reduction in the P/E ratio of the stocks would likely result in a serious adjustment in share prices. I can barely imagine the impact that would have on pension funds--
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Every worker deserves enough money to pay for shelter, food and retirement
No, no they don't, no one is forcing these people to work for apple in their retail stores, while earning almost 2x retail labor wages, not to mention that in MOST of the USA cost of living isnt insane.
For instance my property could easily be paid for by a single income wage of 17$ an hour as my mortgage, insurance and taxes is just under 1000$ a month, leaving 2/3rds income for everything else.
Geniuses for being paid to stand around (Score:2, Insightful)
Every time I go to the Apple Store, half the employees are standing around chatting with each other. There’s easily 20 to 30 “geniuses” in there, half of them ignoring customers.
From what I can tell they are already unionized if they are getting paid to stand around and do nothing.
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Getting paid to do nothing is a genius move, if you ask me.
Based on the times I've been to an Apple Store, I suspect Apple's retail training is just really big on specialization. It's actually kind of annoying when you're attempting to just buy something quickly that's locked up somewhere and all the worker bees who are approved to go in the back and get things are occupied. So of course, if you happen to be standing next to a product with unoccupied specialists, various ones will keep approaching you to
They should call their union.... (Score:1)
The Tech Orchard, because that's where apples usually are. ;-)
You're owned! (Score:2)
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A little help (Score:1)
Thanks for your updates! (Score:1)
I can't help you. I'm on break. (Score:2)
That's going to go over well with the customers. People really need to understand what they think they will be getting and what they are actually going to get by joining a union.
Prepare ... (Score:2)
... for the success of the UAW! Your future looks like Detroit!
Hey ... where did everybody go?
Retail is a hard nut to crack (Score:2)
It's hard to get retail employees to unionize, and even harder to get management to accept it. Yes we know there are laws that are supposed to require the latter but we know that there are ways around it.
But even getting employees to unionize in retail is a big challenge. Seniority-based pay - as mentioned
Robots - the only remedy (Score:2)
Workers will always either actually be or feel abused and enslaved no matter the conditions. Some humans abuse workers, no matter what -- accidentally or deliberately. That's what they do. Some workers will feel abused, no matter what --really or perceptually.
That only solution is automate everything, using robots that are taxed such that a portion of their "salary" or "paycheck" that comes from their productivity is channeled to humans as universal basic income that can be used to buy groceries and pay for