EU Plans To Legislate for Common Phone Charger Despite Apple Grumbles (reuters.com) 179
The European Commission will on Thursday present a legislative proposal for a common charger for mobile phones, tablets and headphones, a move likely to affect iPhone maker Apple more than its rivals, Reuters reported on Tuesday, citing a person familiar with the matter. From the report: The European Union executive and EU lawmakers have been pushing for a common charger for over a decade, saying it would be better for the environment and more convenient for users. The Commission wants the sale of chargers to be decoupled from devices, and also propose a harmonised charging port, the person said. Apple, whose iPhones are charged from its Lightning cable, has said rules forcing connectors to conform to one type could deter innovation, create a mountain of electronic waste and irk consumers.
USB-C is common enough. (Score:2)
Re:USB-C is common enough. (Score:5, Interesting)
USB-C, if properly constructed, should have a better cycle count than a standard barrel connector.
Also, lightning has an exceptionally high cycle count. The metal is titanium, the insulator is teflon, and the contacts are gold. Completely buries barrels, and can be more durable than USB-C. (while being thinner)
What would be really neat is if Apple were to say something like "tell you what - how about we just allow free license forever to use lightning, and everyone goes with that?"
USB-C is nice though - it's higher power than lightning, and is bi-directional. I'd settle for that personally. But if you want thin, lightning is THE way to go. USB-C jacks just can't be made as thin.
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USB-C is nice, until it gets completely jammed up with pocket lint, wood chips (if you're the type who uses a chainsaw on occasion), and other miscellaneous crap.
Then you have to go find or cut a really thin plastic chunk to clean out all the garbage, or the connectors won't mate worth a damn, and if they do happen to make contact there's no retention force so they fall apart.
So basically, USB-C when it's clean is nice. USB-C in everyday use being carried around in my pocket is really damned annoying. The
Re: USB-C is common enough. (Score:4, Insightful)
Port cover.
Re: USB-C is common enough. (Score:3)
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USB-C is nice, until it gets completely jammed up with pocket lint, wood chips (if you're the type who uses a chainsaw on occasion), and other miscellaneous crap.
FWIW, I'd rather have to go through that ordeal with a cable (which, if I don't want to dig around inside the port to clean it. I can buy a new one for a couple of bucks) than deal with the inverse situation with a lightning port where the device is what ends up full of pocket lint, wood chips, and other miscellaneous crap.
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I’ve just bought 10 mag jack adapters to help solve this.
Now our mixed apple, android household can use the same charger cables and we don’t have the lint problem. Only been using them a month but been reliable so far.
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link?
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Ports need covers. I like to cover them when not in used.
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USB-C is nice, until it gets completely jammed up with pocket lint, wood chips (if you're the type who uses a chainsaw on occasion), and other miscellaneous crap.
And barrel connectors stay forever clean, yeah? Just get a can of compressed air and blow away the dirt. If this doesn't help, try squiring isopropyl alcohol using a syringe.
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The smart plan on Apple's part is to build a USB-C to Lightning dongle adapter (as flimsy as possible) and include it with every iPhone, iPad, etc
I may be mistaken, but I'm pretty sure that's what Apple does now to get around the EUs current standardization law, and this new proposal is basically saying that's not good enough.
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They don't include a USB-C to lightning dongle with iPhones.
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They don't include a USB-C to lightning dongle with iPhones.
That's exactly what my iPhone had in its box. Well, not a "dongle" but a cable. Plugs into any USB-C charger.
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And when that titanium tongue levers off of the PCB that provides data and power to it, right through the soft insulator and thin plastic shell surrounding the rest of the connector, I always marvel at how exceptionally durable that now-separated and non-functional portion of the overall connector
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USB-C is nice though - it's higher power than lightning, and is bi-directional. I'd settle for that personally. But if you want thin, lightning is THE way to go. USB-C jacks just can't be made as thin.
Lightning is just the cable. I'm using lightning with a USB-C charger. You can charger a newer iPhone with USB-C and a USB-C-to-Lightning cable, and it charges a lot quicker than with a USB-A charger and USB-A to lightning cable (power coming from the same Anker 5 port charger).
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For the record, you're talking about PD (Power Delivery) charging. https://www.zdnet.com/article/... [zdnet.com]
I too have several PD chargers, and they all do a very nice job charging iGadgets via Lightning cables on the rare occasion I have to charge a friend's phone.
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Really? The connector with lots of tiny spring contacts should last longer?
For a cellphone, I guess it's OK, especially compared to the tiny barrel connectors. I would probably prefer mini or micro USB though.
But for bigger devices, a bigger connector, like a 2.1/5.5 barrel plug can be used. Even bigger devices should have internal power supplies and connect directly to mains.
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Ran across this a while back:
A case for Micro USB Type C connector [wordpress.com]
This is intended to be a smaller than USB-C connector, (though with less functionality). I somewhat agree with the author, USB-C threw in the kitchen sink, as well as a fridge and fireplace. Something that was purposefully designed as smaller & simpler may make sense for cheaper, smaller or devices that just don't need all the overhead USB-C adds.
For those that think USB-C is perfect, wai
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Apple lightning connectors are well made, but many people use cheaper third party ones. there is no reason why USB C connectors can't use the same materials either.
USB C is actually a more robust design. The metal shell makes contact first and guides the more delicate contracts. The shell aligns everything as it is inserted. Lightning connectors put all the stress on the contacts and a thin bit of plastic.
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I think you need to take another look at Lightning. The contacts are definitely not the first thing to hit the port, the entire end tip is metal. The retention is entirely on the metal (titanium) tang that sticks out, as well as the side edges. There's very little force on the gold contacts. (and that white stuff around the contacts isn't plastic, it's teflon)
And if you look at the sides of the tang, you'll see little indents. Those are for the detents inside the jack, to hold onto the cable after it's
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Lightning used to be the way to go but with phone getting larger batteries and more powerful processors I suspect Lightning will meet it's end soon. Data limits are a problem too.
As far as I know Apple isn't saying how much power the Lightning connector can handle safely but it's got to have a limit in the 20 watt range. That was fine then but now that's not enough. Apple is switching their iPads to USB-C because of the power problem. If they intend to keep improving the processing power of their iPhone
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In the case of phones and tablets the charging cable usually also doubles as a cable for data transmission, which is not the case for a laptop. So I think they can keep their usual pin-and-barrel connectors for the power supply.
Though as far as Apple is concerned, they could try and make their Lightning connector a standard for all devices as well, or couldn't they? But for that they'd probably have to make it an o
Re:USB-C is common enough. (Score:5, Interesting)
The Lightning connector is terrible for charging. Someone who understands this better can explain why, but basically, when you plug in a Lightning cable to charge, most of the time, it will spark, corroding the charging pins over time [ioshacker.com]. This has something to do with the Lightning connector not being designed to ground before the pins connect, meaning that the power pins spark.
In any case, as pretty much anyone who has used Apple products for a while, you will go through Lightning cables over time, as they slowly destroy themselves. (The plastic and insulation Apple uses is also incredibly cheap, it's common for the plug to crack and for the insulation to shred. But that's a problem with Apple's cables, not the plug itself.)
Re:USB-C is common enough. (Score:5, Insightful)
That's not a good design for power delivery.
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But it's good for the profits.
Re:USB-C is common enough. (Score:5, Funny)
What did you expect from a Lightning connector?
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In the case of phones and tablets the charging cable usually also doubles as a cable for data transmission, which is not the case for a laptop.
My laptop sits on my desk with just one cable connecting it to a dock: A USB cable with USB-C connector that is used for power delivery as well as transmitting network, audio, video, keyboard and mouse.
Now, there are laptops out there that are stuck somewhere in-between: They might use USB-C only for data transmission but not for charging, or they might use one USB-C port for charging and another for data transmission. But this is just transitional.
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On Apple Laptops, and iPads other than the base iPad nothing, USB-C does serve as a data port as well as a charger port.
I can connect my laptops (both HP and Apple) to a Thunderbolt dock, and with one cable, I get everything I need.
Re:USB-C is common enough. (Score:5, Insightful)
Yes, require it for laptops, too, but allow them to also charge off of other connectors. That's how my Dell Latitude works. It needs the barrel plug if you're using a dock that doesn't provide enough power.
As to phones, yes, USB-C is the way. Apple already switched some of their high-end iPads. Do allow for wireless charging, possibly as an only option. Sure, they can allow devices with other ports that might also work to charge (like with laptops), but USB-C has won.
Of course, the standard should be up for review every two years to evaluate new technologies.
But also require all other consumer electronics to switch over. There are tons of devices like bicycle lights that charge off micro-USB, and occasionally mini-USB. Set a deadline for them to switch to USB-C or not be sold in the EU. And encourage other devices that use wall warts for DC power to switch to USB-C. Everything from WiFi routers to electric shavers could switch over.
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They have now switched USB-C for all their iPads except the budget one. I don't the new iPad Mini is shipping yet, but it will very soon, and it has USB-C. The iPad Air switched last year.
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My laptop needs a 280W adapter to charge and run at the same time. I think it goes up to 100W PD and with 65W PD USB-C it drains the battery instead of running, so I have to go to sleep if I don't want to wear out my battery with weird charge/drain cycles. The 240W PD wasn't invented when my laptop was made, so maybe next year's model won't have this annoying problem.
I think it's quite acceptable to limit legislation to phones and maybe tablets where even a few watts is enough to provide reasonable performa
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I suppose you could make the argument that even for your 280w laptop, the ability to charge it with USB, even if slow, and even if you can't run on it indefinitely, could save your ass on the odd occasion.
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It's better than nothing, but also I wish I would have read the fine print more carefully before buying. Other than that weird quirk it's a great laptop.
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My new custom built desktop PC didn't come with USB-C ports. It does have the original USB ports up to v3.
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It's not that rare. My new car, and cars from other brands too, have USB-C.
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The key word you used was "new". Yes, it's becoming more common, but it's a pain in the ass if you get a new product that now requires it and all you have is 50 USB-micro, 20 lightning cables, etc. I have a new car from last year, but no USB-C, because the USB-A connector is still incredibly common and adapter for it are also common. If I used USB-C in my car I'd use it with an adapter.
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The key word you used was "new". Yes, it's becoming more common, but it's a pain in the ass if you get a new product that now requires it and all you have is 50 USB-micro, 20 lightning cables, etc. I have a new car from last year, but no USB-C, because the USB-A connector is still incredibly common and adapter for it are also common. If I used USB-C in my car I'd use it with an adapter.
I really don't understand what all the hullabaloo is about. For one thing USB-C is becoming a de-fact standard, like it or not. Secondly, wireless charging is probably going to render corded chargers redundant at worst or make them an optional extra at best so if the EU wants to standardise chargers, standardise wireless charging devices to the point where they are completely fungible (if that isn't happening all by it self anyway). The way you describe this it sounds like USB-C is some insurmountable obst
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USB-C is not new or rare. Here it has almost completely taken over: all family phones, tablets, my new laptop (Ryzen!). USB-C is taking over fast because it's just a lot better by all measures. Very nice that you can use the same chargers.
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anecdotal evidence...
here is a household with roughly 90 devices carrying usb connectors (consumers, female: not counting chargers/power supplies /power banks etc) and that's like 86 usb micro and 4 mini (the 3d-printer, a head set, a bluetooth speaker, a camping light still have a usb-mini plug only)
Unfortunately, usb-c has not a single client here.
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You must have been out of the market for some time.
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Any device you have with microusb was designed at least 5 years ago. Sure, some are still on the market because the manufacturer hasn't bothered to update their design, but the number is dwindling, and there is nothing new coming on the market with micro usb.
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My phone was designed last year and has a micro usb. At that I have nothing in the house that uses USB C besides a card in my computer, and that has a USB-b micro plugged into it for the USB 3 HD.
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Getting hard to find a micro-usb phone from midrange up, lots of holdouts on the low end. So you got a bargain I presume.
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I tried to find even a low end micro-usb phone on amazon and failed. You're definitely an outlier. Micro usb is most definitely knocked out and isn't getting up.
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USB-C is still new and rare. Except amongst Apple fans.
[citation needed]
It's actually neither new (it's more than five years old in the wild) nor rare. I have (Dell) laptops that are aging out and due for replacement that have USB-C (and Thunderbolt) ports, and literally every tablet and phone maker other than Apple (and Microsoft Surface) uses it as the power and data interface.
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I bought an off-lease desktop PC which has a USB-C connector, and the PC has been under warranty at the previous job at least 3-5 years, so it has been around sometime.
Overall, I would say most stuff is moving there. Faster external SSDs use USB-C, and all new Android phones use it as well, because it can handle more amperage and voltage for faster charging.
Even YubiKeys are offered with USB-C like the 5C NFC model. Having a security company make devices for USB-C is notable, because they wouldn't spend t
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planning for now and the future is more important than trying to satisfy now obsolete requirements.
I think you're implying something unreasonable. That we can make any technology that endures for decades or centuries to come, especially in the realm of consumer electronics. What if a standard was set every 10 years with a 1 generation look back? That means you'll have to hunt the used market to find a charger for a 20 year old cellphone. But since 99% of the phones from that era used the same charger it sho
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Some AC sockets are over 100 years old at this point. More would be if standards had been developed earlier.
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are they standard or are they 50 Hz, 60 Hz, 240V/230V, 120V/115V, grounded, fused, polarized, or neither.
I would argue that the Edison screw has been wider spread and more enduring than the multitude of appliance sockets.
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No, wrong. The use of those were miniscule compared to the widespread use of microusb.
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Exactly this. In 5 years there will be a new connector and in 10 peeople will want it but there will be a law in place that will take 15 years to overturn and we'll be left with USB-C when there are far better alternatives out there. This is a catastrophe when the regulator dictates which technology we should use, especially when said technology is moving faster and faster.
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Because the problem is that wireless tech wastes energy, as much as 30% of the energy. Wireless charging is ultimately stupid and only for devices like watches and pacemakers where a physical connector is too large for the unit.
The standard really should be a "magnetically attached" connector based on USB-C. This way you can either have a USB-C charger (PD only) or a magnetic connector that connects to the just the power pins. Like if you only charge your device from the wall outlet, then a magnetic cable s
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if 100W isn't enough to charge your phone then IDK how the government is going to help you.
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USB-C is "good enough" for now. Of course, there will be some new standard, but right now, USB-C is beginning to have Thunderbolt as part of the default spec, so it still has a good amount of life in it.
What might replace USB-C... may be nothing. Perhaps wireless data via NFC in combination with high-wattage wireless charging might be what devices use after this.
Apple Grumbles (Score:5, Funny)
I've had those, they're delicious.
A good idea (Score:2)
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One problem with that is it's hard to tell up front what cables are good. The Apple ones certainly are not. I once bought a lightning cable wrapped in steel coil, kinda like your shower hose. It certainly never broke, yay, but it was kinda a pain in the ass because it was heavy and didn't bend much.
What's the problem we're solving? (Score:4, Insightful)
I understand the concern about proprietary wall warts with hardwired cables going to proprietary power connections, such that when you change phones out you have to throw away all the charging equipment too. That's a real issue, but it's largely been solved and has been for a few years. These days all of the power bricks provide standard USB-A or USB-C ports, into which cables get plugged. Why should it matter what the other end of the cable is, given that we're only talking about a detachable cable at this point?
I mean, I'd love it if the iPhones use USB-C as well, but I think Apple actually has a valid point: governments should stay out of the business of dictating what ports are on our phones because doing so can stifle the design and engineering options available in the future.
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I mean, I'd love it if the iPhones use USB-C as well,
Newer iPhones use USB-C. With a USB-C lightning cable. Charging at 30 Watt. Or you can use a good USB-A charger with a USB-A lightning cable. Charging at 18 Watt with a good charger.
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Newer iPhones use USB-C. With a USB-C lightning cable.
I'm fine with that for regulatory reasons, but as an iPhone end user I don't accept that as a good answer.
I just ordered a new iPhone that's set to arrive later this week, but I'd love it if I didn't have to keep one more cable at my bedside. I already have a USB-C cable that I use for my iPad Air and MacBook Air. Why do I need a separate one for my iPhone? It's an unnecessary hassle and is the reason why I've mostly stuck to Qi charging my iPhone for the last few years, since I just can't be bothered to pi
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Because you hand to get a new cable, or take two cables (I'm on Android, wife on iPhone).
It's stupid and consumer hostile. Apple only does it to make money from overpriced cables.
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MFi certified Lightning cables are readily available from Amazon Basics, Anker, and others at prices comparable to same-length USB-C cables, so I find that argument unconvincing. As I've mentioned in another response already, I too share a preference as a user that Apple should switch to using USB-C on the iPhone itself, but despite my preference I don't see any basis for the government getting to dictate the actual port that is used in the device. I'll vote with my wallet if it upsets me enough, but I reco
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It's stupid and consumer hostile. Apple only does it to make money from overpriced cables.
What would be consumer hostile is to adopt USB-C only 3 years after adopting Lightning, a time when USB-C did not have any standards on audio and video while Lightning did.
People forget that Lightning came first, and USB-C came later. It took a few more years for USB-C to adopt standards for DisplayPort, HDMI, and MHL. The analog audio standard on USB-C is still quite new with plenty of devices out there that use some vendor specific wiring.
While Android users were seeing destroyed phones and melting cabl
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It's not just about the cable. It is also about the protocol over the cable for enabling "fast charging" -- and there is really a jungle out there.
There are several proprietary protocols, rebranded for different phone manufacturers and in different versions.
This makes it difficult to pair phone and charger from different manufacturers, if you'd want anything but trickle charging.
Oppo/OnePlus even requires their own non-standard cable.
If USB-C is used in both ends of the cable, it can support "USB Power Deli
Re:What's the problem we're solving? (Score:5, Informative)
It was the EU that solved it by telling phone makers to set a standard or else. Before this happened, it was not pleasant.
When you bought a phone, there are many, many variations of connectors. Just barrel connectors could have 20+ combinations, be it diameter, length, separation (tip/ring/sleeve), and this doesn't factor in polarity and voltages. I remember going to a cellular store, and they would have racks upon racks of chargers where one would use trial and error to get something that would fit... then one would have to check if that charger had the right voltages for the specific model, otherwise, there was a good chance of frying the phone.
To boot, a lot of those chargers were not cheap. Some ran over $100... for a low voltage phone charger. You could try your luck with something with interchangeable barrels, polarities, and voltages... but that was clumsy at best, possibly dangerous at worst, if a voltage selector got bumped.
Overall, things are nice now. I go to some random bin at a drug store, and they will have a MicroUSB cable, a USB-C cable, and a Lightning cable. For chargers, they will have USB-A plugs, as well as USB-C plugs. I don't have to rummage through shelves and hope that the specific model of phone is there. Even the local universities have vending machines, so if one lost their charger, a replacement charger and cord are a card swipe or an Apple Pay transaction away.
Now, forcing everyone to USB-C... iffish. Things are working well as it is, and I see no problems finding any one of the three cables in common use. If it ain't broke...
Apple lies, stop killing the environment damn it (Score:2, Insightful)
Seriously... the BS has to stop with these companies. They are always looking to squeeze more money at any cost. That shit just isn't right.
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They are always looking to squeeze more money
What, exactly, do you think the point of running a business is?
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At this point I'm pretty sure "running a business" means a group of people that squats and creates steaming piles of MUH INNOVATION all day.
Then they innovate it to innovaters innovating innovative innovaceptors.
Politicians think they are engineers (Score:3, Insightful)
If this had actually gone through 10 years ago when proposed, we would all have micro-B connectors on everything. No fast charging, no USB 3. There are no EU phone manufacturers anymore, so this isn't to protect domestic industry. Apple has already decoupled charger sales from the phones by not shipping a charger anymore. So why is this a problem they so strongly believe needs to be legislated?
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Didn't read the legislation, but considering law makers are rarely engineers, you are probably correct.
There needs to be a path to upgrade the size/format of the port to allow for innovation of better technology.
Maybe this will just push everything towards wireless charging as the standard; seems the path that the phone makers want anyhow (removal of all ports). And with no physical port, wireless charging standards could maintain backwards compatibility.
Then there would only be a need for a data-transfer
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Now apple has shown that USB C is the standard for power to devices that donâ(TM)t accept straight AC. I still see too man
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Huh, what are you talking about, lighting IS USB, it's USB with a different connector. It never supported firewire.
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If this had actually gone through 10 years ago when proposed, we would all have micro-B connectors on everything.
We did. the threat of that legislation basically made all the phone companies settle on micro-B instead of a variety of incompatible barrel plugs. Except Apple.
No fast charging
Except we did have that with micro-B.
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Maybe maybe not, USBC was already being designed 10 years ago, and nothing happens quickly in the EU anyway. The other thing is, it's not a data transfer standard, it's a charging standard. They only have to agree on charging pins, voltage and a few other details.
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If Apple wants lightning (Score:2)
why can't it offer lightning as a standard EU connector? License it to everyone for the same price as USB C. Problem solved!
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It's Apple. They couldn't possibly license it for less than 30% of the cost of whatever is using it.
or they can auto add an $29.99 cable with each eu (Score:2)
or they can auto add an $29.99 cable with each eu Iphone as an forced add on.
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What's easier, getting Apple to change, or everyone else? Also, Apple themselves aren't even big proponents of lighting at this point in history. It's hanging around, but they've removed it from ipads. Everyone knows its dead, including Apple.
Round port? (Score:2)
Please make it USB-O
I'm not sure Apple's wrong (Score:3, Insightful)
I'm not entirely sure Apple's wrong. TFS says that EU regulators have been trying to get this done for a decade. Had they been successful in 2011, we would likely all be forced to use micro-USB right now despite the fact that USB-C is better in every way. How frequently would they revisit the topic of charging connectors? Once a decade? Then we'd still have 3 years to wait until USB-C might become the new standard.
That would suck.
How much of a problem is this, anyway? So far as I know, the smartphone industry has, with one notable exception, standardized on USB-C. Before that, they standardized on micro-USB. Speaking as an iPhone user, I would have been pissed to be forced back to micro-USB because of some busy-body regulator. Micro-USB is a terrible connector. Lightning, though it's proprietary, is a very nice connector. In terms of pure mechanics, it's even smoother to insert than USB-C. So yes, I would have been irked.
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It’s time these big companies stopped throwing up barriers to entry in these markets and just competed on the merits of their products.
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To be fair USB is basically free. You have to pay to use the logo, or for an official ID number, but neither are required for anything to work. Anyone can make the plugs and sockets too, as long as they don't put the logo on them.
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Had they been successful in 2011, we would likely all be forced to use micro-USB right now despite the fact that USB-C is better in every way.
Yes because that's the way laws work. You create a law, then dissolve parliament, shutdown the government and the laws will *NEVER* change and we'll be stuck with one rule *FOREVER*. /sarcasm.
While you're quoting Apple it's worth quoting both their reasons for not wanting the rule. The first one is it will create a mountain of electronic waste, the second reason they give is that everyone is standardising anyway. I.e. a) it will be horrible, b) we're doing horrible thing anyway voluntarily so don't force us
Something less fragile? (Score:5, Interesting)
"magsafe" was a good idea for cord tension
USB-C for fast charging and it's USB-A compatibility is above the average consumer's head -- I had to go through several relatives houses and confiscate anything that wouldn't charge their devices at full speed
There should DEFINITELY be two standards (wireless and wired) maybe a third for contact-based . . . we would get better choices if it wasn't mandated but incentivized. R&D should NOT stagnate . . .
Maybe it's just time to (for a lot of reasons) go with a non-data charger.
Seriously (Score:2)
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Are people really too stupid to understand the difference between a "charger" and a "cable"?
Do you understand the difference between a charger and a power supply? A charger is a device that interacts with a battery and regulates voltage and current so that the battery is charged at the appropriate rate and not overcharged. The wall warts that feed your phone are power supplies. The current and voltage regulation is in the phone.
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Unfortunately, with USB-C PD, this has led to situations where two seemingly functionally identical chargers/power packs won't charge or power the device the other shipped with (because they have different supported voltage levels), or will work but only at a very slow low-power compatibility mode.
I got your harmonized port ... (Score:3)
Grumble away... (Score:2)
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It will be beautiful and last forever :-P
-- an Italian
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Nah, will be pre-rusted & fall apart a week after purchase....
I drove Alfa Romeos in the 70's & 80's
I know of what I speak.